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ISO vs. MKV

S

SAgosto

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
491
Special thanks to sabregen for getting me up to speed.

Currently, I used DVDShrink for standard DVD and remove everything but the main title and AnyDVD HD for Blu-Ray to to rip to ISO. I use a combination of Win7 X64 WMC to play standard DVD and integrate the Blu-Ray playback, Daemon Tools to mount the Blu-Ray ISO, TMT3 to playback the mounted Blu-Ray ISO, and MyMovies to organize all the movies. It's a flawless setup that works really well for me and is completely seamless. I just use WMC/MyMovies and pick a movie and either WMC or TMT3 play the movie.

The problem is obviously the space required by Blu-Ray. I currently have nearly 6TB and starting to fill fast. I read around and decided to try the MakeMKV/RipBot route and after talking to sabregen for a bit, I was able to take Terminator 3 from 28GB to 8GB. Unfortunately, TMT3 doesn't seem to support MKV files as I got an "unsupported" message when opening up the file. A rename to MP4 played the file and I could not tell the different between the Blu-Ray ISO vs MKV. It's actually quite amazing.

The problem is that I now lose the full Blu-Ray and all of its features. I supposed it's not a big deal to just have the movie but not being able to skip chapters sucks. But, I save a lot on the space.

My biggest worry is that I now lose the ability to rip that DVD and play it on any standard Blu-Ray player. Also, I worry about MKV. What if it's deprecated in the future or loses support from TMT and other popular players? I now have a lost library of movies.

I am curious if I have any other route I should consider? I'd love to compress the files to make this a viable option instead of just dumping money into more space.
 
Use Haali Media Splitter so Win 7 MCE can recognize them without TMT. That's what I do. I've got over 700 DVDs on my Nasbox that are MKVs and I can just browse click and play.
 
ShepsCrook said:
Use Haali Media Splitter so Win 7 MCE can recognize them without TMT. That's what I do. I've got over 700 DVDs on my Nasbox that are MKVs and I can just browse click and play.
Click to expand...

This thread is a bit more than that but this is helpful. I installed Haali. Is that all that is needed? Configuration?
 
MKV is the container of the future so you are safe. Also, the most popular players/front ends have no trouble with it like MPC-HC and 7MC (once you install Haalis). TMT is not a popular player.
 
criccio said:
MKV is the container of the future so you are safe. Also, the most popular players/front ends have no trouble with it like MPC-HC and 7MC (once you install Haalis). TMT is not a popular player.
Click to expand...

That's encouraging. The only downside is that I can't just burn a Blu-Ray for a friend to play on their PC. I would just leave the DVDShrink conveted files as-is on my PC and burn if necessary so that's not a problem.

But, Blu-Ray is a different story if I want to compress (MKV).

Really? I used TMT because it integrated with MyMovies. I am interested in other options as long as MyMovies can launch that application or if WMC can play it "natively".

MPC-HC seems like a dinosaur to me compared to a more full featured playback application like PowerDVD/TMT?
 
No, MPC-HC is THE player to use if you have been around a bit. (Keep in mind though, there is a difference between HTPC front end's like 7MC and standalone players like MPC-HC) PowerDVD/TMT are only useful if you play things from a disk and that is all. Apart from that they are bloated and useless. MPC-HC has new builds released almost ever day and is packed with features.

Windows 7 Media Center plays great with MKV files, all you need is Haalis installed and you're good to go.

If there is one bloated/useless software package that I despise, it is MyMovies client/server. I feel 7MC + MediaBrowser is a far superior combination that feels much more modern. Personal opinion.
 
criccio said:
No, MPC-HC is THE player to use if you have been around a bit. (Keep in mind though, there is a difference between HTPC front end's like 7MC and standalone players like MPC-HC) PowerDVD/TMT are only useful if you play things from a disk and that is all. Apart from that they are bloated and useless. MPC-HC has new builds released almost ever day and is packed with features.

Windows 7 Media Center plays great with MKV files, all you need is Haalis installed and you're good to go.

If there is one bloated/useless software package that I despise, it is MyMovies client/server. I feel 7MC + MediaBrowser is a far superior combination that feels much more modern. Personal opinion.
Click to expand...

I guess I should put MPC-HC on and use it when needed. I have Haalis installed so I will see how it looks. I guess I assumed purchased software like PowerDVD/TMT would also provide a better render? I guess I am wrong.

I'll look into Media Browser. I just use MyMovies as a nice interface for searching/viewing movies that I want to watch.
 
