Kimera Industries Cerberus: The 18L, mATX, USA-made enclosure

Thanks.I remeber that Aibohphobia(having real problems with the name here :) ) told me there was a poll on wether to have the extra slot or not and that people voted yes.Since ive missed this i was wandering if many people voted yes to the extra slot and im the strange one for still not being convinced that is extremly necesarry?
 
Here's the results from that poll: http://strawpoll.me/2993070/r

I was actually surprised how many people wanted that extra slot, though I suspect a good portion of them just like the idea of possibly running SLI in the future but will just end up with a single card.
 
5 slots is a pretty big deal for me. Love the fact that this has it while still being so small. If I want ! card only I use itx.
 
majic12 said:
I remeber that Aibohphobia told me there was a poll on wether to have the extra slot or not and that people voted yes.Since ive missed this i was wandering if many people voted yes to the extra slot and im the strange one for still not being convinced that is extremly necesarry?
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Aibohphobia said:
I was actually surprised how many people wanted that extra slot, though I suspect a good portion of them just like the idea of possibly running SLI in the future but will just end up with a single card.
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jalex3 said:
5 slots is a pretty big deal for me. Love the fact that this has it while still being so small. If I want ! card only I use itx.
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SLI is far from the only benefit of that fifth slot. From a little while ago:

PlayfulPhoenix said:
It's worth going through the reasons as to why there's a fifth slot in the first place. Namely:

  • For dual-GPU configurations, having a fifth expansion slot allows for graphics cards to be spaced by one slot, which considerably improves top-card temperatures.
  • For those who want to have plenty of local storage, the room afforded by the fifth expansion slot allows for a 3.5" drive to be installed without blocking any PCI slots on the motherboard.
  • If cooling or positive pressure is a concern, you can also install bottom-mounted fans without blocking PCI slots.
  • A fifth slot makes a bottom-mounted radiator much more practical (assuming it fits across other dimensions), since it lends considerable vertical space before you start blocking PCI slots (you can block as few as one with a thin rad and fans). This is particularly good for AIO's.
  • Finally, as few know what the future holds, the additional space and extra expansion slot provide flexibility for whatever hardware (and resultant configurations) someone might want down the road.
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redivulpis said:
Interesting, looks like it'd be a great candidate for a nice little single-card WC setup. Might even be able to get away with a thicker bottom rad once you figure in the space savings of a full-coverage water block.
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I really like how well the Alphacool ST30 fits, since you can use full-sized 120mm fans, and get a solid-performing 240mm radiator installed, at the cost of losing only one PCI slot on the motherboard. But if you wanted something thicker, you'd only really be limited by the number of PCI slots you want to retain.

The one big caveat with any bottom-mounted radiators is that the width is pretty constrained - the Swiftech MCR220-QP-RES-R2 we tested is only 4mm wider than the ST30, but that's enough where it can't clear the panel tabs, and prohibitively blocks the motherboard headers at the bottom.

This means that most expandable AIO's, like the CM Glacer 240L, are ~1mm too wide, though Fractal Design's Kelvin S24 would work fine. For the vast majority of sealed AIO's, it should work great, though! Assuming your tubing is long enough, of course.
 
BTW, I've started in on thermal testing, trying out different fan, heatsink, and GPU combos. Started yesterday but I probably won't have time to complete it until this weekend.

Nova-00_thermal-testing-setup.jpg

Excuse the mess :p
 
Aibohphobia said:
BTW, I've started in on thermal testing, trying out different fan, heatsink, and GPU combos. Started yesterday but I probably won't have time to complete it until this weekend.
...
Excuse the mess :p
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That monitor is pure hardware porn;)
 
Aibohphobia said:
Here's the results from that poll: http://strawpoll.me/2993070/r

I was actually surprised how many people wanted that extra slot, though I suspect a good portion of them just like the idea of possibly running SLI in the future but will just end up with a single card.
Click to expand...

Thanks.Too bad there are only 65 votes for such a big thread,was hoping more :confused:
Goodluck with the tests and just a reminder when you have some new info behind the scenes please share the knoledge ;)
 
twwen2 said:
Every case should have USB ports. Nice concept so far though.
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Not to fret - the prototype eschewed any I/O to simplify and speed manufacturing, but a production run would have ports mounted on the front face, below the power switch.

The current intention is to provide two USB 3.0 ports, and HD Audio in/out.
 
xinux said:
I would love to have the same color scheme as the prototype.
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This brings up an interesting question, actually - what colors for what parts of Nova would you guys want, given total choice?

