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Lifetime Mac User Looking to Build

C

chrissphinx

n00b
Joined
Apr 3, 2011
Messages
27
1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Exclusively gaming. I only want to run EVE Online & Portal 2 for now.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Under $1,000 with tax and shipping.
3) Where do you live?
Kalamazoo, MI
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
Case, PSU, Motherboard, CPU, RAM, Graphics Card, HDD, Optical Drive, LCD Monitor, Win7
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
I have an Apple keyboard and Logitech mouse I can use on this new system.
6) Will you be overclocking?
No, not for right now.
7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
24" 1920x1080 is desired, but if that's overextending my budget I am happy with 22" 1680x1050.
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
As soon as I can. No rush, though.
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? etc.
I would like to use a microATX motherboard for this build. Don't need anything fancy.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Unfortunately I do not.

I have used Apple computers my whole life, and although my 20" iMac can run Eve just fine on low settings, I'd really like to run it natively on a Win7 system.
I've never built my own computer before, but I'm up to the challange. Here is what I have so far ...

$55 - GIGABYTE GA-M68MT-S2P mATX AMD Board - A really cheap motherboard, I'm unsure of this selection
$155 - MSI N460GTX Twin Frozr II nVidia GeForce GTX 460 768MB - This is about as much as I think I can spend on a graphics card. The 1GB model is desired, but not sure if I have the money.
$140 - AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz - From what I understand, a very good processor. I think the mobo would maybe unlock it to six cores.
$45 - Crucial 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1066 - I've always liked Crucial and I think this is all I need for now.
$41 - Western Digital Caviar Blue 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" - A hard drive.
$220 - ASUS Glossy Black 24" HDMI Widescreen LCD - This is the 1920x1080 monitor I picked out but if this could be downgraded for budget's sake, no problem.
$20 - ASUS CD / DVD Burner Black - Although I'd like a white/silver one preferably.
$100 - Win7 Home Premium 64-bit - If I touch this thing will I burst into flames?

I am really set on this case and power supply and do not really want to change it:

$90 - Silverstone TJ08 Micro Tower - I really like this case. I think it has some really good cooling and would last me if I wanted to upgrade components later. It may be cramped but I don't need more than an optical drive and one hard drive.
$65 - Antec BP550 Plus 550W Modular PSU ATX12V V2.2 - I really think a modular PSU is the way to go with this smaller Silverstone case.
-----
$931 Total w/o tax & shipping.

I really wanted to get as close to $700 as I could, but that may not be possible. Especially since I need a monitor and a copy of Windows. I only really want to build this to play EVE Online and Portal for now, with the possibility of maybe upgrading in the future. Any help would be appreciated.

Flames are welcome, too. ;)
 
Yeah quite a few things wrong with that setup:

- You want to avoid any motherboard with a Nvidia chipset for the time being as they tend to be slower, less stable, and no longer being supported. The motherboard you chose does indeed use a Nvidia chipset. So find an AMD motherboard that uses an AMD chipset.

- CPU wise, you cannot unlock ANY AMD quad-core CPU to a six-core. Unlocking CPU Cores is mainly for certain AMD dual-core or tri-core CPUs. And those only unlock to a quad-core at most.

- Not a good choice for RAM since you can get slightly faster RAM and get more room for more RAM upgrades for less:
$41 - G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM

- Not a good choice for the hard drive since it's older and slower model. A dollar more gets you a faster and larger hard drive:
$42 - Western Digital WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

- Case wise, compare the insides/layout of the TJ08 with this Coolermaster case:
$55 - Cooler Master Elite 341 RC-341C-KKN1-GP mATX Tower Case

Notice the similarities? Granted, the TJ08 does have a nice looking aluminum front panel, the rest of the body is still steel, just like the Coolermaster Elite 341 case. So decide if the TJ08 is really worth the extra $45 + shipping over the Coolermaster Elite 341.

- While I agree that a modular PSU is the way to go for that case, you just happen to choose a low quality modular PSU unsuitable for gaming rigs. This is the cheapest but still good quality modular PSU that I can recommend:
$90 - XFX P1-650X-CAH9 650W Modular PSU

- Drop the monitor down to this:
$160 - Acer V233HAJbd Black 23" Widescreen LCD Monitor

Saves you about $80 and you still get 1920x1080. The main reason you should be downgrading is that it frees up cash for the GPU...

- For 1920x1080, the GTX 460 768 is not enough. So with the extra $80 saved by switching monitors, we can get you this:
$230 - XFX HD-687A-ZNFC Radeon HD 6870 1GB PCI-E Video Card

Far faster than the GTX 460 768MB at 1920x1080.
 
