Is Samsung becoming Apple

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techtechie

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After the title i like to add: Samsung you don't have Steve Jobs so go back and ride android into your quarterly profits.

I'm just wondering with this whole Tizen thing what Samsung is trying to prove. I mean if you look at the pie charts IOS is loosing out to android and windows phone. How do you possibly think samsung can make it on your own in a developed phone/OS market. With Apple loosing out (slowly) i fail to see how Samsung intends to show anything with its own OS.

I'd much rather run Ubuntu phone OS than anything Samsung branded after the disgrace they added to android.
 
Interesting approach they are taking. They seem to have gone out of their way to make it feel as much like Android as possible, especially for previous Samsung phone users. They are also quick to point out that "Tizen" is compatible with Android Apps.

So it doesn't necessarily seem like they are trying to start from scratch as much as they are trying to siphon off Android users who might not even understand the difference.

If they fully switched from Android to Tizen (as in, not just on low-cost phones for foreign markets), that would most likely represent the end of me ever buying a Samsung phone ever again, and that would probably hold true for my family also, where currently every single one of us uses a Samsung Galaxy phone (various models).
 
techtechie said:
After the title i like to add: Samsung you don't have Steve Jobs so go back and ride android into your quarterly profits.

I'm just wondering with this whole Tizen thing what Samsung is trying to prove. I mean if you look at the pie charts IOS is loosing out to android and windows phone. How do you possibly think samsung can make it on your own in a developed phone/OS market. With Apple loosing out (slowly) i fail to see how Samsung intends to show anything with its own OS.

I'd much rather run Ubuntu phone OS than anything Samsung branded after the disgrace they added to android.
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These days, it's only trying to become like Apple in that it doesn't want a third party having too much say over its fate.

It's pretty clear that Samsung has been bristling at having to include Google services at all. If Google hadn't put its foot down (the patent deal that included a backroom "stop replacing our stuff" agreement), Samsung would probably have either relegated the Google Play Store to a tiny corner or found a way to scrap it entirely. Tizen gives Samsung both a backup plan and a sword it can dangle over Google's head: don't boss us around too much, or we'll drop your platform. And Google genuinely can't afford to be on Samsung's bad side... if Samsung left, Android would have much less influence.

With that said, it's early days. Tizen might be more like Bada, a sideshow that fizzles out because there's no ecosystem. Like it or not, Samsung has shackled itself to someone else's software, and it may pay the price for that choice for quite a long time to come.
 
I read that this is being made to provide an open source app store so devs don't have to give up 33% to the "company store" whether it is apple or google & (hopefully) encourage new app dev & devs to participate due to higher profits from their work...
 
Samsung will never be rid of Google/Android. They may try to put Tizen in place, but they would literally cripple their infrastructure and lose a mass majority of their customer base.

I'm guessing Tizen is planned for small, less developed countries.
 
Its just the way big companies are. You are asking a question which is probably better phrased are all companies just like Microsoft. And the answer is pretty much yes. Once apple, google and Samsung got ahold of a lot of power they all stopped caring about openness or anything else and started to do all the same things MS did in the 90s. I find it hilarious that people cried like crazy back then about IE, MSN messenger etc... And you hear almost no one talking about imessage / hangouts, google plus etc.... Same crap new companies.

However if Tizen is compatible with android apps, it actually has a chance. But as many are thinking this could be the stupid move that Samsung makes that opens up the market for someone like Lenovo to hit hard. Could also be a golden opportunity for MS to make a big push while google is out fighting its largest phone maker.

On top of all that I find it interesting people really don't like this move, I mean is this not the spirit of Linux? Isnt this what people wanted? A major choice of OSes that can run the same apps?
 
rudy said:
On top of all that I find it interesting people really don't like this move, I mean is this not the spirit of Linux? Isnt this what people wanted? A major choice of OSes that can run the same apps?
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While there is some overlap Android/Google has it's own "fan" contingent separate from that of Linux.

The vast majority of the Android/Google fan group likely does not even associate Android with Linux.
 
Aurelius said:
These days, it's only trying to become like Apple in that it doesn't want a third party having too much say over its fate.

It's pretty clear that Samsung has been bristling at having to include Google services at all. If Google hadn't put its foot down (the patent deal that included a backroom "stop replacing our stuff" agreement), Samsung would probably have either relegated the Google Play Store to a tiny corner or found a way to scrap it entirely. Tizen gives Samsung both a backup plan and a sword it can dangle over Google's head: don't boss us around too much, or we'll drop your platform. And Google genuinely can't afford to be on Samsung's bad side... if Samsung left, Android would have much less influence.

