Kimera Industries Cerberus: The 18L, mATX, USA-made enclosure

Aibohphobia said:
The only halfway standardized handle mount spacing I can think of you'd find in a hardware store is for drawers. But I wouldn't want to use those types of handles to carry the case around.

How about the Mnpctech handles? http://mnpctech.com/pc-case-lan-party-gaming-carry-top-server-tower-handles/billet-grooved-handles.html

They wouldn't work before since the handle had to be long enough for the 120mm fan to fit but with the top fan mount dropped that's no longer an issue.
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I like those handles but I'd still just want the one, centered on the top. Not two, since this is a small case.
 
I've got my eye on this case for when I eventually build a new rig, probably within a year. I'd like something powerful enough to handle a Rift (whenever it comes out), yet portable enough that I could take it with me to show the Rift to friends. The Nova looks like it could fit my needs nicely so I'm excited to see all the progress.

I'm absolutely interested in having a case handle, but I voted "other" on the strawpoll. I'd like to see the handle on the bottom, so that it doubles as a foot to allow airflow into the bottom of the case. MSI's Nightblade is a good example of what I mean, it's too bad the case only holds mITX and is somewhat ugly. I'm probably alone in wanting this, though.
 
Aibohphobia said:
So it is effective when used as intake, which is suprising, I would have thought they'd perform better as exhaust.
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I'd wager it's because when the side fans exhaust (and the bottom fans take in), some or most of the air taken in by the bottom fans takes a shortcut directly out through the side fans instead of going up into the graphics card. In effect, the side fans are fighting with the graphics card fans for air, instead of helping. :)

Getting rid of the top fan and putting its space to better use is a good idea, but if I understood you correctly you're thinking about shifting the contents upwards (in effect) to make space for rads in the bottom of the case? Since I suspect the psu can't be moved any further up (because of the space needed for the power cable plug), wouldn't this in effect mean that it would be harder to fit an SFX-L psu since the distance from its bottom to the top-most graphics card would decrease?
 
Zangmonkey said:
I like those handles but I'd still just want the one, centered on the top. Not two, since this is a small case.
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Whatever handle solution Nova ends up with will be similar to the current one.

Kaldskryke said:
I've got my eye on this case for when I eventually build a new rig, probably within a year. I'd like something powerful enough to handle a Rift (whenever it comes out), yet portable enough that I could take it with me to show the Rift to friends. The Nova looks like it could fit my needs nicely so I'm excited to see all the progress.

I'm absolutely interested in having a case handle, but I voted "other" on the strawpoll. I'd like to see the handle on the bottom, so that it doubles as a foot to allow airflow into the bottom of the case. MSI's Nightblade is a good example of what I mean, it's too bad the case only holds mITX and is somewhat ugly. I'm probably alone in wanting this, though.
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VR SLI is part of why I went with dual GTX 980s, now they just need to actually implement that feature :rolleyes:

I think you are alone in wanting the handle there. Nova loaded up can weigh 11-13kg so that'd be a very awkward way of carrying it.
 
backfeed said:
Getting rid of the top fan and putting its space to better use is a good idea, but if I understood you correctly you're thinking about shifting the contents upwards (in effect) to make space for rads in the bottom of the case? Since I suspect the psu can't be moved any further up (because of the space needed for the power cable plug), wouldn't this in effect mean that it would be harder to fit an SFX-L psu since the distance from its bottom to the top-most graphics card would decrease?
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I left enough space for an off the shelf up-angle plug. So if we either source the same left-angle plug that the M1 uses or get a custom low-profile up-angle plug the PSU bracket can shift up as well.
 
Aibohphobia said:
@Gryphon, tried the side fans. I just left the panel off entirely since there wouldn't be much left of a cardboard one once I cut out vents anyway. I also used 120mm fans like you see in the pic since there wasn't room inside the case since I'm using the Asus DirectCU GTX 780.

I figure a non-reference cooler would be a better test of the side fans. Couldn't actually use them with this Asus but there are some narrow non-ref cards like from Zotac.

*snip*

With the two bottom fans intaking and the two side fans exhausting but without the fans on the top and rear running the GPU temps were actually higher than the same setup without the side fans.

Same as above but with the side fans intaking dropped GPU temp several degrees.

So it is effective when used as intake, which is suprising, I would have thought they'd perform better as exhaust. There's still the problem that they won't fit when used with wide cards which is most non-ref cards these days though so I still don't think it'll be a default option.