(What we'd actually be able to make would depend on available colors, MOQ, demand, and so forth, but I really just want to know what everyone's favorite color(s) or style would be :))
 
xinux said:
I would love to have the same color scheme as the prototype.
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Yeah, this color mix is surprisingly fresh and nice. Usually I always pick black though, the safe choice.

PlayfulPhoenix said:
This brings up an interesting question, actually - what colors for what parts of Nova would you guys want, given total choice?

(What we'd actually be able to make would depend on available colors, MOQ, demand, and so forth, but I really just want to know what everyone's favorite color(s) or style would be :))
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Not sure about the color options, but I guess there are at least 5 parts of the case that could be customized in terms of color: outer case, side panel, inside, power button, and the handle. Maybe the feet as well.
 
PlayfulPhoenix said:
[*]A fifth slot makes a bottom-mounted radiator much more practical (assuming it fits across other dimensions), since it lends considerable vertical space before you start blocking PCI slots (you can block as few as one with a thin rad and fans). This is particularly good for AIO's.
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Isn't a top mounted radiator the most natural, though? Aside from blocking at least one PCI slot, a bottom one either needs dust filters at the bottom if fans are pulling in air from outside, or will work hard to push air out throughout the bottom if reversed. A top mounted one with fans pushing inside case air up through a radiator avoids dust problem, and encounters least resistance in terms of moving hot air. Would require a little more space at the top though. A radiator mounted at the back is also quite ideal, however, that would be a small one.

The radiator being mountable at the movable side plate with hinges is nice though, but depends on a movable part.

I'm no water cooling expert, just pondering a little.
 
Mackan said:
Isn't a top mounted radiator the most natural, though? Aside from blocking at least one PCI slot, a bottom one either needs dust filters at the bottom if fans are pulling in air from outside, or will work hard to push air out throughout the bottom if reversed. A top mounted one with fans pushing inside case air up through a radiator avoids dust problem, and encounters least resistance in terms of moving hot air. Would require a little more space at the top though. A radiator mounted at the back is also quite ideal, however, that would be a small one.

The radiator being mountable at the movable side plate with hinges is nice though, but depends on a movable part.

I'm no water cooling expert, just pondering a little.
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As narrow as this case is, if you mounted the rad in the top, height corresponding to the thickness of the rad+fan would need to be addad to the case so it wouldn't interfere with the mobo. Thermally I dont think it would matter at all.
 
Mackan said:
Isn't a top mounted radiator the most natural, though?
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Not sure what you mean about 'natural'. It's maybe because most case manufacturers have found this an easy place to add a mounting point for rad/fans. And common wisdom is that fans should blow the same direction as natural convection "to get the hot air out". Unfortunately, that last is untrue: a radiator which is fed warm case air is not performing optimally.

Fans should push fresh air from outside the case and through the radiator for best results. The ideal and what I would call 'natural' way to do this is, is an entirely separate radiator compartment like the Silverstone TJ07 or the CaseLabs radiator pedestals. That way fresh air is provided from one side of the case and warm air exhausted on the other side. But that is a bulky solution, unsuitable for SFF forum...

So a bottom, front or side radiator, with fans intaking is better for a small case like this. Dust filters would be needed wherever air enters the case. Or just regular cleaning.
 
WiSK said:
Not sure what you mean about 'natural'. It's maybe because most case manufacturers have found this an easy place to add a mounting point for rad/fans. And common wisdom is that fans should blow the same direction as natural convection "to get the hot air out". Unfortunately, that last is untrue: a radiator which is fed warm case air is not performing optimally.

Fans should push fresh air from outside the case and through the radiator for best results. The ideal and what I would call 'natural' way to do this is, is an entirely separate radiator compartment like the Silverstone TJ07 or the CaseLabs radiator pedestals. That way fresh air is provided from one side of the case and warm air exhausted on the other side. But that is a bulky solution, unsuitable for SFF forum...

So a bottom, front or side radiator, with fans intaking is better for a small case like this. Dust filters would be needed wherever air enters the case. Or just regular cleaning.
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I know what you mean, and I agree. Fresh cool air makes radiators perform better. Feels a bit strange to populate the case with hot air though. As you say, a separate compartment is ideal.
 
There isn't room for a rad up top, there's barely room for a slim 120mm fan.

I was thinking though of changing the front 120mm fan mounting holes to vertical slots. We're considering some changes that would allow the PSU to shift up which would leave just enough room for some AIO rads in front with a SFX PSU.

Would be an interesting option for ITX video cards. Thoughts?


Also, what do you guys think of different colors for the frame?

rwhH1gf.jpg
 
I like the color scheme. You could have the interior painted in several colors (red, green, blue, white, black) and have the exterior panels available in white and black. This would allow 10 color combinations on it's own.