With that said, it's early days. Tizen might be more like Bada, a sideshow that fizzles out because there's no ecosystem. Like it or not, Samsung has shackled itself to someone else's software, and it may pay the price for that choice for quite a long time to come.
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Honestly i think it is samsung who cant afford to loose google's android as a platform blackberry was destroyed by apple/android apple is being destroyed by android windows never even entered into competition...

Tizen is going to be more like web os
 
Samsung COULD be the next Apple... just not now. The Tizen thing is waaaaay too early.

Unfortunately this is how Samsung tends to operate. Release things waaaaay too early. Why not polish your product up a bit and bring a masterful piece of hardware(and software) to the table? I KNOW they could do it if they tried. THAT is the frustrating part. Samsung is capable of so much more.
 
I wouldn't mind if Tizen catches on. It's a far better design than FirefoxOS. FfOS was designed to be as inefficient as possible. Think Java is too fast / light on system resources? FirefoxOS. I hope Tizen isn't based on some ancient Linux kernel with terrible ARM support (requiring vendor-specific kernel hacks that F up the entire ecosystem of Android) like Android still is.

Android, eh, it has its issues.
 
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The way most people feel about Touchwiz how much of a chance does Sammy have to launch a decent OS?
 
dandragonrage said:
I wouldn't mind if Tizen catches on. It's a far better design than FirefoxOS. FfOS was designed to be as inefficient as possible. Think Java is too fast / light on system resources? FirefoxOS. I hope Tizen isn't based on some ancient Linux kernel with terrible ARM support (requiring vendor-specific kernel hacks that F up the entire ecosystem of Android) like Android still is.

Android, eh, it has its issues.
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Eh, I've tried Firefox OS devices -- they're actually making pretty decent use of the hardware (the battery life is good, even), but it's saddled with very low-end components. Mozilla is at least smart enough to target FFOS devices at specific developing markets, where even the starter Android phones are more expensive.
 
It's amazing to me that you guys go on about Firefox OS and Tizen yet give NO mention of QNX on BB10.

It's seriously better than both of those OS's, as good as iOS(version 7 anyhow) and besides the phenomenal Google integration a smoother OS than Android. (IMO)

It's too bad that BB has put themselves into irrelevancy, because they have a SERIOUSLY good OS and decent devices.
 
Skripka said:
Further considering how shitty Samsung's own bloatware apps are to start with...
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im with you on the bloatware crap, 100% hers a cool factoid on bloatware from samsung phones, if you buy a 16gb version of a galaxy s4 you get only about 8.5gb of usable storage. that sums it up how f'ed up samsung really is
 
QwertyJuan said:
It's amazing to me that you guys go on about Firefox OS and Tizen yet give NO mention of QNX on BB10.

It's seriously better than both of those OS's, as good as iOS(version 7 anyhow) and besides the phenomenal Google integration a smoother OS than Android. (IMO)

It's too bad that BB has put themselves into irrelevancy, because they have a SERIOUSLY good OS and decent devices.
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its BB's own fault that they are sitting where they are. back in the mid 2000's they had basically the smarthphone industry in the palm of there hands but forgot to close it. they just kicked back and relaxed while the customers went to apple in 07 when iphone the first iphone came out. and then they decided "screw it there going to be the ones crawling back" and sat longer. now there playing catch up.
Maybe if that wasnt the case and they hadnt stopped innovating we'd be comparing android/ios/firefox/ubuntu phone os to you beloved BB os or whatever its called these days.
 
QwertyJuan said:
It's amazing to me that you guys go on about Firefox OS and Tizen yet give NO mention of QNX on BB10.

It's seriously better than both of those OS's, as good as iOS(version 7 anyhow) and besides the phenomenal Google integration a smoother OS than Android. (IMO)

It's too bad that BB has put themselves into irrelevancy, because they have a SERIOUSLY good OS and decent devices.
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Why do we go on about iOS and Android? How many native apps exist for BB10? What does BB10 do that iOS and Android don't? I didn't even know BB10 integrated with Google services TBH.

BB10 have done a terrific job not selling their product and its features. Hell the last reviews I found talking about BB10 are 2013
 
I wish BB didn't fall to where they are at now, I liked their os the best.
 
Trimlock said:
I wish BB didn't fall to where they are at now, I liked their os the best.
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If it is true that BB can use android apps what do you care? You can buy a phone load android apps and have the OS you want.
 
rudy said:
If it is true that BB can use android apps what do you care? You can buy a phone load android apps and have the OS you want.
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Not all work, and most of the time the performance is not all that great either.

