Will never happen. Nintendo only releases under powered boxes.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Kinect-Less Xbox One Coming June 9th
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
Will never happen. Nintendo only releases under powered boxes.
Both of those are coming to PS4.
The openness of the PC platform can also be a curse. It's not black and white. It is far more difficult to get consistent performance out of an open environment. Also PCs are more expensive than their console counterparts. I challenge anyone to piece together a PC for the same cost as a PS4 that will deliver the same performance.
I won't get into a long discussion about programming but the x86 platform means nothing. There will not be an emulator for the PS4 or Xbox One for a very long time. Well after the life cycle of the consoles has ended. The Xbox was pretty much an off the shelf PC with a 733mhz p3. There is still no fully functional emulator for it 12 years after it's release. The PS4/Xbox One are far more complex machines.
Please realize that this is only your opinion. What you value in a game has no merit on the validity of a platform. Just because someone enjoys a different type of game than you doesn't make their preference invalid or wrong.
It is an extremely closed minded approach to advocate that one platform for gaming is somehow superior to another. Every platform offers something different. There is no wrong choice. There is only the right choice for the specific person. Each platform has some great unique experiences on it.
I have no issue with this as long as the developers are still required to develop for the Kinect 2. (Basically, you want to sell a game on the One, you must support the Kinect.) Oh well, $150 for a Kinect 2 brand new as a separate device, hope nobody gets buyers remorse and wish they had gotten one.(The dollar amount in made up obviously.)
LMAO @ the idea of "requiring" developers to develop for the Kinect if they want to develop for Xbone. Really, thank you for the laugh.
Unfortunately its not the 90's and 2000's anymore. The old Microsoft strongarm and intimidation tactics really aren't going to get them anymore like they once did. The world has moved on. With Xbone being outsold by PS4 more than 2:1, Microsoft is lucky that anyone develops for their console at all.
viscountalpha
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2011
- Messages
- 2,618
It wasn't just that. Microsoft had been doing some incredibly bone headed things for awhile now.
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2006
- Messages
- 7,403
At least Spencer is making the right choices, unfortunately he can't retroactively fix the hardware gap.
rudy
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2004
- Messages
- 8,703
BTW not to rain on everyones parade but buried down in that article I think they said that entertainment options are now going to be available without gold. So this may have negated one of the selling points of a PS4.
Ashbringer
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2010
- Messages
- 5,522
Been done to death. Rather then doing it myself, I'll just copy and past what I find on Google.
Motherboard: ASRock H61M-DGS ($50). A no-frills motherboard, but you get integrated Gigabit Ethernet and 6-channel audio. It only supports DDR3 1600 RAM, but thats a compromise were forced to make.
CPU: Intel Celeron G1610 ($50). This chip is only a dual-core, but for lightly threaded workloads it has comparable theoretical performance to the PS4′s 8-core Jaguar CPU.
GPU: Asus HD7850-DC-1GD5 ($140, or $120 after rebate).
RAM: Kingston HyperX Black 8GB ($65). This stuff is DDR3 1600 which has a fraction of the bandwidth of the PS4′s GDDR5.
Storage: 500GB Samsung Spinpoint M8 ($55). 500GB of 2.5-inch storage goodness.
Other: USB Bluetooth + WiFi dongle ($11)
Case and power supply: Apex DM-387 Micro ATX case ($45). This bad boy is cheap, includes a PSU, and can stand on its side like the PS4!
Total cost: $416, or $396 after rebate
There was functional emulator for original Xbox, but due to lack of interest nobody cared to continue. Every game on Xbox is already on PC. Also it's not the hardware that needs to be emulated but the software, which has tons of security. Which means breaking some DMCA.
But if the Xbox One got a game the PC didn't, that everyone wants on PC, you'd bet an emulator would pop up.
rudy
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2004
- Messages
- 8,703
Doesn't matter if a PC is more than a console anyway, you need a PC of some sort most likely. The true cost of a PC is not something any person can easily calculate. The increased efficiency, lower cost you pay for goods and everything else because of all its efficiency gains. You likely need one for work. Its like saying I can buy a bicycle cheaper than I can buy car or truck. So what you just cant do nearly as much with a bicycle and you likely need a car or truck anyway.
Missing an operating system, lacking in a proper amount of video ram, memory bandwidth is far lower, missing a bluray drive, missing a controller. That system would in no way push the same detail and frame rate of a PS4. You're not even close to having feature and performance parity.
