Thatis garbage. A good loop can give you significantly lower temps assuming you have an adequately sized quality radiator. We are talking about stable overclocks under full load, otherwise it is bullshit. I had a Corsair H100 and it was a night and day difference in temps with Swiftech H320 with 360mm copper radiator. Under load the differences become much more apparent. Of course if you dont have the silicon to do a good overclock it won't make a whole lot of difference. But you way overstated your claim. The H100i is no serious competitor to a high quality expandable loop or expandable AIO. Your views completely run against the experience of some of the best overclockers on overclock.net. I do NOT believe you.
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Leaked AMD Ryzen Benchmarks?
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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Thatis garbage. A good loop can give you significantly lower temps assuming you have an adequately sized quality radiator. We are talking about stable overclocks under full load, otherwise it is bullshit. I had a Corsair H100 and it was a night and day difference in temps with Swiftech H320 with 360mm copper radiator. Under load the differences become much more apparent. Of course if you dont have the silicon to do a good overclock it won't make a whole lot of difference. But you way overstated your claim. The H100i is no serious competitor to a high quality expandable loop or expandable AIO. Your views completely run against the experience of some of the best overclockers on overclock.net. I do NOT believe you.
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Your point? Trying to get this thread off topic, as in Ryzen is kicking butt and it is not even out yet.
(Watch someone now claim I said Ryzen will blow away a 6950x and 7700k in all things.)Your point? Trying to get this thread off topic, as in Ryzen is kicking butt and it is not even out yet.
MY point is if AMD is saying they are selling a truck load, don't believe them, it could be more then before, but only because of AMD buyers waiting on AMD products. We will not know actual sales data till independent market research is done.
BeerEngineer
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Embargo lifting soon. Then we will have some real answers..
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I just received the Microcenter email and all I can say is: WOW! An MSI 970 Gaming for $50 and FX8320e for $90. I do not want or need that but, talk about being able to build a cheap, usable computer nowadays.
OrangeKhrush
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Polaris is excusable because it's performance is still good but AMD's focus was more geared towards the future. Polaris was however a good platform to test 14nm and some features that would be adopted on Ryzen and likely Vega. Given that AMD had to pool R&D between Ryzen which is the bread and butter of the Company. I believe the cautious approach to Polaris let AMD deflect to what will inevitably signal the return to profitability and highend markets.
I have no issues with my one RX470, it is a solid Graphics Card for 1080P, and MSI make amazing high end boards.
2 days until Ryzen and a month until Vega is a good time to be in the market, I just feel that there are so many people wanting to buy into AMD and the numbers seem to be that AMD have obliged the people with something worthy of it
I have no issues with my one RX470, it is a solid Graphics Card for 1080P, and MSI make amazing high end boards.
2 days until Ryzen and a month until Vega is a good time to be in the market, I just feel that there are so many people wanting to buy into AMD and the numbers seem to be that AMD have obliged the people with something worthy of it
That's what I said. What's happening with Ryzen wasn't the case with Polaris. May be you didn't understand me there.
Making product to sustain current sales amounts 1 million units is nothing in a month. What is the total volume sales of an entire year in the PC market for CPU? Its in the hundreds of millions of units sold. One million is 1% of that.
AMD has 18% marketshare right? So doesn't even cover that no where near.
Per quarter its like 120 million units sold from both Intel and AMD.
So lets take that and cut down 18%, which is AMD's that is 20 million units per quarter. Where does that 1 million units at launch cover. 5%? It can't cover AMD's total sales, but it will cover the portion they think will impact which are the enthusiasts. That 5%, is is 1% of all total sales, which coincidentally covers the enthusiasts (not coincidence that is their target audience).
Now do you see the problem with only 1 million units being shipped? Well will enthusiasts be up and arms about getting their hands on Ryzen? Its going to come down to what they have right now and what is the cost benefit ratio of switching their entire system over.
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XFR is multi-dimensional in its use. If you are running a single thread game XFR will boost frequency on only 1 core. If you need all cores it will boost all cores. It is an intelligent technology.
Grimlaking
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Well I have used i7 for the past... What.. 10 years, my last amd cpu was a 3200+. And now here I sit on the hook for a new motherboard, cpu, and ram to support an amd refresh. When a month ago it. Was going to be another tired i7 upgrade.
This is high end, top new generation of AMD processors, so 1 million on launch (which to me is what the retailers and system builders will have maybe) is good. The 120 million processors a year, most I say are less then $150. The problem is how many will AMD have for the 6 core and 4 core? And what the hell will the 4 core be? A RyZen 8 core with 4 cores deactivated? What happens when virtually all made processors are good 8 cores or 6 cores?
