is torrent software safe?

C

carnag3

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
405
hey, so occasionally i use torrents, (NOT FOR ILLIGAL STUFF) everyone who is about to winge :p, but i want to know if by having it installed and running i am redusing the security of my system, furthermore i use utorrent, which apparently the owner is in bed with the mpaa, i know a lot of that is fud, and i dont really know the truth, but if anyone does? I am not scared of gettign caught, rather will not support a program that aligns with those people, just as i didnt buy bioshock with the draconious drm. So do i set up another box purely for downing? but if thats on m home network isnt it jsut the same anyways? ah confusion... anyone?
 
I wouldn't be worried about the client itself, especially one as popular and highly regarded as Utorrent. Also, there is no fear of getting caught downloading legal stuff, (because its legal) so I doubt you are. That being said, it wouldn't matter if it is on another computer, your network IP is still in the swarm, therefore you can be seen. Many people that download illegal stuff use private trackers (use google) which is a relatively smaller community which is theoretically safer because your peers are less likely to be wigs in offices. Many people who worry about privacy/safety (NOT NECESSARILY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY) use PeerGuardian (use google) which will prevent the transferring of data to "bad" IP addresses. Keep in mind if you are behind a firewall, they may be able to see your IP, however whoever they are will not be able to transfer data to or from you, therefore no crime/ or otherwise is being created. This posting is highly hypothetical in all aspects.
 
Aside from the torrent software itself, content (the stuff you're downloading) can be "poisoned".

P2P content is one of the fastest growing means of spreading worms 'n bots. That song or movie you downloaded..go to play it...and unknown to you, your system just got quietly infected. ;)
 
I think you are reading into the FUD to much honestly. You're fine, just download away.

If you are even half awake when you choose to download something, stuff like YeOld mentioned should never happen. It just comes down to being smart about it.
 
Yes, also if you start file sharing, check your hash against the reputable source and download the free spybot Search and Destroy which monitors your file system in real time to protect against unwanted "addons" :D
 
The issue with the client software isn't that it's "safe" or even legal, the issue is that the word "torrent" has now been tightly attached to "illegal." Therefore, with the sheer levels of ignorance that continue to increase daily, the assumption is that if you're running a BitTorrent client and you admit to downloading content - regardless of whether it's legit content like Linux distros, game demos, etc, it really doesn't matter - you will be perceived as doing something illegal, period.

The comment above about "no fear of getting caught downloading legal stuff" is ludicrous: I know tons of people that have lost their ISP accounts because of using a BitTorrent client to download just that very thing, Linux distros. I even know two people that downloaded Windows XP Service Pack 3 last year using a torrent - and I don't mean the actual full version of Windows XP Home or Pro SP3, I mean just the Service Pack itself, the 318MB installer file - and then spent months fighting the ISP in court to prove they did nothing wrong and get their accounts back.

They did, but it didn't do anything to cover the loss of their Internet access, their email accounts and all the emails which were then dumped into null because of the dead accounts, and a whole slew of other related issues because the ISP was paranoid and started tossing anyone using BitTorrent on the known ports - and they even admitted in court they were "sniffing" the content and particulary targeted users that would download content with "microsoft" or "windows" in the torrent filename.

So, just because you're not doing anything illegal doesn't mean some ignorant fool won't make a decision based on that ignorance and wreak havoc with your little corner of the world when you least expect it.

There's no such thing as "safe" when it comes to dealing with the Internet. It's quite possibly the second largest myth related to the Internet. What's the first? That everything on it is free... ;)

It's a crap shoot, to be honest. You throw the dice (download a file using a BitTorrent client, regardless of content), and you take your chances (potential legal action even if it's unfounded, loss of Internet access even when it's unfounded, ignorant fools turning your life upside down for no good reason at all, etc).

Simple.
 
Joe Average said:
: I know tons of people that have lost their ISP accounts because of using a BitTorrent client to download just that very thing, Linux distros. I even know two people that downloaded Windows XP Service Pack 3 last year using a torrent - and I don't mean the actual full version of Windows XP Home or Pro SP3, I mean just the Service Pack itself, the 318MB installer file - and then spent months fighting the ISP in court to prove they did nothing wrong and get their accounts back..
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What cracks me up is good ol' http download right from the *nix distros site is pretty much just as fast..always is for me.

