Linux Sucks! Video from LinuxFest NW

[Zellio2009]

System->Administration->Restricted Driver Manager. Click "Apply", wait, reboot. Done!

Yup, so much easier on Windows

That depends on if your trying to install an X1000 series ati card on Linux or not.

 

[Zellio2009]

And yes, I am more then aware that Nvidia cards work out of the box on Linux, that is why I worded my response alot differently.

Linux boys make the OS for themselves. Run on hardware they don't use, and get ready for the months of frustration.

 

[kllrnohj]

And yes, I am more then aware that Nvidia cards work out of the box on Linux, that is why I worded my response alot differently.

No they don't. AFAIK there aren't any good open source nvidia drivers, and no distro ships with the closed source ones. Only ATI has solid open source drivers, as ATI has published the technical documentation and I believe is helping with the open source driver.

Linux boys make the OS for themselves. Run on hardware they don't use, and get ready for the months of frustration.

Well of course they do, which is why Linux can never "lose" and will never go anywhere. Its pretty hard to debug drivers on a system you don't have

That depends on if your trying to install an X1000 series ati card on Linux or not.

Both ATI and Nvidia's official binary drivers are installed through that process. So if you have an ATI or Nvidia card, that process will usually work.

 

[Bankie]

I love how most Linux fanboys give arguments like 'Well you have to install drivers on Windows' without mentioning the difference in installing drivers on Windows versus Linux..,.

As an ArchLinux user.....

Nvidia drivers.

Windows - Go to nvidia.com, go through 6 or 7 pages, download driver, install, next/next/next/next/finish, reboot
Linux - Go to terminal, type pacman -Syu nvidia, reboot

Soundblaster X-Fi

Windows - Go to soundblaster.com, go through 6 or 7 pages, download driver, install, next/next/next/next/finish, reboot
Linux - Go to terminal, type yaourt -Syu ctxfi, reboot

 

[djBon2112]

As an ArchLinux user.....

Nvidia drivers.

Windows - Go to nvidia.com, go through 6 or 7 pages, download driver, install, next/next/next/next/finish, reboot
Linux - Go to terminal, type pacman -Syu nvidia, reboot

Soundblaster X-Fi

Windows - Go to soundblaster.com, go through 6 or 7 pages, download driver, install, next/next/next/next/finish, reboot
Linux - Go to terminal, type yaourt -Syu ctxfi, reboot

Unfortunately, however, since the Linux way requires typing, most people are afraid of it and think it's completely "difficult" and "not for anyone except hardcore Linux geeks". I've never understood that, but whatever.

 

[eeyrjmr]

Unfortunately, however, since the Linux way requires typing, most people are afraid of it and think it's completely "difficult" and "not for anyone except hardcore Linux geeks". I've never understood that, but whatever.

Well that was for Archlinux, just start the GUI package manager for Ubuntu, SuSe,Fedora and just search and love it

all the linux-hating MS-funboi's seem to think linux hasn't advanced in the last 5years

 

[djBon2112]

Well that was for Archlinux, just start the GUI package manager for Ubuntu, SuSe,Fedora and just search and love it

all the linux-hating MS-funboi's seem to think linux hasn't advanced in the last 5years

I agree completely. Sometimes the ignorance is just sad

 

[Zellio2009]

Unfortunately, however, since the Linux way requires typing, most people are afraid of it and think it's completely "difficult" and "not for anyone except hardcore Linux geeks". I've never understood that, but whatever.

No, my point was that the 'comparisons' made are not valid, and are not real comparisons.

There alot of difference between an OS finding something for you, and you finding something for your OS.

Making up lies does not help your case.

 

[AVT]

The biggest problem with Linux is that anything you do is lost upon reboot.

Example from my experience Ubuntu, create an AP:

ifconfig ath0 down
wlanconfig ath0 destroy
wlanconfig ath0 create wlandev wifi0 wlanmode ap
ifconfig ath0 up
brctl addif br0 ath0
iwconfig ath0 mode master
iwconfig ath0 ssid avtnetwork
hostapd /etc/hostapd.conf

Reboot? Oh no, you've got to re-do all of your wireless configuration!