Having an AIO cooler in front limits the GPU's length to how much ? It seems like a nice option, especially with the GTX 970 mITX cards and hopefully some future Radeon products too.
 
Aibohphobia said:
There isn't room for a rad up top, there's barely room for a slim 120mm fan.

I was thinking though of changing the front 120mm fan mounting holes to vertical slots. We're considering some changes that would allow the PSU to shift up which would leave just enough room for some AIO rads in front with a SFX PSU.

Would be an interesting option for ITX video cards. Thoughts?


Also, what do you guys think of different colors for the frame?

[snip]
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Excellent idea on the mounting holes. Very minor change to the design that opens a few more options. As for the colors, I agree with Phuncz. 10-color combo sounds like a good meet in the middle. Maybe if there's enough interest you could do a premium run with custom colors or something. Personally I wouldn't mind something like a dark battleship grey frame with flat black panels. That'd look pretty sick :D
 
Phuncz said:
I like the color scheme. You could have the interior painted in several colors (red, green, blue, white, black) and have the exterior panels available in white and black. This would allow 10 color combinations on it's own.
Click to expand...

redivulpis said:
As for the colors, I agree with Phuncz. 10-color combo sounds like a good meet in the middle. Maybe if there's enough interest you could do a premium run with custom colors or something. Personally I wouldn't mind something like a dark battleship grey frame with flat black panels. That'd look pretty sick :D
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It's a ton of fun to play around with color schemes, but we would be remiss not to make clear that we have no idea how many different colors we'll be able to provide, come time for production - that's something that will be determined by manufacturer limitations and actual demand for Nova.

Still, one thing we hope to do is find a way to offer parts that people can order, for the sake of robust color customization. So, different colored panel sets, or perhaps even individual panels (front, sides, top), that builders can buy so as to easily create their own styles. Heck, even for the power button, we've gone with a standard anti-vandal switch, which is itself very customizable since they are swappable and readily available. (If you couldn't tell, customization is something we really want to provide where we can :D)

Again, though, we know little about fabrication -- from color options, to the end price -- until we've nailed down a relationship with a company that meets our needs. So just bear that in mind!

Phuncz said:
Having an AIO cooler in front limits the GPU's length to how much ? It seems like a nice option, especially with the GTX 970 mITX cards and hopefully some future Radeon products too.
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redivulpis said:
Excellent idea on the mounting holes. Very minor change to the design that opens a few more options.
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You'd be all but limited to mITX cards if you did a front-mounted AIO, so it wouldn't be something you'd want if you cared about highest-performance gaming above all else. But there are certain configs that could benefit from that option, particularly if you wanted to mount things to the bottom (or use all of your PCI slots) since a bottom-mounted AIO would potentially prevent that.

Plus, as redivulpis mentioned, this is essentially free functionality to add, so we'd be remiss not to ;)
 
Quick update: Aiboh has completed most of the testing we set out to have done, and we're consequently beginning to look at the results and conduct some analysis! As a total statistics and data nerd, I'm more than a little excited about this :D

Here's a taste of the information we're working with (in this case, a screenshot of a comparison I'm doing across configs that do/don't have a top fan):

3Rn8EaA.png


As we learn from all of this data, we'll share updates with you guys, and get your input. I'll also be writing an in-depth piece on our blog, with regards to how we're leveraging this testing to improve Nova's design.
 
Hey all, Aiboh wrote about Nova on the buildapc subreddit, and I think his post acts as a really great summary of the story of Nova, and of everything that's transpired on the forums. It's a fun read, chock-full of photos and nice anecdotal details that can easily get lost. Certainly worth a perusal for anyone that's been following the work on Nova, I think :)
 
PlayfulPhoenix said:
Hey all, Aiboh wrote about Nova on the buildapc subreddit, and I think his post acts as a really great summary of the story of Nova, and of everything that's transpired on the forums. It's a fun read, chock-full of photos and nice anecdotal details that can easily get lost. Certainly worth a perusal for anyone that's been following the work on Nova, I think :)
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Awesome write-up!! :cool:

Really nice publicity going on, kudos bro!
Even makes me proud for being involved from the beginning :)

For the top card temp, I know from experience that side fans help (sometimes even as exhaust, depending on the card). I know however that the case is small and only the reference cards may fit with side fans. Still, would you consider a redesign of the side panel and bracket to accommodate two 92mm fans? I think you should first test the effectiveness of that idea with a cardboard solution, and see. Don't forget to try the exhaust alternative too ;)
 
Preliminary analysis of the thermal testing has been done and it appears the top fan is actually not that helpful, it only makes a few degrees difference in CPU and PSU exhaust temp at most. There are possibly a few configurations where it would make sense but I think those are edge cases.

