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Linux Contractor Fired for Using Firefox/Linux

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Here’s an oddball story for you. Some guy lands a gig patching Linux servers for a big company. The project manager had never heard of Desktop Linux or FireFox…which leads to dude getting fired. Wait, what!?!

Now, I'm going to ask you to remember that he was dealing with a Project Manager that is employed by a huge computer/server company with three letters in their name. She was in charge of switching a large credit card company with four letters in their name over to Linux Servers. It isn't completely out of our realm of understanding that she didn't know what Linux on the desktop is. I will give her that. But I cannot let slide her next inquiry: "What's this Foxfire thing?"
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I concur, we honestly need the other side's story. It would appear to me something else had happened.
 
I am trying to figure out why a Linux professional attempting to get a contract to help convert a mixed OS company would not have at the very least a valid Windows VM available.
 
Tekara said:
The way the story on the blog reads it sounds like the Linux guy called into the center asking how to circumvent the security so that he could use Firefox to access their servers which only worked with IE.

Definitely need more information on the matter though.
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Sounded to me more like he considered the lack of Firefox compatibility in the test to be a bug (I'd agree) and that he called the people running the test to report it and see if he could get it resolved regardless of whether he would have a Windows box within a couple days.
 
Maybe I didn't read the story right however it seemed he was never actually hired since he wasn't able to complete the competency test.
 
He couldn't load up Windows/IE in a VM?

I'm not sure I'd be too keen on hiring someone who refused to use Microsoft products.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
He couldn't load up Windows/IE in a VM?
Click to expand...
They were sending him a laptop with Windows installed on it so he could do the test. He just chose to also phone the people administering the test and report the issue.

I'm not sure I'd be too keen on hiring someone who refused to use Microsoft products.
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Why should he have to buy a $100+ Windows license to do a Linux job?
 
DeathFromBelow said:
He couldn't load up Windows/IE in a VM?

I'm not sure I'd be too keen on hiring someone who refused to use Microsoft products.
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QFT. I know someone who will surf the web with Netscape Navigator just because he refuses to use IE. Netscape Navigator!
 
I disagree with the reason that this person was "fired" for, but in the Real World (tm), pissing of your prospective employer is not a good thing. If your prospective boss *FEDEXes" you a windows PC to finish a competency exam, calling up their IE Only Website to see if they can change it to cater to *YOUR* incompatible browser is a HUGE no-no. Why should an employer *change* to suit you, especially if they haven't even hired you?

The PM was doing the guy a favor by FEDEXing a computer with windows and IE over to get the job application completed, and he returns the favor by calling up their webmaster asking if they could make it Firefox friendly. I would have hauled my ass out to BestBuy, purchased a $500 Windoze laptop and gotten the quiz done within 3 hours... that would show some flexibility and proactiveness on my part to my prospective employer... rather than being a sissy complainer about *their* tools.

The fact the PM was technically ignorant is another matter. Also, in the Real World (TM) PM's don't have to be technically knowledgeable on the topic at hand (it's a bad idea, but we're talking about the real world, where sh*t happens) their responsibility is to keep the project on-time and on-budget... their technical staff is responsible for the details. However, it helps immensely if the PM is also knowledgeable about the task at hand at a less than sky high level.

Also, in my experience, webmasters are like the manager of the IT network, they're complete meglomaniacs with *HUGE* egos and control complexes. Even the slightest hint of criticism of *their* AUTHORITY is NOT TOLERATED. Support Firefox... pshaw... go away heathen. Unblock some ports so you can actually get a teleconference with a vendor done... pshaw... go away heathen scum... run a Linux Box on their Windows Only network... BLASHPHEMY you security-blind doofus!
 
keenan said:
Why should he have to buy a $100+ Windows license to do a Linux job?
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Because it cost him the contract worth THOUSANDS of dollars.

You can keep yourself on your "FSF" High Horse... but if I were in his situation, I'd suck it up and get the job done.

Being "right" usually doesn't pay the bills. Being "flexible" and "considerate of your boss' needs/wants" does.
 
I don't see how anything the "other side" could say would change the stupidity of this.

The PM was an idiot, and a bitch. Oh well, that's IBM for you :rolleyes:
 
djBon2112 said:
I don't see how anything the "other side" could say would change the stupidity of this.