As an owner of the Silverstone TJ08 case, I don't recommend that case if you have more than one hard drive. The proprietary drive covers limit what you can place in the drive openings -- my video card took up the space where the hard drive would have went, so I had to purchase hot-swap bays in order to fit the drives that I wanted to use.

Go with the Elite 341 case, as well as the rest of Danny Bui's recommendations.
 
Danny Bui said:
Yeah quite a few things wrong with that setup:

- You want to avoid any motherboard with a Nvidia chipset for the time being as they tend to be slower, less stable, and no longer being supported. The motherboard you chose does indeed use a Nvidia chipset. So find an AMD motherboard that uses an AMD chipset.

- CPU wise, you cannot unlock ANY AMD quad-core CPU to a six-core. Unlocking CPU Cores is mainly for certain AMD dual-core or tri-core CPUs. And those only unlock to a quad-core at most.

- Not a good choice for RAM since you can get slightly faster RAM and get more room for more RAM upgrades for less:
$41 - G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM

- Not a good choice for the hard drive since it's older and slower model. A dollar more gets you a faster and larger hard drive:
$42 - Western Digital WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

- Case wise, compare the insides/layout of the TJ08 with this Coolermaster case:
$55 - Cooler Master Elite 341 RC-341C-KKN1-GP mATX Tower Case

Notice the similarities? Granted, the TJ08 does have a nice looking aluminum front panel, the rest of the body is still steel, just like the Coolermaster Elite 341 case. So decide if the TJ08 is really worth the extra $45 + shipping over the Coolermaster Elite 341.

- While I agree that a modular PSU is the way to go for that case, you just happen to choose a low quality modular PSU unsuitable for gaming rigs. This is the cheapest but still good quality modular PSU that I can recommend:
$90 - XFX P1-650X-CAH9 650W Modular PSU

- Drop the monitor down to this:
$160 - Acer V233HAJbd Black 23" Widescreen LCD Monitor

Saves you about $80 and you still get 1920x1080. The main reason you should be downgrading is that it frees up cash for the GPU...

- For 1920x1080, the GTX 460 768 is not enough. So with the extra $80 saved by switching monitors, we can get you this:
$230 - XFX HD-687A-ZNFC Radeon HD 6870 1GB PCI-E Video Card

Far faster than the GTX 460 768MB at 1920x1080.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for the ideas, Danny. I'm really wondering about that XFX PSU, though. It's gotten worse reviews than the Antec and less reviews as well. Is the Antec PSU really that bad? There are a few reviewers using it in gaming builds ...

I've seen the Ripjaws in a lot of builds, but I'm worried the "jaws" will get in the way of some of the other components (optical drive or HDD). Would this stick be more or less the same thing? I'd need a newer mobo that would support 1333 RAM. So, what about this board instead? Would dropping down to a Phenom II 555 be okay? I may consider dropping down the monitor even further if I need a +$200 graphics card to run at 1920x1080.

I had also chosen an nVidia card because CCP (the company that makes Eve) works very close with the company and I feel that their game would run a bit better on an nVidia board. I don't really know if this is the case. The GTX 460 768MB was getting satisfactory frame rates running at 1680x1050 so I may have to consider that to reduce the cost. What about this XFX HD 6850? I don't really know the difference between nVidia and ATI, is it really important?

Thanks again for the help.

Edit: I wasn't really planning on having more than one HDD. What kind of graphics card do you have, tiraides? It was too long for the case? The Elite 341 is definitely a great, cheaper alternative although I have to admit the Silverstone case looks quite a bit nicer. :/
 
Most (if not all) of the XFX power supplies are actually built by Seasonic, which is a quality PSU manufacturer. Several hardware review sites, most notably JonnyGURU and the [H], have positively reviewed various XFX models in the past.

While the TJ08 can fit longer cards -- to answer your question, I currently have the GTX 570 -- it becomes a tight fit when the video card and the hard drive have to use the same limited space for their cables to connect. The Elite 341 places one of the hard drives on the bottom of the case, and unlike the Silverstone case, you can actually use the two 3.5" drive bays without having to remove the drive covers.

A mid-range video card like the HD 6870 or the GTX 460 (1GB non-SE model) is the minimum we recommend for gaming at decent frame rates at a 1920x1080 resolution. As MMOs like Eve Online normally have lower graphical standards, one of those two cards would be enough. Unless the game is specifically optimized for better performance with Nvidia cards, they aren't a requirement.

