Is NEC going to release a P242W model?

H

_HU_

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Hello,

Now I'm using an ASUS PA248Q LED backlit monitor but I cannot getting used to the cool white point. I was used to the warmer white point of my old (and already broken) 2490WUXi (and I don't want to buy a refurbished one). My guess is NEC is probably going to release a next iteration for the P241W and I'm pretty sure it will have a LED backlight like the current P232W.

Assuming that the 'P242W' could have the same features as the P232W (but with 24.1" size and 16:10 AR), I will compare P232W vs. P241W:

P232W:
+ Excellent contrast and black depth
+ Medium input lag (~20ms according to TFTCentral)
+ Low power consumption
+ AH-IPS panel
+ Light AG coating
- Cooler white point than CCFL backlighting?
- Possible PWM flicker issues

P241W:
- Average contrast and good black depth
- Relatively high input lag (40ms according to TFTCentral)
- High power consumption (between 40-60W)
- e-IPS panel
- 3H AG coating
+ Warm white point
+ No PWM flicker issues

I have a 30 day trial period for the PA248Q and I really want to exchange it with a monitor with a warmer white point, but with a 16:10 aspect ratio. Also I'm continuously adjusting the brightness of the PA248Q depending on the ambient light. My preference is the P241W with a moderate price tag and good features, including the AmbiBright sensor for automatic brightness adjustment.

What do you think? Should I buy the P241W now or wait for a hypothetic 'P242W'? It's worth noting that I cannot notice any flicker on the current PA248Q, even at very low brightness levels, so my guess is I shouldn't notice it on the next iteration of the P241W either.

Thanks

PS: Monitor Guy, are you there?
 
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i don't believe they are intending to release a P242W or anything like that. TFTCentral talk about it in their review. The P232W was designed to replace the PA231W monitor, but in the 24" sector they already have the P241W (standard gamut) and the PA241W (wide gamut). there is now the P series for standard gamut in 23" and 24" sizes, and PA series for wide gamut in 24", 27" and 30" sizes.
 
Ok, thanks for your reply. So do you recommend me the P241W as an all-rounder monitor? Is it similar to the 2490?

I miss a lot my 2490 (it will not come back for sure). I need a monitor with a light sensor, IPS panel, good contrast and black depth and of course good uniformity (I'm quite a bit picky). I'm not going to use it for professional photographic use, but for general production, web design, programming and also I'd like to edit photos and design vector graphics (the latter as a hobby only).

The fact is I'm not comfortable now adjusting the brightness of my PA248Q all the time. The PA248Q has a superb and razor-sharp image, yes, but it's not comfortable for me and I think even it's not healthy for 8-10h of usage per day.

Do you have any other suggestion?
 
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_HU_ said:
Ok, thanks for your reply. So do you recommend me the P241W as an all-rounder monitor? Is it similar to the 2490?
Click to expand...

Yes. I have the 2490 and my sister bought the PA a little while back.

If you were happy with the 2490 I can assure you that you'll also be at least equally happy with the PA24. :)
 
I think I'm on the verge of ordering a P241W at this moment. I've tried a 2nd PA248Q replacement and this is much worse than the first one: a lot of tinting on the left side (the left is pretty yellowish and the right is semi-blueish), plus 1 red stuck pixel, not to mention the backlight bleed. In addition, the monitor cannot work in 1600x1200@60Hz!! It shows the following message error: "Out of range" and a black screen, of course. This is enough for me to give up the PA248Q!!!

A last question, regarding the color gamut of the P241W:
TFTCentral CIE diagrams show a sRGB coverage of almost all the sRGB color spectrum (96,7% according to official specs). However, Overclockers.ru claims the coverage is lower:

On full mode: 92.4% LINK to the 3D diagram
On high bright mode: 92.1% LINK to the 3D diagram
On sRGB mode: ONLY 90.7%! LINK to the 3D diagram

Who is right?

How do you compare the P241W gamut vs. the old 2490 gamut?

