Is SLI/Crossfire worth it?

[GoldenTiger]

The bottom line is that you simply CAN'T get the same performance from a single card as multi-GPU, at least when you're talking about cards of the same performance level.

It's seems as though people are looking for excuses, microstutter (which can happen with only a single card actually though not as much as multi-GPU), support, etc. Yes there are issues but multi-GPU overall these days is very good and it will almost always yield much more performance. Sometimes a game may need a hack or a patch but multi-GPU just tends to work well in the end.

Top-line gaming without multi-GPU just isn't possible anymore, there's simply do debate about that. If you want to stick with single monitors you can still do pretty well with a single high-end card even on a 30" monitor, but when you got to multi-screen HD+ screens and 3D, single GPUs today simply don't have the performance to drive these things.

....and BINGO was his name-o . I would argue even at 2560x1600 though that multi-GPU high-end cards are a necessity nowadays still though . Regardless, as you said once you go to surround or 3d, or both, it's a whole 'nother ballgame...

 

[Dan_D]

Bingo!
If you don't like to tinker with things or have "microstutter" problems, buy an XBox 360.

Nothing is perfect, but multi-GPU gaming is improving daily, and there IS no comparison, the end.

There are no single card solutions (not counting GTX 590 or HD 6990, or others) that can compete with SLi or Crossfire.

I wouldn't say "it's improving daily." It has been improving for years and it's also been perfectly viable and allowed for next generation like performance out of today's generation hardware. It's expensive but it's been working great since the 6800 Ultra / X800XT-PE days and continues to do so now. Though both technologies are far more refined than they were then. To be fair, the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 590 and AMD Radeon HD 6990 depend on SLI and Crossfire respectively for their performance. If you want something more than what a single GPU card can offer, SLI and Crossfire are your only choices and the only means of reaching certain performance levels. You can not run 3x30" or 3x24" monitors in 2D much less 3D without having far more power than a single GPU could offer at present.

 

[CruisD64]

I've never had problems with multi-gpu except for early driver issues with a 4870x2 which were quickly resolved.

I've had

4850cf
4870x2
4890cf
470SLI

All have been great setups though the 470SLI has been the most enjoyable of the lot.

 

[Saabjock]

Depends on your resolution and how much 'eye-candy' you want on while you play. I've had a 7800GT-SLI, an 8800GTS-SLI, a GTX470-SLI and now a 560Ti-SLI setup. All have worked flawlessly and I've definately been able to ratchet-up every bit of visual candy, in everything I've played with those setups.I personally would not go Tri-SLI at this point for a number of reasons. On just about every in-game benchmarks I've seen recently using tri-SLI, the third card seems like it was using arounf 25% of it's total capability. That to me is not a good return. Is it additional performance? YES. Is it valuable per dollar performance? NO..

 

[Lorien]

Definetely worth it. I'm loving my triple 24" IPS with Crossfire 6970s Eyefinity setup that paid for itself with bitcoins

 

[Gnasher]

Others have already done this type of comparison with frametime logging and it looks almost identical to the brief example I provided. With modern SLI/CF setups, performance is almost consistently always 85-90%+ scaling. 10 years ago you may have had a point on it not scaling as well (or even low-to-no scaling), but today? None at all.

Wrong, I ran benchmarks when I first got 2x5870 and there are still games that scale poorly, or some not at all. There are even some older games that perform worse with dual GPUs than a single GPU. I don't want to have to test every game I own so that I can set up a single or dual profile for them. Last dual GPU for me, end of story.

 

[GoldenTiger]

Wrong, I ran benchmarks when I first got 2x5870 and there are still games that scale poorly, or some not at all. There are even some older games that perform worse with dual GPUs than a single GPU. I don't want to have to test every game I own so that I can set up a single or dual profile for them. Last dual GPU for me, end of story.