The Z30 is tempting enough as it but it was way too late, I'm not up rooting from my Note 3 just to get it. Although my next phone will not be Android. BB will be considered, but next round will more then likely go to either Apple or MS.
 
Well I guess that means an OS alone is not enough to sell a phone so then what is left is either the apps which was just dispelled or the hardware. So the real problem here is BB cant make a phone people want hardware wise.
 
rudy said:
Well I guess that means an OS alone is not enough to sell a phone so then what is left is either the apps which was just dispelled or the hardware. So the real problem here is BB cant make a phone people want hardware wise.
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That's kind of it, I don't care too much about apps personally but the Z30 is very anemic on the hardware front.

I'll look forward to their next iteration though.
 
I don't think they have the cash or power to do anything. IMO BB had a major problem it was they had a customer base and successful product base and deviating from it meant alienating those customers. Its sort of like how its been so hard for MS to move into mobile. When they tried to do something radically new like windows 8 and still keep windows 7 it created a mess. BB was known for the keyboard, and well the keyboard was too expensive in a easy cheap all touch screen world. Once they removed the keyboard it might have brought some customers back but alienated others. That's why new players like apple and google had it easier, their customers had no expectations. Easier customers to please. As for the app store as stated in other threads is was largely out of their control carriers let apple have a huge unfair advantage that would become impossible for most OS makers to overcome.

Without a boat load of cash BB can never secure a high end phone again. Its just game over unless they come up with a different business model.
 
Im going to stick with Android!!! I think it is a better OS with more flexibility
 
Skripka said:
Further considering how shitty Samsung's own bloatware apps are to start with...
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I totally agree. I had the Samsung S3 and it performed ok, but then I got the Note 2 and it is very sluggish. I work in IT so I get to configure the iphone 5s phones every day, and have an Ipad Air and Nexus 7 at home, as well as occasionally use my wife's Kindle Fire HDX 7". They all run circles around my Note 2. Yes I realize the Note 2 will be two years old this fall, but I hate using it due to the lag on it. It takes 2-3 seconds just for the screen to wake up when I press the Home button, sheesh.

For phones I am sticking with Android though. I wish Samsung with tone down TouchWiz a lot, make it a lot more like stock Android. I have already decided my next phone will either be an HTC, LG, or possibly Nexus phone.

I see LG as really being the first Android player that has a chance of taking a lot of Samsung's business. They are really putting out some good phones and tablets and are marketing them. Plus, despite so many people using Samsung phones/tablets right now, they will become bored with Samsung eventually, I believe.
 
Samsung Experience. There already there :rolleyes:

gsmarena_001.jpg


What makes them very un-Apple, is having such fractured product segments. They have WAY too many different product lines.
 
The benefit of Samsung going with their own OS is control and consistency across devices.

How many variations of Android does Google have?

How slow can Google be to get new versions out across all platforms, phones, tablets et cetera.

Samsung doing their own OS means one unified universal OS for all devices, phones, tablets, TV's et cetera and possibly faster support and updates.

Google is too fragmented with Android.

Lunas said:
Honestly i think it is samsung who cant afford to loose google's android as a platform blackberry was destroyed by apple/android apple is being destroyed by android windows never even entered into competition...

Tizen is going to be more like web os
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Windows phone is huge and often 2nd place next to Android outside of North America.
 
MrGuvernment said:
The benefit of Samsung going with their own OS is control and consistency across devices.

How many variations of Android does Google have?

How slow can Google be to get new versions out across all platforms, phones, tablets et cetera.

Samsung doing their own OS means one unified universal OS for all devices, phones, tablets, TV's et cetera and possibly faster support and updates.

Google is too fragmented with Android.
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Google seems to be reining things in with UI requirements for AndroidOne, Auto, Wear and TV. I'd also say KitKat (and eventually, the L release) is going some distance toward getting everyone on the same page by widening the hardware that can use it.

Having said this, I don't think OS fragmentation is what's driving Samsung to use Tizen. It's that the company has realized too late that the Apple model of in-house development is ultimately better for a company's long-term fortunes. If you chain yourself to another company's products, you risk collapsing if your partner either stumbles or purposefully betrays you.

For instance, see all the companies that made themselves slaves to Adobe because they were convinced that Flash support would be the key to beating the iPhone: BlackBerry, Google, Palm. Well, mobile Flash sucked -- it not only didn't save BlackBerry or Palm, it may have dragged them down (since they didn't have much else to go on). Even Adobe had to reluctantly admit that Apple was right and that HTML5 was the real standard to follow.

