Is Windows RT a failure?

[bigdogchris]

The Motley Fool seems to think so.

We can't blame Microsoft for trying to get into the mobile market. Many casual users are moving away from desktops and laptops and moving to phones and tablets for Facebook, email, etc. In that market, PC sales are shrinking and mobile sales are growing.

Not to get into the whole Windows 8 argument (that's for another thread), I do think that Microsoft should of designed Windows RT to be it's own OS, like what Apple and Google have done for their products. The Start Screen and live tiles do look nice on tablet devices. If you strip out the desktop stuff and ship just a touch UI and market it as such, I think that Windows RT would of sold better and performed better on the hardware.

I suppose my thinking behind Windows RT selling better if it was it's own product is that the device could of been marketed as it's own device rather than being in the mix with the desktop version. Microsoft spread it's base too thin, creating a lot of information and product for too many devices. It's hard to define your customers like this, a one size fits all product makes it more difficult to find a core audience for your products.

Microsoft has tried in the past to get on tablets with it's Windows XP tablets, and again with Vista and 7 touch packs. Even now with RT they cannot get a hold of the market. But one thing has remained consistent with their approach in the tablet market, they refuse to let go of the desktop.

 

[pxc]

Yeah, Windows RT is a spectacular failure. That's indisputable.

Time will tell how much the stink from Windows RT rubs off on low cost Windows 8.1 tablets. The versioning is another potential problem. Android and iOS run on ~1 year cycles for significant upgrades, and MS is just now trying to get into that cadence. If MS pulls it off, the platform should benefit tremendously from it. The down side is that it won't make the software situation much better in the short term. The Windows Store selection of applications sucks, and an improved platform and larger suitable device installation base is the only thing that will attract a healthy developer ecosystem for Metro apps.

 

[Adidas4275]

i think the RT failure is only that they overestimated production.

if they would have sold it like the zune and not make 100 million of them or whatever they ended up making I dont think we would see it as the same failure.

RT and W8 "metro" are the same and that is a huge deal, if/when the app store gets more mature and the office products are available in the W8 interface then RT will be much more useful.

The ability to do real multitasking with having multiple windows open even on a ARM tablet is big for differentiation from the other tablet OSes.

Microsoft needs to do better with ecosystem integration, the xbox glass app is a good start but they still need to have better ability to share things between RT, WP8, W8, and Xbox. SkyDrive is fine, but the hooks into the various OSes need to be strong and more constant in all the OSes.

DNLA with "Play To" just is not as seemless as AirPlay
The Xbox media stores are not a good as the itunes selection (itunes as a windows app is terrible)


I love the idea that I can put media files on a SD card or USB drive and easily access them on an iPad like device, and that is a big deal.... syncing media files, especially large video files, is a PITA in iOS and relatively easy with W8 and RT

anyways, i think their real failure is overestimating market demand and production, not the OS

 

[jimh425]

I'd say failure because the hardware is pretty bad compared to the alternatives. If they would have come out with a cleaner OS, it might have been better. However, with such an app shortage, it isn't ready comparable to other similarly priced hardware like the Nexus 10, for example. msft, could have put a bigger percentage of the 90000 employees on creating apps, but then it would have been clear that Windows 8 was short on what customers wanted.

 

[XenIneX]

There's "overestimating market demand", and then there's not having any market demand in the first place. Per estimates, Microsoft is sitting on 6 million Surface RTs. That's one month's quantity of iPads, which they couldn't clear out in the better part of a year.

The real question is why there's no market demand. I'll take a wild stab in the dark with poor product differentiation, poor implementation, and poor marketing.

 

[Andyk5]

It is the way it was brought up.
iOS was first brought up in the iphone. The app store was crappy, you could not do much with it, but it was so revolutionary, people ended up buying it. Then iOS matured in the Iphone, app store got better and as it got better people started to realized that they can do more with their iOS. It looked like Ios was moving forward and people were appreciating it. When the first text editors started to pop up and you could open a .doc file on your iphone you were ecstatic, people were like "omg, this phone op system is almost like a full op system" etc.
Ipad built on that, it was a bigger, faster iphone, that did all the cool stuff that iphone did, did nothing that a phone should do. So they took the "reason" why people were buying an iphone, put it in a larger screen and made it the ipad.