Want it working on startup? Deal with Ubuntu's own method of doing so, which consists of editing text files that are in no way consistent with the commands you type, and tend to sometimes work, sometimes not. Now, it'll work on every 3rd reboot, and the system will randomly lock up and drop you off the internet while you're doing something important.

 

[eeyrjmr]

The biggest problem with Linux is that anything you do is lost upon reboot.

Example from my experience Ubuntu, create an AP:

ifconfig ath0 down
wlanconfig ath0 destroy
wlanconfig ath0 create wlandev wifi0 wlanmode ap
ifconfig ath0 up
brctl addif br0 ath0
iwconfig ath0 mode master
iwconfig ath0 ssid avtnetwork
hostapd /etc/hostapd.conf

Reboot? Oh no, you've got to re-do all of your wireless configuration!

Want it working on startup? Deal with Ubuntu's own method of doing so, which consists of editing text files that are in no way consistent with the commands you type, and tend to sometimes work, sometimes not. Now, it'll work on every 3rd reboot, and the system will randomly lock up and drop you off the internet while you're doing something important.

ummm well... if you type everything at the command line expect to lose it all... do the same in windows and you will lose it all

Either
1) commit all that to a BASH script and save it
2) use that nice GUI application call NETWORKMANAGER that does actually work really well

again with the FUD and the ignorance

 

[AVT]

ummm well... if you type everything at the command line expect to lose it all... do the same in windows and you will lose it all

Either
1) commit all that to a BASH script and save it
2) use that nice GUI application call NETWORKMANAGER that does actually work really well

again with the FUD and the ignorance

Yes - that's why I don't do things via command line on Windows. Linux does not leave me with any other choice.

1) That's what I did. Still requires I have a keyboard&monitor connected to the system, which was otherwise unnecessary, and requires my attention in the case of a reboot. Note that I can't connect via SSH/VNC without this running.

2) NETWORKMANAGER does not do access points, except via Ad-Hoc mode, which both inherently sucks and does not support WPA or WPA2 in Linux. It also requires that I have a desktop environment installed, which was completely unnecessary for the system in question.

There is absolutely no FUD or ignorance in my post.

 

[eeyrjmr]

The biggest problem with Linux is that anything you do is lost upon reboot.

FUD & Ignorance and also lying it seems...
Take it elsewhere

 

[AVT]

FUD & Ignorance and also lying it seems...
Take it elsewhere

You've begun to attack me, not my arguments.

Everything I have said has been true about Ubuntu as of last November, which is when I was working on and encountered the problems with the system in question. Whether Linux has advanced or not since then I cannot say.

I have no reason to lie about anything whatsoever. I support Linux - in fact, I'll probably be using it again once I finish my current crazy projects and start working on a new HTPC - which won't contain any wireless.

 

[eeyrjmr]

You've begun to attack me, not my arguments.

Everything I have said has been true about Ubuntu as of last November, which is when I was working on and encountered the problems with the system in question. Whether Linux has advanced or not since then I cannot say.

I have no reason to lie about anything whatsoever. I support Linux - in fact, I'll probably be using it again once I finish my current crazy projects and start working on a new HTPC - which won't contain any wireless.

w.r.t.

The biggest problem with Linux is that anything you do is lost upon reboot.

How can you still defend that statement, no part of that is true in any shape or form!
FUD
take it elsewhere

 

[AVT]

w.r.t.



How can you still defend that statement, no part of that is true in any shape or form!
FUD
take it elsewhere

I have just given a complete and relevant example as to how my statement is entirely true. With that in mind, how can you say it isn't?

 

[djBon2112]

The biggest problem with Linux is that anything you do is lost upon reboot.