So after launch, if they are really good, should prompt a good continue demand. Now how many can AMD make through their partners is the question? Can they meet demand if very high? or will there be a long period of shortages and gouging which would turn folks off?
And that's my point what will the cost benefit ratio be and how that will affect total sales. 1 million units is a typical launch of having good amount of stock for a specific target.
Its not just a pure 1 million units is a lot of units, actually its on par with what AMD has always been doing. So if demand goes up from current products, prices will go up, if demand is same as current AMD products, prices stay at MSRP, and if demand goes down from current products prices go down.
Remember this is AMD - when is the last time they sold 1 million CPU's in a very short period of time?
I am sure Intel is laughing it up when the 1 million hint was put forth when Intel does that what? Every 3 days since time began for them . I am hoping Ryzen is as good as we think and that AMD will be able to meet the demand.Lol. Since when everything requires and essay of explanation? I meant to say Ryzen doesnt seem like no polaris. It doesn't have to be a economics lesson everytime. Shit when was the last time AMD preorders were running out at amazon lol? By their standards it's good enough start.
Grimlaking
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Honest to god the smartest move AMD has made with it's vendors is trickling out pre order unlocks. Build that logic into any sale of a new piece of tech and it will sell like hotcakes. Especially with sights like the [H] giving a subtle behind the scenes nod to the new hardware coming out.
When they trickle out the items and make people sit on a page and hit refresh waiting for the preorder button to unlock it is a manipulation. A very effective one. It increases the perception of Demand. If all of those people ordering can't be wrong.
A "false" demand is a powerful tool.. that can EASILY translate into a real demand. But it is a hard act and really needs to be followed by rock solid hardware.
So if this turns into a shell game with demand and availability then a lot of people (like me) will be pissed.
But if it turns into a great thing and prices bump up a bit because the hardware IS that good and demand IS that high.. then I will be ecstatic, It will be the first time EVER I have purchased computer hardware and had it subsequently and near immediately go UP in value!
When they trickle out the items and make people sit on a page and hit refresh waiting for the preorder button to unlock it is a manipulation. A very effective one. It increases the perception of Demand. If all of those people ordering can't be wrong.
A "false" demand is a powerful tool.. that can EASILY translate into a real demand. But it is a hard act and really needs to be followed by rock solid hardware.
So if this turns into a shell game with demand and availability then a lot of people (like me) will be pissed.
But if it turns into a great thing and prices bump up a bit because the hardware IS that good and demand IS that high.. then I will be ecstatic, It will be the first time EVER I have purchased computer hardware and had it subsequently and near immediately go UP in value!
Grimlaking
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Holy shit man I know what you are trying to say, and maybe you were pissed off when you typed it. But here let me fix this for you.
"LOL, since when does everything need to be easy to understand? I meant to say that Ryzen does not seem to be like Polaris. It does not have to be an lesson in economics every time. Shit when was the last time AMD pre-orders were running out of stock on Amazon? LOL. By their standards that is a good enough of a start."
Enjoy!
Because your statement to counter this one,
has a basis of economics that for a math graduate, seems to not look further than just numbers, you are not understanding AMD is doing the same old stuff they have always done, nothing has changed, Yet you seem to project 1 million units is a "HUGE" amount, which no its not! Its normal amount of units being sent out.
Nothing extravagant. So don't try to make it something its not, just because you don't have any experience in economics and the marketplace of CPU sales doesn't mean no one else here does.
You seem to be pretty in the know, and I can't recall ever seeing it, but do you know how many retail processors intel sells per year to end users? I'm guessing it's probably 1% or so of their overall sales, if not less.
How many of the AMD pre-orders so far are retail transactions to end users? Any idea? I think overall numbers mean very little compared to what an enthusiast community is actively seeking out.
Don't know, they don't break down the numbers that way, and we definitely don't know the regional sales of AMD or their shipping amounts per week or bi-weekly, so total of 1 million shipped out, I expect that as a build up of supply for 1 quarter as they ramp up production based on demand on coming quarters. When new products are launched and competition is stiff, a company just doesn't go out and start producing more then their current demand, cause at the end it might hurt them, they test the waters with current levels of demand and then adjust their manufacturing pipelines based on the new figures they are seeing in the marketplace.
Grimlaking
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Guys you can't take "Processor sales" and equate it to Desktop CPU sales. All of these big companies make MILLIONS of processors for all sorts of things from blenders to cell phones, to lightbulbs. So take those numbers with a grain of salt. I think this will be healthy for AMD, from a investor standpoint and a street standpoint. (Meaning you and I.)