The PM was an idiot, and a bitch. Oh well, that's IBM for you :rolleyes:
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Because the way this story makes it sound smells like bullshit.
 
Talon Blackrazor said:
Because the way this story makes it sound smells like bullshit.
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What I mean is, regardless of what he DID say to the Webmaster, and what the webmaster DID say to the PM, it was still over the line to deny this project because he asked about using an alternate browser on a test... that's just retarded. That's like getting fired (well, not hired) for asking another manager than your hiring one about the details of your prospective place of employment.
 
The PM was doing the guy a favor by FEDEXing a computer with windows and IE over to get the job application completed, and he returns the favor by calling up their webmaster asking if they could make it Firefox friendly. I would have hauled my ass out to BestBuy, purchased a $500 Windoze laptop and gotten the quiz done within 3 hours... that would show some flexibility and proactiveness on my part to my prospective employer... rather than being a sissy complainer about *their* tools.
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Were I in a PM position... I would applaud a prospective applicant's initiative, contacting the webmaster of our website to look for a workaround, potentially saving me the cost of fedexing a windows laptop across the country or whatever. But that's just me.
 
Arcygenical said:
Were I in a PM position... I would applaud a prospective applicant's initiative, contacting the webmaster of our website to look for a workaround, potentially saving me the cost of fedexing a windows laptop across the country or whatever. But that's just me.
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I agree, and I think that's a SERIOUS failing on the PM's part as a manager. A good manager is willing to look past their ego and desire to "always be right/the boss" and take notice when an underling is doing something a better way.
 
djBon2112 said:
I agree, and I think that's a SERIOUS failing on the PM's part as a manager. A good manager is willing to look past their ego and desire to "always be right/the boss" and take notice when an underling is doing something a better way.
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But then again, the guy in question could have called the network administrator any number of colourful adjectives... Told him that their network policies were stupid, that anyone and everyone on the planet with an IQ higher than that of a rake (or stone) can get a website working with FF etc. etc.

If the story is as simple as it's laid out (and it was simply a benign, "Hey, do you think we can get around this somehow?) and he really was fired for whatever reason, it disgusts me - and I would sue for a months worth of pay (the time it took to take all the certifications etc."

Although, imagine had he pulled it off, called up the PM and said, "Don't worry - I got it sorted out, this is what happened, this is what needed to happen, Talk to you from whereverthefuck the contract is supposed to be fulfilled in"
 
Im confused as to why someone would send you a laptop to take a competency test? I mean that is the test right?

"You can't get the to Url?"

"Not in firefox"

"Ok well thank you for applying"

It's called IEtab you goon, and barring all the standard linux work arounds theres OMG Windows!

Look I can dance around on my high horse about redhat and fedora and unbuntu or mac or whatever, but shit there's a reason why everybody at work uses windows for their desktops. Sure My laptop dual boots ubuntu and hackintosh, but windows is still on there.

Sigh whatever. I hate my job too, but I wouldnt risk staying unemployed over my linux fetish.
 
Any webmaster knows you build your site for Firefox and then tune for IE... Firefox is where standard HTML still lives. IE, not so much. If this isn't common knowledge amongst webmasters, webmasters wouldn't dare spout such nonsense all over the internet.

The project manager is obviously not qualified for this job. To MANAGE a project, you NEED to know how things need to happen, which means WORKING KNOWLEDGE of the project. To have somebody in that position, where you're converting everything to linux, not know what desktop linux is (or firefox for that matter) is almost jaw-dropping. There are obviously other people within reach of this "big company" that would have working knowledge of everything involved with the project. Unlike Windows admins, Linux admins are organized people that know their stuff.
 
wiseoracle said:
I hate when people call it FoxFire.
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I've got client who calls it FoxFire right after I tell them it's FireFox.:rolleyes:


Also, that bog was full of nothing but linux zealot fanbois.
When you work (apply for work)for a company, you use what they give you. In this case, IE with Windoze. I hate it when clients of mine get new employees who are stuck doing things from their last job. They expect all the bells and whistles that they used to work with, but they don't realize that the new employer's system is less capable and putting in place what they want cost $$$$.
It's like being a construction worker used to driving Caterpiller bulldozers and then the new job has "X" brand bulldozers. You don't complain, you just drive.
 
bbf said:
I disagree with the reason that this person was "fired" for, but in the Real World (tm), pissing of your prospective employer is not a good thing. If your prospective boss *FEDEXes" you a windows PC to finish a competency exam, calling up their IE Only Website to see if they can change it to cater to *YOUR* incompatible browser is a HUGE no-no. Why should an employer *change* to suit you, especially if they haven't even hired you?

