I don't think so. Unless NVIDIA's next cards just absolutely flop and ATI shelves any plans for a 5870 X2 for the next two years I don't think we'll be able to count the 5870 among those rare cards that dominate for such a long period of time.
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Is the 5870 the new 8800GTX?
- Thread starter SpeedyVV
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Agreed. That's why the 8800 GTX was considered a huge leap. nVidia only brought out the Ultra which I passed on.
The 5870 will be remembered as well as the GTX-280 was. A good, fast card at release but soon outdone by refresh cards.
But besides the performance of the 5870, it WILL be remembered for bringing "Eyefinity" to the masses, basically the $299 Matrox TH2G on the card for free, in 2010 you will see the extreme [H]ard Gamer running triple monitors be more common.
And the energy efficiency the 5870 brings to the table, is nothing to sneeze at either.
But besides the performance of the 5870, it WILL be remembered for bringing "Eyefinity" to the masses, basically the $299 Matrox TH2G on the card for free, in 2010 you will see the extreme [H]ard Gamer running triple monitors be more common.
And the energy efficiency the 5870 brings to the table, is nothing to sneeze at either.
cannondale06
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when you consider that its only HALF of ATIs flagship card then it is most certainly pricey.I think it's more like the new GTX 280, save for being less outrageously priced.
The 8800gtx was followed by two bad turnouts from Ati in the 2000/3000 series, then met by the 4000 which competed on the same level as it. To me this seems to be the reason that most people hold the 8800gtx in such high regard. If Nvidia don't make a worthy come back to the 5870 for another two generations, then yes the 5870 could well be another 8800gtx.
The future will tell.
The future will tell.
cannondale06
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for the price you probably paid for it I would hope its still useful. luckily I didnt need a card when the 8800gtx came out so I skipped that ridiculously priced card. thanks to ATI having a good 4000 series I was able to have a gtx260 for $180 nearly a year ago.
Agreed. Good features, but not that much raw power people were expecting
cannondale06
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how much raw power were you expecting? the card performs almost exactly as it should based on its specs especially for release drivers.
also the majority of the people buying them arent going to get the exact numbers they see in most of the benchmarks anyway since they dont have a system with an overclocked i7.
stateofjermaine
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Seems like legendary status is not determined by how well a card performs against the competitor's previous offering, but against its next.
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cannondale06
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yeah but that competitor needs to hurry up because only whats available now can actually be compared.
LstBrunnenG
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Not only that, but against competing offerings from the same company. The 9800 GTX certainly didn't unseat it.
My money is on "No." since I doubt GT300 will flop entirely.At the very least it will be competitive, in a 280 vs. 4870 sort of way.
stateofjermaine
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Oh, for sure. I know NVIDIA is a bit late to the party this round. But I am not thinking in terms of marketing success and sales. I'm just thinking in terms of raw performance. In order for the 5870 to achieve legendary status a year or two from now, it will have to outperform the GT300, and possibly NVIDIA's following offering.
That will be a tall order.
Agreed. The 5870 is a good card to be sure, but I don't think it will have that kind of staying power.
You're wrong. My 8800GTX is absolutely the best video card I've ever purchased in terms of initial performance, and performance years after the fact. It still plays pretty much every game just fine. All of the other cards you mentioned were very quickly made obsolete by newer tech, while my 8800GTX is still a very good card by standards set by today's games.
With the AMD Demos Dual Cypress Graphics Card - Hemlock coming at rumored less than $500, tough to call the HD5870 the new 8800GTX.
cannondale06
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so thats the 5870x2? so two 5870 cards on a stick will only costs $100 more that a single 5870?With the AMD Demos Dual Cypress Graphics Card - Hemlock coming at rumored less than $500, tough to call the HD5870 the new 8800GTX.
cannondale06
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well the the gtx295 was two gtx260 cards with the last cluster enabled not two of the more expensive 512bit gtx285 cards.
Keeping the price down will sell more for them.
They mentioned the clocks were still not final. It's possible unlike the HD4870x2 out preforming two 4870s, it won't perform better than two HD5870s in CF so they're pricing it accordingly.
