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Leaving Drobo for WHS?

C

camflan

n00b
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
21
I've maxed out my FW800 Drobo and was thinking about moving to a DroboPro for the capacity + speed bump and iSCSI to use with my iMac. However, I'd really like to move all the server duties off my iMac to another machine so that it can go to sleep at night and save power.

This is going to be primarily a media/file server. I'll be using DLNA for my PS3 and Plex Media Server for transcoding to the Macs, iPads and iPhones both locally and when out of the house. It will also run SickBeard, CouchPotato, SABNZBD+ and some other personal web apps.

I'd like to make this an ESXI or HyperV server - WHS for FlexRAID/Media and Ubuntu for the web apps - but that requires a Xeon, correct?

I originally wanted to go for a 12-bay rack mount ZFS configuration, but I can't make that happen right now. I can't afford adding capacity in 6 or 10 drive blocks at this point and noise issues also became a concern. Now I'm thinking that a WHS with FlexRAID is the way to go, I love adding drives as I need them without worrying about brand/speed/capacity. I want protection against drive failures without losing data, appropriate data backup for stuff I cannot lose has already been considered and been in place for years, so redundancy is taken care of. The data on this machine, if lost, is no big deal.

Here is the current configuration that I'm considering, it seems to be about as good of a $/performance ratio as I can get while getting 10 drives in the same box. My current 27" i3 iMac handles my load now just fine, which is about 4 HD streams transcoding via PMS simultaneously or a couple HD transcodings and PS3 Media Server on top of all the regular iTunes/WebServer/Chrome/Etc so I'm thinking this should be pretty solid.

- Fractal Design Define XL Black $159.99
- BIOSTAR TH67A+ $89.99
- Rosewill RC-211 SATA Card $29.99
- Seasonic SS-560KM $126.99
- Intel Core i3-2100 $124.99
- Kingston HyperX 4 x 2GB (8GB) $69.99
- Corsair Force F40 (Boot Drive) $84.99
- Windows Home Server $53.02

$739 subtotal on NewEgg​

I have 7 WD Caviar Green Drives (1 and 2 TBs) to shove in this thing.



What do you guys think? Can I get ESXi/HyperV going for about the same price? Is it worth it?

Maybe you see where I'm spending too much for no gain?
 
camflan said:
I'd like to make this an ESXI or HyperV server - WHS for FlexRAID/Media and Ubuntu for the web apps - but that requires a Xeon, correct?
Click to expand...
Yes and no: I've seen some people use regular consumer grade hardware for their ESXi and Hyper V setups. You just gotta stick with proven setups. Often times those setups tend to be older gen hardware. Though for Hyper V, should be fine with most consumer grade hardware.

camflan said:
- Fractal Design Define XL Black $159.99​
Click to expand...

If your goal is only 10 drives, not 14 to 15, a bit overpriced at $180 shipped.
$60 - NZXT Source 210 Elite ATX Case
$25 - Cooler Master STB-3T4-E3-GP 4 in 3 Device Module w/ 120mm Fan
---
Total: $85 shipped.

That case already supports 8 drives right off the bat. Adding that 4in3 device module adds another 4 drives for a total of 12 drives. Less than half the price and roughly 85% of the storage capability of that Fractal Design case (assuming that you add a 4in3 module to that case as well)
camflan said:
- BIOSTAR TH67A+ $89.99
- Rosewill RC-211 SATA Card $29.99
Click to expand...
I'll have to come back and comment on this later. Not exactly right in my eyes.
camflan said:
- Seasonic SS-560KM $126.99
Click to expand...
This PSU is more than enough for your needs. With that said, note the shipping costs of ~$11 which makes that PSU around $138 shipped. Not a good buy when the larger and equal quality (at least) Seasonic X-650 costs $8 more:
$146 - Seasonic X650 Gold 650W Modular PSU

Still completely overkill but a significantly better bang for the buck than that Seasonic 560W PSU. However if you don't need gold rating but still want modular cales, you could drop the PSU down to this:
$106 - SeaSonic M12II 620 Bronze 620W Modular PSU

If you don't need modular cables or gold rating, you could drop your PSU down to this:
$58 - Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W PSU