But rather than talk some more, go with the following instead:

$110 - AMD Phenom II X4 840
$275 - Gigabyte GA-880GMA-UD2H & Gigabyte GV-N460OC-1GI GTX 460 1GB combo
$40 - G.Skill Value Series 4GB DDR3 1333 DIMM
$40 - Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKS 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s HDD
$20 - Sony Optiarc AD-7260S-0B SATA DVD burner
$80 - Antec TruePower New TP-650 650W PSU
$36 - Cooler Master Elite 341
$100 - Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
=====
$701 - Subtotal (not including shipping, taxes, or rebates)

I compromised on the processor and case to fit the 1GB GTX 460 and Windows 7 within your self-imposed $700 limit, but you won't suffer any performance decrease in Eve Online. I found a combo deal on the video card (with a much better motherboard) and some reduced prices on the case and hard drive (larger capacity for a bit less) via Amazon. The TP-650 is a much better quality PSU than the BP550, but it's not 100% modular (the power cables are permanently attached). I also recommend picking up a couple of additional case fans for the Elite 341; you can find some cheap Yate Loons over at Jab-Tech.

Oh, and take Danny's advice on the monitor.
 
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chrissphinx said:
Thanks a lot for the ideas, Danny. I'm really wondering about that XFX PSU, though. It's gotten worse reviews than the Antec and less reviews as well. Is the Antec PSU really that bad? There are a few reviewers using it in gaming builds ...
Click to expand...
Yes for the price that Antec is really that bad. This is the one piece of advice that I do not recommend ignoring: Don't go with that Antec PSU.
chrissphinx said:
I've seen the Ripjaws in a lot of builds, but I'm worried the "jaws" will get in the way of some of the other components (optical drive or HDD). Would this stick be more or less the same thing?
Click to expand...
Yeah basically the same thing. Oh and I do not recommend dropping the CPU down.

chrissphinx said:
I had also chosen an nVidia card because CCP (the company that makes Eve) works very close with the company and I feel that their game would run a bit better on an nVidia board. I don't really know if this is the case. The GTX 460 768MB was getting satisfactory frame rates running at 1680x1050 so I may have to consider that to reduce the cost. What about this XFX HD 6850? I don't really know the difference between nVidia and ATI, is it really important?
Click to expand...

Yeah I haven't seen ANYTHING showing that Eve Online runs faster on Nvidia cards. For reference: I do have the HD 6850 1GB and I'm runnning three Eve Online clients at the same time, two of which is always displayed/shown/active/open at 1680x1050 at max settings. No issue here.

In any case, the XFX HD 6850 1GB card you chose is too expensive at $193 shipped. Shouldn't cost more than $180, maybe $185. As far as Nvidia VS AMD goes, that's just a whole nother thread atogether. As a VERY general statement, AMD generally has the better bang for the buck value whereas Nvidia tends to be a bit more useful for those who use Adobe products. The GTX 460 768MB happens to be one of the few bang for the buck Nvidia cards out there. But above the GTX 460 768MB's price range is where Nvidia really starts losing their bang for the buck value.

EDIT: Although that mobo + GPU combo deal does make the GTX 460 1GB a pretty good buy.
 
chrissphinx said:
Thanks a lot for the ideas, Danny. I'm really wondering about that XFX PSU, though. It's gotten worse reviews than the Antec and less reviews as well. Is the Antec PSU really that bad? There are a few reviewers using it in gaming builds ...
Click to expand...

Actually, the Basiq is Antec's crappiest PSU line (quality-wise). In addition, that 550W unit provides too little total +12V capacity (only 32A combined) for most of the modern gaming graphics cards. Plus, at $68 shipped it is way overpriced for its quality and performance; IMHO it is worth only about $35.
 
Two Builds

$1000 Build
$190 - Intel Core i5-2400 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz
$105 - BIOSTAR TH67+ LGA 1155 Intel H67 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX
$40 - G.SKILL NS 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
$210 (before $20 MIR) - SAPPHIRE 100314SR Radeon HD 6870 1GB
$40 - Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKX 500GB 7200 RPM
$20 - LG DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model GH24NS50
$60 (before $10 MIR) - COOLER MASTER HAF 912
$89 (before $30 MIR) - XFX P1-650X-CAH9 650W
$100 - Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit OEM
$150 - Acer G235HAbd 23''

Subtotal: $1003.90
Shipping (to 49001): $22.28
Discounts from Promo Codes (EMCKFKJ24 and EMCKGGJ34): $5.45
Total: $1020.73
Total after Mail in Rebates: $960.73

Note: you cannot overclock with this build.

