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Linux Mint 18: The Best Desktop...Period

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Like most fans of Linux Mint, I will agree that it is a solid desktop with a wide range of applications but is Mint 18 the best desktop...period? This is a chance for all you alternative OS users out there to weigh in on the subject.

I've been using Linux desktops since the leading desktop front-end was Bash. Things have changed in those 25 years. Today, the best Linux desktop is the latest version of Linux Mint: Linux Mint 18 Sarah with the Cinnamon 3.0 interface. Indeed, from where I sit, it's not only the best Linux desktop, it's the best desktop operating system -- period.

 
I've run Mint with the Cinnamon DM, it's good but I'm partial to the MATE DM these days so it's Ubuntu MATE for me and I couldn't be happier.

Your preferred desktop manager is a fairly personal choice based around one's needs, I think it'd be hard to claim outright that any one DM is better than another.
 
There are a number of Linux distros out there that are really good, I have always liked the Mint ones, it is the rest of the software out there that needs polishing.
 
Lakados said:
There are a number of Linux distros out there that are really good, I have always liked the Mint ones, it is the rest of the software out there that needs polishing.
Click to expand...

I can honestly say that I don't experience any more software related issues than I do under Windows, specifically what gives you grief Lakados?

What needs to change is office software needs to move away from propitiatory formats such as docx and move to a more open solution, I find it ludicrous in this day and age that the interchange of important documents is limited to propitiatory formats only.
 
I had Mint running on a laptop that was given to me as a "if you fix it it's yours" gift. I have to say it ran pretty smooth given the hardware it was running on. It definitely didn't feel as bloated or laggy as Ubuntu started to feel when I tried it.

Not sure how it compares now, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't impressed back then. I found myself using the laptop more than my actual computer, until the laptop finally said no more.
 
MS-DOS 4 EVA!

glcEysx.jpg
 
I've run Mint in the past but right now I prefer ElementaryOS. I guess if you are not a gamer it is better than Windows but I need Windows for games.
 
Mint is the best Desktop OS of a flavour hardly anyone uses, yes. Betamax was great, too.
 
Jadawin said:
Mint is the best Desktop OS of a flavour hardly anyone uses, yes. Betamax was great, too.
Click to expand...

I struggling with the sarcasm here...

...Is that a Windows user taking the piss out of Linux in the Linux forum of all things?
 
BulletDust said:
I struggling with the sarcasm here...

..Is that a Windows user taking the piss out of Linux in the Linux forum of all things?
Click to expand...

This thread was linked on the HardOCP front page, so you're going to have people walking on your lawn or doing drive-bys. And my internal monologue when seeing the post was pretty much "What the what?" followed by "people still use Linux?". :)
 
Croak said:
This thread was linked on the HardOCP front page, so you're going to have people walking on your lawn or doing drive-bys. And my internal monologue when seeing the post was pretty much "What the what?" followed by "people still use Linux?". :)
Click to expand...

I find it boggling that PC enthusiasts are so engorged in Windows that they fail to realise that it's not 1998 anymore! ;)

Linux usage is actually increasing, having said that, we all know that Linux usage is virtually impossible to quantify.

Market share for browsers, operating systems and search engines | News
 
I installed it on a couple test systems and have had issues with Samba on both. Still trying to get it fixed. For now my main systems are staying on 17.3. Overall it is a nice update, uses 70MB less RAM, adds nice options to the Driver manager but without Samba it's not ready for primetime with me.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
If only a PC stopped at the OS...
Click to expand...

It's pretty clear the author's area of expertise ends at the OS.

There have been some changes in what Mint can support. The 64-bit ISO image can boot with BIOS or UEFI, but the 32-bit version will only work with BIOS. Mint highly recommends running the 64-bit version on any modern -- late 90s and up -- computers.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see what late 90s 64-bit system he has sitting around his garage. 16+ year old PCs are considered modern?
 
BulletDust said:
I've run Mint with the Cinnamon DM, it's good but I'm partial to the MATE DM these days so it's Ubuntu MATE for me and I couldn't be happier.

Your preferred desktop manager is a fairly personal choice based around one's needs, I think it'd be hard to claim outright that any one DM is better than another.
Click to expand...