As it stands, Samsung is learning this lesson the hard way. You can practically hear the company bristling at having to use a stock interface on the Gear Live, shut down its own media stores and put that "powered by Android" logo on its boot screen. And yet it's probably too late to reverse course; how do you get people to switch to Tizen when Android (and for that matter, iOS and Windows Phone) does everything just as well, or better? Samsung had better pray that Google doesn't mess up Android, because that could threaten the Korean company's very survival.
 
Well, one area where Samsung isn't like Apple: taking significant hits to profits.

In a sense, it's facing the same problem that Windows PC builders have faced in the past few years. When a hardware company doesn't control its main platform, it primarily has to compete on price -- and a budget-oriented phone or tablet maker in China or India will have an easy time beating Samsung on that front. The only way to win that game is not to play.

In a sense, Samsung is a victim of its core strategy. It's trying to cater to absolutely everyone, but that also means that it's involved in markets where it's virtually guaranteed to lose share over time. That doesn't mean it will have to get out of those categories altogether, but the company will have to toss aside the notion that it will always do well in every field it enters. It may have to be content with only succeeding at the higher end of the mobile space.
 
Aurelius said:
Well, one area where Samsung isn't like Apple: taking significant hits to profits.

In a sense, it's facing the same problem that Windows PC builders have faced in the past few years. When a hardware company doesn't control its main platform, it primarily has to compete on price -- and a budget-oriented phone or tablet maker in China or India will have an easy time beating Samsung on that front. The only way to win that game is not to play.

In a sense, Samsung is a victim of its core strategy. It's trying to cater to absolutely everyone, but that also means that it's involved in markets where it's virtually guaranteed to lose share over time. That doesn't mean it will have to get out of those categories altogether, but the company will have to toss aside the notion that it will always do well in every field it enters. It may have to be content with only succeeding at the higher end of the mobile space.
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Great!! The LAST thing we need is someone controlling the entire smartphone market. With no competition, all we have to show for it is inflated pricing and less updates. GO HUMANS GO!! :D
 
Samsung's announcement is more a reflection of the whole mobile industry that is saturated plus the fact that they future proof their products so well that there's less incentive to upgrade. As an example, I still use a 2012 Note II while two years later the competition like Apple is still playing catch up with display size, DRAM, split screen multitasking, etc. and it still won't have a precision pen.

Samsung could've taken the Apple approach with focus on maximum profit by selling overpriced mediocre junk but as a consumer I'm proud giving them less of my money for a better product than the competition so screw their excessive profits.

Plus, Apple was in a similar predicament with their last earnings having seen a drop in iPad and iPod sales and flat lining of Mac sales. Next earnings announcement they're going to be in worse shape being late to market with a bigger iPhone and they know this too hence the reverse split gimmick with their stock to make it appear cheap.
 
mi7chy said:
Samsung's announcement is more a reflection of the whole mobile industry that is saturated plus the fact that they future proof their products so well that there's less incentive to upgrade. As an example, I still use a 2012 Note II while two years later the competition like Apple is still playing catch up with display size, DRAM, split screen multitasking, etc. and it still won't have a precision pen.
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Samsung is vulnerable in a way Apple isn't -- because it participates in low-end phones, it risks making hardware that won't sell. I do think it helped itself by touting big screens for a while, but the problem with the Bigger Numbers Are Always Better strategy is that you eventually can't lean on it. Human hands are only so big, so you'll eventually have to stop and let the competition catch up; having more RAM helps, but not if you offset it with wasteful software (see: TouchWiz).

And I hate to break it to you, but most people don't want pens. The Note series sells in far lower numbers than the Galaxy S line, and it's safe to say that a sizeable chunk of that group (even if it's a minority) doesn't even touch the pen. Styluses are nice for the people who want them, but it's not an automatic advantage -- to abuse car analogies, that's like saying a minivan is better than a sports car because it has more seats. It's better for some people, but the majority of people who don't need that feature will never, ever care that it's missing.

Plus, Apple was in a similar predicament with their last earnings having seen a drop in iPad and iPod sales and flat lining of Mac sales. Next earnings announcement they're going to be in worse shape being late to market with a bigger iPhone and they know this too hence the reverse split gimmick with their stock to make it appear cheap.
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As usual, you're purposefully omitting context, lying and making bad assumptions. The iPod was on its way out already, and Apple has been very public about intentionally letting it decline -- it's a category that had its day, but is largely replaced by smartphone and tablet sales. Ask Samsung how the Galaxy Player is taking the market by storm (or rather, isn't at all).