Take AMDs A10-7850K which is somewhat comparable (less cores, faster clock) to the CPU/Video combo of a PS4. It can't even push 30FPS at 1680*1050 on high settings in Tomb Raider. The definitive edition for PS4 is 1080p and about equal to high settings on PC. The PS4 pushes 50-60fps consistantly.
I stick by my statement that you cannot build a system for $400 that gives you what a PS4 does. The article might have a bit more legitimacy if they actually built and tested the system in question.
There was no fully functional emulator. It managed to play only Halo and that's it. That is far from functional. As to your DMCA point, it's meaningless. Emulator authors have never cared and many modern emulators even require original bios images of the system in question to run. So far the most advanced system to actually be emulated in the GC/Wii.
BINGO my friend
if Nintendo was smart, which they are not, They would release a console named Nintendo Revolution with specs that trump both PS4 and Xbox One. Keep the Gamepad and introduce a controller identical to the PS4 one. Thye would catch both by surprise and ride into the sunset.
As it stands MS is fucked... This is them waiving a white flag. Sony wins this round big.
Sony wind and goes bankrupt in the process. Moral victory.
I like how the article is saying the stuff the naysayers wanted to go away and they would buy it are back saying "too late!" or "lol."
Expect nothing less from front page news.
BladeVenom
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2005
- Messages
- 7,707
Most console owners still need a PC. So the real world scenario is a console plus a basic PC vs. a gaming PC. So if you use a PC, the gaming PC is cheaper since you don't need a console, and a video card is cheaper than a console. It's also better.
If you are already a PC gamer, you can reuse your PSU, case, fans, Blu-ray/DVD player, hard drive, mouse and keyboard. You really only have upgrade your motherboard, CPU, memory, and video card.
That's just the short term. When you start adding in the cost of games, the PC is clearly the better bargain.
The Xbox One has gotten rid of it's price disadvantage against the PS4, but its graphics are still noticeably inferior to a PS4 and massively inferior to a PC.
BladeVenom
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2005
- Messages
- 7,707
Then add in the cost of XBox Live or Playstation plus for the life of the console.
Almost forgot that.
Almost forgot that.
Your point about people needing a PC is only somewhat valid. I don't really know many (maybe 2-3) people with desktops. Most I know have laptops and you cant just upgrade those to turn them into decent gaming boxes. If you do buy a cheap desktop and stick a card in it, yes it's a great multipurpose machine. Most however buy laptops. I think there is solid evidence that in "most" use scenarios a console is cheaper.
In the end, I'm not arguing that one platform is better than another. That's really the point, you can't say one is superior to the other, they all offer different options and new exclusives. I don't have a dog in this race at all. I am simply looking at it as a gaming enthusiast. I have a high end gaming PC, PS4, Xbone, Wii-U, Vita, 3DS and a ton of older legacy consoles as well. Each platform has great games and great reasons to play them.
Playstation Plus pays for itself several times over during the course of the year. The freebies for PS3/PS4/Vita are more than worth the $60 if nothing else was included. Even Steam can't touch Plus when it comes to value.
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2006
- Messages
- 7,403
Eh I'd say that depends on how many Sony consoles you own. I have all 3 and I think it's a true statement but if you only have one I'm not so sure.
rudy
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2004
- Messages
- 8,703
It also depends on if you want to play a bunch of random games, if you are like many and all you do is play COD what good is it? Just because shit is bundled doesn't mean its a good deal. Its funny how some of the same people who complain about no al a carte cable will defend subscription based gaming that is the same exact thing.
Hornet
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2005
- Messages
- 6,624
Or have a version that doesn't have Kinect and save everyone the trouble. This should have been done at the beginning, no reason why they should force Kinect on everyone.
Ashbringer
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2010
- Messages
- 5,522
Tomb Raider is a terrible example use since the console versions use different textures. So we can't make a 1:1 comparison. Not like BF4. Which my picture clearly shows a difference in textures. Definitive edition uses different textures and yet looks worse.
Back then a developers kit was leaked and a lot of people were using it to try and make an emulator. CXBX author was trying to get around that by making his own set of tools, but the xbox was so hacked apart that Microsoft went hard on anyone who tried. Just cause it's legal, doesn't mean that people won't get scared into hiding.
Look at what happened to Sony with Hotz. He didn't do anything illegal, but Sony sure did sue the pants off of him and won. I actually knrw about UltraHLE before it was released. The developers were afraid of Nintendo, and didn't want to release the emulator until it could play some games. They had no plans to continue for this reason.