Yes that 520W PSU will be enough. Though if you want to spend more money for a little ease of mind (I'd certainly would):
$73 - Antec NEO ECO 620C 620W PSU
$85 - Corsair 650TX V2 650W PSU

camflan said:
- Kingston HyperX 4 x 2GB (8GB) $69.99
Click to expand...
Definitely overpriced. You can get an 8GB set for $44:
$44 - G.Skill Value Series F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM

camflan said:
- Corsair Force F40 (Boot Drive) $84.99
Click to expand...
Not seeing it for $85 on Newegg. Though even if it was, I'd still spend the extra money for a more reliable and faster SSD:
$115 - Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SSD​
 
Danny Bui said:
Yes and no: I've seen some people use regular consumer grade hardware for their ESXi and Hyper V setups. You just gotta stick with proven setups. Often times those setups tend to be older gen hardware. Though for Hyper V, should be fine with most consumer grade hardware.
Click to expand...

Cool, I'll explore Hyper V - might just dump it for a WHS only setup.

Danny Bui said:
If your goal is only 10 drives, not 14 to 15, a bit overpriced at $180 shipped.
$60 - NZXT Source 210 Elite ATX Case
$25 - Cooler Master STB-3T4-E3-GP 4 in 3 Device Module w/ 120mm Fan
---
Total: $85 shipped.

That case already supports 8 drives right off the bat. Adding that 4in3 device module adds another 4 drives for a total of 12 drives. Less than half the price and roughly 85% of the storage capability of that Fractal Design case (assuming that you add a 4in3 module to that case as well)
Click to expand...

I'll admit, the case was a splurge - I love that case, especially the side-loading HDD bays. But for half price, I'm liking that NZXT more and more.

Danny Bui said:
I'll have to come back and comment on this later. Not exactly right in my eyes.
Click to expand...

I'd love to hear why. The Rosewill card might be junk - I'm thinking I just need some more SATA ports.

Danny Bui said:
PSUs
Click to expand...

Awesome, great info. thanks!

Danny Bui said:
Definitely overpriced. You can get an 8GB set for $44:
$44 - G.Skill Value Series F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM
Click to expand...

I didn't see those when I looked, I wondered why the ram was so expensive.

Danny Bui said:
Not seeing it for $85 on Newegg. Though even if it was, I'd still spend the extra money for a more reliable and faster SSD:
$115 - Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SSD
Click to expand...

Good to know


thanks again!
 
camflan said:
I'd love to hear why. The Rosewill card might be junk - I'm thinking I just need some more SATA ports.
Click to expand...
Well the "junk" factor is a concern but the other concern is that Rosewill + Biostar would only net you 8 drives when my proposed setup allows for 12 hard drives and a SSD (you can place a SSD anywhere you want in the case). So you would need a 8 Port storage controller at that point. However, I'm trying to remember a source for a good quality and up to date 8 Port SATA controller for cheap. The other oddness is paying $100 for a Biostar mobo. I generally recommend Biostar mobos when they're under $70. Rarely do I recommend them above that price point since there's often better quality, higher tier motherboard manufacturers, or better warranty above that price point than Biostar.

camflan said:
Now I'm thinking this case, for the same price as the other NZXT + cage. I can add the cage to it down the road for 12 drives total.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146072
Click to expand...
Unfortunately due to the huge emphasis on noise reduction, its cooling performance is sub-optimal for that many hard drives, even with extensive modding.
 
Danny Bui said:
Well the "junk" factor is a concern but the other concern is that Rosewill + Biostar would only net you 8 drives when my proposed setup allows for 12 hard drives and a SSD (you can place a SSD anywhere you want in the case). So you would need a 8 Port storage controller at that point. However, I'm trying to remember a source for a good quality and up to date 8 Port SATA controller for cheap. The other oddness is paying $100 for a Biostar mobo. I generally recommend Biostar mobos when they're under $70. Rarely do I recommend them above that price point since there's often better quality, higher tier motherboard manufacturers, or better warranty above that price point than Biostar.


Unfortunately due to the huge emphasis on noise reduction, its cooling performance is sub-optimal for that many hard drives, even with extensive modding.
Click to expand...

