• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Linux/Ubuntu, school me please

Technically, Linux is just the kernel, which is really a pretty small component of a usable system. It takes a lot of additional software just to get a system that can boot, let alone one with a nice GUI and useful tools.

A distribution is a collection of various free open-source software set up to be a usable system. For example SuSE and Ubuntu are both based on the Linux kernel, but use entirely different graphical environments, different package managers, and have very different default setups and installed software. They're both Linux distributions, and both are based on the same underlying software (usually you can count on the Linux kernel, GNU userland and X.org X server), but are quite different operating systems.

You can't really draw parallels to commercial operating systems since distributions all bundle similar software, they just do it in different ways, driven by different goals and cater to different uses. Furthermore they all build off each other's work, with the good bits developed by one distribution being used where they fit in the philosophy of other distributions.

You need to just try them out (or at least read their 'mission statement') and see what fits for your usage. For a desktop I'd suggest you try Mint (or Ubuntu, they're very similar) and Fedora for a start, they're both large and have a good community behind them. For servers look at Debian (my personal pick..) or CentOS, or perhaps SLES.
 
NathanP2007 said:
Thank you that makes sense. So is linux the overall company and ubuntu and mint (etc) are versions? Kinda like...microsoft is the company and XP-Vista-7 are their versions of their OS....except in this case for Linux, Ubuntu and Mint (for example) arent like xp-vista-7 in the sense that they arent the same thing but updated.
Click to expand...

Think of Linux as Pie and the distros are different flavors...
 
Both of those are very good explainations, thank you. I've heard a lot about the "Linux Kernal" and "Kernals" so the more i hear (that i understand) the better thank you both.
 
For a short (REALLY SHORT) intro to linux, here is a bit of info.

Linux is actually a kernel, not an OS. The Kernel is the base part of the operating system that handles hardware/software interaction. Ontop of the kernel, you install components to handle user interaction, like a shell (terminal or command line, ect.) or GUI (Gnome, KDE, the Windows UI, the OS X UI, ect.)

Current stable version of the linux kernel is 2.33.3.

Ubuntu, Fedora, Gentoo, are distributions(Distros) of the Linux kernel, with various software packages depending on the Distro. Each uses their own package managers, to handle installation and upgrades of software, including the OS software. Ubuntu uses Aptitude, Fedora uses YUM, Gentoo uses Portage. Each of those managers use their own methods to upgrade, some have both command line and GUI interfaces, some are command line only.

The versions for each distro are different, though most use the most current Linux kernel. To figure out which one is 'best' you really need to play with it, as each offer its own advantages and disadvantages.

Personally, I only use Backtrack 4 for a linux OS, but I do rather enjoy what people are doing with the kernel and other distros. Backtrack 4 is actually based on Ubuntu
 
Yes - as all have explained. The Linux kernel is just the engine that makes everything run. A distribution is a software collection set based on user preferences. Some distributions have everything & the kitchen sink and others are very minimal. A distribution will be labeled 'Desktop' or 'Server' based on it's pre-packaged software or support availability.

I personally recommend you try to truly learn Linux. While Ubuntu and Fedora are recommended for beginers, I find them to water down and numb the learning experience for Linux. How will you ever learn to ride a bike if you ride around with training wheels for ever. I personally think Debian & Arch Linux are perfect distributions however that is a personal preference. Debian is very strict on the OSS and Arch is a bleeding edge rolling release distribution. Both good and bad in specific eyes. Ubuntu is Linux under the hood but lessens the learning experience and in my opionion is not the direction I want to see Linux go. Not because it's popular, but just not as free as I would like it to be. Either way you go, you will have fun.

I always see people say "I installed Linux, now what?!?!", like they expect the OS to cook them eggs and randomly start streaming pirated movies from Russia or something. Linux is just an OS to interact with your hardware. Start small and try and install nVidia or ATI drivers. Then move to something more fun and complex like getting your Linux machine to be a share for LAN. You can use SMB (Samba) for Windows machines to connect to your Linux share or NFS for Linux to Linux connections. Get creative and learn.
 