$800 Build (I can make a $700 build but I'm much more comfortable recommending one that's $800 when you need an OS and monitor, and want to game at 1080p.)

$144 - AMD Athlon II X4 640 Propus 3.0GHz and BIOSTAR A770E3 Motherboard
$40 - G.SKILL NS 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
$165 (before $20 MIR) - HIS H685F1GD Radeon HD 6850 1GB
$40 - Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKX 500GB 7200 RPM
$20 - LG DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model GH24NS50
$40 - NZXT GAMMA Classic Series GAMA-001BK
$89 (before $30 MIR) - XFX P1-650X-CAH9 650W
$100 - Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit OEM
$150 - Acer G235HAbd 23''

Subtotal: $787.91
Shipping: $29.72
Discounts from Promo Codes (EMCKFKJ24 and EMCKGGJ34): $5.41
Total: $812.22
Total after Mail in Rebates: $762.22

With the second build you can get a better graphics card, motherboard (like one that has support for future AM3+ CPUs,) a larger hard drive, a nicer case, or a better processor.

Your best bet is probably somewhere in between since you're only playing Eve Online and planning on Portal 2. If you were planning on Battlefield 3 or other future games, I would go with the $1000 build. However, I doubt Portal 2 will be significantly more demanding than TF2 and should run pretty well on the $800 build(watch me eat my words after it comes out.) The first thing I'd change in the $800 build is putting a 6870 in it. Then the processor.
 
Last edited:
If you're a student and have a .edu then you can get Win 7 Pro for $30.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1598054

Also if you can stretch your budget to include a 2GB HD 6950 card for around $240 AR. You can unlock it to a HD 6970, just get the same ones where other people are successful with the unlocking. You'll get a top tier video card, future proof you for a few months.
 
jalaj said:
If you're a student and have a .edu then you can get Win 7 Pro for $30.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1598054
Click to expand...

Wow! Thank you so much for this info, this will save me $70 on this build, great!

I think you've all talked me out of the Silverstone case and I'll definitely go with the Elite 341. Some of the reviews of the XFX PSU's fan problems worry me. Is the Antec PSU that tiraides recommended still acceptable? I can get it with this 1680x1050 monitor free shipping so I might purchase at least these two first. The case is a bit cheaper through Amazon so I will likely order that up soon as well.

As far as the mobo, GPU and CPU I'm still considering the choices. The combo deal tiraides mentioned looks great, but the Gigabyte video card is getting some horrible reviews. Sounds like it doesn't have very good stock cooling. The combo tonytnnt mentions is really cheap, but not very confident about Biostar boards.

Thanks very much for all these builds so far, I have a lot of options to consider.
 
chrissphinx said:
Is the Antec PSU that tiraides recommended still acceptable?
Click to expand...

Yes. The True Power New line is of much better quality than the Basiq line. However, the True Power New is a hybrid (partially modular) rather than a truly modular unit: Only some of the cables are detachable while some others are permanently hardwired.
 
tiraides said:
$40 - Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKS 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s HDD
Click to expand...

Is this cheaper than Newegg's because it's OEM/Bulk and does not include mounting screws or cable? Or does any internal drive I buy not include those?

Edit: got the case coming via Amazon for $44.93
 
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chrissphinx said:
Is this cheaper than Newegg's because it's OEM/Bulk and does not include mounting screws or cable?
Click to expand...

Pretty much. But cases often comes with mounting scews and the motherboard usually comes with enough SATA cables to start with.
 
$80 - GIGABYTE GA-880GM-D2H AM3 AMD 880G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
$140 - AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz
$230 - XFX HD-687A-ZNFC Radeon HD 6870 1GB PCI-E Video Card
$160 - Acer V233HAJbd Black 23" Widescreen LCD Monitor
$42 - Western Digital WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$20 - Sony Optiarc AD-7260S-0B SATA DVD burner
$80 - Antec TruePower New TP-650 650W PSU
$40 - G.SKILL Value Series 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333

I think this is my final build, with the case coming from Amazon for $44.93 and Win7 with an educational discount for $30 that's a total of $874.14 including shipping. Maybe get a few bucks off with the before mentioned promo codes.

About to pull the trigger on this, anyone see anything wrong? I'm wondering if I'll be able to Crossfire the XFX card with the onboard chipset? Doesn't really matter if not, just curious.