Getting a Windows service pack from other than a solid trusted source like Microsofts wicked fast download servers...//shrug...

And those that think they can easily spot a poisoned download being just 1/2 awake or being able to stare at a hash (that's quite easily gotten around)...it's just a matter of time til you're bit and have to format/reinstall, not if, but when.
 
I not going to come to any conclusions, but at least 10TB has come down my pipe via uTorrent in the last couple months without problem. Nightly scans with NOD32 and malwarebytes and all. Been that way for 2 years now since I discovered bittorrent. Not about to stop.

Highly regulated private trackers ftw.
 
Usually legit software comes with a MD5 hash. After you download the file, use a MD5 hash generator on the download and compare them. If they are identical then you know you got the original file and nothing was changed.
 
I've been running torrents close to 24/7 for the last 7 years or so.

No problems so far..
..as far as I know :D
 
Same here, no problems running bittorrent 24/7 and I use it download tv shows from torrlog and other sites. Besides my crap upload speeds I have no problems. I run it on WHS and I have anitvirus running but none have had a virus so far.
 
no one's ever been dumped from their ISP for torrenting a linux distro, that's completely ludicrous. :D

The ISP doesn't want to lose your business. They're not going to dump you for legal activity. :rolleyes:

I've been torrenting for years, and usually have at least 1 or 2 distros uploading. Once a few years ago I downloaded a Sopranos episode through a torrent. Time Warner wrote me a polite email saying "you or someone using your account" had d/loaded copyrighted material, and that it was illegal and not to do it. That was it.

I would never torrent on windowz, though. good way to lose your data through virus or worm attack.

Maybe your computer would even actually blow up. :eek:

See how easy it is to spread FUD? ;)
 
I would write Time Warner a nice FUCK YOU email back...

What is Time Warner Cable's policy?
To enhance the security of the Road Runner network, it is our policy to disable this feature for all residential customers. This is completed at two locations: the customer's computer and the Road Runner network. The Road Runner installation software systematically disables the feature on your computer as part of the installation process. Because of the associated risks, Time Warner Cable recommends that customers do not re-enable the Print and File sharing feature. We do not allow P2P Print and File sharing under any circumstances for our residential customers. For more information, please refer to the Time Warner cable Operator Acceptable Use Policy.
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Whats with you guys thinking the hash somehow completely protects you? Many times torrents are created with the poisoned files in them, in that case the hash checks out perfectly.

That is why it is important to download the torrent file itself from a trusted source (like a distros website) and not just random large trackers out there that do host legal files as well.

In any event if you are smart and your ISP is not a PITA torrenting should be fine. It is just another way to download stuff. What you download is sometimes questionable, but there are plenty of legal uses for it.
 
And they don't have the right to spy on your activity....


or at least I don't think they SHOULD....
 
Did you read what you quoted?

"We do not allow P2P Print and File sharing under any circumstances for our residential customers."

It is fairly easy to tell when a connection is torrenting, even without doing any major spying.
 
Well for one, a TV episode is relatively small in today's media world. Number two, even if they detected the protocol, how would they know the content was copyrighted? It could be a linux distro...
 
Honey pot. The file may have been monitored. There is no need to monitor traffic, just watch for IPs connected to the tracker.
 
Unless you are using an encrypted link from your specific PC to the source, any ISP has the right to sniff the packets flowing over its own network. If the packets flowing over that network are encrypted, it would be a Federal offense for the ISP to do anything to try to discover the contents of the encrypted packets.

So if you're just using plain old unencrypted torrent software, the filename alone is a sign more often than not as to the content of the file(s) being transferred. If not, an ISP can simply decide to copy the stream and then inspect the packets whenever they wish, and the information they get becomes actionable material in a legal sense.

But they're not "above the law" with respect to encryption: they can't crack it anymore than anyone else can without breaking the law in the process.
 
Grentz said:
Whats with you guys thinking the hash somehow completely protects you? Many times torrents are created with the poisoned files in them, in that case the hash checks out perfectly.
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the assumption is that you know the checksum from some other trusted source.

I've been torrenting for years, and usually have at least 1 or 2 distros uploading. Once a few years ago I downloaded a Sopranos episode through a torrent. Time Warner wrote me a polite email saying "you or someone using your account" had d/loaded copyrighted material, and that it was illegal and not to do it. That was it.
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let me get this straight. You've been torrenting for years, and the single time you downloaded a copyright product they sent you an email? for that single time? man, you must be the most unlucky man on earth.
 
