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Is This Likely Graphics Card?

D

deadman_uk

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
2,036
On my dads PC, I was playing Audiosurf when suddenly, mid game, the PC restarted. I checked CPU temperatures in the BIOS and they were in the high 60's) so I gave the inside of the computer a clean. Temperatures went down and upon reboot, I decided to play a game of Worms Reloaded.

An hour later, I loaded up Dragon Age but when my save game loaded, I can hear sound but saw only a pale yellow screen. I could not exit the game as the whole PC was frozen. I rebooted several more times, loading different Dragon Age save games but still the same issue. I thought the game was corrupt and decided to load up Saints Row 2. The menu loaded and and the first few frames of the game were displayed, but the PC then froze and I had to reboot. Attempting to load other games usually results in a black screen followed by the PC locking up. Simple games such as those from Popcap work fine, so does full screen HD video.

I am not sure if this is related but the PC has been having issues with registry permissions over the last week. Certain applications like Adobe Acrobat Reader refuse to install completely as various file permission errors occurs during installation. Going to the relevant keys in the registry prompts a similar message saying I do not have the correct permission to view/edit this key. I can manually give permisson to each key but this doesn't solve the whole problem, the registry appears corrupt. I am planning to install Windows 7 on the PC today but thought I would ask about the game issue. Is this a graphics card issue? I tested RAM and that came back fine.

Dads graphics card is an XFX Radeon HD 4890 XXX and he is currently running Windows Vista 64bit.

Thanks
 
What monitor resolution are you using? Which level of visual quality (for SR2 and DA)?

Which PSU (specific brand/model) are you using? How old is it?

Which version of Windows are you currently using? 32-bit or 64-bit?
 
tiraides said:
What monitor resolution are you using? Which level of visual quality (for SR2 and DA)?

Which PSU (specific brand/model) are you using? How old is it?

Which version of Windows are you currently using? 32-bit or 64-bit?
Click to expand...

Resolution in Windows and within games is 1920x1080. Level of visual quality in games is irrelevant, games were working perfectly before on maximum details, now they won't load at all, just a black screen.

I already told you what version of Windows I am using. Not sure what PSU is in the machine but it's been running the PC fine for over 2 years without a problem.
 
deadman_uk said:
Not sure what PSU is in the machine but it's been running the PC fine for over 2 years without a problem.
Click to expand...

Well find out what PSU he has. Just because it's working fine for the past two years doesn't rule it out as a culprit whatsoever.

With that said, could be a motherboard or OS issue in regards to the registry issues. The problems you described for games are in line with PSU and GPU issues.
 
My apologies for missing the Windows bit, but I'm just trying to figure out the full picture before I make any suggestions. However, the PSU and its age are relevant concerns as many power supplies (most notably, "generic" brands that many people aren't familiar with) can't handle the full load that they're rated for.

PSU notwithstanding, it may very well be a video card issue. Did you register the card shortly after it first arrived? If so, you should be able to return it via RMA for a new/working card.

Regarding the registry issues, see whether or not you can uninstall and reinstall the offending programs. If you still receive the "administrator required" error message, it may be an OS issue; a Repair installation (or, at worst case, a full reinstall) may be needed.
 
Just did a clean install of Windows 7 and installed graphics card drivers, same issue, black screen then crash when loading games, however, game menus and introductions work fine, it's loading the game itself which causes the crashing.

Danny Bui said:
Well find out what PSU he has. Just because it's working fine for the past two years doesn't rule it out as a culprit whatsoever.

With that said, could be a motherboard or OS issue in regards to the registry issues. The problems you described for games are in line with PSU and GPU issues.
Click to expand...

yes, I understand what you are saying but knowing the specific brand and wattage of the power supply would not reveal anything. If the PSU is to blame for this, then how would this additional information help? I will have a look shortly though if you insist.

tiraides said:
My apologies for missing the Windows bit, but I'm just trying to figure out the full picture before I make any suggestions. However, the PSU and its age are relevant concerns as many power supplies (most notably, "generic" brands that many people aren't familiar with) can't handle the full load that they're rated for.

PSU notwithstanding, it may very well be a video card issue. Did you register the card shortly after it first arrived? If so, you should be able to return it via RMA for a new/working card.

Regarding the registry issues, see whether or not you can uninstall and reinstall the offending programs. If you still receive the "administrator required" error message, it may be an OS issue; a Repair installation (or, at worst case, a full reinstall) may be needed.
Click to expand...

