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Kentsfield Temp issue?

T

TheBlank

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
164
Okay, I finally got my new comp parts in the other day and took the time to build my machine.

The only issue that I'm running into is my CPU temp. I'm using a Kentsfield with a Corsair Nautilus 500 water cooler filled with Liquid XP extreme. All of this resides within an Antec P180 case with the upper level HD bay converted into a fan duct (mostly for the GPU).

However, I'm getting wildly varying idle/partial load temps. At idle in bios I've watched it climb from 22C to 30C and stick. But within XP, I'll see 45c all the way up to 55 at idle. And with partial load, it hits around 60 but never over.

The reason I'm asking is because I was under the impression that the water cooling cooled better than this. I haven't even overclocked yet, and I'm worried that I just won't have enough thermal headroom.

Now, I didn't like the way the water block shifted around while mounting onto the CPU. I didn't think that would be very good for keeping the Arctic Silver even. However, there wasn't much chance of keeping it still due to the way you have to mount the retainer.

Am I worried about nothing here, or is there something I can do (other than the obvious and re-mount). This computer is going to be on constantly.

Thanks.
 
the bios doesn't read the same temps TAT does which is probably why your experiencing that jump as for why your idling so high I'm not sure just try reseating the thing :)
 
The reason it's idling and loading so high is the water cooling kit that you're using isn't that great for that kind of heat load. Swapping a new radiator into the Nautilus will help a bit but if you want to get 3.2-3.4 out of the Kentsfield you will need to get a higher performing kit or part your own together. I've just upgraded from a PA120.1 to a PA120.2 because of heat issues with my quad core and don't recommend anything less than a dual 120mm radiator for Kentsfield if you plan to overclock it.

The Nautilus is good for single and dual core but Kentsfield is one very hot beast.
 
Guess I'm going to have to wait to overclock this setup for a bit. Just don't have enough cash to spend more on yet ANOTHER cooling solution.

Anyways, it dropped down to about 45 idle, but when I use TAT for load testing it rockets up to about 68 - 69. I'm going to re-seat the block in the next day or so, but I'm not looking forward to that. The block just slides around so much when I'm trying to lock it into place.

What's the best method for placing AS5 on the CPU for the best "spread"? I usually just place a glob on the cpu and then spread it around with a razor blade (art student/former Comp Sci student, I have tons of them around). But I keep hearing about just placing a glob the shape and size of a grain of uncooked rice on the surface and allowing the block to spread the AS5, or placing a "stripe" of AS5 with the same idea in mind.

Btw, what core temp should I be trying to avoid overclock or not? I've been looking everywhere, and Intel says 65 but there are tons of other people that say anywhere from 80 - 93.


EDIT:

Not sure if this really matters or not. I mounted the PCI pass through for the tubes near the bottom of my case,so the tubes do run below my BFG 8800 GTS. Now, to my hand, it doesn't feel any warmer below the card than it does above it, but should I move the pass through anyways? Could the heat from the vid card be adding heat to my water as it's coming into the case?
 
Okay, here we go.

quad1.jpg


Please excuse the horrible cabling at the moment. This build is only 2 days old and I want to get all the kinks worked out before I start tidying up. That way I don't have to keep undoing so many setups if I keep having to adjust parts and sections.

As you can see, I have the tubing passing beneath the BFG 8800 GTS through a lower section of the case. The air above and below the card seems to be about the same temperature, but would it be a better idea to have the pass through be above the video card instead?

There are three Antec Tri-cool fans in use here, all on the lowest settings. Two at the top, and I took the one that fits in the PSU section out and placed it on the upper HDD cage as a GPU cooler. Gets a little squeazy in there with the length of the board (thank god it's not a GTX... could never do that) but I felt the additional cooling was a good idea.

But right now... it doesn't seem to matter.

As of right now, with Firefox, trillian, a few folders, and NOD32 running, my temps are:

Core 0: 46
Core 1: 47
Core 2: 47
Core 3: 45


I keep finding review after review for this cooler saying that it cools really really well and is an excellent water cooler... and reviews for overclocking Kentsfields where they use this cooler because they wanted "tons of thermal headroom"....

