Latest GTX 560 rumors

Now that we know what the HD 6950 can do, if the GTX 560 is indeed close to the GTX 570 in performance and NVIDIA prices it @ HD 6950 levels, this will be an excellent value, just like the GTX 460 was.
 
Silus said:
Now that we know what the HD 6950 can do, if the GTX 560 is indeed close to the GTX 570 in performance and NVIDIA prices it @ HD 6950 levels, this will be an excellent value, just like the GTX 460 was.
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I seriously doubt the gtx560 will be clocked as high as in the OP and none of what you said really makes sense. the gtx570 will likely still be about 20-25% faster than a gtx560 and most certainly be priced around $250 at the very highest. at 300 bucks it would be nothing like the gtx460 because it will be in a whole other price category.
 
cannondale06 said:
I seriously doubt the gtx560 will be clocked as high as in the OP and none of what you said really makes sense. the gtx570 will likely still be about 20-25% faster than a gtx560 and most certainly be priced around $250 at the very highest. at 300 bucks it would be nothing like the gtx460 because it will be in a whole other price category.
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Well, I haven't seen a single GF104 that didn't reach at the very least 850 Mhz and the tweaks applied to GF114, will surely make that possible across the board too, so I don't see it as unlikely, although I agree that NVIDIA is usually much more conservative, when talking about GPU frequencies.

As for the value, I disagree. 6950 levels means in the ball park - a bit higher or a bit lower - depending on actual performance difference. Being in a different price category, doesn't make it any less of a great value, if the performance isn't really far from the GTX 570. Remember this speculation is about a part clocked @ 875 Mhz. If a GTX 460 @ 850 Mhz already goes past the GTX 470, a fully enabled GF104 @ 875 Mhz should be able to get close to a GTX 480/GTX570.
The only exceptions being heavy tessellation scenarios, where the GF104/GF114 have less polymorph engines to keep up with GF110.
 
Silus said:
Well, I haven't seen a single GF104 that didn't reach at the very least 850 Mhz and the tweaks applied to GF114, will surely make that possible across the board too, so I don't see it as unlikely, although I agree that NVIDIA is usually much more conservative, when talking about GPU frequencies.

As for the value, I disagree. 6950 levels means in the ball park - a bit higher or a bit lower - depending on actual performance difference. Being in a different price category, doesn't make it any less of a great value, if the performance isn't really far from the GTX 570. Remember this speculation is about a part clocked @ 875 Mhz. If a GTX 460 @ 850 Mhz already goes past the GTX 470, a fully enabled GF104 @ 875 Mhz should be able to get close to a GTX 480/GTX570.
The only exceptions being heavy tessellation scenarios, where the GF104/GF114 have less polymorph engines to keep up with GF110.
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plenty of gtx460 cards could only do around 825 without additional voltage. the kind of voltage it took to do 875- 900mhz actually made it surpass the gtx470 power consumption in some case too. plus they are not going to clock the card within an inch of its life like AMD does sometimes.

it took a gtx460 of over 875mhz to consistently beat the gtx470. the gtx570 is about 25% faster than the gtx470 was. so again even if the gtx560 has 384sp and a small bump in frequency, the gtx570 will still be 20-25% faster.

part of the overall value of the gtx460 was that it was and is affordable. pricing the gtx570 at 300 bucks would be insane. that will be nearly twice the price as some of the gtx460 deals we have seen lately. the sweet spot is around 200 bucks and once you get over 250 bucks its in a whole other category.
 
Silus said:
Now that we know what the HD 6950 can do, if the GTX 560 is indeed close to the GTX 570 in performance and NVIDIA prices it @ HD 6950 levels, this will be an excellent value, just like the GTX 460 was.
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$300 would be way too much.
 