Please, I need feedback because I'm going to spend a lot of money on the P241W. I know contrast on the P241W is lower than contrast on the ASUS, but no monitor is perfect, oh well.

Many thanks in advance :)
 
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_HU_ said:
A last question, regarding the color gamut of the P241W:
TFTCentral CIE diagrams show a sRGB coverage of almost all the sRGB color spectrum (96,7% according to official specs). However, Overclockers.ru claims the coverage is lower:

On full mode: 92.4% LINK to the 3D diagram
On high bright mode: 92.1% LINK to the 3D diagram
On sRGB mode: ONLY 90.7%! LINK to the 3D diagram

How do you compare the P241W gamut vs. the old 2490 gamut?
Click to expand...

The P241W and LCD2490WUXi2 have identical gamut coverage for sRGB. I'm not sure what is causing the overclockers.ru coverage variation.

-- Art
 
Probably just limitations or differences with the measuring tool / software combo
 
Thank you for your replies. Yesterday I ordered a P241W from Amazon, it arrives tomorrow, we will see.

@ArtMarshall: Where is Mr. W. Hollingworth aka Monitor Guy in these forums? Do you know something about him? This gentleman helped me a lot with quality issues of my old (and broken) 2490WUXi. He convinced NEC Ibérica (Spain) to have my 2490WUXi replaced due to the infamous 'waves issue' on the left of the screen when viewing a grey background. I could not convince them, but he could. AFAIK, this issue only was present on european versions of the 2490. I'm very grateful to him.

Thank you to all of you for the feedback! :)
 
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Well, I already have the P241W. The monitor is very good at a glance. No tinting is noticeable. The backlight bleed is almost ZERO, yes, non-existent!! :) (at least to the naked eye). Colors are very natural out-of-the-box in the high bright mode (I need to tweak the settings, of course). I'm also happy because the IPS glow is MINIMAL!!! Hooray! There is no need of an A-TW polarizer in my opinion. I have to say the bleed (virtually non-existent) is much worse on my old 2490 (with the A-TW pol. BTW).

@ArtMarshall:
There is only a little flaw: the bottom of the screen is dimmer than the top. Is this normal, Art? I've enabled ColorComp at level 5 and there is a certain improvement, but at the cost of the contrast ratio and the screen is still unevenly illuminated (only from bottom to top, horizontally brightness distribution is very good).. Do you think the illumination distribution may improve overtime (with the use)?

Hands down NEC and CCFL technology!! I don't want a LED monitor any more!! They're crap, so please Art, take note of this and keep the CCFL technology at least a few years more!

Thanks. I'm happy (but please, reply to the question regarding illumination) :)
 
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_HU_ said:
There is only a little flaw: the bottom of the screen is dimmer than the top. Is this normal, Art? I've enabled ColorComp at level 5 and there is a certain improvement, but at the cost of the contrast ratio and the screen is still unevenly illuminated (only from bottom to top, horizontally brightness distribution is very good).. Do you think the illumination distribution may improve overtime (with the use)?
Click to expand...

You'll definitely want ColorComp on if you notice the difference. How much it will remain will depend on how bright you're using the display at. There's quite a large range where it doesn't really affect your contrast ratio, just your maximum brightness.

With that said, let it settle out for a while and see if it improves.

Hope this helps and glad to hear that you like it so far! Have you tried MultiProfiler yet?

-- Art
 
Hello, Art,

Thanks for your fast reply. The uneven brightness is only noticeable when is set at a pleasing level (110-250 cd/m2). If I go further, then the issue is more and more subtle. It's worth noting that this 'uneveness' is barely detectable in other modes, like Full or sRGB. ColorComp set at level 5 mitigates the problem, but not completely. So it's strange, isn't it? I suspect the high bright mode is a bit uncalibrated at factory.

I just wanted to ask this question in order to know if the monitor has a problem or not. I see this is normal. Remember I have a 30 day trial period from Amazon, if there is an issue they will replace it for me at no cost. Anyway, the monitor needs a burn-in period, right?