I may include mounting holes on the frame though, so if there is demand for it later it could be offered as an option.
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I'm not surprised that the exhaust config is not improving temps there. Exhaust would help with blower style coolers where the hot air gets trapped around the rear. It would help especially with the SLI config. With the 780 Strix, the side fans are fighting with the fans on the card for air, so it's not helping.

Try the exhaust config with SLI GTX980's, but with a single 120mm or 92mm fan towards the rear. I'll bet it'll make a good difference. The other thing is, without the sidepanel, you're not able to simulate the heat being trapped, which is the reason for the top card getting so hot. If you can rig a cardboard for a sidepanel, it would give you a better idea.

I had an NZXT ADAMAS case, which I loved and built several different builds in it. Once, I had a GTX295 Quad-SLI in it, and I'd run Folding at Home 24/7. Google the case, and you'll see that it was and still is one of the smallest ATX cases. This was the best fan config in that case (I cut that third 120mm fan opening myself):

2uqk3fa.jpg


Granted, GTX295 let more air escape from the rear end than most blower style cards, but all reference cards (especially NVIDIA) lets hot air escape at the rear end, and that hot air typically gets trapped there, and between the cards.
 
The only change I'd like to see is to have the front i/o ports + power/reset switches moved to the top of the case instead of the front panel.
 
vpr said:
The only change I'd like to see is to have the front i/o ports + power/reset switches moved to the top of the case instead of the front panel.
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I thought of that too but I don't think the power button is going to fit between the PSU and front panel without making the case deeper, which I wouldn't want.
 
theGryphon said:
I thought of that too but I don't think the power button is going to fit between the PSU and front panel without making the case deeper, which I wouldn't want.
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Well, it couldn't be in front of the power supply since that would block the air intake for it. And putting it behind it would preclude use of the 2.5" bracket (and would place the I/O in an awkward place, at least IMO).

There's some space to the (right) side of the PSU, where I/O could theoretically fit, but I don't think it would be nearly enough space, so the case would have to be made wider or longer. Basically, any top-mounted I/O would necessitate increasing the case dimensions in some way.

Can I ask why top-mounted switches and ports are preferable? Nova is small enough to be put on a desk, and large enough where it could justifiably be put on a floor, so having everything centered vertically on the front face seems like a good compromise to me.
 
I'm fine with the front placement of the I/O. Cleaner front panel though would not only look better, it also seems to me that it would be easier to design around. For example, I had an idea to make the side panels into L-shape each such that they cover the front (without need for a front panel) and they sit one on top of the other (on the front) in a way to leave some opening on one side, top and bottom. I know, I have to draw this to make it clear, lol :)
 
vpr said:
The only change I'd like to see is to have the front i/o ports + power/reset switches moved to the top of the case instead of the front panel.
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There's isn't room to do that elegantly and like Phoenix said, the current placement is a better compromise since Nova would be fine either on top the desk or on the floor.


theGryphon said:
I'm fine with the front placement of the I/O. Cleaner front panel though would not only look better, it also seems to me that it would be easier to design around. For example, I had an idea to make the side panels into L-shape each such that they cover the front (without need for a front panel) and they sit one on top of the other (on the front) in a way to leave some opening on one side, top and bottom. I know, I have to draw this to make it clear, lol :)
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I kinda think I see where you're going but a picture would be very helpful.

I tried out a config like your setup, data and pics here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SANU6ZF73ckIyd7x8_OXqy8hvEDqieL0pVGSTfIM5Ck/edit#gid=366019967

With the side fan exhausting it does help out the top card a bit, but I'm not sure if it's enough to be worth adding a bracket and panel variant.
 
Here is what I'm suggesting, no slot openings on the sides, everything is solid, no front panel, just two side panels. You can use the same front I/O ;)

By the way, in the pic, there is 9mm between the frame and the first side panel, and another 9mm between the side panels on the front.

fk5cvq.jpg
 
^ If you use this something like this, I would suggest that you change the side panel installation direction to top-down (instead of front-to-back).
 
It's an interesting idea, reminds me of the Inwin S-Frame, but attaching them to the frame would be much trickier and the front front panel needs some kind of spacer to keep from bending towards in the inner front panel.
 
PlayfulPhoenix said:
Can I ask why top-mounted switches and ports are preferable? Nova is small enough to be put on a desk, and large enough where it could justifiably be put on a floor, so having everything centered vertically on the front face seems like a good compromise to me.
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Having a toddler who likes to push buttons means a front panel power button will get pressed frequently by her little fingers. I have my define R3 ATX case on top of my desk for this very reason as well. It's also the reason my printer, and consoles are in their boxes in the closet.