Here's what I use for sharing my b-ray encodes (h264 in .mkv): I use dvd flick to shrink them into an iso which I then burn with img burn. The quality is actually pretty damned good.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
delvryboy said:
Here's what I use for sharing my b-ray encodes (h264 in .mkv): I use dvd flick to shrink them into an iso which I then burn with img burn. The quality is actually pretty damned good.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
Click to expand...

What are you using for playback? I'd love to be able to go from the MKV to something that any Blu-Ray/DVD player could play.

Isn't the original BDROM structure lost after converted to MKV?
 
SAgosto said:
I guess I should put MPC-HC on and use it when needed. I have Haalis installed so I will see how it looks.
Click to expand...

If you just want a player, you can't get any better then MPC-HC from here. It will even do hardware acceleration out of the box if your GPU supports it.

I guess I assumed purchased software like PowerDVD/TMT would also provide a better render? I guess I am wrong.
Click to expand...

Yep, but i'm sure their marketing department would like you to believe that. :p

I'll look into Media Browser. I just use MyMovies as a nice interface for searching/viewing movies that I want to watch.
Click to expand...

MediaBroswer does this too, just it actually looks nice and is a crap ton more user friendly. Not to mention isn't built around some useless server/client model. Adding metabroswer into the mix as well gives you some nice HD backdrops that integrate nicely into MediaBroswer.
 
SAgosto said:
What are you using for playback? I'd love to be able to go from the MKV to something that any Blu-Ray/DVD player could play.

Isn't the original BDROM structure lost after converted to MKV?
Click to expand...
They play in everything, even 360's now that I switched to Verbatim dvd +r's. This is the movie only. You can create chapters and a menu, but I have run into issues with that.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
And that's only for sharing, fyi. I store the 8-15gb .mkv's for my own personal use. As far as playback on wmc, media browser.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
criccio said:
If you just want a player, you can't get any better then MPC-HC from here. It will even do hardware acceleration out of the box if your GPU supports it.
Click to expand...

English version?

delvryboy said:
They play in everything, even 360's now that I switched to Verbatim dvd +r's. This is the movie only. You can create chapters and a menu, but I have run into issues with that.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
Click to expand...

VERY NICE.

I still am not sure how it can alter the MKV format to a format that is recognizable by all DVD players?!
 
it's honestly a 3 click process. You can also transcode them in to TS structure and use a program like dvdfab to burn them.
 
Many programs can take the chapter markers from the disc and put them into the mkv. Handbrake, automkv..
 
SAgosto said:
English version?
Click to expand...

I knew I should have posted a disclaimer... Only half of that site is in Russian, just look. Its the only place to get current builds of MPC-HC, just look at the release dates.
 
TheResidentEvil said:
Many programs can take the chapter markers from the disc and put them into the mkv. Handbrake, automkv..
Click to expand...

Handbrake/AutoMKV/MakeMKV do the same thing right? I guess I'd just use Handbrake as it adds chapters automatically which is a nice feature. My initial testing with MakeMKV/RipBot is that the end result is 1/3 the size but I can't tell the difference in quality. I guess I should do the same for Handbrake and compare. Maybe one is better than the other?

criccio said:
No, MPC-HC is THE player to use if you have been around a bit. (Keep in mind though, there is a difference between HTPC front end's like 7MC and standalone players like MPC-HC) PowerDVD/TMT are only useful if you play things from a disk and that is all. Apart from that they are bloated and useless. MPC-HC has new builds released almost ever day and is packed with features.

Windows 7 Media Center plays great with MKV files, all you need is Haalis installed and you're good to go.
Click to expand...

Win7 MC played the MKV but it was stuttering all over the place. This sucks because that would have been nice to not have to rely on another 3rd party application. However, MPC-HC played it flawlessly except just 2-channel sound. Win7 MC played the DTS audo just fine. I am not sure what's wrong there. If I can fix that, perhaps I can find a way to integrate Win7 MC w/ MPC-HC to play MKV.

delvryboy said:
Here's what I use for sharing my b-ray encodes (h264 in .mkv): I use dvd flick to shrink them into an iso which I then burn with img burn. The quality is actually pretty damned good.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
Click to expand...

I just did this and it was very easy. The end result was obviously not the same but, like you said, it was pretty damn good. It's definately a nice option to take my blu-ray MKV and put it on a DVD for any standard DVD to use. Thank you!