And yes, I'm very happy with it :) :) Image on LED monitors are blueish and somewhat vibrant, not natural as I like. Not to mention the eye strain LED monitors provoke to the user (LED technology is promising, but it's NOT mature at this moment, in my opinion).

There's quite a large range where it doesn't really affect your contrast ratio, just your maximum brightness.
Click to expand...
What is the range? I have brightness set at 130cd/m2, a pleasant level for my eyes.

Thank you very much indeed, much appreciated :)
 
i am also looking to get the p241w. What im unsure about is whether the spectraview software and hardware calibration will work with my spyder4elite?
 
trymeifudare said:
i am also looking to get the p241w. What im unsure about is whether the spectraview software and hardware calibration will work with my spyder4elite?
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It should. If you're an european user, just make sure you download the american version of the SpectraView II software in order to calibrate the screen with the hardware LUT if you don't buy the SpectraView version of the P241W. If you're on the USA, it's likely the normal version does not have the hardware calibration locked by the firmware and you'll be able to use both SpectraView Profiler and SpectraView II.

You're fine with the non-SV version, since it cannot have dead/stuck pixels (Pixel Failure Class I compliant) nor backlight bleed (mine has ZERO) and is a lot cheaper (at least on Europe, I'm not sure in the USA).

I highly recommend you this screen. Don't buy a LED monitor for now, until the technology is mature. I've tried a HP ZR2440w and an ASUS PA248Q, both with LED backlighting and very high contrast. The image on these is so vibrant that I could not bear them more than a week, not to mention the quality issues on both. Also color temperature is more blueish than with CCFL backlighting. With CCFL on the P241W you get a natural and warm image (not 'punchy'), very natural colors even without calibration and ZERO backlight bleed. The minus is the P241W has slightly lower contrast than the mentioned models.

My only concern with the P241W is the brightness distribution, because the distribution on the ASUS was stellar and on the P241W is so-so, but Art is here to help us :) However, you can correct it with ColorComp enabled, but for me it's not clear how much contrast is lost with this on.

Keep in mind I've had the 'legendary' 2490WUXi (now broken, sigh :( ), so image quality is the FIRST for me (and I'm not a professional, just a regular user). The P241W matches or even exceeds the quality of the 2490 (save for the A-TW polarizer, but you're not going to see the screen with a black background from an extreme angle).

PS: I've changed the subject of my first post to show we're talking about the P241W too, but I cannot change it in the thread. If a moderator can do this, it would be appreciated.
 
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I highly recommend you this screen. Don't buy a LED monitor for now, until the technology is mature.
Click to expand...
CCFL based backlights will disappear quite soon. LG has just introduced a new GB-r LED blu for some AH-IPS panels. It allows for virtually the same color gamut than screens with WCG-CCFL (their last extensive appearance) and is cheaper than full array RGB-LED backlights (quite rare). The panelfilters can remain unchanged.

Also color temperature is more blueish than with CCFL backlighting.
Click to expand...
The native whitepoint changes according to the blu but adjustments are quite unproblematic – important is only the resulting color stimulus – and not that much larger even with a W-LED blu. Important: When calibrating screens emitting different spectra in a multi display setup the whitepoint target has to be adapted – instead of seeking a colorimetric match – to achieve visually identical neutral tones across all screens.
 
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_HU_ said:
What is the range? I have brightness set at 130cd/m2, a pleasant level for my eyes.
Click to expand...

The range varies per monitor. You can tell when you've used the OSD to set the brightness to a level that is too low and affects the contrast: the OSD digits turn magenta. You can also see the warning in MultiProfiler as well.

But your display seems to be performing normally. If you have access to a colorimeter you could measure the difference in brightness and see if there's really something there.

Let me know how it goes!