So if we eliminate it we could shave a bit of space off the top of the case and redistribute it at the bottom and to the width for better 3.5" HDD and 240mm radiator clearance without increasing the overall volume.

Which brings me to my question, how important is the carry handle to you all?

Vote here

I personally love it but machining something like that is relatively expensive. Before it made sense since the mounting bracket doubled as a fan mount but with the top fan gone it is harder to justify.

Doing away with it entirely would reduce the cost of the case and simplify logistics since there would only need to be one top panel design instead of two (one panel with the mounting holes and one without).

@theGryphon Don't worry, testing those side fans are on my to do list :)
 
^ From the data PP posted, it appeared that way.
I totally support getting rid of the top fan and the handle, saving some space off the top, and even saving some volume overall if possible.
 
I think the carry handle should be an optional extra. If it is as expensive as you said (30$-50$), leaving it out will bring the total price of the case below 200$, which may be increase the interest. Not that isn't going to sell well, this case is absolutely unique on the market, but it may sell even better when you can offer a cheaper version without a handle.
 
I think the support structure should be there for anyone that would want to add their own handle, but as can be seen in the poll the majority of people don't want to pay extra for the handle they might or might not even want in the first place.

I don't know how often a case like this is carried for long enough of a duration where the handle is needed but not the extra protection afforded by a bag or box.
 
^ I don't think the support structure should be there "just in case" someone may put their own handles.

Like you said, if anyone was to carry this case long enough for a handle to come handy, they would most likely rather use a bag for protection and stealth.

I know Aiboh likes it, and it does look cool, but its use case is very limited, it doesn't justify the added cost and bulk, IMHO.
 
vipz said:
I think the support structure should be there for anyone that would want to add their own handle, but as can be seen in the poll the majority of people don't want to pay extra for the handle they might or might not even want in the first place.

I don't know how often a case like this is carried for long enough of a duration where the handle is needed but not the extra protection afforded by a bag or box.
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What I may do is leaving the mounting holes in the frame but save the bracket and handle for a later date when/if there's enough demand.
 
And call it: the "Transporter Upgrade Kit" for $ 49,99 - ORDER NOW !
 
Quick update, all: I've just finished a post on the KI blog, summarizing some of the thermal testing and analysis Aiboh and I have been working on for the past month or so. I invite you all to navigate to the site and read up!

In addition, and perhaps more importantly, we've opened up our entire testing & analysis workbook to the public, and will continue to work inside that living document, so that any updates or new data are instantly shared and viewable for everyone. You can drop in on that document anytime by navigating here.

Currently, we're looking at possible design changes to Nova that leverage the new information we've been learning throughout this process. I'm very excited to see where that takes us, so stay tuned for future updates to that end :D
 
@Gryphon, tried the side fans. I just left the panel off entirely since there wouldn't be much left of a cardboard one once I cut out vents anyway. I also used 120mm fans like you see in the pic since there wasn't room inside the case since I'm using the Asus DirectCU GTX 780.

I figure a non-reference cooler would be a better test of the side fans. Couldn't actually use them with this Asus but there are some narrow non-ref cards like from Zotac.

l0OdPlBl.jpg


With the two bottom fans intaking and the two side fans exhausting but without the fans on the top and rear running the GPU temps were actually higher than the same setup without the side fans.

Same as above but with the side fans intaking dropped GPU temp several degrees.

So it is effective when used as intake, which is suprising, I would have thought they'd perform better as exhaust. There's still the problem that they won't fit when used with wide cards which is most non-ref cards these days though so I still don't think it'll be a default option.

I may include mounting holes on the frame though, so if there is demand for it later it could be offered as an option.
 
The handle must stay, its been part of the package from day 1. I really want the handle. I use a handle frequently. I will pay extra or fabricate my own. At least leave the structural capability.
 
djblanco said:
The handle must stay, its been part of the package from day 1. I really want the handle. I use a handle frequently. I will pay extra or fabricate my own. At least leave the structural capability.
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Actually day 3 ;)

The bracket wouldn't be too expensive, it's the handle itself that's the issue. One option I just thought of would be to make a STL file available so the handle could be 3d printed.
 
Stopping in to express my support for at least mounting points for a handle. The handle is a big part of what got me interested in this case.

Maybe look up what the most common spacing for handle mounting is, and use that? Then people might be able to stop off at a hardware store and buy their own handle to slap on. Or double holes so people can make their own handle out of paracord for dirt cheap. Just throwing ideas out there :D
 
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