Anyone give me a rundown as to the differences between Cinnamon and MATE? Haven't tried Mint in forever, may be a good time to boot it up again...
 
Since I've switch to JetBrains IDE's, I have less reasons to say with OS X/W10. However Adobe and Ableton keep me from fully leaving and I don't like to run things in Wine.
 
Eh, 'best' is always subjective, not objective.

I've been running Mint Linux (Cinnamon flavor) on a Vista era laptop for 6+ months and am quite happy with it. I originally put Windows 10 on it (a test case) but decided I didn't like the compromises that Windows 10 required (no update control and excessive tracking). I figured it was time to give Linux a try again. I don't game or run Photoshop on the laptop so I've got all my normal daily use applications (Firefox, Thunderbird, jEdit, Libre Office, Octave, g++, etc). All the hardware worked after the install and Brothers actually had a Linux driver for my multifuction printer. I like having control of my computer again.

After my experience with Mint Linux on the laptop, I'm planning on dual booting my main desktop (Windows 10 and Mint Linux). Windows 10 will be for gaming and Photoshop, Linux will be for everything else. Just need to purchase a larger SSD for the boot drive.
 
I like Linux Mint. It is my favorite Linux system and my favorite operating system without exception, and Cinnamon is my favorite desktop of the post Gnome 2 era.

IMHO, they COMPLETELY bungled the 18 release though. It's been full of issues thus far for me, which particularly stands out as I have been using Mint almost entirely problem free since release 13.

It feels more like a beta than a final release based on an Ubuntu LTS version.
 
Simmonz said:
I installed it on a couple test systems and have had issues with Samba on both. Still trying to get it fixed. For now my main systems are staying on 17.3. Overall it is a nice update, uses 70MB less RAM, adds nice options to the Driver manager but without Samba it's not ready for primetime with me.
Click to expand...

What problems are you having with SAMBA?

I don't use SAMBA much, but it connects to my NAS on the rare occasion I connect via SAMBA just fine.

I never do folder shares from client machines anymore. I've pretty much considered this to be bad practice since the 90's, I also don't believe i sharing printers connected to computers. If a printer is to be on the network, it should be directly connected, without needing a computer. So the only thing I do with SAMBA is folder mounts from my server, but they appear to work well.

That being said, I only used it dueing setup. Once I get everything set up, my clients all mount NFS folders at boot time instead.
 
Here are some of the issues I had with LM18 Cinnamon when I first installed it this past weekend:


1.) Intermittently the search bar in the menu would not work. Instead when i typed, text would show up in my previously active window. This was hugely annoying as I always hit the "Windows"key and just start typing to find programs.

2.a) GUI Network manager interferes with manually configured (in /etc/network/interfaces ) bonded network interface using ifenslave. Everything works except DNS. I can reach the outside world, just not resolve domain names.

2.b) Turns out GUI Network manager now can handle bonded interfaces using ifenslave. It works well, EXCEPT it always - no matter what you do - defaults to the bonded connection being "off" upon boot, which means the at boot the system will wait for an active network connection and take for bloody ever to complete, and when it does, I'd need to press the "on/off" button in the GUI network manager to turn it back on again in order to have network connectivity. After this I'd need to manually mount all of my NFS mounts, as they wouldn't automatically mount at boot time, due to there being no network.

3.) While trying to troubleshoot the above, after one reboot, I was reduced to Cinnamon hanging on boot, pinning 2 cores (200% CPU) and only displaying a black screen with a mouse pointer.

I guess I just feel that Mint 18 maybe was released a little prematurely, and isn't quite ready yet.

Oh, and the bug where FAT32 formatted USB sticks are write only in Nautilus (and only in nautilus, work fine from other file managers, and the command line) first introduced in Mint 15 over 3 years ago still isn't fixed in this release, which is kind of a bummer.

I also find it annoyign that kernel updates are not updated from the command line with apt-get like I am used to on my Ubuntu servers. You seemingly HaVE TO use the GUI Update Manager in order to get Kernel updates.