The iPad is a tougher call. The tablet market as a whole slowed down, but Apple claimed that last year's shipments (where it was understocked on iPad minis with Retina displays until Q1) made this year's healthy supply look worse than it was. Is that covering? Possibly, but it shows that shipments don't always tell the full story. See the evidence from the Apple-Samsung trial, where Samsung's internal reports showed that most of its Galaxy Tab stock was going unsold.
 
Aurelius said:
Samsung is vulnerable in a way Apple isn't -- because it participates in low-end phones, it risks making hardware that won't sell. I do think it helped itself by touting big screens for a while, but the problem with the Bigger Numbers Are Always Better strategy is that you eventually can't lean on it. Human hands are only so big, so you'll eventually have to stop and let the competition catch up; having more RAM helps, but not if you offset it with wasteful software (see: TouchWiz).

And I hate to break it to you, but most people don't want pens. The Note series sells in far lower numbers than the Galaxy S line, and it's safe to say that a sizeable chunk of that group (even if it's a minority) doesn't even touch the pen. Styluses are nice for the people who want them, but it's not an automatic advantage -- to abuse car analogies, that's like saying a minivan is better than a sports car because it has more seats. It's better for some people, but the majority of people who don't need that feature will never, ever care that it's missing.



As usual, you're purposefully omitting context, lying and making bad assumptions. The iPod was on its way out already, and Apple has been very public about intentionally letting it decline -- it's a category that had its day, but is largely replaced by smartphone and tablet sales. Ask Samsung how the Galaxy Player is taking the market by storm (or rather, isn't at all).

The iPad is a tougher call. The tablet market as a whole slowed down, but Apple claimed that last year's shipments (where it was understocked on iPad minis with Retina displays until Q1) made this year's healthy supply look worse than it was. Is that covering? Possibly, but it shows that shipments don't always tell the full story. See the evidence from the Apple-Samsung trial, where Samsung's internal reports showed that most of its Galaxy Tab stock was going unsold.
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One of the most ridiculous kick-ass posts I've read all year. You just stuffed all that bullshit back into his mouth, which he'll probably vomit more later on. THANK YOU, Aurelius!
 
Try to be more subtle about it...

t and inappropriate image - magnetik



Aurelius said:
Samsung is vulnerable in a way Apple isn't -- because it participates in low-end phones, it risks making hardware that won't sell.

Human hands are only so big, so you'll eventually have to stop and let the competition catch up; having more RAM helps, but not if you offset it with wasteful software (see: TouchWiz).

And I hate to break it to you, but most people don't want pens.
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Everything is relative. Apple's high end with less than 720p resolution, tiny narrow 4", 1GB DRAM, etc. is the whole industry's low end.

You need mutated gorilla hand to hold an iPad Mini so even the ginormous iPhone 6 will be fine.

Pretty much the whole professional industry is switching to pen hence the Note series, Surface Pro series, etc. are replacing Macbooks and iPads. Without pen it's just a reader and not a notepad replacement so it's not a smart device but more like a dumb device.
 
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Wow, stooping to a new low, mi7chy. Can't wait until you argue with intelligence, maturity and evidence, like an adult. You do realize you're only proving the points your critics make, right?

And a basic point of logic to shoot you down: simply making a product doesn't mean that it dominates. As of last fall, Samsung had sold 38 million Galaxy Notes since the series began two years earlier; in other words, that's just under 1.6 million Notes per month. As of this February, the company had sold 200 million Galaxy S phones in three years and eight months. That's over 4.5 million per month. Even if you toss out all the Galaxy S data from before the Note series arrived (the majority of Galaxy S sales were from 2012 on, so it won't make a big difference), that still means that most of Samsung's audience alone is fine without a giant screen or pen input. Add the rest of the smartphone industry and the Note is a small blip on a much larger radar screen. A good blip, but a small one.
 
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Try to be a man and keep emotions out of the discussion.

Nothing wrong for Samsung to have options on the high, mid and low end versus Apple only catering to the low end. Apple's stance is if you want a high end device with SAMOLED, plenty of DRAM for multitasking so your apps and browser tabs don't prematurely close and precision pen then tough luck go buy a Galaxy Note. Apple only sells low end at a high price to focus on high profit that you like to brag about.

Even if Apple wanted higher tech for their devices they're Samsung's biatch since Samsung provides the display, flash memory, DRAM, SoC fab, etc. Apple leaving Samsung fab out of spite for TSMC? Samsung will have 14nm by the time TSMC gets 16nm.
 
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