RT was completely backwards. People were using Windows for everything that they could not do on their iphones, ipads or even macs(games, certain productivity software) etc... When RT came out, it was a step down from a windows operating system. The app store is crappy and people cared, well unlike when iphone was released currently there is a competitior in the market that has a great app store. On top of that all the RT like features like not being able to run x86 programs or quirky office applications worked against RT, constantly reminded people that there is absolutely no reason to own a Windows RT device. If they would have bround the operating system from the phones and grew it in to tablets, and have built a large app store in the process, it could have worked. Instead Microsoft tried to do everything at the same time. Windows 8, force Metro down people's throat, see if you can goad them in to buying apps from the app store, increase profitability, come up with a shittier version of Windows 8, still put metro on it, still force the empty app store and then call it windows, price your equipment around the same price as he ipads.... yeah sorry microsoft, it is not gonna happen brah. Enjoy the millions of unsold products. I hope they get the guy who came up with the app store and metro ideas and put him as a sales person at a microsoft store, see what he can do.

 

[Terpfen]

The real question is why there's no market demand. I'll take a wild stab in the dark with poor product differentiation, poor implementation, and poor marketing.

Comparing the non-iPad tablet market to the iPad market reveals the answer; people don't want tablets, they want iPads.

Microsoft created something people don't want.

 

[Adidas4275]

i dont agree, there are plenty of people who dont want to be locked in to Apple ecosystems, or want to be able to take some photos with their DSLR and edit them on a tablet.....

the iPad camera connect kit is lack luster..

there are many people who want a tablet with USB host support (they dont know what it is called, but they want it) and with a SD card slot built in.

If Apple ever decides to add those features and better multitasking then the demand for alternatives will all but be gone.

anyways, i think W8 with x86/x64 architecture is still the clear winner, MS just wanted to try an ARM based OS so they were not left out.

low power intel or AMD CPUs running W8 on a tablet with 8+ hrs of battery life and the flexibility to using "metro" or desktop is killer, currently Atom and APUs are just too weak or use to much battery to accomplish what is needed.

The Thinkpad Tablet 2 with a little beefier CPU would really be a killer product.


I have been in the hospital for the last 3 days with my wife having our first child and other than people's cell phones ever other device I have seen is a windows based computer.... in the rooms, nurses stations, nutrition people using older W7 or XP based tablet computers.

Not one Doctors, nurse or hospital staff with an iOS or Android based device in sight.

 

[RandemTox]

i dont agree, there are plenty of people who dont want to be locked in to Apple ecosystems, or want to be able to take some photos with their DSLR and edit them on a tablet.....

the iPad camera connect kit is lack luster..

there are many people who want a tablet with USB host support (they dont know what it is called, but they want it) and with a SD card slot built in..

But ... apparently almost none of these people want these things if they come with a half-assed version of Windows and/or at 2-3x the price of the non-Windows options.

And how is the iPad Camera Connection kit lack-luster? It'll happily pull files off my pro-level Canon DSLRS or my APS-C gear, my Leica, my Fuji X series, all my MFT gear, and all of my compact cameras. Dropping two little adapters in even my smallest camera bag is a non-issue.

And once the files are on the iPad the options available for viewing and manipulating them are myriad and interesting - compared to the absolutely piss-poor selection available for Windows RT. Not that any serious photographer does this anyway for anything more than experimentation, on-site quick-proofing or to send the files elsewhere.

 

[Snowdog]

i think the RT failure is only that they overestimated production.

Actually they were saying Windows RT was a failure, not just Surface RT (production just makes that more obvious).

Both were abject failures. The real problem isn't that they built too many, it is that no one was buying. Every estimate of Surface RT machines sold was well under 1 million. It's like RIM Playbook numbers.

The bigger problem is that Window RT failed for everyone, not just Microsoft with the Surface. Many (smart) partners didn't even bring a Windows RT to market. Every partner that did, got burned. They are all selling off at liquidation pricing, or discontinued. Once burned, twice shy. I expect there will be even less Windows RT machines for Microsofts fall relaunch.

The smart players like Samsung didn't even sell Windows RT machines, but they are now demoing a machine that runs full Windows 8, and Android for more touch apps. That has really got to sting.

Less RT partner machines in the fall, and the stink of public failure on it, is going to make it even harder to sell generation 2 RT machines going forward.