My expected behavior would have been "apt-get upgrade" shows that a new kernel in the current tree is available, but holds it back, and "apt-get dist-upgrade" or "apt-get install <kernel package name>" installs that kernel and that only new kernel trees do not show up using apt-get. It seems with LM18 ALL kernel upgrades are completely hidden from apt-get for some reason, and only show up in the GUI Update Manager, which is really annoying.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Here are some of the issues I had with LM18 Cinnamon when I first installed it this past weekend:


1.) Intermittently the search bar in the menu would not work. Instead when i typed, text would show up in my previously active window. This was hugely annoying as I always hit the "Windows"key and just start typing to find programs.

2.a) GUI Network manager interferes with manually configured (in /etc/network/interfaces ) bonded network interface using ifenslave. Everything works except DNS. I can reach the outside world, just not resolve domain names.

2.b) Turns out GUI Network manager now can handle bonded interfaces using ifenslave. It works well, EXCEPT it always - no matter what you do - defaults to the bonded connection being "off" upon boot, which means the at boot the system will wait for an active network connection and take for bloody ever to complete, and when it does, I'd need to press the "on/off" button in the GUI network manager to turn it back on again in order to have network connectivity. After this I'd need to manually mount all of my NFS mounts, as they wouldn't automatically mount at boot time, due to there being no network.

3.) While trying to troubleshoot the above, after one reboot, I was reduced to Cinnamon hanging on boot, pinning 2 cores (200% CPU) and only displaying a black screen with a mouse pointer.

I guess I just feel that Mint 18 maybe was released a little prematurely, and isn't quite ready yet.

Oh, and the bug where FAT32 formatted USB sticks are write only in Nautilus (and only in nautilus, work fine from other file managers, and the command line) first introduced in Mint 15 over 3 years ago still isn't fixed in this release, which is kind of a bummer.

I also find it annoyign that kernel updates are not updated from the command line with apt-get like I am used to on my Ubuntu servers. You seemingly HaVE TO use the GUI Update Manager in order to get Kernel updates.

My expected behavior would have been "apt-get upgrade" shows that a new kernel in the current tree is available, but holds it back, and "apt-get dist-upgrade" or "apt-get install <kernel package name>" installs that kernel and that only new kernel trees do not show up using apt-get. It seems with LM18 ALL kernel upgrades are completely hidden from apt-get for some reason, and only show up in the GUI Update Manager, which is really annoying.
Click to expand...


Since last weekend, I've actually solved #2 by completely disabling the network manager service, and inatead relying completely on my custom /etc/network/interfaces configuration file for network settings.

If anyone else wants to do this it can be disabled by:

Code: 
sudo systemctl disable NetworkManager.service


If you change your mind, it can be reenabled again by:

Code: 
sudo systemctl reenable NetworkManager.service
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
What problems are you having with SAMBA?

I don't use SAMBA much, but it connects to my NAS on the rare occasion I connect via SAMBA just fine.

I never do folder shares from client machines anymore. I've pretty much considered this to be bad practice since the 90's, I also don't believe i sharing printers connected to computers. If a printer is to be on the network, it should be directly connected, without needing a computer. So the only thing I do with SAMBA is folder mounts from my server, but they appear to work well.

That being said, I only used it dueing setup. Once I get everything set up, my clients all mount NFS folders at boot time instead.
Click to expand...

I have tried to gain access to the Samba.conf file through terminal as well as the GUI from the Software Manager but it won't open from either. Basically if I can't open the file at all then I can't change the workgroup to the proper name. It doesn't givbe an error, it just won't open. When I click on the Samba GUI client from the start menu nothing happens. I tried entering some gedit command I found on a website but that didn't work either. Terminal isn't my strong suit so maybe I was using the wrong code. Nevertheless the fact that the GUI client won't open after downlaoding is an issue for me.
 
Simmonz said:
I have tried to gain access to the Samba.conf file through terminal as well as the GUI from the Software Manager but it won't open from either. Basically if I can't open the file at all then I can't change the workgroup to the proper name. It doesn't givbe an error, it just won't open. When I click on the Samba GUI client from the start menu nothing happens. I tried entering some gedit command I found on a website but that didn't work either. Terminal isn't my strong suit so maybe I was using the wrong code. Nevertheless the fact that the GUI client won't open after downlaoding is an issue for me.
Click to expand...