-- Art
 
Hi Art,

Currently I have the following settings:

Color mode: High Bright
Brightness: 130cd/m2
Contrast: AUTO (I cannot change it)
White Point: 6500K
Uniformity: 3

It seems my eyes are getting used to the uniformity of the screen with these settings. Do you think I'm loosing contrast with Uniformity (aka ColorComp) set at level 3? (max is 5)

Thanks
 
if you can clearly see uniformity issues even at colorcomp 5, exchange your unit for another one. tftcentral's p241w had a contrast ratio of ~800:1 with colorcomp off and it dropped down to ~580:1 at colorcomp 5.
 
Sailor_Moon said:
CCFL based backlights will disappear quite soon.
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm aware of that. Unfortunately, CCFL is condemned to disappear due to power consumption and environmental reasons. However, I still think i'ts the best technology for backlighting so far, including the RGB-LED technology, because I have a DreamColor screen (RGB-LED Edge, 10-bit color) in my HP EliteBook 8740w notebook and I notice some tinting (I have replaced it 3 times with the same result).

The native whitepoint changes according to the blu but adjustments are quite unproblematic – important is only the resulting color stimulus – and not that much larger even with a W-LED blu.
Click to expand...
Well, I've had 2 good W-LED monitors (despite of the quality issues): a HP ZR2440w (rated 'very good' at PRAD) and an ASUS PA248Q. I could not adjust both monitors for a warmer image. On the HP I changed the RGB settings, brightness and contrast. On the ASUS, I adjusted the RGB offset and gain (I didn't change the 6-color controls though), without success. The feeling was not the same as with a CCFL monitor.

With this NEC, you turn on it and notice a natural image, not yellowish nor blueish, not excessively strong. Without any adjustment I got a very neutral white. In addition, W-LED monitors have a strong image hardly bearable for my eyes. It's worth noting that I've not suffered any PWM flicker with them, save for once with the HP, but disappeared quickly.

This is my experience and my 2 cents, of course.

Denis, are you going to review the P241W at PRAD? You already have reviewed the PA241W, but I think it would be interesting for many readers, as the P241W is a standard gamut monitor and cheaper than the very expensive PA241W.
 
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livefastdieyoung said:
if you can clearly see uniformity issues even at colorcomp 5, exchange your unit for another one. tftcentral's p241w had a contrast ratio of ~800:1 with colorcomp off and it dropped down to ~580:1 at colorcomp 5.
Click to expand...
Yes, I see some differences even with level 5, but only on the High Bright mode (it's strange). On other modes differences are negligible.

Finally, I've ordered a replacement from Amazon. Sadly, I've discovered a little smudge on the bottom right side of the screen. It's hardly noticeable, but it's there. You must turn on the monitor, wait for 30 min. and watch carefully the screen on a white background in order to notice it. This monitor belongs to Pixel Failure Class I, and no defect is allowed. Apart from these issues, the monitor is OUTSTANDING, better than my old 2490WUXi. And zero backlight bleed is a plus :)
 
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@ArtMarshall:

Do you know the (approximate) input lag of this monitor? TFTCentral claims it's about 40ms, but that measure is not accurate at all. I don't game usually, and I'm not a fan of FPS games either, I'd rather occasionally graphic adventures. Hence, input lag is not a problem for me, but I'd like to know the IL of this screen (if you have this information).

It's worth noting the pixel responsiveness is exemplary according to TFT Central, at the same level of a fast TN :)

On the other hand, the replacement arrives on friday. We'll see :rolleyes:

And thank you very much for your support! :)
 
We spec the P241W at 8ms response time (that gray to gray with response improve on).

Hopefully this replacement works for you!