Only Kin failed harder and faster.

 

[Terpfen]

i dont agree, there are plenty of people who dont want to be locked in to Apple ecosystems, or want to be able to take some photos with their DSLR and edit them on a tablet.....

I'm sure there are. However, there are apparently not enough of these people to support a market for a tablet that is not an iPad.

I have been in the hospital for the last 3 days with my wife having our first child and other than people's cell phones ever other device I have seen is a windows based computer.... in the rooms, nurses stations, nutrition people using older W7 or XP based tablet computers.

Not one Doctors, nurse or hospital staff with an iOS or Android based device in sight.

Whatever hospital you went to is the exception, not the rule. I work in healthcare IT; administration, doctors, and staff almost entirely use iOS devices. The one exception is a manager in the ER who bought an Android phone because it was free with a contract, and she hates it.

The hospital you went to most likely purchased those tablets some time ago and instituted a policy that banned the use of anything but those, in order to justify the cost.

 

[Megalith]

I just want to know how this affects Surface Pro.

Does this simply mean that future tablets will all run the full version of Windows 8?

 

[seanclayton]

We all agree it is. Only way for Microsoft to stay relevant is by reducing cost of Windows 8 so it won't impact the overall price of devices. Hell, even Intel is trying to push for $150 tablets. If I were Microsoft, I would fight to be the standard OS on that movement.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Windows RT should have been WP 8 minus the dialer....

 

[BladeVenom]

Of course it's a failure. It's such an epic failure that some journalists are calling it the beginning of the end for Windows. Did we all just witness Windows start to die?

They even spent $400 million advertising Surface. So that money was wasted, and just adds to the loss.

 

[pxc]

Windows RT should have been WP 8 minus the dialer....

Yeah, Windows RT should have been based on WP and not the bloated desktop code base. It was the perfect opportunity to clean slate a platform for Metro, and MS blew it big time.

 

[harmattan]

As a Windows RT user (Asus Vivo Tab), I would catagorically say it's a failure, not only from a commercial standpoint, but also in usability. Like Windows Phone but much more acute, the lack of app support is crushing (no HBOgo app???!). Like Windows 8 but exasterbated by the touchscreen interface: the account control and settings are clumsy. I will say it that it does do "core" tablet stuff fluidly e.g., browsing, Netflix, mail. I yearn for the days of my tf101...

 

[wonderfield]

msft, could have put a bigger percentage of the 90000 employees on creating apps, but then it would have been clear that Windows 8 was short on what customers wanted.

In a sense, Microsoft did employ people to build Metro apps. For a time, they paid up to $100 per approved app; up to 20 apps per developer (between both the Windows Store and the Windows Phone Marketplace).

It didn't work. The Windows Store has more apps, but quality apps are few and far between.

I just want to know how this affects Surface Pro. Does this simply mean that future tablets will all run the full version of Windows 8?

They should have all along. For what it's worth, Microsoft says they're committed to the Surfaces, so you can certainly expect Surface Pro updates.

Yeah, Windows RT should have been based on WP and not the bloated desktop code base.

Yet it would not have helped. People seem to only like Windows proper — neither Windows RT nor Windows Phone have been successful forays for Microsoft.

 

[Andyk5]

I just want to know how this affects Surface Pro.

Does this simply mean that future tablets will all run the full version of Windows 8?

Haswell Surface Pro is going to be a killer and probably my next tablet. Either that or Lenovo Helix.
Yes more expensive, but a better product to suit my needs than Ipad.
This niche market where people want a tablet that has tablet battery life and size, but also runs full x86 apps like a boss ( unlike my thinkpad tablet 2 and the atom processor) and has a pen and full connectivity options is the only market where microsoft can ahead of Apple. NOt a big market but Surface pro with Haswel i5, 8 gig ram, 10hour battery life, digitizer, high resolution screen and good heat management will rule it, if they come out with it. The majority of the market will continue using facebook, youtube, google and email, taking pictures and playing stupid mindless games with no purpose. When it comes to that, there is no way you are going to beat an ipad.

Now I am thinking, Steve Jobs, that bastard contributed to the stupidity, time wasting and low productivity of millions of people by giving them a toy that looks like it will increase productivity, but for some reason almost purposely stripped all of its productive abilities.