Thank you guys, not only did those explanations make complete sense, but they truly did enlighten me more about linux. Haha Carlosinfl, yeah i can imagine that quite a bit of people expect linux to be some all powerful secret that fries them a egg or fixes all their driver programs. I am interested in it cause its just information, and something to learn. Wanting to hear what all the super nerd fuss is about. Wanting to experiment and try new things.
 
You're welcome. Just always remember whatever issue you run into in Linux...chances are it has been asked dozens of times over on some forum. I will say Ubuntu has a really great community forum. Their Wiki is OK but needs cleanup and structure.
 
Carlosinfl said:
You're welcome. Just always remember whatever issue you run into in Linux...chances are it has been asked dozens of times over on some forum. I will say Ubuntu has a really great community forum. Their Wiki is OK but needs cleanup and structure.
Click to expand...

Yeah, now i will go back and look for ones in previous posts on this thread, but if you know any off the top of your head or in your favorites... Can any of you tell me some forums that are for linux? Whether they be all linux based distro's or specific ones like Ubuntu and Mint. Thanks :)

Yeah the Ubuntu wiki looks like it will be a handful to use, definitely needs cleanup and structure, but if the info i need (when i need it) is in there, im sure il sort through and find it.
 
nathonp2007, I am willing to help you out or answer questions if you need it, PM me here and I could arrange a time to meet you on IRC and help you out if you need it. (if you choose ubuntu or mint (which i would recommended) since I am not very familiar with other distros)

The key is just not to get frustrated, some things may seem hard at first but it is only because it is not exactly what you are used to, once you learn it you will find it as least as easy if not easier than windows for most things.
 
Well, one can do this in bsd ...
(This way, of course some Linux distros have equivalents. I am clueless mostly)
but details illustrate

cd /usr/ports/net
[some command] | grep ping | tee -a net_ping.file
...
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 512 Sep 7 2007 wping
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 512 Aug 21 2009 wmping
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 512 Apr 8 2009 tcping
drwxr-xr-x 3 root 512 Sep 23 2009 ssmping
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 512 Jul 12 2009 mping
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 512 Oct 8 2007 liboping
drwxr-xr-x 4 root 512 Aug 4 2009 httping
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 512 Mar 3 2007 http_ping
drwxr-xr-x 3 root 512 May 11 2006 hping-devel
drwxr-xr-x 3 root 512 Nov 18 2005 hping
drwxr-xr-x 3 root 512 Jul 31 2009 gkrellmmultiping2
drwxr-xr-x 3 root 512 Sep 28 2007 fping+ipv6
drwxr-xr-x 3 root 512 Sep 10 2007 fping
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 512 Nov 10 2005 dhcping
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 512 May 22 2009 bwping
drwxr-xr-x 3 root 1024 Oct 10 2009 echoping
drwxr-xr-x 3 root 1024 Oct 10 2009 arping
drwxr-xr-x 4 root 1024 Jul 16 2008 apinger


some command : some variation of "ls -lac"
So I want to use some ping program to improve/troubleshoot stuff.
Rather than finding it somewhere on gnomefiles.org or sourceeforge, I can
just change to where Makefiles are present indication programs ready to
install
(/usr/ports)
change to the "net" (network, internet etc) category, vs math, biology, www, x11,
"cd net"
and look for stuff.
...
Not suited to the purpose? delete it with a
pkg_delete -f /var/db/pkg/bwping-[some version number]...
and no worries.