Xbox didn't have a single game that was worth making an emulator for. Xbox 360 and PS3 will take a decade to emulate on PC, and you'd need quantum computing on top of it. But not the Xbone and PS4. Given that these consoles have games people want on PC. Right now they do not.
Ashbringer
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2010
- Messages
- 5,522
I found an excellent article that has my favorite budget video card the 7770 or R7 260X that vs next gen consoles. Their videos show PS4 not better then a Radeon 7770.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-r7-260x-vs-next-gen-console
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cZGw92feB0
By not means is the PS4 a power house of gaming. A Radeon 7770 would give you equal performance and gaming experience. Apparently I'm not the only one who noticed the reduce texture quality and level of detail in some games in the PS4 version.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-r7-260x-vs-next-gen-console
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cZGw92feB0
By not means is the PS4 a power house of gaming. A Radeon 7770 would give you equal performance and gaming experience. Apparently I'm not the only one who noticed the reduce texture quality and level of detail in some games in the PS4 version.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2008
- Messages
- 7,352
The lone Xbox fanboy. There is no argument here.
Both consoles and and nice gaming PC's have advantages and disadvantages.
This happens to be a computer forum full of members who enjoy gaming on PC hardware.
Don't be surprised if you get zero love here defending the Xbox one.
They gave away bioshock infinite the other month, pretty far from a random game.
I'm no fan of forced subscriptions, and psn+ isn't forced. My gaming is in no way restricted without it. However so far it has been an amazing value, especially since I got it for $29.
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2007
- Messages
- 13,080
Hey, I am a gaming fanboy who probably has a better gaming PC than most on these forums. (Which is fine, it does not matter either way, just making a point.) I just call things as they are well others start foaming at the mouth over facts they cannot disprove. Also, I just happen to be a computer professional, (which means I do not know it all and still have a lot of stuff I can learn), but I prefer facts and logic over rage and illogic.
If the worst you can call me is an Xbox fanboy, that is fine by me. (Sorry but, there are much worse things in life like, you know, being a girl who is kidnapped in Nigeria perhaps?) Anyways, the Xbox one is here to say and I find it rather funny to declare a "war" over after just 7 months when we still have at least 8 more years to go or so in this console generation.
Personally, if someone wants to cry desperation, I would say that fits Sony to a T. As well it should to, they are sinking and fast, hope they can stop the flooding and right the ship.
Generally the PS Plus games are pretty good. Between the 3 consoles I've grabbed about 30 games this year. That works out to $2 a so a game. Some were great, some where average. Still $2 a game to try out a ton of stuff isn't bad at all.
I see less value in Xbox Live currently as the free with gold selection isn't nearly as robust.
lilbabycat
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2011
- Messages
- 3,810
You also ignore the value standpoint from any "argument" that you make. If something is entertaining to you for even the most limited amount of time, if it has a feature that you use even once, you consider it completely useful and worth the price. Whether it be the voice commands (that happen to work perfectly for you every time yet everyone else in the world has issues with them), or the gimmick kinect implementations in games, you've build them up as if they really were worth the $150 premium.
They aren't.
Congrats on your low standards of quality and high level of disposable income.
I'm not sure they're worth the price yet, but there is potential. Does that mean we early adopters and those that have an Xbone have been scammed? Or trolled? Likely. I still like the idea of the kinect though, despite its complete lack of real functionality yet. I do regret buying an Xbone, but am glad I was able to find a good deal here on the forums for a PS4.
It's sad but It seems as if the market for the Xbone is a little confused. It doesn't know what it wants to be when it grows up. Still.
It's sad but It seems as if the market for the Xbone is a little confused. It doesn't know what it wants to be when it grows up. Still.
Was going to pretty much say the same. I personally think Kinect is neat and with proper support may be fun, the biggest issue is ridiculously high cost where it just isn't worth it. Hehe, I still have my original Xbox for fighting games which I like. Everything else is on PC. If the price of a new Xbone was lower and it did support older games I'd probably get it but otherwise I might as well upgrade the computer as it's a better investment.
CreepyUncleGoogle
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2013
- Messages
- 6,871
This whole comparing PCs to consoles has got to be the most silly thing that's ever happened in the world of nerds (well, maybe it's tied with comparing web browsers or arguing about Steve Ballmer and Larry Ellison's chest hair growth). Why try to say something is better than something else when the niche those two things are intended to fill are altogether different? This is like saying a chest freezer sucks because it's harder to use as a doorstop than a sand-filled tape dispenser.