That is odd.

Can't open it or cant save it?

did the command line command you use have a "sudo" infront of it? (This temporarily gives you admin priveleges so you can edit things you otherwise couldn't with your regular user account, and would pretty much be necessary for any config file in /etc/ (which is where I assume Samba.conf is located.) I've only ever mounted SAMBA mounts directly from nautilus using the IP of my server, so I've never had to make any changes there, as I don't use workgroups or network browsers at all.

If you know the IP of the machine you are trying to access you should be able to type it right into Nautiuls. I believe it's something like smb://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/<sharename>
 
scojer said:
''Scorn is an atmospheric first person horror adventure game set in a nightmarish universe of odd forms and somber tapestry. It is designed around an idea of "being thrown into the world". Isolated and lost inside this dream-like world you will explore different interconnected regions in a non-linear fashion. The unsettling environment is a character itself. Every location contains its own theme (story), puzzles and characters that are integral in creating a cohesive lived in world. Throughout the game you will open up new areas, acquire different skill sets, weapons, various items and try to comprehend the sights presented to you."

Definitely a very interesting looking game, looks heavily influenced by H.R. Geiger or Tool. I'm going to follow it.
Click to expand...

Zarathustra[H] said:
That is odd.

Can't open it or cant save it?

did the command line command you use have a "sudo" infront of it? (This temporarily gives you admin priveleges so you can edit things you otherwise couldn't with your regular user account, and would pretty much be necessary for any config file in /etc/ (which is where I assume Samba.conf is located.) I've only ever mounted SAMBA mounts directly from nautilus using the IP of my server, so I've never had to make any changes there, as I don't use workgroups or network browsers at all.

If you know the IP of the machine you are trying to access you should be able to type it right into Nautiuls. I believe it's something like smb://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/<sharename>
Click to expand...

It won't open. Hopefully once it does it will save haha. The command I used was "gksu gedit /etc/samba/smb.conf". I didn't use Sudo, I'll go try that and see if it works.
 
Simmonz said:
It won't open. Hopefully once it does it will save haha. The command I used was "gksu gedit /etc/samba/smb.conf". I didn't use Sudo, I'll go try that and see if it works.
Click to expand...

Should be the same. gksu does the same thing as sudo, just is a little friendlier to GUI programs.

What error message do you get when you try it?

if you type: "ls -lh /etc/samba/" (no quotation marks) what does the output look like?
 
BulletDust said:
I can honestly say that I don't experience any more software related issues than I do under Windows, specifically what gives you grief Lakados?

What needs to change is office software needs to move away from propitiatory formats such as docx and move to a more open solution, I find it ludicrous in this day and age that the interchange of important documents is limited to propitiatory formats only.
Click to expand...

Not going to lie we are heavily MS here, but we are running their full enterprise set AD, Exchange, Sharepoint, Dynamics, Office, SQL, ... the list seems to just go on and on. We would love to change over the annual software assurance is brutal but at the end of the day it is all seamless 534 workstations and a dozen or so physical servers managed by little old me. We are yet to find a linux solution that has the same degree of polish it is either lacking features or support that management or more importantly accounting needs, there are some Linux solutions which offer us what we needed but honestly their support and licensing costs were pretty close to MS to the point where the cost of retraining and deployment brought the annual costs within a few hundred dollars of the MS solutions.
 
The only software worth running on a Windows PC anymore are a small handful of pro tools like Adobes stuff, and Abelton. I have found Linux to be superior for everything else I do for a long time now. Sure most AAA games are windows beasts... that is slowly changing and if it ever really shifts uptake on linux will improve.

Of course what has really held linux back has been the ease of use factor. I doubt many people reading this on [H] would have many issues installing and using linux, the average user out there however isn't even capable of doing a clean install of windows never mind, any fancy dual booting or clean linux installs.

I am an Arch user personally, Mint is no doubt one of the best mainstream Linux distros right now. It has all the advantages of Ubuntu with a cleaner more polished "windows" like experience from install to desktop. I have installed linux setups for a handful of family and friends over the years, and mint is hands down the one that people tend to stick with. Its solid all around.
 