More stuff to learn vs a GUI distro (pcbsd, most linux...)
 
jb_hafo said:
Well, one can do this in bsd ...
(This way, of course some Linux distros have equivalents. I am clueless mostly)
but details illustrate

cd /usr/ports/net
[some command] | grep ping | tee -a net_ping.file
...
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 512 Sep 7 2007 wping
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 512 Aug 21 2009 wmping
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 512 Apr 8 2009 tcping
drwxr-xr-x 3 root 512 Sep 23 2009 ssmping
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 512 Jul 12 2009 mping
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 512 Oct 8 2007 liboping
drwxr-xr-x 4 root 512 Aug 4 2009 httping
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 512 Mar 3 2007 http_ping
drwxr-xr-x 3 root 512 May 11 2006 hping-devel
drwxr-xr-x 3 root 512 Nov 18 2005 hping
drwxr-xr-x 3 root 512 Jul 31 2009 gkrellmmultiping2
drwxr-xr-x 3 root 512 Sep 28 2007 fping+ipv6
drwxr-xr-x 3 root 512 Sep 10 2007 fping
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 512 Nov 10 2005 dhcping
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 512 May 22 2009 bwping
drwxr-xr-x 3 root 1024 Oct 10 2009 echoping
drwxr-xr-x 3 root 1024 Oct 10 2009 arping
drwxr-xr-x 4 root 1024 Jul 16 2008 apinger


some command : some variation of "ls -lac"
So I want to use some ping program to improve/troubleshoot stuff.
Rather than finding it somewhere on gnomefiles.org or sourceeforge, I can
just change to where Makefiles are present indication programs ready to
install
(/usr/ports)
change to the "net" (network, internet etc) category, vs math, biology, www, x11,
"cd net"
and look for stuff.
...
Not suited to the purpose? delete it with a
pkg_delete -f /var/db/pkg/bwping-[some version number]...
and no worries.

More stuff to learn vs a GUI distro (pcbsd, most linux...)
Click to expand...

Lol that went so far over my head it might have well been Japanese. I dont do command lines or coding or any of that.
 
lol Nathan... you might want to start getting comfortable on a command line. Any *nix based OS will have you in the command line to fix issues with drivers or software.
 
It's funny, I had (not bootable right now since the win7 / SSD install) Ubuntu installed on my desktop.

I was griping to myself about how many things I had to do at a command line. My job is VAX/VMS and OpenVMS support (an older OS like Linux) so I work daily at a $ prompt. But still. It makes me grumpy when something simple, I have to go to the command line.

Then I noticed how often I had to resort to the command line in windows 7. Control Userpasswords2 (for removing password from win7 login)...not found in control panel as far as I can tell.

extracting .msi / exe packages to get files to install old XP drivers from a command prompt

etc

Somehow I always end up using it for something. Maybe not as often as I need it for Ubuntu, but it sees plenty of use.
 
bbordwell said:
nathonp2007, I am willing to help you out or answer questions if you need it, PM me here and I could arrange a time to meet you on IRC and help you out if you need it. (if you choose ubuntu or mint (which i would recommended) since I am not very familiar with other distros)

The key is just not to get frustrated, some things may seem hard at first but it is only because it is not exactly what you are used to, once you learn it you will find it as least as easy if not easier than windows for most things.
Click to expand...

Thank you thats really nice of you. Once i start using it, im sure questions will arise so i'll probably end up sending you a PM then.

I am curious about 2 things. Once i DL ubuntu 10.04, where do i go to look for WUBI? Second, is there a article or something on how to make the Live-CD or Live-USB?

Btw i came across these, pretty cool. http://lifehacker.com/5527259/the-best-improvements-in-ubuntu-1004-lucid-lynx
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/04/10-things-to-do-after-installing-ubuntu.html
 
mgulbran said:
Control Panel\User Accounts\User Accounts
"Manage User Accounts" Seems to bring up the same menu your "Control Userpasswords2" does.

I just used it today and DANGEROUSLY typed "Control Userpasswords2" in a command line without knowing what it did when I read your post lol.
Click to expand...

It's a little different.

