ITX the new SFF standard?

S

Steeeeve

2[H]4U
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So it seems lately mini-itx has become the new craze for the hardcore SFFers. It was only a few years ago when I started SFFClub.com and SFFStore.com that mATX was rarely available and often 1-2 years behind ATX. While it is still behind we see a lot more enthusiast user matx boards than we did back in the mid 2000s.

So now it seems mini-itx is where mATX was a decade ago. Is this the start of mini-itx becoming the new SFF standard?

You tell me :cool:
 
It depends on what the system's for. While I'd never try gaming on a mini-ITX system, if I wanted something for HTPC or office use with a small footprint, I'd definitely look towards mini-ITX.
 
I'm not a hardcore user, but I definitely want something in a small package, and mini-ITX seems the way to go for me.

I think in the past 6 months, there has been a growing trend in Atom based systems which is fine for that crowd, but we still need more options for socket 775 and AM2+/AM3. But the mini-ITX market is still young, has time to improve and I hope they become more mainstream next year.
 
I really want AM3, Core i7, DDR3, and 1x PCI Express 2.0. (not all on one obviouly).

Is that too much to ask :)
 
for myself i am moving to mini itx due to the size . i have had many matx systems and enjoyed them all but always wanted them smaller. this allows me to do so and i still can place a decent performing video card in this machine that will play games that i like .


Jen
 
ITX is awesome, but not full featured or small enough in my opinion!

We need something that can fit a Core i7, DDR3, and 2 - 16X PCI Express 2.0 in a as small as possible space as possible. Smaller than a shuttle, smaller than ITX :p

I can dream
 
mini-ITX is perfect for DIY WHS builds, though many m-ITX boards have insufficient SATA ports. (yeah...I'm talking to you Intel!)
 
Cliff Couser said:
mini-ITX is perfect for DIY WHS builds, though many m-ITX boards have insufficient SATA ports. (yeah...I'm talking to you Intel!)
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I'm about to start playing around with the Jetway NC92 Atom board and the SATA add-on daughterboard. That'll make 6 SATA ports total. We'll see how well that works. The goal is an offsite WHS backup using the Chenbro ES34069 and maybe a 1TB 2.5" HDD for the boot drive.
 
DTX would be such a sweet spot. IMHO most ITX cases should be designed to accommodate DTX boards to allow the use of dual slot GPUs in ITX boards, or DTX motherboards in the future. The Sugo 5 has this feature.

Two expansion slots would be near perfect for most uses.
 
Steeeeve said:
So it seems lately mini-itx has become the new craze for the hardcore SFFers. It was only a few years ago when I started SFFClub.com and SFFStore.com that mATX was rarely available and often 1-2 years behind ATX. While it is still behind we see a lot more enthusiast user matx boards than we did back in the mid 2000s.

So now it seems mini-itx is where mATX was a decade ago. Is this the start of mini-itx becoming the new SFF standard?

You tell me :cool:
Click to expand...

Fot HTPC maybe but not for the SFF gaming crowd. At this point ITX is just new and underdeveloped. Just my opinion though.
 
Dk975 said:
4 RAM slots on miniITX or DTX would be nice also. I would gladly go to mini-ITX if it had 4 RAM slots. I hate to give up my 8GB.
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I can't see this TBH. All things considered the board is just far too small physically to introduce two more ram slots.... unless they did away with the legacy adapters.

Even then I could only see them putting three in. Like the fella above me said, the only option may be to increase DIMM density.
 
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Skott said:
Fot HTPC maybe but not for the SFF gaming crowd. At this point ITX is just new and underdeveloped. Just my opinion though.
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I don't know, it's getting pretty close. Close enough that there's no way I'm ever building a desktop that's not m-itx again. I plan to build a new machine early next year, but seems right now you could build a pretty good gaming machine with http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500022, an SG-06, and any 9" or less video card with a single PCIe power connector.

I think the picture will get even better in the next few months with the i5 and with smaller, faster video cards on the horizon.
 
RonindeBeatrice said:
I can't see this TBH. All things considered the board is just far too small physically to introduce two more ram slots.... unless they did away with the legacy adapters.

Even then I could only see them putting three in. Like the fella above me said, the only option may be to increase DIMM density.
Click to expand...


Pricewise 4GBx2 is a silly move. I'd like to see them raise the mobo off the case a bit more than they do, and put components on the backside. They do it with miniPCI slots. They would have to put the slots at an angle if possible.
 