Understood, thanks
 
Danny Bui said:
Unfortunately due to the huge emphasis on noise reduction, its cooling performance is sub-optimal for that many hard drives, even with extensive modding.
Click to expand...

Ehh, that really depends.

The 5600rpm drives dont get very hot, especially his green drives.

That case looks like a very good deal, go for it.
 
leeleatherwood said:
Ehh, that really depends.

The 5600rpm drives dont get very hot, especially his green drives.

That case looks like a very good deal, go for it.
Click to expand...

They will get hot if there's little to no air going through or around. That's the problem with the H2 case: It's starving for air.
 
DB is correct. If you took the front cover off, the case would be fine. However, with it closed...ugh. Furthermore, with it closed, I would expect it to be negative pressure and thus suck dust in..double ugh.
 
Trepidati0n said:
DB is correct. If you took the front cover off, the case would be fine. However, with it closed...ugh. Furthermore, with it closed, I would expect it to be negative pressure and thus suck dust in..double ugh.
Click to expand...

How about that Fractal case? I'm OK with splurging a bit on the case, there's a good chance that it will end up under the TV for now until we move out of this apartment.
 
camflan said:
1. Fractal Design Define XL Black $159.99
2. BIOSTAR TH67A+ $89.99
3. Rosewill RC-211 SATA Card $29.99
4. Seasonic SS-560KM $126.99
5. Intel Core i3-2100 $124.99
6. Kingston HyperX 4 x 2GB (8GB) $69.99
7. Corsair Force F40 (Boot Drive) $84.99
8. Windows Home Server $53.02

$739 subtotal on NewEgg
Click to expand...

My suggestion would be:

1. grab a cheaper case and spend more on some large 3TB drives and a sata card
2. pick another mb as this has no reviews on newegg yet, some better brands out there
3. see 1.
4. go with a cheaper seasonic build power supply, or even an ea380 or cx430
5. intel has now released sandy bridge celerons and pentiums that have near the same performance and consume less power, i would get a get a g530, g620, or g620t if I were you since they are quite a bit cheaper and will do the job easy
6. grab some cheap gskill memory for 40-50
7. grab an m4 like suggested or an intel ssd
8. looks good :D
 
camflan said:
How about that Fractal case? I'm OK with splurging a bit on the case, there's a good chance that it will end up under the TV for now until we move out of this apartment.
Click to expand...
You'd have to buy another 140mm fan for the lower hard drive bay as that lower hard drive, where a majority of the hard drives will be, doesn't have any active cooling. So if you're gonna splurge, definitely get another 140mm fan.

Although I gotta say: Seems like an awful waste of money.
 
You should to be absolutely sure that the cooler master module bay works before you commit. That thing doesnt even work on all cooler master cases yet alone one of a different manufacture. Maybe I'm out of the loop and it works on every case for the exception of a few cooler master cases, I don't know. Just thought I'd mention it. I have no idea about what limits its use.
 
BurntToast said:
You should to be absolutely sure that the cooler master module bay works before you commit. That thing doesnt even work on all cooler master cases yet alone one of a different manufacture. Maybe I'm out of the loop and it works on every case for the exception of a few cooler master cases, I don't know. Just thought I'd mention it. I have no idea about what limits its use.
Click to expand...

I've used on different cases before like Antecs and even an Apevia case. . It was probably just those few Coolermaster cases.
 
Danny Bui said:
You'd have to buy another 140mm fan for the lower hard drive bay as that lower hard drive, where a majority of the hard drives will be, doesn't have any active cooling. So if you're gonna splurge, definitely get another 140mm fan.

Although I gotta say: Seems like an awful waste of money.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, I'm going to pick up that NXZT case and try the coolermaster drive bay

and ideas on a reasonable SATA card?
 
camflan said:
and ideas on a reasonable SATA card?
Click to expand...
An older card but far better bang for the buck than that Rosewill
$65 - IBM System X ServeRAID BR10I SAS/SATA Controller w/ Full Height PCI bracket option selected
$30 - 2 x 3ware SFF-8087 to Multi-lane SATA Forward Break-out Cable
---
Total: $95 plus tax and shipping.