See here:
"How to Add Advanced User Accounts to the Windows 7 Control Panel"
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/613-control-panel-add-advanced-user-accounts.html

adds it to the control panel
 
jrdonnaruma said:
lol Nathan... you might want to start getting comfortable on a command line. Any *nix based OS will have you in the command line to fix issues with drivers or software.
Click to expand...

Probably true, but considering im not in that world yet, telling me a long list of command lines and not explaining what they are or do etc, doesnt really help me that much. Only once have i done a command line on windows so i know nothing about it. I dont think with anything that tech jargin strong you just dive right in.
 
mgulbran said:
Nathan, I Highly suggest you get a second box to install this on cause I assure you I've royal f'd my machines installs playing around with Linux fdisk utilities.

Also ->
http://www.virtualbox.org/
http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/3.1.6/UserManual.pdf

Free, Effective, and Works great with Ubuntu.
Click to expand...

Yeah thats what i want...but im not willing to put down 600 bucks to build a new PC just to play around with Linux on, so idk how im gonna come across one but who knows. For now you guys are saying that WUBI and Virtual Box are my best options to safely use Ubuntu?
 
Using the installer to resize your NTFS partition is safe. Though as ever, do backups before any major change like this.

WuBI or VirtualBox is more safe, but less good.
 
Installed Virtual Box, burned Ubuntu 10.04 onto a CD, setup virtual box and was in the installing the OS area and it has said this:

"This kernel requires an x86-64 CPU, but only detected an i686 CPU.
Unable to boot- please use a kernel appropriate for your CPU."

I have windows 7 64bit on this PC, i downloaded the 64 bit Ubuntu.


EDIT: Haha man im a idiot, i just remembered, i checked this CPU (e5200) and it doesnt have virtualization supported.
 
Yeah, a 64-bit host CPU doesn't automagically mean you have a 64-bit guest.

Easiest thing to do is just download an x86 CD. Otherwise you'll need a new CPU with the virtualization extensions.
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
Yeah, a 64-bit host CPU doesn't automagically mean you have a 64-bit guest.

Easiest thing to do is just download an x86 CD. Otherwise you'll need a new CPU with the virtualization extensions.
Click to expand...

Doesnt matter 64 or 32, i dont have virtualization so i cant use virtualbox on my comp. Im looking into buying a Q9550 though.
 
You can use VirtualBox without the virtualization extensions on your CPU. You just can't do a 64-bit guest until you upgrade.

People used things like VMWare and Virtualbox long before the advent of virtualization extensions. I used to use XP in VMWare on a Pentium M.
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
You can use VirtualBox without the virtualization extensions on your CPU. You just can't do a 64-bit guest until you upgrade.

People used things like VMWare and Virtualbox long before the advent of virtualization extensions. I used to use XP in VMWare on a Pentium M.
Click to expand...

Ok so what i need to download is Ubuntu 32 bit to make it work? And by "you cant do a 64-bit guest until you upgrade" do you mean until i upgrade to something like the Q9550? Or what?

Thanks btw
 
MuZI said:
Why not just buy a cheap HDD you can install Linux on?
Click to expand...

Not familiar enough with dual booting and installing a OS on a hard-drive when you already have a main OS in use to be comfortable with that option.
 
NathanP2007 said:
Not familiar enough with dual booting and installing a OS on a hard-drive when you already have a main OS in use to be comfortable with that option.
Click to expand...

Again this is safe. Make the new disk a secondary drive (Windows does not like being moved around) and just install Ubuntu to the other disk. It will set up the bootloader properly. Worst case you can boot your Vista/7 install disk and run startup repair and wipe out the bootloader changes.

If you want to run in Virtualbox you need either the 32-bit Ubuntu or a CPU with support for V-T. Just get the 32-bit version, for playing around there's no advantage to 64-bit.
 
keenan said:
Again this is safe. Make the new disk a secondary drive (Windows does not like being moved around) and just install Ubuntu to the other disk. It will set up the bootloader properly. Worst case you can boot your Vista/7 install disk and run startup repair and wipe out the bootloader changes.

