Last of the good CCFL displays?? For gaming! Gave LED a try!

S

Shad0w99

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Hi there,

After trying several LED displays of all sizes, I have come to accept the fact that my eyes just don't like led monitors for some reason. I get headaches, nausea, eyestrain...I'm sure you guys have heard it all before..The problem is not so severe with CCFL displays.


So I'm searching for a CCFL display for gaming and movies. 50/50 usage. I play fps games so a "snappier" display would be nice but I will take anything at this point. Size - anywhere from 23 to 30" would be fine. Budget = $500. I could stretch it for the right one. I don't know if there are any good 120hz CCFL available to buy! I think that would have turned out great for gaming! Any suggestions? Any help with this would be really great! :)

Thank you
 
All of these are pretty much discontinued. LED has taken over the monitor world. I've also given up on modern displays due to the shitty backlight giving me headaches. Unfortunately you won't find a single CCFL 120hz display above 23".

A complete(ish) list of CCFL 120hz displays:

*Asus VG236HE
*Alienware AW2310

Acer GD245HQ
Acer GD235HZ
Planar SA2311W
LG W2363D
Samsung 2233RZ
Viewsonic VX2268WM

*These are the best 2 options imo. Glossy vs Matte.
 
id even go for 60 hz.. but even ccfl doesnt work 100%. vasyafromukraine has a list of monitors compiled on his site you might want to check out that.
 
Thanks for that list, that's quite useful, though... the real trick is to find places where it might still be on sale :(
 
British said:
Thanks for that list, that's quite useful, though... the real trick is to find places where it might still be on sale :(
Click to expand...

You'll probably have to go second hand. If your name indicates UK residence then I can assure you that Asus RMA over here is fine. I had my vg236he replaced 5 times to get a perfect model. Each return was for a minor issue such as slight backlight bleed or quiet buzzing. These wouldn't warrant a replacement with many retailers or companies. Heck, I'm not even the original owner and have no proof of purchase :)
 
Names are not to be trusted !
While I am from Europe, it's not UK :rolleyes:

A quick glance at a few retailers confirmed that going for that route is not possible.
I might check on eBay if there's some stock.
 
Thanks for all the replies guys! very informative!


A complete(ish) list of CCFL 120hz displays:
Click to expand...

Just spend a long time looking up everything in your list. availability is tough on most of them, Asus and Alienware being the easiest to find.

id even go for 60 hz.. but even ccfl doesnt work 100%. vasyafromukraine has a list of monitors compiled on his site you might want to check out that.
Click to expand...

Thank you for mentioning that! What an eye opener! some really helpful information on that site! It feels like this changes everything. So basically he tracks down this headache/eye strain issue to PWM and pixel density. So if I go for a monitor with no PWM - even if it's LED, I should be fine? Maybe I need to give it a try. Maybe forget about gaming and 120hz and take care eyes first! I read that Dell S2740L has no PWM and I do prefer the 1080p resolution on a 27" :D It has low input lag as well but does have some overdrive issues. Anyone here got S2740L? any other known issues? I will keep it in my mind as a maybe and continue searching for more "PWM free" displays :D

Thank you
 
Shad0w99 said:
Thanks for all the replies guys! very informative!




Just spend a long time looking up everything in your list. availability is tough on most of them, Asus and Alienware being the easiest to find.



Thank you for mentioning that! What an eye opener! some really helpful information on that site! It feels like this changes everything. So basically he tracks down this headache/eye strain issue to PWM and pixel density. So if I go for a monitor with no PWM - even if it's LED, I should be fine? Maybe I need to give it a try. Maybe forget about gaming and 120hz and take care eyes first! I read that Dell S2740L has no PWM and I do prefer the 1080p resolution on a 27" :D It has low input lag as well but does have some overdrive issues. Anyone here got S2740L? any other known issues? I will keep it in my mind as a maybe and continue searching for more "PWM free" displays :D

Thank you
Click to expand...

ya even i think s2740l or s2440l will be a worthwhile buy. keeping an eye out for eye strain reports of owners of these monitors :D
 
Any chance there is a site that list monitor PWM status? maybe even mention some of the higher hz values? Tftcentral and prad it seems like haven't been checking pwm for that long..so there has to be a long list of refurbished, used ebay :D monitors out there possibly with no flicker! Would have made this searching process a lot easier :D

Thank you
 
A few of the ebay korean 30" ( leonidas, etc) use CCFL instead of LED backlight. Technology wise these are probably the last high end CCFLs that we will see.
 