He didn't say the single time, he said one time when he happened to download a Sopranos episode he got popped for it, as is the case with a lot of people. It's not that you or him or someone else happens to download a lot, it's that you get caught just once and it's over more often than not. The percentage of legit torrents to "questionable content" is probably 1000:1 or something close to it... :)

It's like running red lights... you can get away with it just by sheer dumb luck and happenstance because cops can't be at every red light you happen to be running at any given random time. It's the one time when you do it when there IS a cop that you get caught and all sorts of shit happens because of it.

His case was probably a purposely seeded file to attract - and catch - people going for it, aka a honeypot. Guess he got stung that time... :)
 
I find that they are overwhelmingly safe. Nod32 does perk up every now and then, though, and will happily delete/quarantine whatever it is that's causing trouble.

Of course, I use mostly private trackers.
 
serpretetsky said:
the assumption is that you know the checksum from some other trusted source.


let me get this straight. You've been torrenting for years, and the single time you downloaded a copyright product they sent you an email? for that single time? man, you must be the most unlucky man on earth.
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Yep, that was the only time. But again, I think it was because it was THEIR content, so they were scanning for it, or like Joe said it was a honeypot. ;)
 
Joe I'm assuming you have just never had any first hand experience with this yourself? Not your friend you mentioned, you yourself.

If your "red light" analogy is to be used, I must have run near 100TB of red lights in my time and I don't plan to stop. Some people are just blowing things out of proportion.

Unless you personally have had something bad happen to your computer, I don't think you should be preaching about how "bad" it is. Because for a great many of us who know what we are doing we have NEVER had an issue, ever. And we have been doing this for a very long time.
 
criccio said:
Joe I'm assuming you have just never had any first hand experience with this yourself? Not your friend you mentioned, you yourself.

If your "red light" analogy is to be used, I must have run near 100TB of red lights in my time and I don't plan to stop. Some people are just blowing things out of proportion.

Unless you personally have had something bad happen to your computer, I don't think you should be preaching about how "bad" it is. Because for a great many of us who know what we are doing we have NEVER had an issue, ever. And we have been doing this for a very long time.
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Keep saying that, until that one day, then :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
 
If that happens (thats a big IF), I reformat and continue where I left off. When you have been doing this for this long without even the tiniest hiccup, nothing is going to make me just stop.

I will of course be marked "ignorant" and considering how long I have been doing this I don't agree but that's fine..

I suggest following some simple (common sense?) guidelines:

1.) If at all possible, become a member of a respected private tracker and always search there first.

2.) Always find the torrent with the highest amount of seeders.

3.) READ THE COMMENTS, ALL OF THEM.

If you can't do that then you deserve to be infected...

To answer the OP's question, yes, the software itself is safe. But that's not what really matters.


Joe, I highly respect you're opinions on everything else, but you have made it clear you're stance on P2P many times, therefore I don't see how you could have much personal experience with it. Just saying...
 
ROFL

I've been doing the torrent thing for years,never had a problem. Gotta love the "bad" preacher here :rolleyes:
 
Torrent clients have nothing to do with the content that you are downloading.
 
Well the OP was basically worried that utorrent was in bed with the MPAA or something crazy like that...
 
lol, no you all kind of misunderstood me, i was asking if whist downloading torrents, your computer is at higher risk at getting hacked or data leackage etc, nothing to do with what was downloaded.

lively discussion but
 
criccio said:
If that happens (thats a big IF), I reformat and continue where I left off. When you have been doing this for this long without even the tiniest hiccup, nothing is going to make me just stop.

.
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By formatting during a seize and search might already of lost in court for tampering with evidence.

carnag3 said:
lol, no you all kind of misunderstood me, i was asking if whist downloading torrents, your computer is at higher risk at getting hacked or data leackage etc, nothing to do with what was downloaded.

lively discussion but
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Most likely not unless they know your exact socket and know how to get past a NAT (if running a router that supports NAT) and hardware/software firewall.
 
carnag3 said:
lol, no you all kind of misunderstood me, i was asking if whist downloading torrents, your computer is at higher risk at getting hacked or data leackage etc, nothing to do with what was downloaded.

lively discussion but
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Happened with some P2P clients but I haven't heard of anything like that with BT. The client is usually not the problem in any case -- some P2P clients have been attacked with viruses written specifically to attack its users. Shouldn't be a problem with proper virus protection in place.
 