They mentioned the clocks were still not final. It's possible unlike the HD4870x2 out preforming two 4870s, it won't perform better than two HD5870s in CF so they're pricing it accordingly.
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You really need to check your sources. A GTX 280 was (on release):
CoD 4 54% faster than 8800 GTX
HL3 Ep 2 72% faster than 8800 GTX
Quake Wars 58% faster than 8800 GTX
Crysis 43% faster than 8800 GTX
Assassins Creed 68% faster than 8800 GTX
GRID 41% faster than 8800 GTX
All numbers taken from the highest resolutions and settings graphs: http://techreport.com/articles.x/14934/1
Now the HD 5870:
Far Cry 2: 51% faster than the HD 4890
Wolfensetin: 50% faster than the HD 4890
Left 4 Dead: 52% faster than the HD 4890
HAWX: 21% faster than the HD 4890
Sacred 2 Fallen Angel: 53% faster than the HD 4890
Crysis Warhed: 35% faster than the HD 4890
All numbers taken from the highest resolutions and settings graphs: http://techreport.com/articles.x/17618
First, and across the board in the games at the time, the performance increase from a 8800 GTX to a GTX 280 was higher than the performance increase from a HD 4890 to a HD 5870. And second, the HD 5870 is not even close to double the performance of the previous generation. And if you compare it to the GTX 285 instead of the HD 4890, the performance increase is even less.
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sirmonkey1985
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2 GTX 275's or also known as 2 GTX 260 hybrids.. if you say they are GTX 260's.. you have to use the hybrid part.. because they are not true GTX 260's.. thus why the GTX 275 was created..
cannondale06
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well the gtx275 did not exist then. to make the the gtx295 they simply took two gtx260 cards and enabled the last cluster. they left everything else the same as for as memory and clockspeeds. of course then later they took that same gtx260 with the enabled cluster put better specced memory on there, raised the clocks and called it it a gtx275. I guess it really isnt a "gtx260" anymore once you enable that last cluster but either way thats what the gtx295 and gtx275 come from.
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sirmonkey1985
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check your facts again.. because he said last generation.. 8800GTX was not the last generation before the GTX series.. it was the 9 series.. which would of been the 9800GTX/9800GTX+ and 9800GX2..
sirmonkey1985
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which is why its called a gtx 260 hybrid.. because of the shader count being different..
To be technical about it, you can't say they "enabled a TPC" on a GTX 260, to get a GTX 275, but rather that they disabled one of the 64 bit memory paths from a GT200b chip that wasn't really GTX 285 material.
GT200/GT200b chips in any GTX 260 variant are in essence GT200 chips that had defects in one (GTX 260 216) or two (GTX 260 192) TPCs and thus had them disabled completely, along with one of the 64 bit memory paths. They are called salvage parts.
ATI is finally adopting that strategy aswell, for their second best single GPU card (HD 5850), since in the past they had always used the exact same chip in both their top single GPU cards and just adjusted clock frequencies or memory configuration/type (X1900 XTX/X1900 XT; HD 3870/HD 3850; HD 4870/HD 4850)
Er 9800 GX2 ? Then we should compare the HD 5870 to the HD 4870 X2 and then that guy's comment about the HD 5870 being almost double of the past generation makes even less sense. Even less if we use the GTX 295...
And no, we should compare single chip from one generation to a single chip of the next. And yes, I could use the 9800 GTXs numbers, but as we all know, the 9800 GTX brought almost zero performance increase over the 8800 GTX. If I did use the 9800 GTX in those numbers, the performance increase across the board from a 9800 GTX to a GTX 280 would be actually higher than it is from a 8800 GTX to a GTX 280, at those resolutions and settings.
What a bunch of nonsense. First the GTX 275 is not a "GTX 260 hybrid". And second, a GTX 275 is not missing any of the "shader count" from a GT200b chip. It has all 24 TPCs enabled. What's disabled is one of the 64 bit memory paths, that make it a 448 bit memory interface chip.