Also, have you tried other applications? Perhaps there is one that produces better quality on the playback?
 
I haven't, but I plan to. It was originally just so i could watch some of my b-ray rips on my SD TV in the bedroom, then I started loaning them out. I want to work on quality and I'm thinking about using handbrake to shrink them and use a program to transcode to .vob.

I haven't messed with handbrake too much because I had some issues using it, that's why I switched to makeMKV.

One thing is for sure, I don't loan out my actual b-ray's; when media prices come down, this will be a non-issue.
 
Last edited:
SAgosto said:
Win7 MC played the MKV but it was stuttering all over the place. This sucks because that would have been nice to not have to rely on another 3rd party application. However, MPC-HC played it flawlessly except just 2-channel sound. Win7 MC played the DTS audo just fine. I am not sure what's wrong there. If I can fix that, perhaps I can find a way to integrate Win7 MC w/ MPC-HC to play MKV.
Click to expand...

That is because MPC-HC is by default using your GPU to play back the files. 7MC by default will use the built in Windows 7 MediaFoundation filters which will use your CPU. Now, if you want 7MC to play everything flawlessly, install a new ffdshow build from that same russian site and use the 7MC DirectShow changer utility to tell 7MC to use ffdshow for eveything. The new builds of ffdshow have DXVA acceleration.

Every HTPC I have ever built uses 7MC and plays 1080p MKV files beautifully. Its all pretty easy.
 
delvryboy said:
I haven't, but I plan to. It was originally just so i could watch some of my b-ray rips on my SD TV in the bedroom, then I started loaning them out. I want to work on quality and I'm thinking about using handbrake to shrink them and use a program to transcode to .vob.

I haven't messed with handbrake too much because I had some issues using it, that's why I switched to makeMKV.

One thing is for sure, I don't loan out my actual b-ray's; when media prices come down, this will be a non-issue.
Click to expand...

Exactly the issues I am facing. Most people I know are still on standard DVDs so I'd like to have a way to bring my movies (standard DVD OR BDROM) to them. DVDFlick allows me to do that. Sure, the quality could be better but it's definately doable. Please let me know what you find out. Also, isn't DVDFlick transcoding them to .VOB? What exactly is it doing/creating?

Also, for SDTV in my bedroom, I use MyMovies on my laptop in client-mode and connect right to my TV. :)

criccio said:
That is because MPC-HC is by default using your GPU to play back the files. 7MC by default will use the built in Windows 7 MediaFoundation filters which will use your CPU. Now, if you want 7MC to play everything flawlessly, install a new ffdshow build from that same russian site and use the 7MC DirectShow changer utility to tell 7MC to use ffdshow for eveything. The new builds of ffdshow have DXVA acceleration.

Every HTPC I have ever built uses 7MC and plays 1080p MKV files beautifully. Its all pretty easy.
Click to expand...

Wow, so my GIGABYTE Radeon HD4350 512M VC isn't powerful enough to play back the MKV?

I'll install the new FFDShow. Where is the Win7 MC's DirectShow Changer Utility located? I'll try this out.

Man, talk about some major progress this weekend. :) I am psyched. Is it fair to say that FFDShow/Win7 will be more realiable than TMT/PowerDVD. TMT has been solid but has some issue (Recent version prevents MKV but if you rename to MP4 it works fine; It's a bug) but PowerDVD suck. I just assumed they would just render a better picture as I said so I never considered these smaller utilities/apps.

BTW, can you tell if the link to MPC-HC version above is BETA? I can't tell which X64 to download. The same for FFDShow

EDIT: Win 7MC's Direct Show Changer Utility, correct? -> http://www.codecguide.com/windows7_preferred_filter_tweaker.htm
 
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If you use the dvd maker that comes with w7,you can skip dvd flick for the dvds you ripped with dvd shrink. Just point it at the TS folder.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
Glad you've got the ball rolling on your project. Sounds like you're getting it figured out, and yesm the DirectShow render changer sometimes is needed. Low End GPUs sometimes just can't handle the requirements of h264 playback smoothly. I would think a 4350 could do it, though. Double check your rendering device settings.
 
SAgosto said:
Win7 MC played the MKV but it was stuttering all over the place. This sucks because that would have been nice to not have to rely on another 3rd party application. However, MPC-HC played it flawlessly except just 2-channel sound. Win7 MC played the DTS audo just fine. I am not sure what's wrong there. If I can fix that, perhaps I can find a way to integrate Win7 MC w/ MPC-HC to play MKV.
Click to expand...