I can't see the 560 being reference clocked that high. That would cannibalize the 570 at 1080p and below. And $300 would be too close to the 570s pricing, they would have to come up with another part for the $200 range. The rest of the specs are a given.
 
cannondale06 said:
plenty of gtx460 cards could only do around 825 without additional voltage. the kind of voltage it took to do 875- 900mhz actually made it surpass the gtx470 power consumption in some case too. plus they are not going to clock the card within an inch of its life like AMD does sometimes.
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Which is why I mentioned the GF114 tweaks.

cannondale06 said:
it took a gtx460 of over 875mhz to consistently beat the gtx470. the gtx570 is about 25% faster than the gtx470 was. so again even if the gtx560 has 384sp and a small bump in frequency, the gtx570 will still be 20-25% faster.
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Well here's one @ 815 Mhz, with lower power consumption than the GTX 470 and consistently being very close, matching and on few occasions, beating it:

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=27185&page=1

I don't think it will be difficult for the GTX 560 (at speculated frequencies) to beat the GTX 470 and creep on GTX 480/GTX 570, even if overall, the GTX 480/GTX 570 still win by 15-20%

cannondale06 said:
part of the overall value of the gtx460 was that it was and is affordable. pricing the gtx570 at 300 bucks would be insane. that will be nearly twice the price as some of the gtx460 deals we have seen lately. the sweet spot is around 200 bucks and once you get over 250 bucks its in a whole other category.
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And I agree. I too hope not to see it above $250, but if the performance is there, I don't see NVIDIA charging less for it, than AMD charges for the HD 6950.
 
Silus said:
Now that we know what the HD 6950 can do, if the GTX 560 is indeed close to the GTX 570 in performance and NVIDIA prices it @ HD 6950 levels, this will be an excellent value, just like the GTX 460 was.
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A $300 GTX 560? Sounds steep. I think it should go head to head with the 6870 and win by a smidge. $249 sounds about right to me.
 
vjcsmoke said:
A $300 GTX 560? Sounds steep. I think it should go head to head with the 6870 and win by a smidge. $249 sounds about right to me.
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I don't think the GTX 560 will win over the HD 6870 by a "smidge". Even a GTX 460 @ 850 Mhz already matches or surpasses a HD 6870. A fully enabled GF104 @ 750 Mhz should already be enough to match the HD 6870. With a frequency higher than that, it will win easily.

As for price, again I too hope that it isn't near the current HD 6950 price (and $250 does sound good), but if the performance is there to match the HD 6950, it won't cost much less.
 
Silus said:
And I agree. I too hope not to see it above $250, but if the performance is there, I don't see NVIDIA charging less for it, than AMD charges for the HD 6950.
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Silus said:
As for price, again I too hope that it isn't near the current HD 6950 price (and $250 does sound good), but if the performance is there to match the HD 6950, it won't cost much less.
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So you think Nvidia will give up on the $130~$250 market?

Is that what you are thinking?
 
$199 and $249, two cards.
Could go lower to $179 if they want to battle ATI, but it really depends on performance.

Nvidia wouldn't give up on the $200 market, and $200 to $350 is too big of a jump to leave empty.
If they're about to slice the 570 and 580 prices, that will change things for sure...

Nvidia still needs to replace the GTX 470 and GTX 460, performance-wise.
Should fill the gaps nicely.
 
I agree with the performance but I doubt the price will be $300, I'm gonna say they'll stick with the previous pricing of both GTX 460 cards, which will make it a great deal. I also believe there will be 2 versions from day one. One to compete with each of the 2 barts chips. One crippled just like the GTX 460 with the same cuda cores, 1GB ram, core frequency of 850mhz or more on a 256mb bus. Then they will have the one silus mentions in his OP @ $249.99 to compete with a 6870. It will come close to GTX 570. Probably be behind it about 15% or so. Memory and memory bus will favor GTX 570 so in some sittuations it'll be even further but in most games at 19x12 or 25x16 the performance will be close. Currently in my thread I refer to them as the GTX 560 and GTX 565
 
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needmorecarnitine said:
So you think Nvidia will give up on the $130~$250 market?

Is that what you are thinking?
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Where exactly did you get that idea ?
The GTX 560 being priced higher, because it has performance to spare when compared with the competition, has nothing to do with giving up on the $130-250 market.