However now I'm hearing that this is a low end option and this is the performance I should expect? I'm very confused about all of this. I'm seriously considering just scrapping the water cooler and seeing how a Zalman would do if re-mounting (or some other solution) doesn't solve the issue.
 
You're assuming that you have a heat problem with your quad; you don't. Thermal protection for the C2D's kicks in at 80-85c (TAT temp), but for the C2Q it's 95-100c! The quad is designed to handle much higher temps.

For lots of info on the quad and heat go to www.xtremesystems.com. Members are running their C2Q's at 80c+ without batting an eyelash. Again it's made to handle temps this high.

People who run the quad need to readjust their thinking - it's not a single, it's not a dual, it's a quad and it comes with all new specs. Before you spend time and money trying to lower your temps do the research, all the info is out there.
 
I'm still seeing people who are overclocking their Kentsfields, with air cooling no less, and getting 38 C at load.

Hell, Toms Hardware did a test of the Kentsfield early on, and although they never explained what their cooler of choice was, the load temps were closer to my idle temps.

I re-mounted the water block, dropped 2 degrees on two cores, gained two on the others. But the load no longer goes above 64 instead of the 75 I was getting. So I'll take that as a good sign. I guess I'll have to wait and see if the AS5 needs to "bake" a little more before it reaches peak performance, but I'm still nonplussed compared to the other setups I'm seeing.

So Wagoogee, you're saying that at the temps I'm getting right now, and bearing in mind that this comp will be left on for days if not weeks at a time, that I can go ahead and overclock and expect 2 years of life out of it with temps lower than 95?.
 
What I'm saying is that if you do the research, both at intel.com and various forums dedicated to extreme performance and overclocking, you will learn that the C2Q is designed to operate at very high temps. Don't take my word for it, do the legwork as I did, then decide for yourself what the acceptable temps for your setup are. The link in my previous post is a good place to start.

As an FYI, my working range is 49c-79c. My processor doesn't begin to throttle until 97c. I'm not talking about shutdown here, this is the throttling temp. These readings come from coretemp and tat so I know they're accurate. Others are seeing throttling temps in the range of 95-105c. I know, these sound crazy, insane even, but the quad is a different beast.

BTW, those lower temps that your reading about are not the core temp of the processor, they are from external analog sensors. What you need to do is to download coretemp or tat. These access the digital thermometer that's inside the processors core and will give you the actual temp that the processor itself bases it's throttling on. Coretemp can be found at http://www.thecoolest.zerobrains.com/CoreTemp/. Run that and report your idle and load temps.
 
wagoogee said:
You're assuming that you have a heat problem with your quad; you don't. Thermal protection for the C2D's kicks in at 80-85c (TAT temp), but for the C2Q it's 95-100c! The quad is designed to handle much higher temps.

For lots of info on the quad and heat go to www.xtremesystems.com. Members are running their C2Q's at 80c+ without batting an eyelash. Again it's made to handle temps this high.

People who run the quad need to readjust their thinking - it's not a single, it's not a dual, it's a quad and it comes with all new specs. Before you spend time and money trying to lower your temps do the research, all the info is out there.
Click to expand...

Do you have a better link than just the top level? I've got a QX6700 and I was concerned about the heat as well. I tried looking on Xtremesystems but didn't really find anything like what you mentioned.
 
JethroXP said:
Do you have a better link than just the top level? I've got a QX6700 and I was concerned about the heat as well. I tried looking on Xtremesystems but didn't really find anything like what you mentioned.
Click to expand...

The info is spread all over the place on many forums. However, here's an example of what others are getting, some on water:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=127316&highlight=kentsfield

You also have to search intel's web site for the tech specs. Lots of info there but it takes some digging.

Here's a suggestion. Go to the above web site, register, and ask the question: "Is a load temp of 60-70c for the quad ok?". You'll get your answer.
 
Okay, yeah I was talking about core temp. It could be that they were only talking about socket temp, I'll give you that. That will go a long ways to alay my worries about the longevity of this chip. I have been using core temp and TAT from the beginning, but thanks for the point in the right direction.