Sorry, since when have I "made my stance on P2P clear" at any point in time, eh? Don't go making assumptions, and don't go thinking you "know me" either, you'll be wrong on both counts, I assure you.

I have an email here from my ISP (Cox) telling me that "If you do not cease and desist with <insert the action here I won't go into but let's just say it was related to some guys that are currently on trial in Sweden> we will be forced to remove your account."

So, yes, I have direct firsthand knowledge and experience with torrents of all sorts. :)

I never said the software wasn't "safe," I said the activity and the mention of "I got <insert whatever here> off a torrent" automagically implies illegal activity nowadays. Perfect example: O.J. Simpson and the whole double-murder thing.

It doesn't matter if he did or did not do it, the public perception now is that he did and he got away with it (personally, based on the evidence and variables that I noted in the trial, I think he did it, just for the record - but my opinion doesn't matter).

If you run a red light and you get caught, that's just the start of the problems. There's the cop that pops you and pulls you over, then the ticket itself and heaven forbid you don't have other issues with the law or you'll find out about it when you're asked to step outta the vehicle. If you're drinking that's another can of worms. Then the issues with insurance, then the court date unless you can pay-out for it ahead of time, then the points off your license, etc etc.

It's the Snowball Effect, and everything just builds on itself.

Same principle, at least in my experience. It's not that you've been "getting away with it" forever, it's you can and statistics would say you probably will get popped sooner or later so, it's the crap shoot I mentioned. You roll and take your chances...

Oh, and by the way, that cease and desist I got? I mis-clicked and downloaded the wrong .torrent file which was for something I didn't want and had no intentions of downloading. But, when the download started and I realized what happened, I stopped it - I had downloaded 476KB (not even a half megabyte) of data of a file (2.7GB in size) that was, how shall we say, copyrighted by a certain world famous company in Redmond, Washington.

I got the email less than 16 hours later.

While I don't think it was actionable considering I didn't acquire the full content of the file nor did I actually put said file into use by installing it, that didn't matter: the fact that I'd started the download was enough to trigger the response from the law firm seeding the torrent (entrapment, anyone?) to fire off an email to my ISP with the relevant IP info, etc.

Don't think for a moment any of you are "safe" when you're online. Not even Tor can absolutely and unquestionably guarantee anonymity. No such thing exists anymore... hasn't for a very long time.
 
yer joe i agree with that, everything is trackable these days, mind you its funny, pirating isnt taken so seriously in Australia, by our laws that is, i just read about a guy who was cought filming a movie, he got a slap on the wrist, and some guy had downloaded like 20 dvd's and got a $400 fine or something
 
I once did an experiment and removed my router and turned off the software firewall. I left AVG antivirus running though and then I ran a P2P client and sure enough it wasn't long before AVG detected some attempts at trojan injection on my PC.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
What cracks me up is good ol' http download right from the *nix distros site is pretty much just as fast..always is for me.

Getting a Windows service pack from other than a solid trusted source like Microsofts wicked fast download servers...//shrug...

And those that think they can easily spot a poisoned download being just 1/2 awake or being able to stare at a hash (that's quite easily gotten around)...it's just a matter of time til you're bit and have to format/reinstall, not if, but when.
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Exactly.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
And those that think they can easily spot a poisoned download being just 1/2 awake or being able to stare at a hash (that's quite easily gotten around)...
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I'm curious, how exactly would you "easily" get round a SHA-1 hash?

I gather the algorithm was broken in 2005, but I wouldn't imagine it was a trivial matter even now, at least not without some very serious computing firepower.
 
Originally Posted by YeOldeStonecat View Post
What cracks me up is good ol' http download right from the *nix distros site is pretty much just as fast..always is for me.

Getting a Windows service pack from other than a solid trusted source like Microsofts wicked fast download servers...//shrug...

And those that think they can easily spot a poisoned download being just 1/2 awake or being able to stare at a hash (that's quite easily gotten around)...it's just a matter of time til you're bit and have to format/reinstall, not if, but when.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but other things are distributed across file sharing networks. Not everyone has a server or a large amount of bandwidth...
 
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