Is NEC going to release a P242W model?

NCX

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Many users will say their U2711's or 24" 16:10 IPS aren't grainy, so be careful when basing your decision off of random forum users who don't provide a frame of reference. It's really easy to demonstrate the difference, I wish more review sites would. This is a bad picture, but one can clearly see that the Asus is more reflective than the Samsung.



Better example:

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums...23AH vs VG236H/cellpicsandvg23ahreview051.jpg
 
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_HU_

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Well, I need a quality 24.1" IPS/PLS monitor with an AG coating similar to the HP ZR2440w or the ASUS PA248Q. Does such thing exist?

Discarded models:
Samsung S24A850D (poor sRGB accuracy and backlight bleed issues)
HP ZR2440w (I'm not satisfied with the color rendition nor the backlight bleed/IPS Glow)
Asus PA248Q (the same as the previous)
Eizo CG246, CX240 (quite expensive, out of my price range)

Note I'm not asking for a semi-glossy display, just a display with a not quite heavy AG coating like my current P241W (although I'm satisfied with its color rendition, it's stellar). Hardware calibration is not needed at all. For me it would be ideal a monitor with the same coating of my old (and broken) 2490, but I know that this is dreaming.

Thanks
 
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my p241w has a big spike for color accuracy at 1F after calibration with spectraview ii. Is this normal or reason to replace?

 

Namelessme

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@_HU@

What sort of coating does the EV2436WFS have? Heavy IPS AG coating, or a lighter standard one? It could be one option for you if the latter.

Although I prefer NEC's menu system over Eizo's, if NEC doesn't make any 24.1" normal coated monitors, you are simply out of luck there.

One alternative is to go used, and just pick up a used 2490 1st gen, but that can be risky.

Maybe wait for Dell's 2413 (or whatever numbering system they plan to use) and hope it's a lighter coating?
 

Liggywuh

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Maybe wait for Dell's 2413 (or whatever numbering system they plan to use) and hope it's a lighter coating?
Will probably be wide gamut, if it is replacing the 2410, as the rumors say. In that case, it my float your boat, or be completely not what you are looking for :)
 

NCX

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The Samsung S24A850D is the only 24" confirmed to have light (semi-glossy coating). All other current 24" 16:10 IPS use the same coating, except for the Ezi EV2436 which is unknown

Just get a Dell U2713, Asus PB278Q, Samsung S27A850D or Viewsonic VP2770. Too many people [H]ere are stuck on having a 16:10 1200p display, 2560x1440 provides much more real-estate than 1200p and there are semi-glossy, glossy, glass and aggressive AG options. If you want a specific white point, buy a colorimeter.
 
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_HU_

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Namelessme said:
What sort of coating does the EV2436WFS have? Heavy IPS AG coating, or a lighter standard one? It could be one option for you if the latter.
It has a hard coating too, but I've read in the PRAD forums that it's bearable (a little less than the HP ZR2440w and the Dell U2412, but it's enough for me).
Also, I've read in the same forum it has a 6bit+AFRC panel, so bad news for people expecting an 8-bit panel here (this is not an issue for me however).

Namelessme said:
Although I prefer NEC's menu system over Eizo's, if NEC doesn't make any 24.1" normal coated monitors, you are simply out of luck there.
Me too. The NEC is fabulous, the color rendition is outstanding, it has zero backlight bleed, very little IPS glow and you can program the LUT by loading the ICC profile from disk in MultiProfiler via DVI (that's incredible, I've not seen this ever)... but at the end, I can't stand the AG coating, it's not comfortable for reading/writing text (my old 2490 was perfectly bearable in this regard). I still want to recommend this monitor to anyone who cares about color accuracy. It has a moderate price tag and is loaded with a lot of features (including the space emulation by loading the ICC profile). It's really a SHAME (with caps).

NCX said:
The Samsung S24A850D is the only 24" confirmed to have light (semi-glossy coating). All other current 24" 16:10 IPS use the same coating, except for the Ezi EV2436 which is unknown
I don't want a glossy or semiglossy display. For me, 3H hard coating is useful (no reflections) , I only need a bit lighter coating, that's all. The P241W has a very heavy coating.

I'm going to order the Eizo from Amazon Germany (it's not available in my country). I will post my first impressions about the coating here when it arrives.
 

Namelessme

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Does Samsung have any plans for a 24" PLS update? Or anyone else using that same panel?

Although I agree with NCX that upgrading to 27" may be worth it for some, it's not just being locked into 16:10 that causes people to wish to stick with the 24" models.

For myself, it's a mix of my hardware not being good enough to really make any use of a 1440p display (at least for any of the occasional games I play). And some of my software doesn't play nice with Windows DPI settings. Photoshop would result in tiny tiny text at 1440p... Daz 3D would also look microscopic. It's small enough as it is at 1200p. I probably have other software installed that I am forgetting about too. My eyes would fall out if the text got any smaller.