Gives you 8 SATA ports as well as better performance.
 
Danny Bui said:
An older card but far better bang for the buck than that Rosewill
$65 - IBM System X ServeRAID BR10I SAS/SATA Controller w/ Full Height PCI bracket option selected
$30 - 2 x 3ware SFF-8087 to Multi-lane SATA Forward Break-out Cable
---
Total: $95 plus tax and shipping.

Gives you 8 SATA ports as well as better performance.
Click to expand...

That's pretty sweet - I'm guessing you like that more than the PROMISE card I just posted?
 
camflan said:
Revised setup. Thoughts?


Click to expand...

I think you should get the H2 case. It has the hot swap bay at the top that you can use for the OS drive, plus it looks better. Yes it costs more but you can save money by going with a Rosewill HIVE PSU, read the reviews around the internet its basically a rebadged OCZ PSU.

By using the H2 case you can have 8 drives on the inside (+4 if you use the coolermaster dock) and then use the top hot swap bay for the OS drive and not have to worry about it taking up a slot inside the case for the mass storage, pretty sweet and this will be my setup soon.

http://www.overclock.net/power-supplies/1105100-rosewill-hive-650w-modular-possibly-best.html
 
Last edited:
camflan said:
That's pretty sweet - I'm guessing you like that more than the PROMISE card I just posted?
Click to expand...

Yup I like it waaay better than the Promise card you just posted.Unlike the Promise card, the BR10i is PCI-E based which means that you're gonna get a huge increase in performance over that Promise card due its PCI interface. Then there's the better price per port.

So overall, don't get that Promise card.

Also, don't get the H2 case. Unless leeleatherwood or anyone else has evidence showing that 8 hard drives will be cooled well within that case, I do not recommend it.
 
Im pretty sure a single Radeon 4870 puts out WAY more heat than 12 5900rpm green drives. Silent PC did a review on the H2 with a 4870 and a Phenom 955.

He is going to be using a Celeron CPU with green drives, he will be fine.
 
leeleatherwood said:
Im pretty sure a single Radeon 4870 puts out WAY more heat than 12 5900rpm green drives. Silent PC did a review on the H2 with a 4870 and a Phenom 955.

He is going to be using a Celeron CPU with green drives, he will be fine.
Click to expand...

Again, it's not a matter of heat. It's a matter of cooling. Many reviews have pointed out the lack of air that case has.
 
Danny Bui said:
Again, it's not a matter of heat. It's a matter of cooling. Many reviews have pointed out the lack of air that case has.
Click to expand...

Again if the case can suffeciently cooler a gaming system with a Radein 4870 it should be able to cool some green drives.

Besides google did a publication/research on hard drive failures and heat does not affect the life of the drive unless it is absurdly hot.

Google's temperature research found an equally surprising result: "Failures do not increase when the average temperature increases. In fact, there is a clear trend showing that lower temperatures are associated with higher failure rates. Only at very high temperatures is there a slight reversal of this trend," the authors of the study found.
Click to expand...

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/google-hard-drives,4347.html
 
leeleatherwood said:
Again if the case can suffeciently cooler a gaming system with a Radein 4870 it should be able to cool some green drives.
Click to expand...
The HD 4870 reached a full 87C in the SPCR review of the H2 case. That is not sufficient cooling.
leeleatherwood said:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/google-hard-drives,4347.html[/url]
Click to expand...
Now that's more of what I wanted to see. All right fair enough: those drives may be fine in that case as long as the OP keeps that door open. Still won't recommend it though.
 
The AMD designed cooler on the 4870 takes inside air at one end, and blows hot air out of the case at the other end, so even in a case with no ventilation at all, it creates its own airflow. A hard drive can't do that.
 
Danny
Question regarding Biostar MBs
They now have a 3 year warranty
Is your concern about reliability or something else
I am thinking of getting one for a sandybridge build with moderate OC 4.4 GHz
 
aviat72 said:
Danny
Question regarding Biostar MBs
They now have a 3 year warranty
Is your concern about reliability or something else
I am thinking of getting one for a sandybridge build with moderate OC 4.4 GHz
Click to expand...

My concern is quality.
 
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