If you want to run in Virtualbox you need either the 32-bit Ubuntu or a CPU with support for V-T. Just get the 32-bit version, for playing around there's no advantage to 64-bit.
Click to expand...

Understood everything but the boot loader part. What is the boot loader? (i like getting specific info so im not messing around with stuff with only 75% of the info) :) thanks


(First off, i bought the Q9550, second: i downloaded and burned the 32 bit of ubuntu and got the virtual box up and running and was using ubuntu :) )
 
Last edited:
NathanP2007 said:
Understood everything but the boot loader part. What is the boot loader? (i like getting specific info so im not messing around with stuff with only 75% of the info) :) thanks
Click to expand...

Windows uses NTLDR, Linux typically uses GRUB. Basically it's a very small bit of code that resides in the MBR, outside of any OS or filesystem. Since the MBR is so small and the BIOS too primitive to understand a filesystem, you can't boot directly into an OS. It's the first user code the BIOS loads to boot up the system. The bootloader basically accesses the filesystem and loads the kernel, then starts the OS boot process.

When you install Ubuntu, the NTLDR bootloader will be replaced with GRUB, which is much more flexible. It should automatically detect your Windows install and provide you with a menu at bootup to choose Windows or Ubuntu. If this fails for any reason though, the Windows installation itself hasn't been touched (assuming you're installing to a second hard drive), so all that needs to be done is the bootloader replaced with the original Windows bootloader, which the Startup Repair process does.
 
Yep good info. And I have NEVER had boot loader install failure, unless I myself did something wrong. These days with the automation, it always works.
 
Last edited:
So basically i install a second (in my case third) hard drive, i put the CD in, i install ubuntu to the drive, and when i restart the computer, GRUB will have taken over so i will get to a boot menu that gives me the option of Win7 or Ubuntu? And if i have any problems, i put in the Win7 install DVD and run startup repair which will eliminate the GRUB so it goes back to how it was before ubuntu?

Btw whats your opinion(s) on this http://lifehacker.com/5528459/irebo...boot-manager-restart-straight-into-another-os

Not saying should i try it persay, but more if you have tried it or heard of it. :)
 
That iReboot thing looks pretty cool. I used to have a script I wrote for a Linux system of mine issue the commands that automatically selected Windows upon next reboot, so I would just type 'windows' into the terminal and it would reboot and drop me straight into Windows. It's cool to see that someone out there actually made an app for Windows that handles this. Would be nice if it worked in Linux too.
 
Yep, that's it.

Haven't heard of the iReboot thing, doesn't sound feasible to me, but...maybe...there was loadlin back in the day after all...
 
NathanP2007 said:
So basically i install a second (in my case third) hard drive, i put the CD in, i install ubuntu to the drive, and when i restart the computer, GRUB will have taken over so i will get to a boot menu that gives me the option of Win7 or Ubuntu? And if i have any problems, i put in the Win7 install DVD and run startup repair which will eliminate the GRUB so it goes back to how it was before ubuntu?

Btw whats your opinion(s) on this http://lifehacker.com/5528459/irebo...boot-manager-restart-straight-into-another-os

Not saying should i try it persay, but more if you have tried it or heard of it. :)
Click to expand...

Just make sure you burn the .iso at ~6x and check the integrity of the disk before install (it will give you that option before you install).

Maybe you should get someone's number so you can txt them if something goes wrong (very unlikely).
 
MuZI said:
Just make sure you burn the .iso at ~6x and check the integrity of the disk before install (it will give you that option before you install).

Maybe you should get someone's number so you can txt them if something goes wrong (very unlikely).
Click to expand...

Well, i burned it at "MAX" setting on IMGburn, idk what _x that was but i can bet it wasnt 6x. So theres a check integrity of the disk option before you start the installing process on Ubuntu?