You can't even compare the 5870 to the 8800GTX. It was so far ahead of it's time that even when the competitor released a card six months later it was still significantly faster. It stayed top dog for years (until the 8800 ultra which is just an overclocked 8800GTX). It still plays most games today maxed at 16*10. No other card has come close to that other then the ati 9700, original geforce or the voodoo 1.
The 5870 is a good card, but it's not a classic.
The 5870 is a good card, but it's not a classic.
You really need to check your math. Are they not explaining how percentages work in junior high these days? All of your numbers are 100% too high. For one card to be "150% faster than" another card, it would need to be 2.5 times as fast.
I think the 5870 is a fantastic card, but it's fantastic for different reasons than what made the 8800GTX great. The 8800GTX was great because it removed a major bottleneck in shader architecture; I can't think of another major bottleneck in video card design that when eliminated would bring about such a drastic performance increase (maybe someone else can chime in here). Anyway, what makes the 5870 great is it's feature set. You have a good performance increase from the last generation, as well as a whole new feature set and technology - DX11, Eyefinity, increased power efficiency, etc. I think what determines what a "classic" is is not how great it is, but how much better it is than everything on the market. GPUs are really becoming advanced design-wise, and I don't think there's a poor example of GPU design on the market (at least in the high-end).
Also, if you're going to compare 8800GTX to GTX280 leap to a 5870, you'd have to compare it to the jump between the 3870X2 and 5870 (both ~1 year 8 months between launches). And that really puts into perspective the performance of this card.
And to those thinking the 5870X2 will be $500, I'm going to say it's not happening. It's like when everyone said the the 5870 would be $299 (guessing from last years 48xx release?), and the MSRP was $379. The reason is AMD has no competition for the card, why would it sell for less?
Also, if you're going to compare 8800GTX to GTX280 leap to a 5870, you'd have to compare it to the jump between the 3870X2 and 5870 (both ~1 year 8 months between launches). And that really puts into perspective the performance of this card
.And to those thinking the 5870X2 will be $500, I'm going to say it's not happening. It's like when everyone said the the 5870 would be $299 (guessing from last years 48xx release?), and the MSRP was $379. The reason is AMD has no competition for the card, why would it sell for less?
Well, in reality what's wrong is the term I used: "faster". It's not 150% faster of course, so my bad. I'll update the post. Thanks for pointing it out.
The 5870 provides great features but performance wise, nope! after reading all the reviews, it don't WOW me enough to buy it on the spot like the Voodoo2, Geforce256 DDR, 9700Pro or 8800GTX did... waiting to see what the GT300 has to offer first before making up my decisions
smartpatrol
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5870 isn't the new 8800GTX. More like the new 4870! It doesn't completely destroy all the competition, but it delivers KICK ASS performance, very close to Nvidia's best, at a much better price.
If they release the 5870x2 at $600, that will be more like the 8800GTX. Ridiculously powerful and ridiculously expensive.
If they release the 5870x2 at $600, that will be more like the 8800GTX. Ridiculously powerful and ridiculously expensive.
I think the 5870X2 will be the next 8800GTX, will most likely sell at a similar price point as the GTX did back in the day, and the X2 will really destroy everything in sight.
Question is will the 5870X2 be two 5870's or two 5850's that most people expect ? But still even if the 5870X2 is 2-5850's that is still pretty dang powerful, so take the 5850 benchmarks and add approx 80% and that will be the 5870X2 performance.
Question is will the 5870X2 be two 5870's or two 5850's that most people expect ? But still even if the 5870X2 is 2-5850's that is still pretty dang powerful, so take the 5850 benchmarks and add approx 80% and that will be the 5870X2 performance.
Actualy that's not too far off. The Geforce GTX 280 was about twice as fast or more than the Geforce 8800GTX was. I ran with one for a couple of days when my second Geforce GTX 280 died. The single card was easily as fast as my 8800GTX SLI setup was.
I have both the 8800GTX and GTX-280. No way the GTX-280 was twice as fast or 100% faster then the 8800, I did tons of research on the GTX-280 be fore I bought it, and sure it was much faster the the 8800GTX, but no way 100% faster, I think more like 50-80%.