Hmmm well, there's 25% off the AW2310 (and free shipping) on Dell's website, up to late november.
I might try that and see (pun intended) how it goes.
 
British said:
Hmmm well, there's 25% off the AW2310 (and free shipping) on Dell's website, up to late november.
I might try that and see (pun intended) how it goes.
Click to expand...

They also do a cash trade-in if you can find a half working monitor from a skip :)
 
Go for a secondhand Dell Ultrasharp. Got my 2408WFP for around $200USD, and it's the nicest monitor I've ever used (including the ones I didn't own myself).
 
British said:
Can you provide some links where you found those ?
Click to expand...

refurbished ones on newegg and dell! looks like you already found the dell one!


There is another thread about eyestrain and the user mentions that the new Dell S2440l cured his eye issues...which also has no PWM just like S2740l. It looks like PWM is indeed the culprit and not LED backlight as I thought. :D

I'm seriously considering getting one of these..probably thinking of going with the S2440l as the 27" has some serious overdrive issues...it might be okay.. I think I have become a PWM fanatic, scouring the internet for PWM free monitor info! :D


ASUS VS278Q-P & Asus VE278H ( Any chance anyone know if these monitors use PWM and if they do, at what hz? )

http://www.amazon.com/VS278Q-P-27-I...PDKIKX0DER&s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1352351679&sr=1-6

http://www.amazon.com/VE278H-27inch...PDKIKX0DER&s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1352351679&sr=1-4


Thank you
 
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sadbuttrue said:
They also do a cash trade-in if you can find a half working monitor from a skip :)
Click to expand...
I'm not familiar with that concept.
I suppose you have to find a wonky monitor, turn it in and then they offer a new one with a rebate ?
Is that kind of service available in Europe ?

Shad0w99 said:
refurbished ones on newegg and dell! looks like you already found the dell one!
Click to expand...
Yes, but as I suspected, you're most likely in (or around) the US, so it's probably not worth the hassle of shipping, customs and such...

Eureka! said:
Go for a secondhand Dell Ultrasharp. Got my 2408WFP for around $200USD, and it's the nicest monitor I've ever used (including the ones I didn't own myself).
Click to expand...
If I am to ever steer away from my trusty CRT, there's no chance I'll go for a plain 60Hz ! :D
Also, if I'm not mistaken (and since I'm too lazy to actually search for it), the Ultrasharp models are IPS ?
As much as it's nice to have "more accurate" colors, I'm way more interested in reactivity ;)
 
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Shad0w99 said:
refurbished ones on newegg and dell! looks like you already found the dell one!


There is another thread about eyestrain and the user mentions that the new Dell S2440l cured his eye issues...which also has no PWM just like S2740l. It looks like PWM is indeed the culprit and not LED backlight as I thought. :D

I'm seriously considering getting one of these..probably thinking of going with the S2440l as the 27" has some serious overdrive issues...it might be okay.. I think I have become a PWM fanatic, scouring the internet for PWM free monitor info! :D


ASUS VS278Q-P & Asus VE278H ( Any chance anyone know if these monitors use PWM and if they do, at what hz? )

http://www.amazon.com/VS278Q-P-27-I...PDKIKX0DER&s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1352351679&sr=1-6

http://www.amazon.com/VE278H-27inch...PDKIKX0DER&s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1352351679&sr=1-4


Thank you
Click to expand...


like the vasyafromukraine site mentioned this isnt only a pwm flicker issue this also has to do with pixel arrangement. he thinks that a high ppi monitor fixes the pixel grid problem.

i dont think it is that simple. i use a high resolution display (125 ppi) with 0 flicker at 100% brightness and low amount of blue light. that doesn't solve the pixel grid problem for me. i still get eye strain from the laptop at 3 feet away. the brightness at 100% isnt too bright for regular work and i like low brightness to begin with.

so it is both flicker and pixel grid which needs to be right besides low brightness and low blue light.

since the s2440 solved freestonews problems. i think the pixel grid might be good somehow on it. i might order it to check it out.
 