If indeed the GTX 560 has enough performance to match or surpass the HD 6950, then NVIDIA will price it accordingly (i.e. near HD 6950 levels, whatever they are at the time of the GTX 560 launch). And if that happens (and assuming that this will be near $300, I'm betting on $279), they will cover the $179-$200 market, with a GF114 based card, with 1-2 SMs disabled (336 or 288 Stream processors), called GTS 550 or whatever.

The less than $150 market will be covered with the release of cards based on the fully enabled GF106 (GF116?) chip and that's it.
 
It will have to sell around $200, no way $250. $250 is going to get crowded pretty quickly...
 
bezant said:
It will have to sell around $200, no way $250. $250 is going to get crowded pretty quickly...
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well since it will likely be equal to or a bit faster than a 6870 there will probably be a 560 between $225-$250 and then a cut down model around around $180-$200. I believe there is zero chance we will see a 560 costing more than $250.
 
http://www.chiphell.com/thread-148884-1-1.html

20 to 30% faster than a GTX 460 (close to a HD 6950). If indeed NVIDIA prices it aggressively (i.e. lower than the HD 6950), then the HD 6950 is due for price cuts.

Die size is speculated to be about the same as GF104 or a bit smaller, akin to GF100 to GF110.
 
2 versions like the 460

$199 and $229-$249

Probably slightly faster than a 470, but no way they'll get too close to the 570.
 
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With these clocks, it's already beating or at least matching a GTX 470 overall (since a 815 Mhz GTX 460 is already 2-3 fps away from a GTX 470).
 
Silus said:
http://b.imagehost.org/0577/Untitled_5.png

With these clocks, it's already beating or at least matching a GTX 470 overall (since a 815 Mhz GTX 460 is already 2-3 fps away from a GTX 470).
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it takes a gtx460 at almost 900mhz to consistently match or beat a 470. a 384sp gtx560 at 820 would be about 5% faster than a gtx460 at 900mhz if everything scaled equally. the gtx570 is 25% faster than the gtx470 so it will still be at least 20% faster than a gtx570 than a 820mhz 384sp card. plus it may not even be clocked that high in the first place. just wait and see because your $300 and basically gtx570 performance prediction are going to be wrong.
 
cannondale06 said:
it takes a gtx460 at almost 900mhz to consistently match or beat a 470. a 384sp gtx560 at 820 would be about 5% faster than a gtx460 at 900mhz if everything scaled equally. the gtx570 is 25% faster than the gtx470 so it will still be at least 20% faster than a gtx570 than a 820mhz 384sp card. plus it may not even be clocked that high in the first place. just wait and see because your $300 and basically gtx570 performance prediction are going to be wrong.
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My prediction ?! You really need to actually read the posts...It's not my prediction at all.

As for the 900 Mhz GTX 460 to beat the GTX 470, that's incorrect. I even linked to a review of a 815 Mhz GTX 460 that is within 2-4 fps of the GTX 470 or matches it completely. The only exception being high tessellation loads.
 
Silus said:
My prediction ?! You really need to actually read the posts...It's not my prediction at all.

As for the 900 Mhz GTX 460 to beat the GTX 470, that's incorrect. I even linked to a review of a 815 Mhz GTX 460 that is within 2-4 fps of the GTX 470 or matches it completely. The only exception being high tessellation loads.
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you acted like it would be that fast and priced that high and even tried to defend it.
 
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HHmmm.... I'm guessing we are looking at GTX 470 like performance (possibly a little better) with a lower TDP,, man sign me up! Especially if it's aggressivly priced.

Nvidia, no 768mb models this time please!
 
cannondale06 said:
the gtx570 is 25% faster than the gtx470
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No it isn't. It's about 10% faster until you get to 2500x1600, at which point, yes, the gains jump to about 25%. But that's not relevant to the market interested in the 560.

And unless the 460 magically sprouts RAM, it will never beat a 470 at the higher end - high res and high AA.