Master [H]
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2003
- Messages
- 2,629
I'm in the same boat. I like having consoles for the fact that no matter what game it is, I have the ability to play it. I can't play Gears of War or Halo on a PS3, and only Halo is available on PC, AFAIK. The Last of Us is PS3 (and soon, PS4) only. Mario is Nintendo only. Some games are cut-rate on PC or have absurd requirements (CoD: Ghosts needing 6GB of RAM and runs smoothly on 360).
I find that elitist, PC-only attitudes exclude a lot of great games. I play games for fun, and while I like things about certain platforms over others, the bottom line is the fun-factor. The platform is irrelevant. I don't give a shit if it has the best eye-candy on a Quad-SLI & LGA2011 12-core, 64GB RAM setup...if it's not fun for me to play, the hardware means jack. I thought that was a big part of gaming: fun. I understand if a platform doesn't really offer content you like, but snubbing a platform just because it's "that platform" is asinine.
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2007
- Messages
- 13,080
Says the I own a gaming PC and am better than you for it person.
Good luck, have fun and oh, enjoy having the last word.Ashbringer
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2010
- Messages
- 5,522
Because the difference between console and PC is beginning to blur. Consoles don't have much in advantages over PC gaming.
1. Consoles are no longer cheaper then Pc gaming. Especially with monthly fees taken in.
2. Consoles require updates just like PC.
3. Games require patches, just like on PC.
4. PC's can be plugged into the TV, just like console.
But consoles now lack other advantages that PC's now have. It just makes no sense to game on consoles anymore. You can plug in a gamepad and play away with your favorite games. The guys over at Game Grumps are playing Dark Souls II on PC through an Xbox controller.
swatbat
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2001
- Messages
- 13,088
I can understand why they did this but I don't think it was a good move in the long run. They have managed to make what I consider a lot of mistakes already with this system. Power aside the xbox one should have launched with the following available for it: Kinect tv mounts, wireless headsets, and a real remote control. While the remote they came out with its bad it needs channel buttons on it. I still don't have a wireless headset available and my kinect sat for a while until the tv mount came out unused.
Past that I think one of the real reasons they did this was to help get it to market elsewhere faster. The voice localization takes longer to do. I think it is a big mistake to not have the standalone kinect available for it right away for those who may want to upgrade.
Overall one big thing that MS has had going for them is the install base of the kinect. Even with the 360 their bundles made sure a lot of people had them so developers could use them. With the one it was a simple everyone will have one. This gave us better chances at developers using them in good ways. Personally I wish they had just dropped the price of the system and included a game or something.
Also a lot of stuff on the xbox uses the voice commands. An example is the game dvr which doesn't have a button on the controller like the ps4 does. I'm wondering how they will fix all of this to work better without it.
Past that I think one of the real reasons they did this was to help get it to market elsewhere faster. The voice localization takes longer to do. I think it is a big mistake to not have the standalone kinect available for it right away for those who may want to upgrade.
Overall one big thing that MS has had going for them is the install base of the kinect. Even with the 360 their bundles made sure a lot of people had them so developers could use them. With the one it was a simple everyone will have one. This gave us better chances at developers using them in good ways. Personally I wish they had just dropped the price of the system and included a game or something.
Also a lot of stuff on the xbox uses the voice commands. An example is the game dvr which doesn't have a button on the controller like the ps4 does. I'm wondering how they will fix all of this to work better without it.
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2007
- Messages
- 13,080
As long as Microsoft continues to improve upon what is already out there like voice commands, I will be content. Voice command are a big benefit that finally has some good uses. (Something I have been waiting on since the early 90's.)
Funny how all anyone talks about with the Kinect is voice commands. Certainly informs to the lack of interest in the motion control gimmick - which makes up the bulk of the cost of the kinect2 - by developers and even Microsoft themselves.
The system didn't need a $100-$150 peripheral just for voice commands. Headset could've handled it just fine.
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2007
- Messages
- 13,080
Headset for that would have been worthless. Why hunt for the headset, put it on, then use it when I can just walk into a room, say Xbox on and go about my business? Also, when I do not feel like talking, I just hit the power button or use the motion controls after it is turned on. I do not have to use the controller at all if I do not want to except when I am playing my games.
*Sigh* This hatred is getting really dumb.