Example from my experience Ubuntu, create an AP:

ifconfig ath0 down
wlanconfig ath0 destroy
wlanconfig ath0 create wlandev wifi0 wlanmode ap
ifconfig ath0 up
brctl addif br0 ath0
iwconfig ath0 mode master
iwconfig ath0 ssid avtnetwork
hostapd /etc/hostapd.conf

Reboot? Oh no, you've got to re-do all of your wireless configuration!

Want it working on startup? Deal with Ubuntu's own method of doing so, which consists of editing text files that are in no way consistent with the commands you type, and tend to sometimes work, sometimes not. Now, it'll work on every 3rd reboot, and the system will randomly lock up and drop you off the internet while you're doing something important.

1. You're obviously not using NetworkManager correctly, or you're using 6.06
2. It's called shell scripting. If you REALLY care that much, put "#!/bin/bash" at the top of that block, dump it in a text file, call it "wireless.sh", chmod it +x and add it at startup. Really, you're trying to argue a null point because you've done something wrong somewhere (if you have to type that EVERY time you reboot, then a config file somewhere is wrong and you should fix that, not bitch. It's user error, not system error).

 

[djBon2112]

Yes - that's why I don't do things via command line on Windows. Linux does not leave me with any other choice.

1) That's what I did. Still requires I have a keyboard&monitor connected to the system, which was otherwise unnecessary, and requires my attention in the case of a reboot. Note that I can't connect via SSH/VNC without this running.

2) NETWORKMANAGER does not do access points, except via Ad-Hoc mode, which both inherently sucks and does not support WPA or WPA2 in Linux. It also requires that I have a desktop environment installed, which was completely unnecessary for the system in question.

There is absolutely no FUD or ignorance in my post.

Wow, so basically, you're trying to run a Linux server, with no GUI, and with no knowledge of shell scripting or config files, and you're bitching that it's hard and that you have "no other choice"? You sir are an idiot. I agree with eeyrjmr, take your FUD elsewhere.

 

[djBon2112]

No, my point was that the 'comparisons' made are not valid, and are not real comparisons.

There alot of difference between an OS finding something for you, and you finding something for your OS.

Making up lies does not help your case.

Eh? I don't really understand you. I made up no lies in my post. It is a completely valid comparison: installing a driver in both OSes. And your second paragraph is exactly why (IMO) Linux is better: it (well, aptitude or pacman or yum) finds stuff for you. That is definitely a plus for usability compared to Windows. I'm sure you think Steam is better than buying each game one at a time, am I correct?

 

[kac77]

hmm The problem with the video is that the speaker in order to bring linux into areas of photo editing and sound editing (although he did mention Ardour because there's no way you can't) you have to bring linux into a pay model. Once you do that there's no reason to switch. Apple has been with 10% of the total user base for years. Some years are bigger than others but overall it stays the same. This is with an OS that pretty much comes with everything out of the box and overall is the most user friendly.

This is the point he glosses over. Anyone can pick out flaws, but it takes someone who knows what they are doing to actually make it work in the marketplace. The problem isn't the lack of software. It isn't even a lack of good software. The problem is with good software for everyone and everything out there. Only Windows offers that and it's taken decades and billions upon billions of dollars to get it there. Simply moving to pay model isn't necessarily going to give you that.

Some of the other problems I really feel he just was a moron with. Like dual monitor support. Overall it's works and works pretty well. It depends on the hardware, which is the same for Windows. I've got more than a few Dell Laptops with Nvidia graphic cards that just blow up when trying to do dual monitor support. ATI can be hit or miss as well. Most of the time it works. But it definitely isn't something that's without it's share of issues.

 

[pxc]

Apple has been with 10% of the total user base for years. Some years are bigger than others but overall it stays the same. This is with an OS that pretty much comes with everything out of the box and overall is the most user friendly.

World-wide, Apple has about 1/2 of that (~5%). Apple hasn't seen a 10% market share since the early 1990s (an all time high). Apple has a slightly higher share % in the US, but still not close to 10%.