The only question that interests me about the 560 is whether it will have 1GB or 1.2GB of RAM.
 
dook43 said:
fixed
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Matrices said:
Those graphs doesn't track with the [H] review but it's a larger roundup of games. Point conceded, but your math remains fuzzy. How is the 580 24% faster at 19x12 if its performance is 19% better?
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both of you should learn how to use math. if something is 81% of something else then that means its 24% faster. so do you think the gtx570 is only 88% faster than a 5450? lol
 
I wonder if it might be the replacement for the 460 in terms of folding. As of now, the 460 pretty much holds the sweet spot in terms of price/PPD ratio
 
cannondale06 said:
both of you should learn how to use math. if something is 81% of something else then that means its 24% faster. so do you think the gtx570 is only 88% faster than a 5450? lol
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Not quite getting it. (I suck at math, so I may be wrong and probably am.)

100 - 81 = 19
 
eddieck said:
Not quite getting it. (I suck at math, so I may be wrong and probably am.)

100 - 81 = 19
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going from 81% to 100% is a 24% increase. again would the 5450 which is 12% of a 570 mean the 570 is only 88% faster. of course not because a 570 is about 10 times as fast.
 
eddieck said:
Not quite getting it. (I suck at math, so I may be wrong and probably am.)

100 - 81 = 19
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100 - 81 = 19% if you're target is 100%(gtx 580)
100 - 81 = 19, 19/81 = 24%

it depends on how you word it.

how much faster is the GTX580 than the GTX470? 24%
or
the GTX470 delivers 81% of the GTX580s performance for 50% of the cost.
 
cannondale06 said:
you acted like it would be that fast and priced that high and even tried to defend it.
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I acted ? You fail at grasping what speculation is all about...

And what I defended was simply something that was already proven to death in many reviews. That a highly overclocked (between 800 and 850 MHz) GTX 460 is already very close to or is a match for the GTX 470, so a fully enabled GF104 (at the same frequencies, which is the root of the speculation) would easily match and even surpass a GTX 470, except in high tessellation loads, where the higher number of polymorph engines in the GTX 470, will make the difference.

As for price, I stand by all I said. If the GTX 560 is close to the HD 6950/HD 5870, NVIDIA won't price it much lower than the current price of those two (I mentioned something like $279). If it only surpasses the HD 6870, then obviously it will be priced around what you and others mentioned (<= $249).
 
xbonez said:
I wonder if it might be the replacement for the 460 in terms of folding. As of now, the 460 pretty much holds the sweet spot in terms of price/PPD ratio
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Should be. Unlike GF100 to GF110, there are not many improvements that can be done from GF104 to GF114 (except maybe in transistor budget/die size reduction), so the GTX 560 will essentially be powered by a fully enabled GF104 chip, which should give a 20-25% increase in performance over the regular GTX 460 1 GB, especially considering the rumored high clocks.
 
Silus said:
Should be. Unlike GF100 to GF110, there are not many improvements that can be done from GF104 to GF114 (except maybe in transistor budget/die size reduction), so the GTX 560 will essentially be powered by a fully enabled GF104 chip, which should give a 20-25% increase in performance over the regular GTX 460 1 GB, especially considering the rumored high clocks.
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it certainly wont be clocked as high as listed in the OP. that means the gtx570 will still be about 25% faster since its about 25% faster than a gtx470 which was already about 25-30% faster than the gtx460. so again this will not be as close to the gtx570 as you were saying and certainly not 300 bucks. the price and performance gap will be similar to what it was between the 470 and 460. I guess until this card comes out you will not accept that though.
 
Yeah its pretty much cut and dry on what to expect as far as GPU performance.

Its less clear if AMD's recent 2GB coup on the high end will affect nvidia before we see the 600 series.

With the 6850 having 1GB I cant see nvidia rationalizing a low end 560 model having less, and its possible a higher end might be 1.25GB.

I mean, we dont expect to see the 680 keep the 580's 1.5 or the 670 to keep the 570's 1.25 do we?
 
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