Right now my socket temp is 29, while the core temp is 45. At idle.

I thought I had been doing the legwork before I even committed to the chip. And then I find out afterwards that everything I was lead to believe was wrong...
 
I am having the same problem getting temps under control on my Kentsfield. Using a Tuniq Tower 120 / AS5 / with fans on max with a ThermalTake Armor case my idle temps are around 43-45 depending on room temps and undle when running multiple instances of Orthos small TFT's my temps soar as high as 90-92C. I thought maybe my Tower was seated properly and tried reseating things, but temps remained the same.

I am running stock voltage on everything right now, with only a modest FSB boost to get 355FSB on my Bad Axe 2. One other thing I have been by others at XtremeSys is that the Intel boards read temps anywhere from 15-20C higher than the other boards such as the Asus models, and the temps given by utils maybe actually higher than they are.

Still, having my $1400 chip hitting near 100C scares the shit out of me.

Blank - have you tried two instances of small TFT Orthos? Using Prime 95 and 3DSMax for rendering, my load temps rarely hit above high 60's at load, but Orthos small TFT drives the temps into the high 80's / low 90's. Note that if you do run the program you have to manually change the affinity of the second instance of the program to take advantage of your extra cores or otherwise it will just stress two of them.
 
loafer87gt said:
I am having the same problem getting temps under control on my Kentsfield. Using a Tuniq Tower 120 / AS5 / with fans on max with a ThermalTake Armor case my idle temps are around 43-45 depending on room temps and undle when running multiple instances of Orthos small TFT's my temps soar as high as 90-92C. I thought maybe my Tower was seated properly and tried reseating things, but temps remained the same.

I am running stock voltage on everything right now, with only a modest FSB boost to get 355FSB on my Bad Axe 2. One other thing I have been by others at XtremeSys is that the Intel boards read temps anywhere from 15-20C higher than the other boards such as the Asus models, and the temps given by utils maybe actually higher than they are.

Still, having my $1400 chip hitting near 100C scares the shit out of me.

Blank - have you tried two instances of small TFT Orthos? Using Prime 95 and 3DSMax for rendering, my load temps rarely hit above high 60's at load, but Orthos small TFT drives the temps into the high 80's / low 90's. Note that if you do run the program you have to manually change the affinity of the second instance of the program to take advantage of your extra cores or otherwise it will just stress two of them.
Click to expand...

Your Tuniq Tower 120 should be cooling a lot better than my Zalman 9500, and I've never seen mine go higher than 85' C. Here is my post in the Conroe overclocking database thread, notice the temps shown in Everest:

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1030426461&postcount=23

In that screenshot I had been running four copies of SP2004 for over four hours (that's the single threaded version of Orthos, because even with setting CPU affinity and running two copies of Orthos I had trouble loading all four cores, but with the single threaded version it is simple to do).

My core temps varied from 72' - 75' C. However my ambient temp was fairly low (about 16' C compared with 22' C normally). Initially during testing I was seeing core temps of 82' - 85' C and that concerned me as well, so for most of the test I opened my office window just above my PC and allowed cold air (5' C) from outside to come in. I'm not suggesting that as a method of cooling your CPU, just trying to explain why my temps are low in that screenshot.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that even at normal room temperature my QX6700 overclocked to 3.2GHz (at 1.35V) was "only" hitting 85' C. Your cooler should be more efficient than mine, so unless your room temperature was pretty warm, I'd guess that you have a cooling problem. Perhaps unseat the Tuniq, clean it and the top of the CPU with rubbing alcohol, apply a fresh bead of Arctic Silver or similar high-end thermal compound, re-seat the heatsink and try again.
 
My room temp in my apartment is ~23C to 24C (nice and toasty) so this could make up for some of the difference. As soon as I have some more time I am going to set everything up on my kitchen table and try the chip with the retail heatsink and see what sort of temps I get with it, and if they are any better than the TT.
 
loafer87gt said:
I am having the same problem getting temps under control on my Kentsfield. Using a Tuniq Tower 120 / AS5 / with fans on max with a ThermalTake Armor case my idle temps are around 43-45 depending on room temps and undle when running multiple instances of Orthos small TFT's my temps soar as high as 90-92C. I thought maybe my Tower was seated properly and tried reseating things, but temps remained the same.