Did you read the thread? Some titles need minor tweaks, yes. Older games would run 100 percent fine even without profiles, or do you want 1200 fps instead of 700? Virtually all remotely recent titles work properly, and most of the rest work with tweaks. This is easily verified by other users and countless reviews. Sorry but I call PEBKAC. It takes under 5 mins as a onetime thing for games that don't work out of the box, again so what.... you will be playing it cor months anyway.

 

[heatlesssun]

Did you read the thread? Some titles need minor tweaks, yes. Older games would run 100 percent fine even without profiles, or do you want 1200 fps instead of 700? Virtually all remotely recent titles work properly, and most of the rest work with tweaks.

This is been my experience to a tee. Plus the Radeon 5000s aren't particularly good hardware to make judgments about multi-GPU, were talking about 2 year old cards there and the 6000s seemed to make significant strides in scaling, especially in the are of multi-monitor scaling.

 

[CruisD64]

Did you read the thread? Some titles need minor tweaks, yes. Older games would run 100 percent fine even without profiles, or do you want 1200 fps instead of 700? Virtually all remotely recent titles work properly, and most of the rest work with tweaks. This is easily verified by other users and countless reviews. Sorry but I call PEBKAC. It takes under 5 mins as a onetime thing for games that don't work out of the box, again so what.... you will be playing it cor months anyway.

Agreed. Reminds me of the "Oblivion" rename for Fallout 3. Worked like a charm!

 

[zack_a]

It should be fine

 

[LuminaryJanitor]

Others have already done this type of comparison with frametime logging

I've looked all over, and I can't find anything recent. Plenty of opinions, but not a shred of real data on nVidia's current generation. Though it's not helped by the thousands of clueless forum-dwellers out there yelling "Microstutter!" every time Fallout 3 loads a texture on the fly...

... and it looks almost identical to the brief example I provided.

Sorry, but those numbers don't even make sense. Each individual card should be running at a steady rate, but you've got them jumping between 2ms and 7ms per frame. Anyway, even if they were consistent, they're still a complete fabrication. You can't tell us what's really going on until you measure it.

 

[GoldenTiger]

I've looked all over, and I can't find anything recent. Plenty of opinions, but not a shred of real data on nVidia's current generation. Though it's not helped by the thousands of clueless forum-dwellers out there yelling "Microstutter!" every time Fallout 3 loads a texture on the fly...


Sorry, but those numbers don't even make sense. Each individual card should be running at a steady rate, but you've got them jumping between 2ms and 7ms per frame. Anyway, even if they were consistent, they're still a complete fabrication. You can't tell us what's really going on until you measure it.

The cards will NOT always run at a steady rate, because each frame is different in terms of rendering requirements and time needed to complete... which is of course what drives framerate. You can see data here on current-gen frame time testing: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...stutter-in-latest-gen-cards-examples-included . The numbers I provided as illustrations actually are fairly close to accurate in a worst-case "microstuttering" scenario.

P.S. Yes, less-technically savvy people crying "microstutter!" instead of understanding what they're seeing is "disk load hitching" is a hindrance to finding good info .

 

[Gnasher]

Did you read the thread? Some titles need minor tweaks, yes. Older games would run 100 percent fine even without profiles, or do you want 1200 fps instead of 700? Virtually all remotely recent titles work properly, and most of the rest work with tweaks. This is easily verified by other users and countless reviews. Sorry but I call PEBKAC. It takes under 5 mins as a onetime thing for games that don't work out of the box, again so what.... you will be playing it cor months anyway.

It is not PEBKAC. Go buy Cliffs of Dover (fairly new game) and lets see you come bvack with your glowing review of how well dual GPU works in that game.

Unlike you, I run simulations and not just mainstream kiddy fare. All those benchmark sites only test with mainstream games too.

Here, mull this over, "geek boy".

http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=20189

It should be understood that Multi-GPU support introduces all kinds of special problems for our engine as well as other game engines. One issue that is native to Multi-GPU support is the so called “micro-stutters”. We have done our best to negate micro-stutters and in almost cases there are no stutters. However, with an SLI/Crossfire system you may encounter a small stutter when the sun comes into view. There is not much we can do about this; even nVidia acknowledges these issues are a challenge for SLI systems. Also, when the sun is blocked by part of your plane it takes longer for it to disappear. As before, there is nothing we can do about this issue.

