Least expensive 10gb switch?

Discussion in 'Networking & Security' started by Joust, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. Joust

    Joust 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,933
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    I've been about a 10gb switch for the home network. They are quite expensive, evidently. Anyone away of or use a 10gb switch appropriate for humble, poor people?
     
  2. Spartacus09

    Spartacus09 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,066
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2018
    How many 10g capable ports are needed? And do you need 10g ethernet or SFP+?
     
  3. Joust

    Joust 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,933
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Ethernet only. Like, 6 ports. Or 8.
     
  4. Krixon

    Krixon Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    372
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2015
    I'm not aware of any switches that are both cheap (under $200) and have more than two 10gb ethernet ports. 10gbps networking hardware is still in a bit of a gray area for consumers and can be far more complicated than 1gbps. If you're willing to get your hands dirty, 10gbps is achievable.

    Now, as far as getting to 10gbps cheaply - the method I've been recommending to people is an SFP+ pcie card for each device (like one from 10Gtek or something that uses the x520 intel chipset) and a this Mikrotik Switch, though it only has 4 10gbps ports. You'll want to run fiber or a compatible 10gbps SFP+ DAC. You won't quite have the throughput of something more expensive from Cisco or even the relatively cheap Ubiquiti, but it's likely that your local traffic wouldn't saturate those devices anyhow. Here's a video that recommends basically the same setup:



    Even if you decide to stick with Ethernet, you might have to re-run your cabling depending on the length of your runs. Technically, CAT 6A is usually the recommended standard for a 10gbps network, but 6 and even 5e have been known to work on especially short distances.

    Edit: If you're determined to get the cheapest 10gbps switch with 8 ethernet ports, this is pretty much the cheapest, unless you can score something used on ebay.

    Sorry if this isn't quite the information you wanted, but the path to 10gbps home networking isn't quite as simple as hopping over to Best Buy quite yet.
     
  5. Spartacus09

    Spartacus09 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,066
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  6. Joust

    Joust 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,933
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    I've run a bunch of cat6. I think, unfortunately, I'll be stick on gigabit a while longer. 10gb nics add up as well.

    I do appreciate all the input, however. Hopefully someone else considering switching over will find it instructive as well.
     
  7. EniGmA1987

    EniGmA1987 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    231
    Joined:
    May 2, 2017
    FrgMstr likes this.
  8. Ranulfo

    Ranulfo [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,599
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
  9. OFaceSIG

    OFaceSIG [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    2,020
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
  10. Spartacus09

    Spartacus09 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,066
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2018
  11. OFaceSIG

    OFaceSIG [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    2,020
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Unless you have multiple VLANs, or need multiple vlans I don't personally see the need for managed switches.
     
    FrgMstr likes this.
  12. Spartacus09

    Spartacus09 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,066
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2018
    If I paid over $500 for a networking device I better be able to monitor the thing.
     
    /dev/null likes this.
  13. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

    Messages:
    48,356
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
    Think I paid $600 for my first 1Gb switch, and it was as dumb as it gets.
     
  14. boushidosan

    boushidosan Gawd

    Messages:
    547
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
  15. OFaceSIG

    OFaceSIG [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    2,020
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Dude that thing is going to be loud, huge and complicated. Unless you have a way to hide this thing no way I'd run this in a house.
     
    boushidosan likes this.
  16. boushidosan

    boushidosan Gawd

    Messages:
    547
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
    I did mention those points.
     
  17. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,608
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Why does it seem like 10gbit ethernet should be common place as it is pennies on the dollar to implement the circuitry onto motherboards? It seems as if we are paying a premium for something that should be as common as a cheap ass TPLink switch on a Microcenter ghetto clearance shelf.

    With the common place of NVMe and the fact I literally just read an aritcle that SATA is going the way of the dodo because of the massive push for all NVMe devices it would seem that 1g switching should also go the way of the dodo. Between my two PCs using NVMe drives I can fully saturate my Cisco 10gb links on my 4948-10GE switch.

    I really want to get the Unifi XG-16 and would rather have the XG-6 as I do not need that much 10G switching but it makes no sense why the 6 port cost as much as the 16 port. Im on the ropes about ordering a switch because it would complete my home Unify ecosystem completely.
     
  18. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    11,674
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Well, it is commonplace, just not in SOHO/consumer environments. But it's 10Gbit fiber ethernet, not copper.

    The big issue is that 10Gbit copper isn't cheap, in terms of adapters or switches- and while CAT6a isn't so much more expensive itself, it is certainly more difficult to pull.

    On the other hand, 'Multi-Gig', i.e. 2.5Gbit and 5Gbit over copper, is most certainly coming to SOHO, consumer, and enterprise hardware. We might have to step through Multi-Gig before we see widespread adoption of 10Gbase-T.
     
