kicking the 2-302 up a notch

W

weapon--

Gawd
Joined
May 29, 2001
Messages
964
as some may recall, I have been playing around with the 2-302 (aka '77 b'ville w/ac) core for some time now. the major PITA prob with them seems to be the shroud and how they are constructed. sooooooooooooo........

I broke out the cad-ware and took a different route this time. skipped the JB Weld, blew off the torch and shot this one straight to the CNC shop:
shrdpr.jpg


18 gauge steel, cnc bent and cut, venturi design, seam welded corners. :)

it's amazing how strong 18g steel becomes once bent and the seams are welded -- I almost blew out an eyeball trying to deform one of the bastages.
 
Those look nice, would you give any kind of price figure for fabrication? What exactly is the "venturi design"?
 
zer0signal667 said:
Those look nice, would you give any kind of price figure for fabrication? What exactly is the "venturi design"?
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venturi design = all four side panels taper inward from the point where they contact the face of the core up to the top plate where the fans are mounted (i.e. the top plate is approx. the same width as the outer edges of a 120mm fan). It helps smooth out airflow through the core.

price if it were produced on a large scale? dunno yet (I'll PM you with info when I get it nailed down) I'm still tweaking the design. I need to modify the base dimensions slightly and rework the fan spacing and cutouts a little. There is a still a little performance that can be squeaked out of them in those areas.

I'm going to get a nice finish on one of them and mount it to a new b'ville core this afternoon for testing. They look amazingly good up close - everything is symmetrical and the angles are perfect. The 18 gauge is tough as hell - once it is bent and the corners are seam welded, they feel about as rigid as a tire iron. :) I wish I could afford the machinery that made these...

anyway, after I get the shroud finished, I'm going to start modding the cores for more performance again. I thought I had just about finished off that process and then a new idea popped into my head this week. So, I did a little research and discovered another way to improve upon the 302 (which is already excellent). I'm stuck waiting on supplies before I can test it but on paper it works...this one should throw it over the top. :D
 
Giblet Plus! said:
looks great

does it have a divider in the middle?
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thanks.

as for the divider, nope - not yet anyway. I'm trying to figure out a way to get a divider in there without driving the final cost thru the roof but I'm not sure if it will be possible. With the current design, it would require CNC'ing out another piece and then welding it in place which = more machine time, more materials and more welder hours = $$.

I have one here that I am adding a divider into - I am going to test it against one of the shroud without the divider to see how much of a difference it really makes (if any) with this design. That will at least give me a decent idea as to how much the divider is actually worth.
 
weapon-- said:
thanks.

as for the divider, nope - not yet anyway. I'm trying to figure out a way to get a divider in there without driving the final cost thru the roof but I'm not sure if it will be possible. With the current design, it would require CNC'ing out another piece and then welding it in place which = more machine time, more materials and more welder hours = $$.
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could you cnc notches into the sides of the shroud for corresponding notches on the divider to tab into?
 
Why would you want a divider? Seems like an effort in futility.

I have a similar shroud, made by RalphW at the procooling forums. Similar design, CNC cut 18 gauge steel and then CNC bent. I can vouch for a good strong design. Very cool stuff!
link to the thread
 
killernoodle said:
Why would you want a divider? Seems like an effort in futility.
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a lot of turbulence comes off the tips of the fan blades, and a divider would keep the turbulence from each fan seperate
 
Giblet Plus! said:
could you cnc notches into the sides of the shroud for corresponding notches on the divider to tab into?
Click to expand...

thought about that but it thins out a section of the shroud walls too much. We might have it solved with a variation of the 1st plan - cut a separate divider, tack weld in three locations and then add an additional sealant to make it 100% air tight. it looks like it would be performance effective and cost effective

also, the divider with 3 weld points would likely make the shroud even stronger than it already is...it is already tougher than any computer case that I'm aware of (possible exception being the cabinets used for Sun Mass Storage units which are built like fricken tanks.)