ITX isn't going to replace mATX until they can make performance PSUs smaller, make SLI/Crossfire obsolete, and cool performance parts sufficiently. Wish this would happen some time realllly soon.
 
yeps. there are other boards with more than 2 SATA ports, but some f the brands/manufacturers...I'm just not comfortable with. Especially for a WHS box that's on 24/7.
 
jvrobert said:
I don't know, it's getting pretty close. Close enough that there's no way I'm ever building a desktop that's not m-itx again. I plan to build a new machine early next year, but seems right now you could build a pretty good gaming machine with http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500022, an SG-06, and any 9" or less video card with a single PCIe power connector.

I think the picture will get even better in the next few months with the i5 and with smaller, faster video cards on the horizon.
Click to expand...

You, mentioned exactly why I dont think ITX will be the next standard and the main reason why, I, as a gamer, have no interest in ITX. It only allows for video cards up to 9inches. On the gaming side of things gamers like, want, and need those big 12" cards to run the most demanding of games at the highest possible resolutions. If, and its a big *if* the ITX rigs can start using those bigger cards then I would agree it could very well surpass mATX in popularity. After all, we SFF gamers would love to get a high end rig in a smaller package if possible.

The easier solution may be that nVidia and ATI can shrink down the size of high end performance cards into a 9inch or less package. You'd think they could anyway given the technology but in recent years GPU cards have gotten larger, not smaller. When ITX can put full mATX performance into its platform then it has the chance to become the new SFF standard. Until then its just for HTPC and light to moderate gaming. Thats ust my own opinion though. Others may agree or disagree which okay. :)
 
Skott said:
You, mentioned exactly why I dont think ITX will be the next standard and the main reason why, I, as a gamer, have no interest in ITX. It only allows for video cards up to 9inches.
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Sugo sg05 + tin snips = full size video card + itx
 
SG05/06 isn't that impossibly small y'know. When *I* think ITX, I think of those tiny ass cases. Not a Sugo that's nearly the size of its brother SG01, minus some love handles. If ITX was the new standard right now, you would have seen everyone ditch their mATXs and hopped right on the SG05 when it was released maybe half a year ago. But, jumping onto a system that's MUCH more limited and doesn't offer that much of a space improvement has proved unpopular.
 
ive built two dvr systems for security cameras, using a mini itx board, and embedded cpu.
Got to love the ability to have as much function as a full desktop, just with the dimensions of sheet of paper. (thicker of course)
 
Rockjay420 said:
ive built two dvr systems for security cameras, using a mini itx board, and embedded cpu.
Got to love the ability to have as much function as a full desktop, just with the dimensions of sheet of paper. (thicker of course)
Click to expand...

We're talking about ITX (and the hurdles) of becoming the mATX replacement for enthusiasts. What you just said doesn't do anything but say "why I <3 ITX".
 
Skott said:
You, mentioned exactly why I dont think ITX will be the next standard and the main reason why, I, as a gamer, have no interest in ITX. It only allows for video cards up to 9inches. On the gaming side of things gamers like, want, and need those big 12" cards to run the most demanding of games at the highest possible resolutions. If, and its a big *if* the ITX rigs can start using those bigger cards then I would agree it could very well surpass mATX in popularity. After all, we SFF gamers would love to get a high end rig in a smaller package if possible.
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Yeah, right now you absolutely have to make a tradeoff - very small or very powerful. For a lot of gamers (probably most) a 9800 or 4850 video card is good enough to play games on. Otherwise, by definition your case must be bigger than your video card and you're just plain out of luck.

I expect we'll see a renaissance in GPUs with respect to power usage and size in the next year or two like we did for CPUs with the AMD64 chips and Core 2 a few years ago.

Really how much more power will they need to pack into GPU's? Barring a shift to ray-tracing, GPUs will max out in a few years - they'll be able to drive super high quality 3D on a 30" monitor. Kind of like 2D - remember when you used to pick a video card based on its _2D_ performance? Nobody even thinks about that anymore.
 
jvrobert said:
Really how much more power will they need to pack into GPU's? Barring a shift to ray-tracing, GPUs will max out in a few years - they'll be able to drive super high quality 3D on a 30" monitor. Kind of like 2D - remember when you used to pick a video card based on its _2D_ performance? Nobody even thinks about that anymore.
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Watch you eat your words in a few years.
 