The PM was doing the guy a favor by FEDEXing a computer with windows and IE over to get the job application completed, and he returns the favor by calling up their webmaster asking if they could make it Firefox friendly. I would have hauled my ass out to BestBuy, purchased a $500 Windoze laptop and gotten the quiz done within 3 hours... that would show some flexibility and proactiveness on my part to my prospective employer... rather than being a sissy complainer about *their* tools.

The fact the PM was technically ignorant is another matter. Also, in the Real World (TM) PM's don't have to be technically knowledgeable on the topic at hand (it's a bad idea, but we're talking about the real world, where sh*t happens) their responsibility is to keep the project on-time and on-budget... their technical staff is responsible for the details. However, it helps immensely if the PM is also knowledgeable about the task at hand at a less than sky high level.

Also, in my experience, webmasters are like the manager of the IT network, they're complete meglomaniacs with *HUGE* egos and control complexes. Even the slightest hint of criticism of *their* AUTHORITY is NOT TOLERATED. Support Firefox... pshaw... go away heathen. Unblock some ports so you can actually get a teleconference with a vendor done... pshaw... go away heathen scum... run a Linux Box on their Windows Only network... BLASHPHEMY you security-blind doofus!
Click to expand...

Yea really. I would guess the either the guy was a dick to someone along the line or the message got really screwed up. Either way my ass would have done one of two things. First would have been to wait for the entire 1 day for my new notebook they were overnighting me that I would need to use anyway in the future. Second would have been to find a windows machine. Hell go to kinko or the public library. Hell maybe load windows in a VM or something.
 
I really feel for the guy because this obviously is a load of bull if his story is accurate, but at the same time any tech worth his or her salt should be able to dual boot win/linux. I do this myself for situations like this.
 
bbf said:
.........................
Also, in my experience, webmasters are like the manager of the IT network, they're complete meglomaniacs with *HUGE* egos and control complexes. Even the slightest hint of criticism of *their* AUTHORITY is NOT TOLERATED. Support Firefox... pshaw... go away heathen. Unblock some ports so you can actually get a teleconference with a vendor done... pshaw... go away heathen scum... run a Linux Box on their Windows Only network... BLASHPHEMY you security-blind doofus!
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more on this. This is one reason why I hate working with tech support from other companies. If someone told me my settings/network/whatever is wrong and I should change it, I would ask them why and how. If I was to say the same thing to most techs I've met/know, I'll be strung up and burned!:eek:
 
Sorry something smells a bit off, The big three letter company mention has Firefox as their standard browser shipped on all their laptops to employees or contractors.

As for the Bank they may have their own security and change management controls that approve how "their" key word their system gets accessed. It's not that they don't like Linux desktop or Firefox but the Bank has tested their system and approved how their system will be accessed.

How should I know? I am doing a contract for the Big three letter company right now for an insurance company and it can be very frustrating at times but it is the Clients, let me say that one more time "the clients" call on how things go.

I tried other ways and had the clients internal security system flag the access and had to do a lot of explaining to clear things up.

If you don't like the rules the Client or the person paying you the $$ you better find a different way to make money it's not and ideal world and not always logical but if your not paying the $$ then your not the one calling the shots
 
bbf said:
Also, in my experience, webmasters are like the manager of the IT network, they're complete meglomaniacs with *HUGE* egos and control complexes. Even the slightest hint of criticism of *their* AUTHORITY is NOT TOLERATED. Support Firefox... pshaw... go away heathen. Unblock some ports so you can actually get a teleconference with a vendor done... pshaw... go away heathen scum... run a Linux Box on their Windows Only network... BLASHPHEMY you security-blind doofus!
Click to expand...

It's all the sex they *didn't* get in high school and college catching up with them :).

And it's an all to common trend, yes.
 
I'm surprised we haven't seen comments from the usual suspects about how Firefox is so insecure, that no real IT person approves the use of Firefox, that IE is so much easier to lock down, etc.