I really like the Media Browser guides that Damian has been writing lately. Simple, concise and detailed. The latest one seems to be exactly what you are looking for:

http://www.mediasmartserver.net/201...hc-as-your-video-player-in-wmc-media-browser/
 
Running into problems.

I am concerned that my HD3450 can't support BluRay 1080P content without hardware acceleration? I am using ATI's Catalyst's default settings?

Also, I installed ffdshow and the Win 7 DirectShow Changer utility and changed the 64bit programs to use ffdshow instead of "Microsoft". It seems to work fine however just 2 channel sound. I set the audio section to pass through DTS (Not sure what else to select) but now Win 7 MC doesn't play anything. It just crashes. WMP-HD works fine as it did before, just no DTS or anything but 2 channel sound.
 
First of all, MKV is not a media type, it is only a container that holds audio and video. That video can be any number of things. For the most part when dealing with HD media that is an H264 video stream and either a DD or DTS audio stream.

Now, your 4350 is more then capable of decoding H264 video but the 7MC default filters don't take advantage of the GPU, only the CPU. In MPC-HC, its default filters will use your GPU.

As for what version of MPC-HC and ffdshow to use, just pick the latest build. I have been using whatever the latest build is and have NEVER had a problem.
 
I really don't know what to tell you at this point, you seem to be making it more complicated then it needs to be.

To make a fully working and full featured HTPC with the parts you have, I would do this:

-Install Windows 7
-Install Haalis Media Splitter
-Install ffdshow-tryouts
-Install the newest build of the 7MC DirectShow changer from Doom9
-Use the changer to select the correct filters for 7MC to use.
Install MediaBrowser and metabrowser and let them scan and populate your media library with awesome metadata and HD images.
-Profit!

I'm not sure what you mean by your not sure your HD4350 can support 1080p without hardware acceleration? If you GPU is doing anything at all then your using hardware acceleration. Keep in mind, you could have a $600 GPU and if you aren't using a codec/filter that will take advantage of it, all the decoding will fall on the CPU.
 
criccio said:
First of all, MKV is not a media type, it is only a container that holds audio and video. That video can be any number of things. For the most part when dealing with HD media that is an H264 video stream and either a DD or DTS audio stream.
Click to expand...

Understood.

criccio said:
Now, your 4350 is more then capable of decoding H264 video but the 7MC default filters don't take advantage of the GPU, only the CPU. In MPC-HC, its default filters will use your GPU.
Click to expand...

I fixed the audio problem in MPC-HD by clicking Play at the top, then Filters, and then DTS Decoder and then changing the DTS Decoder to SPDIF. My receiver light up and it sounds much better. I have no idea waht I did or if I have to do this for AC3? Or any other configuration? I basically just installed FFDSHOW and changed the H264 to use FFDSHOW instead of Microsoft. I was careful. :)

Unfortunately, Win 7 MC still plays it in two channel. I am not sure why? That's like my only problem! I checked out other standard DVD and the ISO that are launched via MyMovies and played in TMT3 and everything works good. Just the audio for the MKV. So close.


criccio said:
As for what version of MPC-HC and ffdshow to use, just pick the latest build. I have been using whatever the latest build is and have NEVER had a problem.
Click to expand...


MPC-HC x64 -> 1.3.1249.0
ffdshow x64 -> 3222 revision
 
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As far as MediaBrowser, I need to look into it. I got MyMovies installed and working good. One thing at a time. But, man, this is good!
 
Great Success!

I am now able to hear DTS while playing MKV 1080P/DTS within Win 7!

ffdshow audio decoder configuration, Output (on left), Click "AC3 (S/PDIF encode mode)"

I was clicking DTS and other ones within the "Pass-through (S/PDIF, HDMI) at the top but it would not play the video and would crash 7MC.

Looks like I am back in business!
 
Yes, you need to have it passthrough the signal to your receiver instead of decoding it. I didn't know you had a receiver.
 
criccio said:
Yes, you need to have it passthrough the signal to your receiver instead of decoding it. I didn't know you had a receiver.
Click to expand...

Ton of variables to anyone's setup that it's nearly impossible for you to be exact. You gave great advice man. Thank you.

Out of curiosity, what's the DTS settings in the top of that menu screen that I mentioned above? It crashed my 7MC everytime I played the MKV.
 
I am starting to convert all ISOs to MKV. Things are still looking good.

Thanks everyone.
 
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