Item arrived damaged or did it?

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The Gonz

[H]ard|Gawd
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I've sold countless items here and have a lot of positive heat to reflect that.

To keep things simple when I sell something I include the price of shipping in the price so that the price you see is the price you pay. Easy.

I sold an item to a user here and the payment was smooth. The item was like new and boxed up with all accessories in the same manner as the company had it.

User receives the item and sends me a pic of it damaged. He says it was damaged during transit but when I ask him for pictures of the box he sends me a dozen pictures and none of them show damage to the shipping box, packing material, or item box.




I don't know what to make of it so I explain to the user I can offer two possibilities.
(It's a water cooler and the radiator arrived with bent fins)


My first suggesstion to user is to test the system without installing it. If it works without leaking I will send him a $20 refund for the trouble.

My second suggestion is to send it back to me and I will refund his money minus the shipping fee.

Well, he's none too happy with either of these notions. Am I being unreasonable here ?
 
But the bent fins is NOTHING, you are very reasonable!
You can see 2 distinct zone of bent fins, for me, the problem was 2 big fingers in the rad and its common.
 
bigddybn said:
What does the buyer's heat look like?
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8 positive and Zero neutral or negative.

Oh and I forgot, the user is saying if I want the item returned that I should pay for it to be returned. OR that I pay to have the radiator replaced.
 
that probably wouldnt even affect the use. I HIGHLY doubt it would leak.

Use a small flathead screwdriver to unbend the fins. Done. Can I ask how much the item sold for? $20 refund seems very reasonable to me.
 
If this was paid with PayPal then he will win but he'll have to return it. He is due back what he originally paid and not a cent more. A 20 dollar refund for what amounts to a cosmetic issue is more than reasonable though.
 
It's through Google Wallet. And it seems like he is trying to keep the item and the money.
 
That looks to me like a fan was installed on it and then pushed into the radiator while it was running.
 
eze_cba17 said:
I think the same, because the bent fins doesnt represent a problem for the rad :rolleyes:
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His last response was the he wants a full refund and that if I want the item back I need to pay for shipping otherwise I should reimburse him for the cost of a new radiator.

I keep looking at the shipping boxes and just can't find any puncture holes or major dents.
 
I think something is going on here. That dent was caused by something hard if it was able to wear the paint off like that. Nothing that would be in the shipping box.
 
The Gonz said:
His last response was the he wants a full refund and that if I want the item back I need to pay for shipping otherwise I should reimburse him for the cost of a new radiator.

I keep looking at the shipping boxes and just can't find any puncture holes or major dents.
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Dont you have the pictures of the rad before you sent it?
 
eze_cba17 said:
Dont you have the pictures of the rad before you sent it?
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x2


I always make a point of taking detailed pictures (and video in some cases) of any item I sell just before sending/selling it. It's saved me a few times.
 
The box doesn't necessarily have to be distressed to cause damage to fins. This happens with heatsink fins as well on air coolers. It is very difficult to prevent it. Some people are just extremely particular, I received two items in a similar fashion (an aio cpu water cooler, and a cpu air cooler.) and i didn't really care to bother the sellers or take any action against them.

I sold a guy a combo with an air cooler included a while ago. The fins got bent a little and the guy flipped out even though I used a pretty large box and absolutely packed it with bubblewrap, the cooler probably wasn't even worth $25 but thats what I ended up giving him anyway. I'm sure after I gave it to him he just bent them back into place lol... it just is what it is.

He should be happy with a 25% discount for a cosmetic issue.
 
I do.
http://imgur.com/974Mybe

Not the best pic granted. But no pre-exisitng damage.

I always list the exact condition of what I sell to avoid these issues. I recently sold a cooler that only had the AMD brackets and listed it as such with a discount so Intel users wouldn't buy it. I sold it to an AMD user.
 
The Gonz said:
It's through Google Wallet. And it seems like he is trying to keep the item and the money.
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I'm certainly not trying to keep the item and the money.

I want what I paid for, or a refund - plain and simple.

The item was shipped with no protection, the radiator was basically resting on the heatsink with some tiny deflated bubble wrap in between. The rest of the hardware was just chucked in the box. There was no protection between the box and the shipping box, any drop would have caused the radiator to smash down on the heavy pump/waterblock.


The pictures showing how the coolermaster box and packaging were damaged on one end were left out. I'll add them in to the thread later.

Sorry it had to go public.

I've sold thousands of items on ebay.. In the very rare case where something gets damaged, my buyer's don't lose a cent.