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Shad0w99 said:
There is another thread about eyestrain and the user mentions that the new Dell S2440l cured his eye issues...which also has no PWM just like S2740l. It looks like PWM is indeed the culprit and not LED backlight as I thought. :D

I'm seriously considering getting one of these..probably thinking of going with the S2440l as the 27" has some serious overdrive issues...it might be okay.. I think I have become a PWM fanatic, scouring the internet for PWM free monitor info! :D
Click to expand...

hi.

that was me, freestone wilson, who posted that!

over the years I went from a crt to a hp tn ccfl to a NEC ips ccfl panel.

the viewsonic crt 19" was fine.

the hp tn gave to me not only *severe* eyestrain, but that basically my visual field was SO interrupted for hours after i shut off the computer that i was spacey dizzy, out of sorts, for hours afterwards! was glossy too.

I have a personal theory, for me alone, maybe, that the radiation spectrum of a florescent light causes "dissonance" in my visual centers.
or...maybe it is the "flicker" inherent with these.

that 23" ips NEC matte screen was better, but still my eyes did not look forwards to looking at it for very long.

i read that ccfl is really *like* looking at florescent lights.

my eyes never did like to look at these for very long.

so here is my dell s2440l and so far i have had no issues with eye or brain problems. oh sometimes the glossy screen has a bit of reflection interference, sometimes a white internet screen is so "bright" that my eyes wince slightly, but these small problems are not from the same "world" as what was bothering me with the other two lcds.

I recall when my father bought one of those early color tvs. good thing i had by then left home as when i visited him one day and i looked at a weather map from 15 feet away, for only five minutes my eyes and head were so so so twisted and "ruined" that i took ah hour to recover. I decided then and there that if *this* was the new order of television, i would instantly go cold turkey and never watch tv again!

fortunately things changed.

now if I go to my best buy, here in tallahassee, and i look at that vast row of tvs, if i look at normal lcd tvs for a bit, the same problem happens. but seemingly i can look at the plasma tvs and no problem.

the 27" apple cinema? when that came out and best buy put in an Apple area, why even that hi res panel gave to me this "ccfl effect"!

???

my old viewsonic was beginning to tell me that it was "nursing home" time, years of good duty and it was Time.

thus i was very interested to read that this dell monitor had no PWM flicker.

tis very hard to describe my eyesight after a ccfl monitor use. it was for an hour as if i were *blind* even when i could see! like my visual acuity was somehow ruined temporarily.

what I have also found interesting is that on other forums i have read how some people cannot use crt monitors and love ccfl lcds!

Comes down to another profound finding about just how "different" each of us is, genetically!

freestone
 
freestonew said:
hi.


so here is my dell s2440l and so far i have had no issues with eye or brain problems. oh sometimes the glossy screen has a bit of reflection interference, sometimes a white internet screen is so "bright" that my eyes wince slightly, but these small problems are not from the same "world" as what was bothering me with the other two lcds.

the 27" apple cinema? when that came out and best buy put in an Apple area, why even that hi res panel gave to me this "ccfl effect"!

freestone
Click to expand...

i thought the s2240L had very good low brightness for you?
and
i thought Apple 27" was perfect for you?

you are confusing me.:rolleyes:
 
dopple said:
i thought the s2240L had very good low brightness for you?
and
i thought Apple 27" was perfect for you?

you are confusing me.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

????

oh i liked the apple but my disibility pension is so small I cannot afford it.

the s2440l is the monitor I have now. the best one, so far, that I have found for my eyes. but golly, any new thing takes a while to get used to.

freestone
 
freestonew said:
????

oh i liked the apple but my disibility pension is so small I cannot afford it.

the s2440l is the monitor I have now. the best one, so far, that I have found for my eyes. but golly, any new thing takes a while to get used to.

freestone
Click to expand...

you mentioned the apple CD gave you the ccfl effect. what is that?

and s2440l the white net pages were too bright for you? did you lower the monitor brightness?
 