-- Art
 
_HU_ said:
@ArtMarshall:
Do you know the (approximate) input lag of this monitor? TFTCentral claims it's about 40ms, but that measure is not accurate at all.
Click to expand...

pretty much all of nec's high end monitors have at least 1-2 frames of input lag.
 
livefastdieyoung said:
pretty much all of nec's high end monitors have at least 1-2 frames of input lag.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I supposed that, so the P241W should be on par with the 2490WUXi (my old monitor). Not a problem for me :)

@ArtMarshall:
As I'm waiting for the replacement, I'm messing a bit with the MultiProfiler software. It's a great tool to adjust the monitor quickly without navigating through the OSD menus and submenus (a bit boring and slow process). And it's very useful to create quick profiles for every task, for example for day and night. I think NEC has made a big step up comparing it to the old NaviSet software (included with the 2490 and also still included with MultiProfiler).

I have a question for you regarding MP: Why does the sRGB gamut is within the limits of the monitor gamut if this display is specced with a 96,7% sRGB coverage and not 100%? In fact, the native gamut exceeds the color space of sRGB (at least I notice this visually on the CIE diagram).

Thank you again for your unvaluable support. You saved me some phone calls to NEC Spain support :D And I'm pretty sure I'll be even more happy with the replacement (I'm still happy even with the commented flaws!) :)
 
_HU_ said:
Why does the sRGB gamut is within the limits of the monitor gamut if this display is specced with a 96,7% sRGB coverage and not 100%? In fact, the native gamut exceeds the color space of sRGB (at least I notice this visually on the CIE diagram).
Click to expand...

a monitor's native gamut can be larger than srgb, but intersect with it in such a way that srgb coverage isn't 100%. so there would be srgb colors that the monitor can't reproduce, but the monitor can reproduce an even greater number of colors outside of the srgb color space.

96.7% srgb coverage really isn't bad, the 2490wuxi only has about 95% coverage.
 
livefastdieyoung said:
a monitor's native gamut can be larger than srgb, but intersect with it in such a way that srgb coverage isn't 100%. so there would be srgb colors that the monitor can't reproduce, but the monitor can reproduce an even greater number of colors outside of the srgb color space.
Click to expand...
Thank you again, now I understand the diagram...

96.7% srgb coverage really isn't bad, the 2490wuxi only has about 95% coverage.
Click to expand...
It certainly is not. I'm a programmer and amateur web designer, so even the coverage of the 2490 (93,5% according to an official response from a NEC rep in this forum) was more than enough for me. I was just curious about that.
 
Is there anyone with a P241W besides me? I'm starting to notice a lot of grain on light grey backgrounds (less on white ones). I know this screen uses the standard matte AG coating, but I think it's too aggressive. I never had this problem with my old 2490 and its AG coating, not even with the PA248Q nor ZR2440w.
 
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I have a PA231W and used to have a 2490WUXI2. They both have identical AG, so I'd be surprised if the P241W would have different one from those two. I got the PA231W for way cheaper than the 2490WUXI2 so I didn't expect it to be as good, but it in fact turned out to be better.

Gamut, contrast, uniformity and response time (thanks to tweaked overdrive) were all noticably better than the 2490WUXI2 so that definitely made me a fan of NEC displays. I hope they release more models with more modest AG because that's the only thing that kills their screens for me.
 
The original 2490 seems to have a lighter coating than revision 2, and the typical heavy-AG IPS screens. So that may be the difference you are seeing.
 
Red hues are kind of weak in W-LEDs, yes. Hopefully they'll fix that in the future.

GB-r LED might be the answer whatever that is? If its a red LED and blue + green phosphorus-layer then it might solve that issue.
 
GB-r LED might be the answer whatever that is? If its a red LED and blue + green phosphorus-layer then it might solve that issue.
Click to expand...
It consists of green and blue LEDs. The red spectral components are most likely emitted by "white" LEDs with accordant coating. Color space is comparable to screens with WCG-CCFL blu (panel filters have not to be improved). One big advantage compared to a pure RGB-LED blu is the higher light yield which allows for a side emitting configuration.
 
Well, now I'm using the replacement of the original P241W. I must say it has a much better uniformity. Without ColorComp, only the right side is slightly deviated from the rest (perhaps it's warmer), so the uniformity is top-notch. Unfortunately, it has a dead pixel on the right side. This screen is Pixel Failure Class I compliant, so no defective pixels are allowed. Moreover, the coating is driving me nuts. It's more aggressive than the coating of my old 2490v1, no doubt.