Lakados said:
Not going to lie we are heavily MS here, but we are running their full enterprise set AD, Exchange, Sharepoint, Dynamics, Office, SQL, ... the list seems to just go on and on. We would love to change over the annual software assurance is brutal but at the end of the day it is all seamless 534 workstations and a dozen or so physical servers managed by little old me. We are yet to find a linux solution that has the same degree of polish it is either lacking features or support that management or more importantly accounting needs, there are some Linux solutions which offer us what we needed but honestly their support and licensing costs were pretty close to MS to the point where the cost of retraining and deployment brought the annual costs within a few hundred dollars of the MS solutions.
Click to expand...

You have pointed out one of the biggest issues with Linux in the business world. For the smallest offices without on staff IT, linux isn't likely very practical. With a medium size outfit like yours, the support from linux business suppliers isn't really all that attractive. The only business I think really find value and cost savings need to be large enough to the point where more customization makes sense (and in fact can be looked at as a major advantage over the MS locked down ecosystem). Linux has made many inroads in the largest offices due to the openness of the system... the very thing that makes it hard to implement in smaller and medium sized outfits.
 
ChadD said:
You have pointed out one of the biggest issues with Linux in the business world. For the smallest offices without on staff IT, linux isn't likely very practical. With a medium size outfit like yours, the support from linux business suppliers isn't really all that attractive. The only business I think really find value and cost savings need to be large enough to the point where more customization makes sense (and in fact can be looked at as a major advantage over the MS locked down ecosystem). Linux has made many inroads in the largest offices due to the openness of the system... the very thing that makes it hard to implement in smaller and medium sized outfits.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that and the fact that while it sucks, Microsoft's proprietary office document formats (.doc .xls .ppt and these days .docx, .xlsx and .pptx) have become a defacto industry standard. (IMHO, nothing proprietary should ever be allowed to become a standard). LibreOffice is a fantastic suite of software, and the price is definitely right, compared to Ms Office, but only if you stick with open document formats. The moment you open a Microsoft document it may render slightly differently in LibreOffice than it does in Ms Office, and that can be a huge deal breaker for many people.

Still, there is Wine, but that can be difficult to configure. Crossover helps, but for the price of Crossover, you can almost have a Windows license, and either way, both of these feel like a hack to me, compared to running native software.

This - I think - would be one of the biggest obstacles to running Linux in the office, IMHO. Also, if you are in an engineering company you'll probably need Solidworks, in which case you'd be screwed. Sure you could run FreeCAD, which is both Free and very good, but you can't open Solidworks files with it, without some potential conversion issues resulting in dimensions and tolerances shifting.

I'd argue that from a standalone OS itself, Linux is superior in just about every regard (though Mint 18 should still be considered beta, IMHO). From a OS only perspective, OpenGL isn't quite as good as the latest DX versions (at least it hasn't been in the last few titles I've tried on both), and it can be slightly more challenging for beginners to use (but my dad and 8 year old stepson seem to not have a problem with it)

All the other issues are really just due to a lack of Software vendor support and Hardware driver support.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Yeah, that and the fact that while it sucks, Microsoft's proprietary office document formats (.doc .xls .ppt and these days .docx, .xlsx and .pptx) have become a defacto industry standard. (IMHO, nothing proprietary should ever be allowed to become a standard). LibreOffice is a fantastic suite of software, and the price is definitely right, compared to Ms Office, but only if you stick with open document formats. The moment you open a Microsoft document it may render slightly differently in LibreOffice than it does in Ms Office, and that can be a huge deal breaker for many people.
Click to expand...

Open XML is no more proprietary than PDF. It's an industry standard. Anyone is free to use it just like LibreOffice does. Even if you use ODF, which both Libre and MS support, there still can be rendering differences. The issue is the file format, it's the applications themselves and nothing as complex as two complex pieces of software are ever going to exactly behave the same.

As for LibreOffice's quality. Sure it's capable but it's just not in the same league as MS Office, which is really more of a platform that an application suite now. Considering that that's a Windows version of LibreOffice, if MS Office weren't considerably better we'd all be using LibreOffice. That's not a slam on LibreOffice. MS has spent over two decades and billions on Office. That's just not something that's easy to replicate give those kinds of resources.
 