 

[Gnasher]

P.S. Yes, less-technically savvy people crying "microstutter!" instead of understanding what they're seeing is "disk load hitching" is a hindrance to finding good info .

Sure, the game developer's comments I just posted are those of people who know jack shit and you are soooooo HARD. Disk load hitching? Didn't you post that same BS over at simHQ recently and told everyone to get an SSD? I've tested Cliffs of Dover with a Ramdisk even and it did not stop stuttering.

 

[hdgamer]

I'm currently playing at 2560X1600 on 2 GTX480's. Why is it that anytime I drop below 60 fps my games stutter? I rarely do drop below 60fps except in games like STALKER COP, Witcher 2, Metro 2033, etc. These games run smoother with one card then in sli. Is this normal?

 

[CaptNumbNutz]

A few years ago I dabled in SLI with a pair of 8800GTS'

Had the first for a while, liked it. Crysis tore it up of course. So I added a second one.

Didn't really help in Crysis, but whatever. Basically I didn't feel like it was worth the price and hassle. Didn't seem like the scaling was cost efficient at the time.

So lately I'm considering building a new computer with either an nVidia 560 or maybe an AMD 6950 or something. Probably more than enough for my gaming. But if I get a motherboard and powersupply and case to support it, and I decide to add a second card, is it worth it in your opinion? Has the tech matured since the 8800 days?

And is one better than the other? SLI - Crossfire


Thanks!

Right now it is only worth it if you game with a monitor resolution significantly greater than 1920x1080 (aka 1080p, most 23-24" monitors sold). This includes multi-monitor setups such as a NV Surround or Eyefinity. Otherwise just get the single best video card you can afford.

There are plenty of problems that crop up occasionally for Crossfire and SLI, including but not limited to driver bugs and game engine issues, that can make these setups a pain to work with sometimes. Some of these issues are easily remedied, others are not. But I honestly believe that is why the whole "buy one really cheap card now then get another later" mentality is not the route to take. You end up with all the possible issues multi card setups have with the high end cards when you could have just saved a little longer to get a single high end card that would work just as well. By cheap card, I am only referring to those that are considered below mid range, approx. $150 or less price bracket when newly released. After those low price brackets, the upper ranges tend to be a lot more powerful and the price brackets spread out more, so using a multi card setup using the lowest price high end cards sometimes trumps the $500-$700 uber monster elite dual gpu cards. But again, keep in mind just about any card out there over $200-$250 in price can completely max out 99% of games at the resolution of a typical single 24" monitor.

 

[GoldenTiger]

It is not PEBKAC. Go buy Cliffs of Dover (fairly new game) and lets see you come bvack with your glowing review of how well dual GPU works in that game.

Unlike you, I run simulations and not just mainstream kiddy fare. All those benchmark sites only test with mainstream games too.

Here, mull this over, "geek boy".

http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=20189

It should be understood that Multi-GPU support introduces all kinds of special problems for our engine as well as other game engines. One issue that is native to Multi-GPU support is the so called “micro-stutters”. We have done our best to negate micro-stutters and in almost cases there are no stutters. However, with an SLI/Crossfire system you may encounter a small stutter when the sun comes into view. There is not much we can do about this; even nVidia acknowledges these issues are a challenge for SLI systems. Also, when the sun is blocked by part of your plane it takes longer for it to disappear. As before, there is nothing we can do about this issue.

Sure, the game developer's comments I just posted are those of people who know jack shit and you are soooooo HARD. Disk load hitching? Didn't you post that same BS over at simHQ recently and told everyone to get an SSD? I've tested Cliffs of Dover with a Ramdisk even and it did not stop stuttering.

I don't know what simhq is, sir. I am a developer myself, fyi, . EDIT: Deleted extraneous text so as not to feed troll.