I think what i will do is order another 640 gig hard drive like i have now, and use that as my secondary, and use the 80 gig i have in my PC right now (which is my secondary right now) and use that to install ubuntu onto.
 
Ok so i have ubuntu in virtual-box BUT, it asks me once i boot it up, if i want to use the live CD or install it, if i choose install , it installs it INSIDE virtual box right? And IF i want to eventually remove it, when i uninstall virtual-box it will uninstall ubuntu as well?
 
NathanP2007 said:
Ok so i have ubuntu in virtual-box BUT, it asks me once i boot it up, if i want to use the live CD or install it, if i choose install , it installs it INSIDE virtual box right? And IF i want to eventually remove it, when i uninstall virtual-box it will uninstall ubuntu as well?
Click to expand...

mgulbran said:
At a certain point you really just need to dig in and figure it out.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're asking too much stuff now. This is like hand-holding, but I will say that I think when you uninstall VirtualBox it gives you the option of removing the VHDs too, not so sure. You will find out where the VHD files are kept and all that. For now, Google and the Ubuntu forums are your friends.
 
Id be asking on forums somewhere, dont have something helpful to say, then dont say anything. Wow crazy thing...i dont want to risk my whole computer and everything i have on it to mess around with a operating system in a virtual box without knowing exactly what im doing. Im not asking to much, it was one simple sentence, if you cant handle a question like that, you shouldnt be answering on my thread anyways.

No one is making you sign onto hard forum, click on my thread, read everything and MAKE you post something non helpful. You could have saved all that energy and just answered the question.

So sorry to ask a Operating System question on a operating system section of a computer FORUM that was made to help get people answers and share information...my bad.
 
Last edited:
Nathan, when you install the OS inside of VirtualBox, it creates a virtual hard drive as a file wherever you want. The OS is basically a file on your normal operating system until you launch Virtual Box and open it. It wont over write anything on your hard drive, or change any other file, unless you name it the same as another file in the same folder that your saving the virtual machines in (I believe typically its C:\Users\<User>\Virtual Machines, or C:\Users\<User>\Documents\Virtual Machines)

As for deleting, I think Virtual box will delete all associated files, or at least ask you if you want to, but I'm not positive. I dont personally use VB, I use Parallels on OS X, so things are a bit different over here :)
 
jrdonnaruma said:
Nathan, when you install the OS inside of VirtualBox, it creates a virtual hard drive as a file wherever you want. The OS is basically a file on your normal operating system until you launch Virtual Box and open it. It wont over write anything on your hard drive, or change any other file, unless you name it the same as another file in the same folder that your saving the virtual machines in (I believe typically its C:\Users\<User>\Virtual Machines, or C:\Users\<User>\Documents\Virtual Machines)

As for deleting, I think Virtual box will delete all associated files, or at least ask you if you want to, but I'm not positive. I dont personally use VB, I use Parallels on OS X, so things are a bit different over here :)
Click to expand...

Thank you very much, that was exactly what i needed to know. Mgulgran, go somewhere else. If your not commenting on this thread to answer a question, then you shouldnt be commenting on the thread at all.

Thanks again Jrdonnaruma
 
mgulbran said:
No, I'm serious. The number one way for you to learn Linux or more about computing in general (which you obviously want to learn) is digging in and just starting to mess with it and figure it out. Keep good back-ups and go to town and start messing with stuff. Stop being a 12-year old about it.
Click to expand...

The 12 year old is the Dbags saying "your asking to many questions on a FORUM". i dont have anything backed up for lack of backup internal/external hard drives, hence im being SUPER cautious and double checking big moves that i make on this thread. Im not discussing fooling around with stuff inside ubuntu, i am discussing the INSTALLING of ubuntu, totally different. Duh you can do w/e once you are playing with the OS, but making sure you are installing something correct you dont want to "mess around and figure it out".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top