Giblet Plus! said:
a lot of turbulence comes off the tips of the fan blades, and a divider would keep the turbulence from each fan seperate
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ba-bing. you nailed that one. :)
btw, if you reversed the adjectives in the name of the club, you'd likely attract more members. :D

killernoodle said:
Why would you want a divider? Seems like an effort in futility.

I have a similar shroud, made by RalphW at the procooling forums. Similar design, CNC cut 18 gauge steel and then CNC bent. I can vouch for a good strong design. Very cool stuff!
link to the thread
Click to expand...
that would be my partner in crime. ;) We started bouncing ideas off of each other and ended up with a plan to build shrouds. :D
 
I've got one of RalphW shrouds also, install it on my custom water box I built. The shroud really helped with fan noise and dropped temps a degree or 2. Complete system is now cooling a A64 3200 S939, load temps of 35c on a Abit AV8 MoBo.
 
it looks like we have just about got the final tweaks in on the 302 shroud so the new prototype will be here fairly soon.

next project:
shroud for the 2-342
shroud for the 2-199.
:)
 
minor update on the 302 shroud - we worked out the fan cutout so fan mounting for either direction will be up to whatever airflow the fans can produce.

pic of the new fan cutouts from the underside of the shroud:
shroudfuncutout2.1.jpg


I think it is safe to say that the shroud will not block any airflow regardless of whether the fan is mounted to pull or push air now. :)

also, check out the new corners on the mounting lip - they are solid all the way around. the shroud depth is a bit more as well.

this one is currently tagged as rev. 2.1 (despite the 30+ prototypes on my bench :) )

I thought that such effort on the shroud would deserve more effort on a 2-302 core to go along with it so core upgrades for the 302 are underway in full force. :D
 
Wow great looking shroud, I only hope my efforts come remotely close to that.
 
So when are they going up for sale? ;)

And are you going to part with any of the prototypes? It's either that or I have to go make one out of fiberglass over the next couple of days. Can't say I really want to do that if someone has some available for a good price.
 
Advil said:
So when are they going up for sale? ;)

And are you going to part with any of the prototypes? It's either that or I have to go make one out of fiberglass over the next couple of days. Can't say I really want to do that if someone has some available for a good price.
Click to expand...

Whenever I get the last version in, I'll likely be putting some up in the classifieds section per forum rules.

in any event, here's another pic of the latest revision:
shrd2.1sideview.jpg
 
Nice. What do those screws hold on to? There's nothing there on my core. Is there going to be some kind of bracket that goes around the back?
 
Advil said:
Nice. What do those screws hold on to? There's nothing there on my core. Is there going to be some kind of bracket that goes around the back?
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nope. those were being used to check for clearance - when mounting to the case, it will use 4 threaded rods thru those holes so there is no need to run threaded rods thru the core for mounting it. the fans will mount directly to the shroud using 6 x 32 machine screws with nuts.

no more threading anything through the fins for mounting. :D
 
update - just got some good news from the shop - it looks like at least the first batch will have the divider plate between the fans so it will be a split-chamber shroud. :D
 
Giblet Plus! said:
a lot of turbulence comes off the tips of the fan blades, and a divider would keep the turbulence from each fan seperate
Click to expand...

You are probably right, but also, with any slight pressure difference in the fans, the air pressure would be different on the different sections of the rad. Dont know if it matters, but it should at least let the pressure between the fans and the rad equalize across the face of the rad.
 
the final revision of the 302 shroud has been checked, double checked and triple checked - it's now being CNC'ed. :D With any luck, the first ones will be here within 2 weeks so I'll get some pics up of the final version as soon as they arrive.

side note on the 342 shrouds - we have ran into a bit of a design issue with those due to the tight spacing on it so it will be a bit longer before that one is finished.
 