I'm not sure if the above reasons apply to the OP, or if he'd be fine with 27", perhaps even at 1080p... just stating that there are reasons why bigger isn't necessarily better for some people.
 

Namelessme

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One other option for the OP, which I forgot to mention earlier, if he's okay with a heavy-ish AG coating, but not super, super heavy, maybe the 2490 2nd gen would be acceptable?

I don't know, as I don't own that version, nor know how it compares to the original. It'll have a heavier coating than 1st gen, but not sure if it'll be as bad as the monitor you have now.They can still be bought new from NEC, I see, at $650 (quite expensive). And I have seen refurbs at $350, which is much more reasonable. It could be an option if the Eizo doesn't work out for you.
 

_HU_

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I'm not sure if the above reasons apply to the OP, or if he'd be fine with 27", perhaps even at 1080p... just stating that there are reasons why bigger isn't necessarily better for some people.
Yes, I don't want anything bigger than 25.5" (16:10, I had a 2690WUXi too), and I don't want a resolution bigger than 1920x1200. I have an old PC (AMD Athlon64 3500) with an old graphics card (NVIDIA 6600GT), so I think it's not worth a 2560x1440 monitor (my laptop is much better of course, with an i7 processor).

One other option for the OP, which I forgot to mention earlier, if he's okay with a heavy-ish AG coating, but not super, super heavy, maybe the 2490 2nd gen would be acceptable?
I don't think so. It seems the panel used on that model is a LM240WU7, the same as the P241W (I'm not sure about the revision though), so I expect a similar level of 'hardness'. On the contrary, an user from PRAD confirmed that the 'hardness' of the EV2436W panel is very similar to the U2412M. If this is true, Eizo hands down.

The user 'Sailor Moon' knows all the details and secrets about the EV2436W, I'm pretty sure, because they already have reviewed it, but he's a member of PRAD and I understand they don't want to disclose them until the review is published.

PS: If you want to stay tuned, read this thread on PRAD.
 
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Namelessme

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I assumed the NEC you were using now was about the same AG coating as a Dell 2412, not worse. I read last night in amazon review (german, I think) the Eizo being compared to a Dell 2412's coating too.

I could cross that one off my list of potential future monitors then. I found the 2412's AG coating horrible. I thought it had a protective coating that could be peeled off... it looked like it was covered in dust to me.

But everyone is different as to their tolerance/preferences regarding coatings.
 

_HU_

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@Namelessme:

I think the coating will be bearable because it's likely the EV2436W uses a recent panel. I've tested 2 LED-backlit monitors so far: HP ZR2440w and ASUS PA248Q. Both have coatings perfectly bearable, but I send them back due to the mentioned issues above.

I think I'm ready to order the EV2436W. Perhaps, I'm going to become the 1st forumite of [H] with this monitor :D Of course, questions will be welcome ;)
 

_HU_

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Finally, Eizo have confirmed the panel included in the EV2436W: It's a 6-bit+AFRC LG LM240WU8, but it uses a 10-bit LUT (a bit strange, perhaps). It's definite.
 

CrabJuice

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Finally, Eizo have confirmed the panel included in the EV2436W: It's a 6-bit+AFRC LG LM240WU8, but it uses a 10-bit LUT (a bit strange, perhaps). It's definite.
LG panel. Thats a surprise. Wonder if the EV2336W will have LG panel also. That would be a letdown. 23" LG panels are kind of subpar. PLS panel that Foris FS2333 uses would be better. There is that budget AD-PLS possibility also. Oh well.
 

_HU_

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LG panel. Thats a surprise. Wonder if the EV2336W will have LG panel also. That would be a letdown. 23" LG panels are kind of subpar. PLS panel that Foris FS2333 uses would be better. There is that budget AD-PLS possibility also. Oh well.
That cannot be a surprise since LG.Display is the only manufacturer who makes IPS panels for 3rd parties (remember the EV2436W is an IPS). On the other hand, the surprise is a 10-bit LUT instead of an 8-bit LUT (and this is good). The EV2336W is an IPS, so it's a LG panel too.
 

CrabJuice

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That cannot be a surprise since LG.Display is the only manufacturer who makes IPS panels for 3rd parties (remember the EV2436W is an IPS). On the other hand, the surprise is a 10-bit LUT instead of an 8-bit LUT (and this is good). The EV2336W is an IPS, so it's a LG panel too.
EV2335W, Foris FS2332 and FS2333 all have PLS but being marketed as 'IPS'. I'm sure Eizo picked the LG panel for good reasons, though. Backlight bleed problems of PLS panels in S24A850 might have been a factor. It still might be a PLS, however. Support personal have a tendency to say random things. Even at Eizo. They might have gave you the name of the panel in another monitor. Come monday we'll see better indications, when the Prad review comes up. You'll be able to tell from the measured characteristics.