Time will tell and reviews will show us a lot too.
Here's to good times for all!
Time will tell and reviews will show us a lot too.
Here's to good times for all!
I was comparing it to polaris. Serisously though 20k number that kyle had mentioned vs 1 million on launch for ryzen. That was my reasoning. Nothing else lol.
And that reasoning is flawed. CPU's and GPU's are totally different markets, you can't even compare it like that. What is the average GPU upgrade time, what is the average CPU upgrade time? What is the volume of sales GPU's among enthusiasts, what is the average volume of CPU sales among enthusiasts. How are the GPU and CPU market segmented and who is purchasing what at what price and what segments?
Its not like the same people that are buying an RX480 will be interested in a Ryzen purchase (they might be but that isn't the target audience at least not yet). More people than a mid range and low end GPU buyer will be interested in Ryzen. Pre order sales are geared toward the enthusiast and targeting, 8 core buyers, so those aren't mid range and low end buyers at all.
Now what I have in my mind what AMD is trying to do, trying to get people to get away from the 4 core Intel systems. They are trying to extend the market for higher core counts. This will ultimately happen, but when and how its the question, because that will play into AMD hands in the long run if Intel isn't able to improve their multi-threaded performance.
And this reasoning explains a lot of why AMD isn't pushing clocks of their lower chips up to their 8 core chips, cause at the end if they did, AMD's goals will not be met, and it will play into Intel's hands if they upped the clocks of their lower core parts. People will still get 4 core parts for gaming cause that is what is all that's needed for the time being.
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OrangeKhrush
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I posted this and I said this is very viable.
1600 was the 3.7Ghz All core max score.
1600 * 4 / 3.7 = 1730~ which is 0.1% MOA depending on RAM config and how well the MOBO supports a 100 FSB or whether if fluctuats below that etc etc.
Okie dokie.
Grimlaking
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I would love to be able to read that image... but nope.
OrangeKhrush
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It was a leaked Ryzen 4Ghz all core overclock CINEBENCH run.
I can read 8 core 16 threads @ 4.00GHz and little more.
You are wrong XFR goes beyond 4.0 GHZ where did you get that notion? It is an intelligent technology. If the program is single thread it can activate only 1 core. If the program is multithreaded, it can overclcok as many cores as are necessary.
Remember this is AMD - when is the last time they sold 1 million CPU's in a very short period of time?
GF #8 is a huge foundry in upstate New York. It can handle Ryzen and VEGA demand without a hiccup.
Keep in mind this is 1 million $300 and up units. That's $300 million+ revenue in a few days (figure they get $250-$400 per R7 depending) and considering their quarterly revenue is around $600 million for compute and graphics, that's half their quarterly compute/graphics revenue. If they sell a million R7's a month and nothing else compute/graphics wise, their quarterly revenue will take a huge (%50+) jump. Not sure what their margin is, but figure they'll still be selling a bunch of other stuff and it should cause a massive revenue increase, on the order of double.
No that isn't their revenue, you need to factor in retail profits as well, slash it down by 50%.
Any case its a balancing act, they can't have too many procs in the channel, or too little, they need to ensure, inventory is good for retailers by their ability to balance their manufacturing amounts and using market sales data to ensure there is enough inventory in their end to adjust the supply and demand curves accordingly.
How about some Ryzen and 1080Ti combo's - promoting AMD but Nvidia takes and eats the cake with extra frosting. This is what I expect from Nvidia, not to sit back - Vega is not here - Hello you new RyZen owners, game like you never have before with the top gaming card in the universe - 1080Ti (Which cost more then the cpu + motherboard + ram of most new Ryzen owners).
Maybe Nvidia was waiting on RyZen launch to usher in the 1080Ti, if true, very smart.
Maybe Nvidia was waiting on RyZen launch to usher in the 1080Ti, if true, very smart.
That is slashed down, the cheapest Ryzen retails for $330 so lop a hundred off each of them and it's still well over $300 million.
All these chips are the same chip, take the average price of all the chips and cut it in half. This isn't factoring the numbers of each chip and volume of each chip, % wise volume will be higher in the lower end chips.
AMD can't cut the retailers short on their products, they need to maintain retailer margins, just as Intel would, otherwise there would be less incentive to sell for the retailers to promote AMD chips.
$100 a chip is a HUGE margin and likely not that much in actuality. I believe the 1800x has been the hottest preseller (looking at top sellers at Amazon) ahead of the 1700X with the 1700 last, so it's exactly opposite to that. The high end is selling more right now, not less.