  19. EniGmA1987

    EniGmA1987 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    231
    Joined:
    May 2, 2017
    But the thing is, it doesnt make sense why 10gb copper isnt cheap. The copper ethernet cables that do it are dirt cheap, and the copper traces in motherboards cost no more money to do than 1gb ethernet. And as tangoseal said, NVME uses more transistors on a die and copper on a board than 10gb eth does. So why do we get 3-4 nvme spots on a MB within a year of the format being released, yet putting 10gb eth on a board makes them charge 10x as much as something that actually does cost more to make?
     
  20. boushidosan

    boushidosan Gawd

    Messages:
    547
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
    It might have something to do with the fact that storage in the past couple of years is leaps and bounds better and so is networking technology. We may see higher jumps then just 10-gig being implemented. That and the fact that new thunderbolt and USB coming out has higher bandwidth anyway you might be able to get cheaper shity external nics. But this is just me speculating and I don't know shitt about how they decide what to put in boards.

    I would like to see more motherboard manufacturers dedicating modular ports on motherboards to switch out daughter boards for nice like in a lot of servers. That would be hot
     
  21. Spartacus09

    Spartacus09 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,066
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2018
    Many do have modular ports its called SFP+ :p.

    Part of the issue is the market demand for it, the majority of business are demanding/using 10Gb fiber instead of copper due to it's signal flexibility with transceivers, DAC low cost capability, ability to traverse longer distances, and the reduced latency vs copper (by about 10x).
    I saw 10g copper alot more frequently about 4-5 years ago, I only see a select few that are copper now'a days and they're often on lower end equipment or costs more than the SFP+/QSFP+ counterpart.
    More production normally equals less cost.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
    schizrade likes this.
  22. schizrade

    schizrade [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,744
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    lol. I remember getting a 10GB Deathstar for like $300 back in the day. NEVER thought I would fill that up.

    Hell my first computer cost me like $5500.


    As far as 10GbE being uncommon at the endpoint, its because copper 10GbE is uncommon. I have OM3 run around my IT Dept Floor and all the servers are running multiple ports of SR. Its all fiber inthe racks except for legacy iscsi. I have a few Copper 10GbE lines in the racks, but those were used to link Cat4948E's for iscsi duty in 2014, and at the time the coaxial SFP cables were cheaper than SR optics.

    Plus *most* desktops cant even fill that pipe for very long.

    But its cool to see cheaper 10GbE showing up.
     
    BoiseTech likes this.
  23. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,462
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    i am so buying one of those.

    fourth week of April though is the waiting time.

    my infiniband switch is too loud
     
  24. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,608
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    I do remember it was 1997 or so and we used to lan party like it was a crack addiction. Anyways we had been using a 10base Hub for all the parties. Then I saved enough my teenager money and ordered a Dlink 100mbps switch. We were astonished at the speed and latency that switch gave us over the hub we were using. I think I paid about $200 something for it.

    Now I have a (at one time it was $36,000) Cisco 4948-10GE at the top of my rack that you can get on ebay for $130 shipped. It is a mega low latency distro switch with 2 10g ports that actually use lasers for SR as opposed to new day stuff using LEDs.
     
  25. bbenz33

    bbenz33 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    382
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    I paid almost $300 for first Intel 80gb SSD. It seems the more things change the more they stay the same.
     
    BoiseTech likes this.
  26. Spartacus09

    Spartacus09 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,066
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2018
    Mine was the OCZ 30GB and it was about $110, worth every penny (though the thing was finicky as hell).
     
  27. evilpaul

    evilpaul Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    181
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    So the Microtik switch listed above...Would it be possible to put 10gb PCIe x1 adapters into the two PCs I have that need the >1Gbps speed and use the RJ45 passthrough to connect it to a run of the mill 1 Gbps 8 port switch I'm currently using?
     
  28. Spartacus09

    Spartacus09 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,066
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2018
    I believe the RJ45 is primarily for management/inbound power, but could enable routing out the management port (not 100% on this though).
    Worst case you could use a SFP to RJ45 adapter.

    I don't think 10g pcie 1x adapters exist, pretty sure it needs at least a 4x lane for enough bandwidth.
    Overall yes you could use a pcie 10gb SFP+ card with that switch though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  29. evilpaul

    evilpaul Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    181
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
  30. tedych

    tedych Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    372
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    You can use PCI-e x4 cards (or any oher) on "open-slot" PCI-e motherboard pci-e x1 slot, I even used to try 10g x4 card through an (mining) extender that way and it worked Ok for up to about 180MB/s (I believe pci-e 2.0 slot but could be 1.0, can't find info) but the CPU was a severe limiting factor then.
     
  31. EniGmA1987

    EniGmA1987 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    231
    Joined:
    May 2, 2017
  32. Spartacus09

    Spartacus09 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,066
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2018
  33. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    11,674
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Don't seem to have pricing on the Mikrotik...

    Also, be aware that their OS tends to border on arcane, which makes one wonder what it would look like for simpler deployments.