Aside from that (kids grow older and mature) it provides for a cleaner aesthetic.

And aside from those reasons, just a personal preference, but certainly not a deal breaker if not done, although side mounted ones are and why I passed on the Phanteks- Enthoo EVOLV.
 
Can 2 HDD 3.5 drives will fit in the NOVA case? Will it have an optional slim disc drive slot? Would the CORSAIR HXi CP-9020072-NA 750W ATX PSU fit?

When the final design is done send your vent (sides,top,bottom and rear) specs to demcifilter.com so they can make custom dust filters, that way folks like me can just order them. ;)

Looking forward to getting myself a NOVA case :D
 
Kid_Dynamite said:
Can 2 HDD 3.5 drives will fit in the NOVA case? Will it have an optional slim disc drive slot? Would the CORSAIR HXi CP-9020072-NA 750W ATX PSU fit?

When the final design is done send your vent (sides,top,bottom and rear) specs to demcifilter.com so they can make custom dust filters, that way folks like me can just order
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We're looking into a 2 x 3.5" bracket that would go on the bottom of the case, it'll block the bottom 3 slots though.

I haven't completely ruled out a slot load drive but it's not a priority.

No ATX support, SFX/SFX-L only.

I'll either do that or just order them in bulk and stock the filters ourselves.
 
vpr said:
Having a toddler who likes to push buttons means a front panel power button will get pressed frequently by her little fingers.
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Tip 1: WIN+R --> powercfg.cpl --> Choose what the power buttons do --> When I press power --> Do nothing
Tip 2: Power supply with a power switch on the back so it can't be turned on or use a power strip with seperate switcheable sockets.
 
Phuncz said:
Tip 1: WIN+R --> powercfg.cpl --> Choose what the power buttons do --> When I press power --> Do nothing
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You will also need to check the BIOS/UEFI for an option to prevent holding down the power button from powering off the machine. At that point, it may just be easier not the connect the power button.
 
I don't believe it would be an issue, needing to press the button for 8 or more seconds is not something a child would do unless it knows it does something.
 
Phuncz said:
Tip 1: WIN+R --> powercfg.cpl --> Choose what the power buttons do --> When I press power --> Do nothing
Tip 2: Power supply with a power switch on the back so it can't be turned on or use a power strip with seperate switcheable sockets.
Click to expand...

EdZ said:
You will also need to check the BIOS/UEFI for an option to prevent holding down the power button from powering off the machine. At that point, it may just be easier not the connect the power button.
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I've done both of these, and while it has helped dramatically it's not perfect. I've also taken to just leaving my pc on 24x7 so I don't have to deal w/ flipping the power switch on the backside of the case.

Phuncz said:
I don't believe it would be an issue, needing to press the button for 8 or more seconds is not something a child would do unless it knows it does something.
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My 2 1/2 yr old is fully capable of using my android phone, including long presses to drag and remove icons...I never taught her, she just picked it up from watching me I guess. She can also use my Roku3 remote to start Netflix shows (still doesn't get the dpad to navigate though) when it asks if you're still watching.

So, knowing to press and hold a button while unlikely is probably not out of the question but statistically low. However, repeated presses in quick succession are far more likely which can cause wear and tear and in some cases also manipulate the system into doing a reset/shutdown.

In another thread it was mentioned that black was going to be the color of the production run, do you foresee it being a glossy or matte black? Any other possible colors during production?
 
vpr said:
In another thread it was mentioned that black was going to be the color of the production run, do you foresee it being a glossy or matte black? Any other possible colors during production?
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I'm not sure we've figured matte vs. glossy out yet, actually - we're still tackling a lot of other stuff with regards to manufacture (and beyond). That may be the sort of thing we let public opinion decide, though.

Any colors beyond black will depend on what our manufacturer has, and what MOQ looks like for cases of different colors. Within those constraints, we'll likely poll people to get an idea of what's more popular or desirable.

The other thing, too, is that we can color the panels differently from the chassis. Having a black chassis and colored panels is the obvious choice, of course, but Aiboh shared what the inverse might look like. The possibilities are certainly fun to consider :)
 
vpr said:
In another thread it was mentioned that black was going to be the color of the production run, do you foresee it being a glossy or matte black? Any other possible colors during production?
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I think most people want matte, though I rather like the semi-glossy black on the prototype. It's a fingerprint magnet though.
 