If the PSU isn't good enough to handle the load, why has it worked for over 2 years without issue? I really think we can rule out this. I'm not saying the PSU is not to blame, as if it's faulty, sure, this could explain it. I believe I did register the card, although I will have to check that. I think my dad has the warranty papers somewhere, I will have to look those up too.

How do I rule out PSU without bringing in another PSU?
 
A bad quality PSU can have out of spec ripple (basically bad voltage regulation). This can mean it can perfectly power the system for years but cause damage along the way to basically anything with capcitators. Which is well just about everything, motherboard, video cards, etc. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=391159 Of course if that is the case the PSU has already done its damage to your system and the 'culprit' at this point might be your motherboard or GPU as they are the things actually not working but was caused by your PSU for example. I would try another PSU if it is an option anyway, same with video card to try to isolate the issue, but it depends how much work you want to do troubleshooting.
 
Thanks Anchen,

I loaded Photoshop CS5 x64 and selected the hand tool (by holding space bar), when I attempt to drag the canvas with the hand tool, the PC freezes for a few seconds, then the screen goes completely blue. I have no choice but to reboot. Does this shed any light on what's the cause? This suggests to me graphics card. I cannot test another PSU, I don't have one, but graphics card I guess I can get hold of a spare and try this but this wouldn't be for a few days at least.

Card is XFX and has just missed it's retailers (scan.co.uk) 1 year warranty. Card was NOT registered on XFX site when it was purchased, but if I register it now, do I still qualify for the extended warranty?

Thanks
 
Could well be the memory. I know you said you teted it, but what with?

Download Memtest86+ and burn it to a CD and boot from it.

http://www.memtest.org/#downiso

Just let it run, if you get any errors then you'll need to start diagnosing which ram sticks are bad.
 
spine said:
Could well be the memory. I know you said you teted it, but what with?

Download Memtest86+ and burn it to a CD and boot from it.

http://www.memtest.org/#downiso

Just let it run, if you get any errors then you'll need to start diagnosing which ram sticks are bad.
Click to expand...

Tested it with Windows Vista Memory Diagnostic and now again with Windows 7 version. This is essentially Memtest right? It passed both times...

PSU is a Corsair TX650.

Reloaded Photoshop, didn't use the hand tool this time, just a brush and it was fine for a minute then randomly froze. I just tried loading Audiosurf (a game that opens first in windowed mode), the introduction leading to the menu is blank and graphics card is making weird modem dial up sounds, is this normal? I then loaded up Beat Hazard and this works fine and oddly enough, Worms Reloaded plays perfectly.

I left PC on idle for 20 minutes and suddenly it displayed a plain yellow/orange screen. Very odd.
 
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deadman_uk said:
Card is XFX and has just missed it's retailers (scan.co.uk) 1 year warranty. Card was NOT registered on XFX site when it was purchased, but if I register it now, do I still qualify for the extended warranty?
Click to expand...
No.
deadman_uk said:
Tested it with Windows Vista Memory Diagnostic and now again with Windows 7 version. This is essentially Memtest right? It passed both times...
Click to expand...

Nope, very different testing methods. Memtest is usually more accurate than the Windows memory tests.
 
Ok, Ran Memtest for 45 minutes, it passed once and continued for the remaining time without errors. This, as well as the two Windows Memory Diagnostic tests I performed rules out RAM as far as I am concerned.

Along with the display problem I am also having problems with the DVD drive. Both in Vista and now 7, recently, discs will not open within Windows, the drive light just blinks and Windows remains in a loading state forever until I eject. When installing 7 from Vista, the drive refused to run the disc, yet the disc loaded fine when booting from DOS after the POST screen. Also, during POST and within the BIOS, the DVD drive is sometimes not listed. Is this related? To summarise the display issue, loading 3D games results in the screen going blank (sometimes complete black, sometimes blue, sometimes pale yelllow). Game introductions load fine, so does game menus. Worms Reloaded has no problems, nor does the 2D game Beat hazard but Audiosurf remains black in it's windowed state. I left the PC on idle for 20 minutes and the screen went blue on it's own, but I also watched a 3 hour movie and had no issues.

I will try another graphics card soon if I can but I think this sounds like Motherboard or PSU, I am not sure...
 
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I would just replace the PSU. I'm just getting that feeling after reading the thread thus far.
 
criccio said:
I would just replace the PSU. I'm just getting that feeling after reading the thread thus far.
Click to expand...