Edit: went ahead and ordered. Saved $20 with promo codes for the PSU and CPU.
$854.14 including shipping total. Again, thanks to everyone that helped, wouldn't have done it w/o you. I'll put up pictures/vids once I start building it. Wish me luck!
 
Last edited:
chrissphinx said:
Um, reading more about this and it seems like I would need a previous version of Windows to use it? I am a Mac user and do not have any copy of Windows available, does this mean I will need to buy the retail full version?

If so this is a bummer. :(
Click to expand...

If you hadn't pulled the trigger on the build so soon, you could have added a System Builder copy of Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit for about half the price of a full (non-upgrade) retail-boxed copy of that same OS.
 
E4g1e said:
If you hadn't pulled the trigger on the build so soon, you could have added a System Builder copy of Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit for about half the price of a full (non-upgrade) retail-boxed copy of that same OS.
Click to expand...

I could still do this as it's shipping for free, but if the student version will somehow work installing on a system without a previous OS I'd like to do that.

$200 for an OS? Holy shit.
 
There are one key advantage to using a retail version of the OS: You can transfer the retail OS license key from computer to computer, provided that it's activated on only one system at a time. The OEM license key is bound to the first computer it's activated on and is supposed to die when the system dies.
 
tiraides said:
There are one key advantage to using a retail version of the OS: You can transfer the retail OS license key from computer to computer, provided that it's activated on only one system at a time. The OEM license key is bound to the first computer it's activated on and is supposed to die when the system dies.
Click to expand...

Ah, do you know if I will be able to transfer the student upgrade key from system to system? In case my motherboard takes a shit?
 
chrissphinx said:
Ah, do you know if I will be able to transfer the student upgrade key from system to system? In case my motherboard takes a shit?
Click to expand...

Technically no, you can't move it. It's OEM upgrade IIRC.

With that said, a call to MS explaining that your mobo took a shit will sort things out.
 
Well I'm all finished, have it up & running. Minecraft looks great at 1080p. :cool:

Here is the album on FB if you'd like to take a look.

I wanna thank you all again, especially Danny Bui, for the advice as I wouldn't have been able to do this so smoothly without you guys. You're all awesome!
 
well, this PC has been running pretty well so far. However, I seem to be having occasional BSoD usually when attempting to wake the system from sleep (either having slept itself after being idle, or by me). My first guess would be the RAM as I just had a similar problem with my Mac, but I'm really unsure about this.

Does anyone have any guesses as to what this could be? The system is still very much stock and unless Minecraft is really straining it, I'm not sure if there's something I could be doing to cause this. Any help would be appreciated!
 
actually it seems what will happen when I sleep it myself that waking it will not work and a restart is necessary. The mouse and keyboard remain unpowered and there is no video output even though the CPU fan is kicked up quite high. Wondering if I'm having a power issue or maybe the graphics card? hah I'm pretty clueless as to what's going on
 
chrissphinx said:
actually it seems what will happen when I sleep it myself that waking it will not work and a restart is necessary. The mouse and keyboard remain unpowered and there is no video output even though the CPU fan is kicked up quite high. Wondering if I'm having a power issue or maybe the graphics card? hah I'm pretty clueless as to what's going on
Click to expand...

Someone with more knowledge than me may be along to help you but, if not, you may also want to start a separate thread asking for help diagnosing a "sleep" issue. My guess (and it is just a guess as I am no expert) is that it has something to do with your settings in the BIOS. Did it just "start happening" or has it always had trouble waking from sleep?
 
since I have put it together, yes, it has never woken up from sleep properly. It's really weird, the CPU fan goes crazy but the monitor just says "no signal" and stays black. The keyboard and mouse are still powered, really puzzling. I will try looking at the BIOS but it is default. Maybe there is something in there about sleep
 
okay in the BIOS there was an option to sleep to Power On or sleep to RAM (S1 or S3). It was set to S3 so I changed it after loading fail-safe defaults. Weirdly, this gave me an option to "Hibernate" in the windows menu which was not there previously. It will wake from sleep if it gets keyboard/mouse input, but I have to push the power button to get it to come back up from hibernating (I think this is how it should work).

I think it may have been trying to hibernate because the power light would NOT pulse, however double-checking in the power options shows that it will sleep after 30m and it will NEVER hibernate.

I think it may be working now, maybe someone knows the difference between S3 and S1?? Thanks for the suggestion though, Beto!
 
ah, cool thanks for the information Danny. At any rate, the BIOS change seems to have fixed the problem. Thanks for assistance again!
 
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