Am I the only person who thinks it's unreasonable for me to spend nearly $30 on shipping an item back and forth that someone else failed to package properly and have nothing to show for it in the end?
 
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Also, a PIN HOLE leak could form causing damage to ~1500 in computer parts in who knows how long, then what?

Testing it on a bench doesn't really keep me safe from that. You assured me before I bought it that it was brand new, used for a couple of hours to test. I saw your heatware, and chose to trust you and paid using google wallet. That was my only mistake here.
 
You would only be spending $15 to ship the item back since it cost $15 to ship the item to you. The seller would refund you 100% of what you paid, minus what it costs to ship the item back. That means $15, not $30.

I highly, highly doubt that the radiator will leak. It wouldn't take but a few minutes to figure that out though and confirm it.
 
He said he would refund 85-$15 since that was his original shipping costs.

I can plug the thing and and if it it leaks now, but why does that change anything?
 
falkenbd said:
He said he would refund 85-$15 since that was his original shipping costs.
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I am pretty sure he means he will refund you $85. The shipping fee he is referring to is what it will cost you to ship it back.

At least that's how I comprehended it.
 
This is a quote of his PM:

"
Here are the options available:

1) Send it back to me. Once I get it back I'll refund you the money minus shipping costs.
2) Plug it in and power it up without installing it. If it works and you want to keep it I'll send you a $20 refund for the hassle."
 
Right. Minus the cost for you to ship it back to him.
 
I am not sorry this has gone public.
I am very careful about what i do on this site. I've been here for nearly twelve years.


You ask if it's unreasonable to ship an item back but you have missed a very important point.

**You have not tested the item yet**

I agree with everyone here that the damage looks cosmetic and for that I am truly sorry. Sorry enough to offer a $20 refund, nearly %25 of the item cost.
A $200 cooler yours for $85 and an additional $20 to cover the trouble for the cosmetic damage.

If this isn't good enough than ship it back. I am not a business. I am sorry I can't send you a free return shipping label. But you asked me to refund you in full AND THEN if I want the item back to send you more money to ship it back to me.
 
He said shipping costs, which would be plural?

"Once I get it back I'll refund you the money minus the shipping cost" reads different than "Once I get it back I'll refund you the money minus shipping costs."
 
The Gonz said:
I am not sorry this has gone public.
I am very careful about what i do on this site. I've been here for nearly twelve years.


You ask if it's unreasonable to ship an item back but you have missed a very important point.

**You have not tested the item yet**

I agree with everyone here that the damage looks cosmetic and for that I am truly sorry. Sorry enough to offer a $20 refund, nearly %25 of the item cost.
A $200 cooler yours for $85 and an additional $20 to cover the trouble for the cosmetic damage.

If this isn't good enough than ship it back. I am not a business. I am sorry I can't send you a free return shipping label. But you asked me to refund you in full AND THEN if I want the item back to send you more money to ship it back to me.
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This is why kids you only use paypal. To make sure you get what you pay for. Not what you thought you were getting minus some "cosmetic" differences.
 
The Gonz said:
If this isn't good enough than ship it back. I am not a business. I am sorry I can't send you a free return shipping label. But you asked me to refund you in full AND THEN if I want the item back to send you more money to ship it back to me.
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h0mez said:
He said shipping costs, which would be plural?

"Once I get it back I'll refund you the money minus the shipping cost" reads different than "Once I get it back I'll refund you the money minus shipping costs."
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Like I said before. He isn't going to pay to have the item shipped back to him. Just like he said above.
 
falkenbd said:
I'm certainly not trying to keep the item and the money.
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Sure seems like it.

falkenbd said:
Am I the only person who thinks it's unreasonable for me to spend nearly $30 on shipping an item back and forth that someone else failed to package properly and have nothing to show for it in the end?
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pretty much. He put shipped the original box with bubble pads around it. the original manufacturer's shipping materials are excellent and protects it from damage.

For returns to hardforum sellers, it is always expected that the buyer pays return shipping.
The seller loses the money that it cost to ship it to the buyer originally.

Welcome to my do-not-trade list.
 
have him send it back and be done with it. if he opens a dispute with paypal or whatever then you make that the solution and they have no choice.

If they want to be dicks and send it back worse off or not with all the original items, document everything with photos, call paypal, and fight the dispute as soon as you get the box back. other wise they will just refund the money because tracking said you got it back.
 
J Macker said:
pretty much. He put shipped the original box with bubble pads around it. the original manufacturer's shipping materials are excellent and protects it from damage.