Tunabow said:
Whats the height on these things?
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you mean for the shroud alone or the shroud + the core and fans?

the shroud puts about 1.5" of standoff between the fans and the core to kill out the airflow deadspot under the fans. The cores are about 2" thick, the fans are 38mm. The final revision is on its way to me now so I will be able to post some more exact numbers including the sealing tape, etc. once it arrives.
 
yeah, i just barbed my heatercore last night and im very interested in this shroud if the price is right. so itll be about 5 inches total correct? or more precisely 4.5?
 
Don't care about height, just performance. ;) Taller is better if it cools more efficiently.
 
I only have a minute or two before I have to hit the door with bags in hand (outta town for a few days) but here is an update - after a minor delay, they are finishing up the first run of the newest revision this week - they include the divider plate, the new fan cutouts for max airflow, slightly improved dimensions and they are black powdercoat finish. to sum that up, we beat our heads against the wall until we couldn't figure out any way to make them any better. they should be shipping out to me at the end of this week so I should have some pics up before long. I think the 302 shroud has been nailed dead center with this one. :D

I think total height with 38mm fans, the core, fan grills, etc. will be closer to 5.5" :)
 
Tunabow said:
yeah i have to make my own unfortunately, 5.5 wont fit in my LiLi.
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I'd be more then willing to find a creative way to mount it, or get a different case if this combo does perform nice enough.

Are you going to be doing sales of say, the heatercore/shroud/fans all togethor? If so, any idea on a price?

I like my DTek Pro Heatercore, but that just looks like it'll end up being so much nicer, and already is.....along with the 38mm fans as opposed to my single 25mm.
 
cornelious0_0 said:
I'd be more then willing to find a creative way to mount it, or get a different case if this combo does perform nice enough.

Are you going to be doing sales of say, the heatercore/shroud/fans all togethor? If so, any idea on a price?

I like my DTek Pro Heatercore, but that just looks like it'll end up being so much nicer, and already is.....along with the 38mm fans as opposed to my single 25mm.
Click to expand...

I am looking at combos and I think I have a deal worked out to get the cores and the fans in large enough quantities so that combos will be possible -- they will likely be a bit more than just the core + shroud + fans as far as the parts are concerned as I hate sending out anything that looks half finished to me. In other words, there will be a little more to it than just bolting all the parts together but the end result will be very sweet. :)

the newest revision of core mods is next on the agenda - the rest of the hardware and chemicals required for this one should be here within the next week with any luck so maybe I can get all of it setup and the first testing done over x-mas. oddly enough, my first dual 120 core how-to was written over a christmas break. this one should be as interesting.

as for the first batch of 302 shrouds should be here in a few days...hopefully before Dec 17.
shrdotwtg.jpg


almost forgot, the first prototype of the 342 shroud and the 199 shroud should be done this week and we are going to be checking it for fit and function. it is moving along nicely but there is no final ETA as of yet.
 
I'll definitely continue to watch this thread.....as If I do decide to pick up another YY-0221 cube case and mod a phase change system into it, I'll end up wanting a nice dual rad like this so that I can pelt my NB and GPU and have cooling power left to spare. :D
 
sweet can't wait to see the finished product and to see how much they are. maybe ill hold off on buying fans if you might be doing some type of deal with fans and shroud.
 
the finished product (at least the 2-302 version) looks like...
rev2.1shrdfinal.jpg


shipping company says they will be here this week. :D
 
Dude, contact me as soon as you get them, I am interested in buying one. How much do you charge?
 
I'm getting a full 2-302 heatercore with shroud (and mounting supplies) from him, and I can't wait :D

I'd splurge the price quote, but I'm not sure if he wants that sort of thing kept to PM, so I'll keep my mouth shut. Cathar is the god of waterblocks, and in my opinion, Weapon is the god of shrouds and heatercores :)
 
celebrity? is asia still on the forums?? ;)

pic of the latest core/shroud combo from the weapon lair:
shrdcoreblumet.jpg
 
looks really nice. can't wait to get a price quote - i might buy one. i'd just have to go fix the barbs on my heatercore first.

what colors will be available? is that powdercoating/something else special or just spraypaint on there?
 
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