Game developers keep pushing the envelope and that forces GPU makers to keep coming up with more powerful video cards to run the games so I'm thinking they wont ever max out. Just my thoughts anyway.
 
Interesting responses. This is basically the same response when asked whether mATX can realistically replace ATX. I think we have pretty gotten there (granted they are not the exact same). It took about a decade though. mini ITX is probably in the 2-3 year mark but I have to say things are looking up. a few years ago you couldn't buy mini ITX anywhere and if you found it the price was $250-$350 and was 5 generations behind.

Maybe not the standard now but look for big things within the next 5-8 years.
 
I'm sure everyone here has already read this thread, but if we see this sort of case layout then I'd be sold on mini-itx. For now, matx is comfortable for me as it provides the cooling of mid/full towers without all the drive bays and expansion slots I don't need.
 
Steeeeve said:
Interesting responses. This is basically the same response when asked whether mATX can realistically replace ATX. I think we have pretty gotten there (granted they are not the exact same). It took about a decade though. mini ITX is probably in the 2-3 year mark but I have to say things are looking up. a few years ago you couldn't buy mini ITX anywhere and if you found it the price was $250-$350 and was 5 generations behind.

Maybe not the standard now but look for big things within the next 5-8 years.
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Yeah, ITX is still in its infancy so its hard to say where it'll end up. It was only about two years ago that mobo manufacturers started to make mATX mobos that could OC worth a damn but mATX has been around much longer than that. If ITX would support the bigger cards I'd certainly try one. I'd want to be able to slide a 450w-500w psu into the case though just to feel secure about the power needed. :)
 
In my opinion MicroATX has no concessions at all. But miniITX is too embryonic at this stage:

1. Cases are needed that fit 12" video cards. 9" is just not enough for today's offerings. Tin snips and appendages hanging out is not acceptable to me.
2. A good case is needed. Nobody makes one. Silverstone SG05/6 are several steps backwards compared to their MicroATX cases.
3. Firewire is needed on the mobo. That is a requirement for me for the debugger since add in cards are not possible in this form factor.
4. RAM is a bit of an issue at this stage. Having half the number of slots as everyone else marginalizes systems as they will either have half the memory or pay huge for high density to get the same as everyone else.
 
Some people's view on what's really needed to do things seems a bit strange to me. Yeah, so currently ITX cases can't hold a GTX295. Not a big surprise. But what it can hold is a card (and the rest of the system) that runs any game with quite good settings and peformance.

The hardcore people will always want to have over-the-top performance even when it isn't needed. You DON'T need more than 4GB of RAM for any game these days (nor for most uses people have for their computer at home), for example. Nor do you need SLI/CrossFire. Yet many people insist on having those.

Granted, it's an "each to their own" kind of thing. If people want to go over the top, well, that's their prerogative. I'm not inclined to do so, which allows me to go from my previous ATX system to a Sugo SST-SG06-based system that can have nearly equal performance while cutting a whopping 75% off of case volume! A pretty good deal if you ask me. Now, if only I could have a Mini-DTX board, then I could even have my X-Fi instead of the Zotac board's not so stellar audio chip (or just a board with better integrated audio would work too, I guess - but no Mini-ITX that has Dolby Digital Live as far as I know).

So will ITX be the future for the hardcore must-have-top-of-the-line people? Not for the near future in my opinion, for the reasons stated. But what I CAN see happening is Mini-ITX/DTX becoming more and more popular in the mainstream segment, and possibly some more of the hardcore folk going from ATX to Micro-ATX. So the trend is towards smaller things but with current tech, Mini-ITX and top of the line don't mix well enough for some people.

I for one will try to stay in ITX sizes from now on, with a small Micro-ATX solution being the biggest I'm willing to go. For now the SST-SG06B seems a very good fit for my needs, even if there's some slight compromises I have to make. But that is true in any form factor, because bigger size is a big compromise in itself. Given how long Micro-ATX has been around, in my opinion the selection of cases is bad. Either they are basically as big as ATX cases, or too small (ie low profile) to actually put a gaming system there. The closest to what I'd look for in a Micro-ATX case is the Antec NSK1380, but it suffers from ventilation issues from reports I've read. It's SST-06-like but with inferior airflow capabilities from the look of things.
 
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