EDIT 2: All you have shown is a single game with a specific issue on a specific asset in the title that the developers have said is a known problem with their product. Additionally, what they describe is *not* micro-stuttering but load hitching, albeit from, likely, system memory. Developers are not immune to misusing terminology or misunderstanding what the community is telling them .

A single bug in a minor title is by no means damning of an entire major technology platform that works flawlessly in 99%+ of games/titles, and can have its issues resolved easily in the bulk of the remaining ones.

As for your RAMdisk issue, you're only proving my point by eliminating the only thing other than optimization issues on the title that could explain it . If it's not hitching by waiting for asset streaming from disk, and it's not hitching from multi-GPU itself as it is a proven technology in virtually all software, then it's hitching from the specific game and its own optimization or rendering codepaths.

 

[williamlfilson]

I have never had problems with multi-gpu except for early driver issues with a 4870x2 which were quickly resolved.

 

[hdnut]

I've been running SLI/Crossfire since 8800 GTS 640MB days. 8800 GTS 512 SLI was next, then 4870x2, then GTX 280 SLI, then GTX 460 SLI, and now GTX 580 SLI.

People who swear by microstutter must have some insane vision because I rarely see it, ever. Some games have very minor glitches due to multi-GPU config but it's rarely ever micro-stuttering from the games I've played. Metro 2033? Smooth. Crysis/Crysis 2? Like butter. Any Valve games? Like baby's butt. I can go on and on.

Getting tired of reading this FUD. The horse was long dead... you can stop the beating now.

*Edit

I had a GTX 295, too.

 

[skizzled]

I've been running Crossfire 6850's since they came out and hardly had any issues moving through each driver release. Granted, I'm only running games on a 1080p monitor, its mostly been silky smooth for me with the occasional game being stuttery or producing lower FPS (Metro 2033).

Overall, I am happy with the setup but will probably just buy a faster single card the next go around until I actually need to horsepower.

 

[Superjoe]

Right now it is only worth it if you game with a monitor resolution significantly greater than 1920x1080 (aka 1080p, most 23-24" monitors sold). This includes multi-monitor setups such as a NV Surround or Eyefinity. Otherwise just get the single best video card you can afford.

There are plenty of problems that crop up occasionally for Crossfire and SLI, including but not limited to driver bugs and game engine issues, that can make these setups a pain to work with sometimes. Some of these issues are easily remedied, others are not. But I honestly believe that is why the whole "buy one really cheap card now then get another later" mentality is not the route to take. You end up with all the possible issues multi card setups have with the high end cards when you could have just saved a little longer to get a single high end card that would work just as well. By cheap card, I am only referring to those that are considered below mid range, approx. $150 or less price bracket when newly released. After those low price brackets, the upper ranges tend to be a lot more powerful and the price brackets spread out more, so using a multi card setup using the lowest price high end cards sometimes trumps the $500-$700 uber monster elite dual gpu cards. But again, keep in mind just about any card out there over $200-$250 in price can completely max out 99% of games at the resolution of a typical single 24" monitor.

Okay, that's been my experience too. I just play at 1080p and my current GTX460 pretty much kills everything. I'll just keep it for my next build. When it comes up short, hopefully I can find a cheap twin to throw in to get me by.

Thanks!

 

[Kwisatz Haderach]

I love my 5870's. The only down side was it took about two months for Crysis 2 to get cross fire working correctly, and I have a bunch of problems with BC2. The screen goes black and flickers. I turn off Xfire, and it runs like a champ. All things aside, I will be going back to 2 cards when the AMD 7 series launch.

 

[MrGreen72]

I just bought a second 6870 that practically doubled my frame rate in every game I've tried so far. For about $150 I'd say it's one of the best PC upgrades I've made, so consider "fuck yeah" as my answer.

 

[ebduncan]

^

same here, i bought a second 6870 put in crossfire. I am running at 1080p before the crossfire Some game i would have to lower a setting or two, such as aa.