I am running stock voltage on everything right now, with only a modest FSB boost to get 355FSB on my Bad Axe 2. One other thing I have been by others at XtremeSys is that the Intel boards read temps anywhere from 15-20C higher than the other boards such as the Asus models, and the temps given by utils maybe actually higher than they are.

Still, having my $1400 chip hitting near 100C scares the shit out of me.

Blank - have you tried two instances of small TFT Orthos? Using Prime 95 and 3DSMax for rendering, my load temps rarely hit above high 60's at load, but Orthos small TFT drives the temps into the high 80's / low 90's. Note that if you do run the program you have to manually change the affinity of the second instance of the program to take advantage of your extra cores or otherwise it will just stress two of them.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that coretemp and tat read from the processor itself so it *should* be independent of the motherboard. I know that different mobo's vary quite a bit with regards to socket temp.

I too run the BadAxe2 with bios 2395. I'm running 11X303 at 1.4v. My Orthos max temps (after 6hrs) are 83c. I used the tat full load test to push the temps way up to learn where it starts to throttle.

BTW, you can also use Intel's Desktop Control Center to discover how much headroom your processor has before it begins to throttle. The Cpu TCC reading shows that. The coretemp web site explains why it's a negative number. Since by definition any temp below that is "safe" then there shouldn't be any issue with regards to lifespan of the cpu running at high temps. YMMV.
 
I cant tell from the picture but it looks like the water block holddown does not have a lot of adjustment for clamping force in it. And its not pretty :p

After you get it all sorted out perhaps you might want to make something like this:

http://mysite.verizon.net/ressdxka/id3.html

mine is H shaped but X shaped would be just as easy, 3/8 cast acrylic sheet, used old hold down as template and cut out with jig saw. wet/dry sandpaper cleaned edges up perfectly.

Used high quality springs (called die/jig springs) from macmaster.com and hardware from Lowes. you can see the marks on the knurled nuts so I could adjust the pressure equally by counting turns once I started to compress the springs.

Anyway, just a thought if you wanted to pimp it out later and I really like the ability to adjust the clamping force.
 
I too have been having temperature issues with the qx6700. My computer is a velocity micro's gamers edge with qx6700 and their Liquicool3 pro cooler. I believe this cooler is similar to CoolIT's Freezone cooler. At stock settings, I'm idling at 49C and if I load the cores with orthos for 20 minutes (using all 4 cores), my temperature rises to about 71C. Now, this is with a room temperature of around 23C. I'm using intel TAT to read the temperatures. I've been roaming different forums lately to see what temperatures people are getting. I am having an impression that the temperatures I have been getting is standard for Intel's stock cooler. It seems to me different people are getting widely different temperatures on this CPU. I don't know, maybe the qx6700 is saturating the cooling capabilities of many of the coolers on the market today.

Anyway, if I remember correctly, someone (I forgot in which forums) reported that their Tuniq tower 120 cooled qx6700 got to 68C when loaded with 4 instances of prime. His temperature was read using CoreTemp (which should give the same reading as TAT). So I think loadfer87gt's load temp of 90-92C is a little on the high side.

The reason why I am concerned about my temperature is that in one forum, someone reported that he's getting 58C at load on an overclocked qx6700 to 3.4GHz. I think he's using swiftech water cooling which to my understanding, is one of the better water cooling kit available. The fact that I'm running 13C hotter than he is and at a much lower frequency is a little disconcerting. The link to that thread is:

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/QX6700-ghz-higher-advice-ftopict213536.html

Another thread dicussing this temp issue is
http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/140621-qx6700-temps.html

If you guys find anything interesting regarding qx6700's "normal" operating temperature, please post here and let us know. I'm getting itchy fingers wanting to try a little overclocking but I dare not to at this point due to not knowing what the safe temperature is for this processor.
 
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