So a faulty PSU would cause ALL the issues I am having? The problem with the DVD drive tells me that graphics card is not the cause. I don't want my dad to buy a new PSU and then find out that it's not the issue. Argh, I hate computers when they go wrong :(
 
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PSU is fine.

Too many people on forums recommend replacing it without any real thought and it's often not actually the culprit. A corsair 650TX is a rebranded Seasonic PSU. Damn good quality. It's a single rail PSU which is where the electrical 'modem noise' as you describe it is partly coming from. This is normal.

Adobe CS5 uses graphics hardware acceleration so the fact this causes a problem almost instantly indicates the card is at fault.

You've definitely ruled out the ram, it's not the PSU (trust me, I have the same one) so it's gotta be the card I'd say. Only way to be sure is to put another card in the machine to test it, that's the next step.
 
spine said:
PSU is fine.

Too many people on forums recommend replacing it without any real thought and it's often not actually the culprit. A corsair 650TX is a rebranded Seasonic PSU. Damn good quality. It's a single rail PSU which is where the electrical 'modem noise' as you describe it is partly coming from. This is normal.

Adobe CS5 uses graphics hardware acceleration so the fact this causes a problem almost instantly indicates the card is at fault.

You've definitely ruled out the ram, it's not the PSU (trust me, I have the same one) so it's gotta be the card I'd say. Only way to be sure is to put another card in the machine to test it, that's the next step.
Click to expand...

Going to try another card in the next hour, but I don't think GPU would cause the drive to sometimes not be detected at POST and not read discs at all during Windows (reads discs fine if I boot from disc).

I will let you guys know what happens with the replacement card.
 
Ok, installed an NVIDIA 8500GT and loaded up several games such as Saints Row 2 and AudioSurf (2 of the games that didn't work with the 4890 installed) and they displayed fine without crashing the PC. However, DVD drive is still not reading discs inside Windows, it just sits there with a blinking light. This sort of looks like graphics card but could it still be PSU or Motherboard? I ask because the 8500GT takes ALOT less power than the 4890, this could play a role in the issue. Although I don't want to mess around with my own card, I may try my 4890 inside my dads PC and see what happens but this won't be today. I appreciate further input.
 
Why can't it be that BOTH the graphics card AND DVD drive have gone bad?

Actually, I think you've changed the AHCI settings in your bios having starting playing about with things to fix it. Sounds like a software issue if you can boot cds/dvds from the drive.

Is your DVD drive SATA or PATA? is/was AHCI enabled for the respective controller before and after your played about in the bios?
 
spine said:
Why can't it be that BOTH the graphics card AND DVD drive have gone bad?

Actually, I think you've changed the AHCI settings in your bios having starting playing about with things to fix it. Sounds like a software issue if you can boot cds/dvds from the drive.

Is your DVD drive SATA or PATA? is/was AHCI enabled for the respective controller before and after your played about in the bios?
Click to expand...

I suppose the DVD drive could have gone bad but it sounds odd that it would the same time as the GPU. I did not change anything in the BIOS, settings were the same as they have always been. I did load the optimal defaults today and disabled onboard audio but this didn't help. Sometimes the drive is detected during bootup, sometimes not. Drive now never works in windows but it is detected and I can view properties.

I tried another DVD drive and this works fine so perhaps the original drive is faulty. original drive is PATA (IDE) so is the replacement. I'm not sure what AHCI is but I know I haven't changed any settings.
 
It's probably a coincidence then that the graphics card and dvd drive had gone bad at the same time.

You'd probably find the dvd drive had been bad for alot longer and it only caught your attention when you started having problems with the graphics card.

I rarely put any CD/DVDs in my PC these days so if my DVD drive was dead right now, I wouldn't notice for 2 weeks at least, probably longer. And I'd probably only use it to run a boot CD to diagnose a fault when it arose.

So yeah, coincidence! And so it seems it was the graphics card causing the problems after all.
 
spine said:
It's probably a coincidence then that the graphics card and dvd drive had gone bad at the same time.

You'd probably find the dvd drive had been bad for alot longer and it only caught your attention when you started having problems with the graphics card.

I rarely put any CD/DVDs in my PC these days so if my DVD drive was dead right now, I wouldn't notice for 2 weeks at least, probably longer. And I'd probably only use it to run a boot CD to diagnose a fault when it arose.