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hi all.


i think that I have the answer to why I have had some small tiny problems with my otherwise wonderful dell s2440l!

Here is this wonderful monitor and by the way, i detect no PWM.

the clue came just now when i read the reply from my English lady
pen-pal, from my mail.
I had yesterday told her about my problems and she too has a sensitive system.

she told me that in her Library she will get a splitting headache in an hour, when she uses the Monitors there. "they all are widescreen" she says.
*that*, for me was the "Boing-Boing" of Realization!

in my public library, here in tallahassee, they must have about 65 to 70 computers. Often I go there and use these computers as i have no printer in my apartment or that i am just there and want to look at stuff.
many of these computers systems are old and most are donations.
the monitors also suffer from mis-adjusted settings and user messing-around, too.
but i can look at even an over-bright cffl screen for over an hour and "nothing" happens!! as restful as looking at a wall!

but these are all cffl florescent tube screens!

there is but one Common Denominator.

they all are square 4:3 screens with 4:3 aspect ratio!
NO widescreens.

now I See...pun intended.

the central vision Looks at a scene in front of the eyes. the peripheral vision scans to both sides and makes for a true 3-D image, of something looked at.
but a flatpanel widescreen is forcing the brain to process a 2-D image *as* a 3-D image.

dissonance results!

the brain tries to see this 2-D image as a three dimensional image.
this is not good. the conflict causes a headache and/or a very tired eyes and thus even nausea as the stomach and brain are linked.
the dissonance will make for dizzyness too.

the only physical solution would be to sit far far back from the screen to make that widescreen into a central focus area! this sort of defeats the whole propose of a large monitor!

as the red Indians say about white men and campfires...." white man builds firewood pile three feet high and then sits back 20 feet. we Indians build a firewood pile six inches high and then sit back two feet: we are just as warm as the white man"!

i see it now, in 2015, i have a 27" monitor and sit 15 feet back from it!

I am probably affected by this Condition more than others as i am part Indian and am a bit ADD, the Hunter genes person. I tend to use my peripheral vision probably much more than other people do!
I tend to see effects to one side of my eyes, more than other people. I will notice, for instance, a bird on a branch that is almost that max,
135 degrees, to my side from central focus!

so this is my discovery. I am not sure what i am going to do with this information, though.


none of the crts, as far as i know, are widescreen.

freestone
 
I used to do incredible tricks in unreal tournament it would be impossible using lcd screens, crts were soo smooth and lag / ghosting free.. if I played fps like I used to I'd grab a crt, no doubt.
 
Small update: I did buy the Alienware AW2310.

The backlighting was quite OK, compared to the Catleap, but I couldn't get a proper backlighting without being perfectly still: if I moved just an inch up or down, I would get very dark horizontal areas, be it at top or bottom.
Very unpleasant.

It might have been a glitch in the screen I received, but in any case, I sent it back and I'm thus still on my good ol' 21" CRT.
 
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British said:
Small update: I did buy the Alienware AW2310.

The backlighting was quite OK, compared to the Catleap, but I couldn't get a proper backlighting without being perfectly still: if I moved just an inch up or down, I would get very dark horizontal areas, be it at top or bottom.
Very unpleasant.

It might have been a glitch in the screen I received, but in any case, I sent it back and I'm thus still on my good ol' 21" CRT.
Click to expand...

That's not a backlight issue or a "glitch". That's gamma shift and, TN panels (which that display has) do not handle viewing angle changes well. VA panels do it as well to a lesser extent (via a "viewing cone") and, IPS panels do it too once you start shifting to a more "extreme" viewing angle while increasing the "IPS glow". It's just a side effect of how LCD panels "behave" regardless of CCFL, Edge Lit LED, Direct LED, or Full Array LED backlighting. Backlighting affects light bleed, flashlighting, clouding, and overall uniformity. The panel type affects viewing angles, pixel response and transition times, colour accuracy, black levels, etc.
 
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