It is odd that you need to agree on whichever distro of Linux is the best. Linux is good if you know what you are doing and the configuration is rather trivial ;) .
 
heatlesssun said:
Open XML is no more proprietary than PDF. It's an industry standard. Anyone is free to use it just like LibreOffice does. Even if you use ODF, which both Libre and MS support, there still can be rendering differences. The issue is the file format, it's the applications themselves and nothing as complex as two complex pieces of software are ever going to exactly behave the same.

As for LibreOffice's quality. Sure it's capable but it's just not in the same league as MS Office, which is really more of a platform that an application suite now. Considering that that's a Windows version of LibreOffice, if MS Office weren't considerably better we'd all be using LibreOffice. That's not a slam on LibreOffice. MS has spent over two decades and billions on Office. That's just not something that's easy to replicate give those kinds of resources.
Click to expand...

I don't do slide shows much, but I type my fair share of documents and use spreadsheets a lot.

I find that if I use LibreOffice writer or calc they are every bit as capable as Ms Office, as long as I don't try to bring in Ms files, at least for everything I do.

Granted, I don't use some of the most advanced features, but I use a good amount of them, and they work well once you figure them out.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I find that if I use LibreOffice writer or calc they are every bit as capable as Ms Office, as long as I don't try to bring in Ms files, at least for everything I do.
Click to expand...

And if it's doing what you need it to then why use anything else? I think that's kind of how it works with Windows and Office. For most people, they work well, why switch only to have things break or lose functionality? I'm a huge OneNote user, there's really nothing like that app.
 
heatlesssun said:
And if it's doing what you need it to then why use anything else? I think that's kind of how it works with Windows and Office. For most people, they work well, why switch only to have things break or lose functionality? I'm a huge OneNote user, there's really nothing like that app.
Click to expand...

Well, being free should be a huge seller.

Unlike with Windows which is always bundled with new computers, the price of Ms Office is not invisible to consumers.

I've heard that a lot of people use One Note. I looked at it once and found no use for it, but I can see where if you find that app important you might be reticent to switch.

A favorite app not being available on another platform is one the the biggest reasons why people don't try other systems.
 
This whole conversation between Arch, Mint, Ubuntu, etc is comical as they are just front end BS for Debian.

Debian/Plasma
/thread
 
The issue is not the capability of MS Office or Libre Office as both software suites are very capable, and the belief that propitiatory software somehow has better support doesn't always hold true. The issue is that in this day and age no work environment should be tied down to a proprietary standard that has compatibility issues even between differing versions of MS Office itself, when it comes to the interchange of information an open format needs to be adopted when the propitiatory standard has issues even on the very software it was developed to run on - Which is most likely deliberate on behalf of the manufacturer.

Still, it's quite a call to claim that Mint with the Cinnamon DM is the best desktop 'period', I used it for quite some time and it defiantly had some shortfallings. Although being Linux there was very little limit on customisation and you were able to work around them for the most part.
 
NoOther said:
This whole conversation between Arch, Mint, Ubuntu, etc is comical as they are just front end BS for Debian.

Debian/Plasma
/thread
Click to expand...

Arch does not = Ubuntu. Arch does not = Debian. Arch = Arch. Arch is a rolling release, with a bare min base install and runs the latest kernal it is on par with Debian, or Redhat ect and has many off shoot distros (like Manjaro which I would put ahead of mint as perhaps the best out of the box Linux Distro). Its a favorite of many long time linux users, who also realize it's no where close to a mass market OS. I love Arch, but its for linux nerds not everyday users. That is where disros like Ubuntu and its mint spins come in. They are widely supported, stable, and have very good support. Ubuntu and its spin offs are the closest thing to a linux standard desktop going right now. Of course folks could install actual Debian instead... the polish on ubuntu and mint for end users is simply better.

Saying Ubuntu and Mint are just Debian is true... but its like saying Windows 10 is just windows NT, which is also true just as Win 8 7 Vista and XP where all running the NT kernal. Yet you can hardly say all those OSes where the same could you.
 
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