Now having said all that, can someone explain to me (a non-IT person) just WHY Mozilla does not have an enterprise version that does everything the IT pros want? :confused:
 
I subcontract with several large IT firms and they all require digicam/xp laptop/techy toolkit/steeltoe boots as a condition of employment. Shell oil even makes you take there online safety course to work in there stations.

Sometimes it takes money to make money.

Cheers!
 
Nothing good has ever come of a non-employee calling an IT dept. for external access. At least he tried to go through tech support.
 
A holier-than-thou Linux geek called the service desk to enlighten them about "the way things should be." This was not appreciated in a one-day old employee who had been expressed a laptop. All he had to do was wait one day and use the laptop to take the damn test. Then he could have done what he wanted once on the job.
 
Thats IBM. A large percentage of their employees are idiots... American or Indian alike.

I used to work for ibm global services, and my supervisor was a nitwit wackjob. I left that dead end job... Then at my next job they are using IBM for some things... CAN I EVER ESCAPE THEM!! Seriously, I knew more about the app than their $3000 a day consultant did.

Oh and I almost forgot this one.. one of their mainframe programmers makes a mistake in some code they wrote for us, that makes a printjob print as 5000 1 page jobs, instead of a single 5000 page job. So this giant xerox duplicator (180 ppm) with a fast motor and this clutch would spin up, CHING (clutch kicking in), spin down, repeat, 5000 times a day for this single print job. Result: The xerox was breaking down almost daily, the print shop guys were freaking out, getting behind, and working late. Xerox repairmen were saying "omg I've never even seen this part outside of the printer..." So IBM says "we can recode this app for $75,000" Our mgmt say no way. They then offer "we can sell you these new printers that will not have a problem, $50,000" again, not accepted. I figure out a way to use pc3270 (mainframe emulator app) to run a remote printer config, print to text, append. So the job comes into a pc, spools up, then the print shop guys could send it over to the big duplicator once done.

effing idiots..

About 9 months later the programmer found or figured out his error and they fixed it. 1 damn line of code.

Theres more but its late and I'm off to bed.
 
djBon2112 said:
I don't see how anything the "other side" could say would change the stupidity of this.

The PM was an idiot, and a bitch. Oh well, that's IBM for you :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Arcygenical said:
Were I in a PM position... I would applaud a prospective applicant's initiative, contacting the webmaster of our website to look for a workaround, potentially saving me the cost of fedexing a windows laptop across the country or whatever. But that's just me.
Click to expand...

I worked for EDS and let me tell you, that's not the way these companies or their clients work. In the short term I think the guy was stupid. In the long term I say he's lucky he doesn't have to maintain a relationship with that kind of people.
 
That's exactly my experience when I worked as a consultant with EDS working for Ternium and believe me. It's not pretty out there. Many companies are just a big mess that function with strings attached all around and magic cords. If you want it done good then forget about consulting and start your own company, from the beginning.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
GoodBoy said:
Thats IBM. A large percentage of their employees are idiots... American or Indian alike.

I used to work for ibm global services, and my supervisor was a nitwit wackjob. I left that dead end job... Then at my next job they are using IBM for some things... CAN I EVER ESCAPE THEM!! Seriously, I knew more about the app than their $3000 a day consultant did.

Oh and I almost forgot this one.. one of their mainframe programmers makes a mistake in some code they wrote for us, that makes a printjob print as 5000 1 page jobs, instead of a single 5000 page job. So this giant xerox duplicator (180 ppm) with a fast motor and this clutch would spin up, CHING (clutch kicking in), spin down, repeat, 5000 times a day for this single print job. Result: The xerox was breaking down almost daily, the print shop guys were freaking out, getting behind, and working late. Xerox repairmen were saying "omg I've never even seen this part outside of the printer..." So IBM says "we can recode this app for $75,000" Our mgmt say no way. They then offer "we can sell you these new printers that will not have a problem, $50,000" again, not accepted. I figure out a way to use pc3270 (mainframe emulator app) to run a remote printer config, print to text, append. So the job comes into a pc, spools up, then the print shop guys could send it over to the big duplicator once done.

effing idiots..

About 9 months later the programmer found or figured out his error and they fixed it. 1 damn line of code.

Theres more but its late and I'm off to bed.
Click to expand...

Conclusion. Capitalism only works with small companies that actually function.
 
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