For returns to hardforum sellers, it is always expected that the buyer pays return shipping.
The seller loses the money that it cost to ship it to the buyer originally.

Welcome to my do-not-trade list.
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If seller properly shipped it, it wouldn't have gotten damaged right? Not sure what this has to do with the manufacturer's shipping materials.

I would expect the seller to incur all the costs if they shipped me a damage item, not sure what world you live in where the buyer should accept some financial responsibility for the seller being lazy.
 
The manufacturer just chucks all the hardware and accessories into the box without putting any sort of padding between a thick heavy pump/ copper block and think pliable radiators? Doubt it.

Then those retailers ship it out with bubble only protecting 2 of the 6 sides of a box that doesn't even fit around it?

So I pay 12.50-15 to ship it back, and MAYBE get a $60 refund when I paid $85 - kind of sucks. I never would have shipped it to someone else like that. (that was his solution)

I obviously have no recourse, here since I was dumb enough to pay using google wallet. Then I get called out in a thread "Item arrived damaged or did it?" and he claims "i'm trying to keep the item and the money"

I just didn't want to be on the hook for 2 ways of shipping something that is now damaged due to negligent packaging.

Let me ask, would you run that radiator in the top of a case, right above $1500 in PC components even if it didn't leak right up front?




J Macker said:
Sure seems like it.



pretty much. He put shipped the original box with bubble pads around it. the original manufacturer's shipping materials are excellent and protects it from damage.

For returns to hardforum sellers, it is always expected that the buyer pays return shipping.
The seller loses the money that it cost to ship it to the buyer originally.

Welcome to my do-not-trade list.
Click to expand...
 
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Seller fucked up the packing and the buyer got a damaged item, seller pays for shipping both ways. Plain and simple. This is a cheap lesson learned for the seller.

The only time a buyer pays shipping both ways is if the buyer asks to return the item because they no longer want it.
 
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Seller said he will refund you in full. That's $85. Where are you getting this $60 non-sense from? Two-way shipping? What? You'll be out ~$15 for the whole thing. Seller will be out a non-damaged product.

I would run the radiator on a test bench setup for a day. If it doesn't leak then I would have no problem running that cooler above any hardware.

If I were you I would test the damn thing. If it doesn't leak then take the $20.
 
The Lurker said:
Seller fucked up the packing and the buyer got a damaged item, buyer pays for shipping both ways. Plain and simple. This is a cheap lesson learned for the seller.

The only time a buyer pays shipping both ways is if the buyer asks to return the item because they no longer want it.
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Only the buyer is paying shipping one way. Seller agreed for a full refund, but isn't going to pay to have the item returned.
 
His PM to me, said I would pay to ship it back to him and he would refund my money, less the shipping costs.... To me, implies $85- his $15 original shipping cost.
(why would he say "minus shipping costs" if he just meant he was going to refund me $85)

He can clear that up if he choses.


Skillz said:
Only the buyer is paying shipping one way. Seller agreed for a full refund, but isn't going to pay to have the item returned.
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My PM from seller after I sent him the pictures.
Got the pics. I can't see any damage on the shipping box. Filing a claim will be difficult if I can't show them damage on the shipping box. (I'm not pointing fingers here just stating the facts).

Here are the options available:

1) Send it back to me. Once I get it back I'll refund you the money minus shipping costs.
2) Plug it in and power it up without installing it. If it works and you want to keep it I'll send you a $20 refund for the hassle.

Please let me know what you choose.

Here is my copy of the shipping receipt:
http://imgur.com/3vUMstI
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This was my reply that promted this thread:

I am not really to keen on either of those options I'd rather not risk a pinhole leak ruining expensive equipment.

The problem is, you really didn't ship this properly. There was no protection on 4 sides of the box since it barely fit in the shipping box (the box was coming apart just to fit the cooler). On top of that, the accessories were chucked in the box, and there was nothing between the heavy pump and delicate radiator fins besides a deflated piece of bubble wrap.

So any drop, even minimal would cause the radiator to come in contact with the pump/heatsink.

When the thing arrived from the mailman, I could hear the loose parts rattling around inside, it really was an unacceptable packing job.

Please for a moment, this about this from my position - you are asking me to pay for your mistake.

I'd can either be out ~$30 in shipping it 2 ways, or out $65 and have something that I need to replace parts to before I can use it?

I'd rather get a full refund, and if you want it back, you can pay to have it shipped back... The only other amicable resolution in my mind, is enough money back to replace the radiator
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