Aibohphobia said:
It's an interesting idea, reminds me of the Inwin S-Frame, but attaching them to the frame would be much trickier and the front front panel needs some kind of spacer to keep from bending towards in the inner front panel.
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Hmm, yeah, bending may be an issue in the long run.

That said, what's the likelihood of using aluminum on the side panels and using pushpins (a la M1) to install them?
 
theGryphon said:
That said, what's the likelihood of using aluminum on the side panels and using pushpins (a la M1) to install them?
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I'm looking into push pins for the front panel to make getting to the front dust filter easier but I like the current side panel mounting because they help stiffen the frame when installed.

I prefer steel, it's sturdier, less prone to vibration, and I can get away with thinner metal than the M1 (1mm vs 1.5) which saves a bit of space. Also, very few shops do anodization in-house, it involves lots of nasty chemicals so it's usually outsourced, so that just adds more complication to manufacturing.
 
vpr said:
Having a toddler who likes to push buttons means a front panel power button will get pressed frequently by her little fingers.
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But once it's placed on a desk, towards the back - can a toddler even reach that?

If you place the Kimera on the floor, a toddle will easily reach a top-mounted button as well. And if you think the button invites mischief, imagine what the handle does. It's basically a challenge for your kid to drag it off and wreak havok to all attached devices.

Aside from that (kids grow older and mature) it provides for a cleaner aesthetic.
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Cleaner, but also kinda boring. The M1 has a curved front with that neat cutout at the bottom. The A4 has a curved front as well and is a lot smaller.
I fear that without a front button, the Nova may look just boring. That red power button is giving it character.
 
babadook said:
vpr said:
Aside from that (kids grow older and mature) it provides for a cleaner aesthetic.
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Cleaner, but also kinda boring. The M1 has a curved front with that neat cutout at the bottom. The A4 has a curved front as well and is a lot smaller.
I fear that without a front button, the Nova may look just boring. That red power button is giving it character.
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It's interesting that you mention this - Aiboh and I have actually gone back and forth fairly recently on what the front panel of the case should look like. The functionality of I/O placement is important, of course, but the aesthetic implications are equally so.

You're right (at least IMO) that the I/O ensures that the front face doesn't look too plain - unlike the very wide chamfers on the M1, which have a neat and almost gull-wing angularity, the chamfers on Nova are much narrower. That leads to a very broad and flat face. And although it's those chamfers and vents that give Nova its distinctive appearance, the I/O is what keeps Nova interesting from that front-facing point of view.

Plus, since the power button is swappable/customizable, it actually kind of showcases that switch. Which some may like, and others may not, but I just find it interesting... To me, it's almost like when someone customizes the shifter knob in their vehicle.
 
PlayfulPhoenix said:
It's interesting that you mention this - Aiboh and I have actually gone back and forth fairly recently on what the front panel of the case should look like. The functionality of I/O placement is important, of course, but the aesthetic implications are equally so.

You're right (at least IMO) that the I/O ensures that the front face doesn't look too plain - unlike the very wide chamfers on the M1, which have a neat and almost gull-wing angularity, the chamfers on Nova are much narrower. That leads to a very broad and flat face. And although it's those chamfers and vents that give Nova its distinctive appearance, the I/O is what keeps Nova interesting from that front-facing point of view.

Plus, since the power button is swappable/customizable, it actually kind of showcases that switch. Which some may like, and others may not, but I just find it interesting... To me, it's almost like when someone customizes the shifter knob in their vehicle.
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If the paint finish ends up being high gloss, the plain front panel will put HUGE requirements on the paint finish (though from the pictures, this seems fine on the prototype). That is worth considering. The less glossy the finish is, the less important it will be, but minimalist approaches are usually very expensive due to this fact. I really like the standard vandal switch. This means that people can customize to fit any color theme.

Struggling to imagine a more complicated/elaborate front panel design that would improve on it though. Details, just for the sake of details, usually cheapen design (this is of course my own, very subjective opinion). I/O ensures that there is more going on functionally, so i see you're point there, but I am not really sure if it's necessary, and I don't think it should ever be there if it takes away from compatibility inside the case. You need to make compromises in SFF.

Although I think it is nice to see that Abioh is willing to play around with colors, the color scheme actually makes this discussion a bit harder. It might be hard for many people to picture how this will look in all black. I think this is an extremely good idea.
 