So yeah, coincidence! And so it seems it was the graphics card causing the problems after all.
Click to expand...


Do you think it's worth me putting my 4890 in his machine? or would this provide nothing additional? I would like to do this but he doesn't live close to me and this would require further travel and I can't do this until a few days.

So it appears my dad has lost his warranty with XFX because he only registered his card this week when he purchased it in late July 2009, is this correct? Would XFX not offer him a warranty service if I can show them the original invoice/receipt? I will ask them myself but thought I would ask here too...
 
It wouldn't hurt to give them a phone call and see if you can't email someone a scan of your receipt.

If all else fails, and the card is as good as dead, I would remove the heatsink of the card, clean off the gunk from the gpu and re-apply some decent thermal grease. Couldn't hurt to try that as a last ditch effort.


And that gets you nowhere, then there's always the oven trick. ;)
 
XFX suggests I contact my retailer for a warranty service which I shall do but I am not sure how helpful they will be. I have suggested to my dad to purchase a new graphics card because I am hoping this will solve the problem. I will either select an eVGA NVIDIA GTX 460 1GB or an XFX Radeon HD 5850 1GB as these are similar in performance to the 4890 and under £200.

Thanks all for your help and I will update you all if/when I find out new information.
 
You seem to want to end this very easily on behalf of your Dad (UK based).

I would recommend the 5850 (1GB). Very good card, very good power/watt performance, and very good value/top performance.

I hope this helps you :p


I'm sure I speak for everyone here; glad we [H]elped you ;)
 
spine said:
You seem to want to end this very easily on behalf of your Dad (UK based).
Click to expand...

I do not understand what you mean by this, can you explain?

Thanks for the recommendation! The GTX 460 is £30 cheaper though so I MAY go with that but I will urge my dad to select the better 5850 as we all know this is slightly better :)
 
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Just ordered the XFX Radeon HD 5850 with next day delivery. I visited Dabs via Quidco for £6 cashback and used a £10 discount code I found on Google. If this doesn't fix the problem, I am not sure what to do!

A quick question if someone knows. How is the temperature and power of the 5850 compared to my dads existing 4890 XXX ?
 
http://techreport.com/articles.x/17652/9


This particular review shows numbers a bit more extreme (for the better) than I saw in some other reviews but it was complete for power/noise/temps. Short story across all reviews is the 5850 is cooler, quieter, and draws less power than the 4890 at both idle and load.
 
spine said:
PSU is fine.

Too many people on forums recommend replacing it without any real thought and it's often not actually the culprit. A corsair 650TX is a rebranded Seasonic PSU. Damn good quality. It's a single rail PSU which is where the electrical 'modem noise' as you describe it is partly coming from. This is normal.

Adobe CS5 uses graphics hardware acceleration so the fact this causes a problem almost instantly indicates the card is at fault.

You've definitely ruled out the ram, it's not the PSU (trust me, I have the same one) so it's gotta be the card I'd say. Only way to be sure is to put another card in the machine to test it, that's the next step.
Click to expand...

Just because Corsair makes a good PSU does not mean that it can't go bad.Unless you've checked the PSU's voltage rails with a voltmeter how the hell do you know if it's the culprit or not ?

What you've described OP could be any number of things. Bad Video card, bad PSU, bad motherboard, bad memory, bad CD drive, hell even bad cabling can cause the PC to act strange.

I'd be looking at either the Video Card or PSU first.
 
Kangg said:
Just because Corsair makes a good PSU does not mean that it can't go bad.Unless you've checked the PSU's voltage rails with a voltmeter how the hell do you know if it's the culprit or not ?

What you've described OP could be any number of things. Bad Video card, bad PSU, bad motherboard, bad memory, bad CD drive, hell even bad cabling can cause the PC to act strange.

I'd be looking at either the Video Card or PSU first.
Click to expand...

Did you read all my posts? Where I described that I tested RAM several times using different programs including Memtest? Where I described that I installed an 8500GT and problems went away? And where I installed a new DVD drive and this problem was fixed? I do understand though that this could still be something other than video card such as PSU and motherboard but we will all know soon enough.
 
XFX have given me a warranty reference number which I have given to my retailer, scan.co.uk. Scan have issued me with an RMA number and stated I must return the card to them. Looks like my dad will be getting a warranty on this card after all.
 
5850 card arrived today and all is fine, games now load without displaying a blank screen followed by locking up the PC, however now I am having an odd problem which I've made a new thread about here
 
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