I'm seriously thinking of a P232W. I can accept the 16:9 aspect ratio and even a LED backlighting if is well implemented (no uniformity issues, warm white point, natural colors, low backlight bleed, I'm not affected by the PWM flicker though). My question is how many centimeters will lost if I go that route (comparing it with my current P241W with 24.1" size and 16:10 AR)? The plus for me is that the P232W has a lighter AG coating (according to TFT Central). If not many centimeters are lost, I'm sold with that model. I'd like to continue with NEC rather than buying an Eizo, for example, although the new EV2436WFS has positive reviews on the net (it's rated 'very good' on PRAD, the review will be released on December 3).

And a question for ArtMarshall: The P232W is out of stock on nearly every online shop on the Internet. Is this model in back order? Do you know when will the P232W be again available in Europe?

Thank you for all of your replies, much appreciated.
 
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@_HU_

I use this site when comparing ratios and screen sizes:
http://www.displaywars.com

Going from 24" 16:10 to 23" 16:9 will lose you a decent amount of vertical, about an inch and a half or so. Horizontally they will be close, however. It'll end up being less vertical than a 19" 5:4 screen has.

And the new Eizo 24"er does look interesting. It's PWM free, I believe, but may be 6-bit +FRC? And for Eizo it's cheap, at $500ish US. No idea about its coating, however. Whenever I think about getting a monitor now, the coating is probably one of the most important things I consider... I can't stand heavy AG coating, it kills my eyes.
 
@Namelessme:

Wow, then I dismiss the P232W from my list of candidates, what a shame.

It makes me sad the AG coating of the P241W, because if it was a bit lighter (at the same level of my old 2490), then the P241W would be perfect for me. I do a lot of programming and this is not comfortable for text work.

Do NEC have any 24.1" IPS monitor (it have to be IPS, I'm used to it) with a lighter coating (similar to the 2490's)? I'm willing to spend more money if needed (if it's wide gamut with proper sRGB emulation). I think the PA241W has the same coating as the P241W so this is not a solution.

And the new Eizo 24"er does look interesting. It's PWM free,
Click to expand...
I don't think so. It uses a 'hybrid' solution to reduce eye strain (i.e. flicker) with very low brightness. This is good, but not entirely PWM-free.
I believe, but may be 6-bit +FRC?
Click to expand...
It may be true 8-bit, I saw this remark on a japanese website. Also an user of this forum claimed the same thing.

I'm satisfied with a coating similar to the included with the HP ZR2440w or the ASUS PA248Q. None of them caused me those unwanted effects.
 
Yeah, it's a hybrid solition... whatever that entails.

But I am not sure it can be calibrated on a hardware level (if that matters to you). And I see no mention of a LUT on its webpage. Typically most decent Eizos have at least a 10bit LUT. Info could be buried on its website and I just missed it.

And afraid I am not aware of any NEC IPS models with a lighter coating than the 2490 1st gen, besides maybe the 2190wuxi (which uses NEC's panel)... but they no longer are made and I expect not the size you want anyway.
 
Searching a bit on the EV2336W yields:
1336969_m.jpg


ev2336w-ti2.jpg


So by hybrid it means it'll do DC down to 20% and then it does PWM down to 0 cdm2. Generally that down to 0 is just icing on the cake since most displays dont dim to 0.
 
Interesting, CrabJuice. Regarding the EV2336WFS, I've read some forums and it seems this monitor has the smoothest coating available (without any sparkle effect).

The good news is, according to an user of the PRAD forum, there is a 24.1" 16:10 monitor with a similar coating: The Eizo ColorEdge CX240 includes the newest panel from LG.Display (with LED backlight). The bad news is that this is a very high end monitor with a very high price tag too: about 1200-1400 euro! I cannot afford that :(
 
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