The computers that ran the software for most of the Apollo missions were much less powerful than a single Ipad, computing devices that worked older version of mathematical software, or even Office applications, things that had serial, Ethernet, ps2, usb interfaces were much older and lower technology than the ipad. People invented and engineered the new modern world on these devices, but for some reason iPad's are not supposed to do any of these. Even displaying a 100kb word document in its proper format, let alone working on it is a big accomplishment for these ios tablets. But when it comes to 3D farmville, yeah it can play that, it can show rapid fluctuation of shiny objects and colors on the screen to steal your childs attention so you can have your wine in peace but at what cost? Will that child ever want to read? Can he ever concentrate more than 15 minutes on a subject before craving more crap media like bran numbingly useless games that require no strategy or creativity, or just a dump of social media....

It's all your fault Steve Jobs, yes you did change the world but not in a good way.
I hope you are nice and toasty in hell.

 

[jimh425]

Paying a bounty, and creating teams to build apps is drastically different. I was suggesting taking 200-300 people to create apps full time. In other words, a multimillion dollar investment for apps.

Building on top of wp wouldn't help. Its very basic. BTW, I'm a wp user.

 

[Snowdog]

Paying a bounty, and creating teams to build apps is drastically different. I was suggesting taking 200-300 people to create apps full time. In other words, a multimillion dollar investment for apps.

Building on top of wp wouldn't help. Its very basic. BTW, I'm a wp user.

Creating a bunch of first party shovelware won't solve the problem either. You can't buy an ecosystem. You have to grow it naturally.

Real ecosystem deficiencies are clear with every service advertising companion apps, only for iOS/Android on TV. When you buy something, like the WD TV I picked up that only has iOS/Android remote control apps.

This is why you generally only see one or at most two ecosystems thriving in each segment. Once you get to third place it just isn't worth developing for the smaller numbers.

 

[jimh425]

Building apps is not to buy an ecosystem. Its to make the system usable, so there are enough customers for developers to bother.

 

[wonderfield]

Its to make the system usable, so there are enough customers for developers to bother.

Microsoft claims that there are over 100 million customers who have access to Metro apps.

 

[dr.stevil]

Honestly, I feel that RT should never of existed (or not as a separate entity as it exists now). W8/RT tablets should be running the exact same OS as their phones, just like every other manufacturer is doing. The way that iOS and Android works, if you buy an app on your phone, you can use it on your tablet (and vice versa). Based on that alone, I would never consider either an RT Tablet nor a Windows Phone. MS could of ran with it and made your phone and tablet apps work on your desktop as well (and seamlessly sync between them)... essentially one-upping both Apple and Google.

They really should of offered a 'pro' version of 'RT' that only runs on x86 and also allows desktop apps to run (aka Windows 8 as it is now) and kept "Windows 8" more like traditional Windows 7, with enhancements to co-exist alongside their phone/tablet division.

 

[pxc]

Yet it would not have helped.

I don't disagree about the outcome, because MS blew it in the one place it has historically excelled: attracting developers. Out of the gigantic base of Windows developers available, it's absolutely amazing how few have any interest at all in developing Metro applications.

Speaking for myself (as a Windows developer), I simply refuse to support Metro because of what MS is trying to do with traditional desktops, where forcing a tablet interface onto inappropriate systems is just about THE STUPIDEST THING EVER. If my sentiment is unique, I'll be shocked, shocked! And if this nonsense persists through "Windows 9" (or whatever the next major, non-SP update is called), I'll probably bail on Windows as a development platform.

 

[Snowdog]

Microsoft claims that there are over 100 million customers who have access to Metro apps.

Some others have claimed that actual number of copies of real running copies of Windows 8 are much lower, like 60 million.

Then of course there is the fact that most of those that are running Windows 8 are doing so on standard destkop/laptops without touch and thus no real interest in running Metro touch apps.

So what is the real number of people running Windows 8 on touch machines than might really be interested in running Metro Touch apps? 5 Million?

Microsofts Windows 8 strategy seemed to have been based on the premise that developers are stupid. So they could be fooled into thinking that the Metro App market size equals total Windows 8 licenses shipped, when in reality the actual market is MUCH smaller.

It turns out developers weren't so stupid, and that strategy only served to alienate a great many tradition laptop/desktop customers.