With the crossfire, it scaled perfectly 100% and I run all games at max settings now. I will soon be going to a 3- 21" (1080p) monitor setup. Should be able to handle it just fine at max settings.

So yes crossfire and sli are worth it. Amd has perfect scaling between the hd6x series cards. Sli is still good. There are a few driver issues from both sides depending on the game, but they are far and few.

 

[Habibus]

I recently upgraded my computer, but left my 4890 in for now (waiting for the 7xxx series). I bought a second 4890 on ebay and wow, I cant believe the difference it really made. Black ops runs much smoother in spam fests, Rift has doubled in FPS, etc. I used to have 4850s in crossfire, but got sick of messing with them and sold them for a single 4890. I am a believer in crossfire now, its much easier to setup now than before. I used to BSOD all the time with Win 7 64bit trying to upgrade the video drivers for instance, plus they didn't seem to improve the FPS as much as it does now. If the 7xxx series isn't that much of an improvement I may just go xfire 6950.

I would rather just have 1 fast card than 2 though. I like having the option a few years later getting a second card to boost performance a bit for cheap. I doubled my FPS for 100 dollars.

 

[CruisD64]

I recently upgraded my computer, but left my 4890 in for now (waiting for the 7xxx series). I bought a second 4890 on ebay and wow, I cant believe the difference it really made. Black ops runs much smoother in spam fests, Rift has doubled in FPS, etc. I used to have 4850s in crossfire, but got sick of messing with them and sold them for a single 4890. I am a believer in crossfire now, its much easier to setup now than before. I used to BSOD all the time with Win 7 64bit trying to upgrade the video drivers for instance, plus they didn't seem to improve the FPS as much as it does now. If the 7xxx series isn't that much of an improvement I may just go xfire 6950.

I would rather just have 1 fast card than 2 though. I like having the option a few years later getting a second card to boost performance a bit for cheap. I doubled my FPS for 100 dollars.

Yes. 4890cf is still killer! I recently sold my 4890cf setup because I picked up a 570 for $240 that had the backplate and highflow bracket. It was worth it for me, because I only paid $20 more after selling off my 4890's, but the 4890cf was definitely way faster in many games. The 570 suits me well though because that computer doesnt see too much gaming yet, and the lower power draw is noticeable. My room used to get really warm if I kept the windows closed. Now it doesn't

Sounds to me like you did what most people suggest, pick up one card, use it until you need another. Now you're reaping the benefits of CF. Nice!

 

[Superjoe]

What about power consumption? Does either crossfire or SLI shut down the second card when you're just browsing the net or otherwise idle?

 

[ebduncan]

if the cards are not being used they will idle. They still use power, but not all that much.

 

[pchow05]

i think they are worth if you either a ) have 3monitors or b) u have a card that is so so and instead of getting a better single gpu get crossfire/sli

 

[Gnasher]

I don't know what simhq is, sir. I am a developer myself, fyi, .

Cut back on the emoticons, dude, and take note of this part from what I posted, "even nVidia acknowledges these issues are a challenge for SLI systems". It is not just their game, it applies to many games.

You going to argue with Nvidia too? I have 2x5870 so am not just making random shit up. Anyway, each to their own but forgive me for not chanting the dual GPU mantra. I'm sure Nvidia and ATI love you for it though.

 

[PoopsMacClaude]

Hi,

Depends on the specific cards in question. Some scale with Crossfire/SLI better than others. For ATI, the 4000 series scaled really well, with the 5000 series falling behind in scalability, then with the 6000 series scaling the best so far.

When I went to SB from my LGA775 system, I kept my PSU, CD-ROM, storage HDDs, and my 4890. I will be adding another 4890 to my mATX setup very soon. HD4890s in Crossfire are supposed to perform like a single 6950. I paid $170 for my 4890 brand new, and another 4890 runs about ~50-70. I wont have DX11 and I will be consuming more power, but it really seems worth it. I will get at least another year or two out of these GPUs and will upgrade to the exponentially more powerful nextgen GPUs coming out in 2013-14.