The push panels are freaking awesome. I fell in love with the Evolv due to this feature and aluminum panels.
 
Urelure said:
Struggling to imagine a more complicated/elaborate front panel design that would improve on it though. Details, just for the sake of details, usually cheapen design (this is of course my own, very subjective opinion). I/O ensures that there is more going on functionally, so i see you're point there, but I am not really sure if it's necessary, and I don't think it should ever be there if it takes away from compatibility inside the case. You need to make compromises in SFF.
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Most of the changes we've bounced around actually simplify the front panel design, if anything, both aesthetically and from a manufacturing perspective. But we haven't convened on any particular change or idea, so I'm not sure that much will change there.

What probably won't is the presence of I/O - even with small cases, it's really quite impractical to force everyone to plug cables in the back.

Urelure said:
Although I think it is nice to see that Abioh is willing to play around with colors, the color scheme actually makes this discussion a bit harder. It might be hard for many people to picture how this will look in all black. I think this is an extremely good idea.
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We'll only start to think about color more seriously when we have a manufacturer selected, and know what they can provide. Any discussions up to this point about different colors have mostly been out of curiosity.

dsmwookie said:
The push panels are freaking awesome. I fell in love with the Evolv due to this feature and aluminum panels.
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I personally love case panels that employ those pegs and clips - too many cases do sliding hooks completely wrong :( But for Nova, at least, the way the panels engage the chassis actually help to keep the whole thing rigid, which is important since we went with 20 gauge steel (for weight concerns).

This might change, especially for the front panel, but we aren't sure yet - to be honest, a lot of the design changes we've been looking at are uncertain until we get feedback from possible manufacturers, and ultimately select one. So stay tuned for now ;)
 
I have to say, I love the way you implemented the sliding hooks.

And push-pins on the side panels would really increase the weight. They have to get mounted on the side panels somehow, and that's not really possible with 1mm thick steel unless I'm mistaken, except you don't are about their bases being seen from the outside. That wouldn't be an issue with the front panel, it would fold over where you'd normally see bases of the pins, but for the side panels, that really matters.
 
You're essentially correct, though the powder coating might conceal any surface distortion on the opposite side of the pins - I'm not entirely sure.

Assuming that a manufacturer we go with could make the pin and clip system, you'd basically get:

  1. A cleaner exterior and simpler panels (flat sheets for each panel, rather than sheets that fold over themselves or onto other edges, or have hooks)
  2. An easier time (tooless, even) of removing and installing panels
...at the cost of heavier panels, compared to those that use sliding hooks. Though the specifics of this - let alone the possibility - aren't really known until we can ask the people who will be building it.

Still, I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on this - do you all prefer the pin-and-clip system, a-la Evolv/M1/PC-V355, etc? Or do you prefer the more traditional sliding hooks?
 
PlayfulPhoenix said:
You're essentially correct, though the powder coating might conceal any surface distortion on the opposite side of the pins - I'm not entirely sure.

Assuming that a manufacturer we go with could make the pin and clip system, you'd basically get:

  1. A cleaner exterior and simpler panels (flat sheets for each panel, rather than sheets that fold over themselves or onto other edges, or have hooks)
  2. An easier time (tooless, even) of removing and installing panels
...at the cost of heavier panels, compared to those that use sliding hooks. Though the specifics of this - let alone the possibility - aren't really known until we can ask the people who will be building it.

Still, I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on this - do you all prefer the pin-and-clip system, a-la Evolv/M1/PC-V355, etc? Or do you prefer the more traditional sliding hooks?
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Absolutely pin-and-clip!
 
PlayfulPhoenix said:
Still, I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on this - do you all prefer the pin-and-clip system, a-la Evolv/M1/PC-V355, etc? Or do you prefer the more traditional sliding hooks?
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Honestly, the push-pin system of the M1 is probably about the only thing I really hate on my M1. I haven't had my panels off *that* many times, but have already broken a few of the plastic retainer clips (and quickly ordered a crap load of spares from W360 because of this). And even worse, I always seem to slightly warp my panels each time I take them off or put them back on without doing it just perfectly (and I'm incredibly cautious and careful each time). The folded front panel is rigid enough, that it doesn't warp or flex, but I've broken clips there too.

I've long wished that my M1 would've had folded edges and sliding hooks with rear thumb screws, like my other Lian Li case. It just looks and functions so much better imo.
 
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