There are certain segments that Apple has done very well. For example, in the US, Apple has about 15% market share of laptop *retail* sales, and a much, much smaller share for overall laptop sales. Realize that corporate sales outrank retail sales by around 4:1 an Apple does much less business in corporate environments than it does in retail.

 

[bigstusexy]

That is a problem with web servers in general. Apache really isn't made to be run by the average user, as the average user tends to not be setting up a 'proper' web server. That said, if you install apache, PHP, and mysql through apt-get, they all work just fine. You don't need to configure anything unless you want the extra features.

I believe it to be more a project problem then with the kind of software in general. I also wouldn't would myself an average user at all and I would have to also ask why is Apache not for "average" users? The project is more than mature and used enough that its just about a standard. Why has there been a shift for progress in ease of use or ease of education. I'd like to leave that as a statement rather than a debate as I'm leaving the thread.


The one thing everyone needs to increase is recognizing constructive criticism versus an attack and taking either regardless and using the information for improvement.

 

[JayteeBates]

And if it's not in the repository, chances are I have to compile it myself anyway, so 64 bit is irrelevant.

Thats why Linux will not become mainstream. Just mention "compile" to a standard office user and you have lost them. Tell them their PC will not work unless they compile modules to load into the OS...oh boy two words come to mind..."You Fired!"

 

[djBon2112]

Thats why Linux will not become mainstream. Just mention "compile" to a standard office user and you have lost them. Tell them their PC will not work unless they compile modules to load into the OS...oh boy two words come to mind..."You Fired!"

The only time you ever need to compile while using modern, package-managed distros (Ubuntu in particular) is if the program is (a) in pre-pre-alpha, in which case you wouldn't WANT to be using it at an office, or even at home probably, (b) it's some really small, obscure program that hasn't found its way into the mainline yet, in which case, it's probably either (a) or you don't really need it, or (c) it's a newer version of the one in the repos, in which case, just wait for it to come, and use the version in there right now for now. From personal experience, as of 9.04 there is not a single piece of software I've come across that doesn't have either a .deb package available, or is in the repos. Before then, from 8.04 until 9.04, the only time I needed to compile was for SynCE, which at the time was (b), and now is fully in the repos.

"You have to compile from source all the time" is another piece of FUD and ignorance against modern Linux distros that simply isn't true.

 

[djBon2112]

And sorry, I forgot: modules, which mean "drivers" in Linux, rarely have to be compiled by the end user: they can be distributed as pre-compiled .so files (like .dll in Windows) that you modprobe in.

Lastly, I've never heard of an IT department, or anywhere for that matter, firing someone for pointing out something they HAVE to do to get their computer working. And if you're the IT guy implementing Linux across the organization, you're probably not going to WANT the user to compile it: you'll do it for them!

 

[eeyrjmr]

And sorry, I forgot: modules, which mean "drivers" in Linux, rarely have to be compiled by the end user: they can be distributed as pre-compiled .so files (like .dll in Windows) that you modprobe in.

Lastly, I've never heard of an IT department, or anywhere for that matter, firing someone for pointing out something they HAVE to do to get their computer working. And if you're the IT guy implementing Linux across the organization, you're probably not going to WANT the user to compile it: you'll do it for them!

drivers modules are *.ko like windows *.sys (*.so are equiv of windows *.dll shared libs)

and yer its getting quite tiring the amount of FUD that is spread about Linux.
To some extent in that vid a fair amount of what was wrong is Ubuntu-specific (not linux in general), plus quite a few things have been fixed since that vid (all the X stuff is fixed)

but hey never let fact or actual usage get in the way of FUD

 

[djBon2112]

drivers modules are *.ko like windows *.sys (*.so are equiv of windows *.dll shared libs)

and yer its getting quite tiring the amount of FUD that is spread about Linux.
To some extent in that vid a fair amount of what was wrong is Ubuntu-specific (not linux in general), plus quite a few things have been fixed since that vid (all the X stuff is fixed)

but hey never let fact or actual usage get in the way of FUD

Sorry, yes, I always get my .ko and .so's confused