I guess 10-bit LUT helps with stable gamma during calibration. Its all about balancing parameters and more accuracy helps one one end of the board.
 

_HU_

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EV2335W, Foris FS2332 and FS2333 all have PLS but being marketed as 'IPS'.
Where did you get that information? You are almost absolutely wrong. FS2332 and FS2333 both use an IPS panel (tested by PRAD). Only the EV2335W use a PLS panel (according to PRAD) and is marketed as IPS.
 

NCX

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CrabJuice is correct, the FS2332 uses a PLS panel. An [H] user opened his up a while back and confirm this as did Dennis from PRAD after the review was published.

They market PLS as IPS to avoid confusion.

Not sure about the FS2333, but there have been no reports of semi-glossy cross hatching like the U2713 (lol LG still can't get the coating right), so it likely uses a PLS panel. Extra Hardware CZ thinks it has an AH-IPS panel, but I think it is PLS. I can't see Eizo specifically getting the first 23" PLS panel (the FS2332) from Samsung only to switch back to IPS.
 
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CrabJuice

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Not sure about the FS2333, but there have been no reports of semi-glossy cross hatching like the U2713 (lol LG still can't get the coating right), so it likely uses a PLS panel. Extra Hardware CZ thinks it has an AH-IPS panel, but I think it is PLS. I can't see Eizo specifically getting the first 23" PLS panel (the FS2332) from Samsung only to switch back to IPS.
Another Czech site proved it to be PLS, Guy does macro photo-shots of pixel structure on every monitor he reviews:
http://www.svethardware.cz/art_doc-1278203DBEF6779EC1257A9A002093AB.html
Compare it to a 23" AH-IPS:
http://www.svethardware.cz/art_doc-1278203DBEF6779EC1257A9A002093AB.html
One can look up other PLS and AH-IPS reviews there and it'll be clear.

Well. I'm still not sure about the EV2436 though. Leaning toward newer (AH-IPS) 24" IPS panel. Prad review looks similar to review of PA248Q. Ie: Pretty good contrast and problems with slight dark blue dominance after calibration.
 

_HU_

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Well. I'm still not sure about the EV2436 though. Leaning toward newer (AH-IPS) 24" IPS panel. Prad review looks similar to review of PA248Q. Ie: Pretty good contrast and problems with slight dark blue dominance after calibration.
Prad's review of the EV2436W is not similar to the review of the PA248Q: The PA248Q got a 'satisfactory' rating because it has unacceptable linearity problems, making the calibration difficult due to this. At first, I didn't notice this at all, but when I adjusted the RGB gain, I did (I've had the PA248Q).

Also compare the dE diagrams after calibration and you'll see the EV2436W is better than the PA248Q. It's a shame the default settings are a bit deviated from the sRGB color space, because the monitor is spectacular for the price (I don't have it yet): good brightness distribution, superb image homogeinity, ultra deep black level (at the cost of contrast, it seems the white level is digitally changed to achieve this black point), good responsiveness and very low input lag. Moreover the PWM flicker is non-existent. Bad points also exist: external DVD playback and default color calibration (but the blue is not as bad as in the HP ZR2440w or the ASUS PA248Q). Regarding the panel, PRAD confirmed a LM240WU8 as mentioned above.

My only concern is the AG coating of this model. We'll see if the coating is better than the used in the P241W...
 
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_HU_

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I'm sorry for the late response, but I'm still testing the EV2436W. I'm going to reply in this thread because this subject is a bit off-topic for this one.
 
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did you ever try the samsung 24850dw? because ive followed your posts as ive been on the same path. I have tried the p241w and del 2412. The nec ag was awful, giving it a dirty screen look all the time. The 2412 had bad flicker. The 850dw has a nice ag, nicely balanced and the auto dimming works well. I see with the eizio you didnt like that feature. But on the samsung i just set the brighttest i want it in the brightest setting, then it will will just switch to half that figure if it goes totally dark and you have a bunch of other ways to set it if you want. My set monitor is june 2012 and doesnt have any noticeable blb to my eyes, only minor ips glow and no flicker at all. Even the nec had some flicker issues if you did the wavy hand test. The only thing i hate is the incredibly bad stand. I mean a stand that wont go below 5 inchs to desk level????
 
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ive calibrated and its 99% srgb coverage with just a problem in a narrow blue part of the spectrum where it spikes.
 

Namelessme

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@trymeifudare

What sort of IPS glow is on the samsung, purple or white? And how bad is it compared to most IPS panels? And what black level/contrast are you getting from it?

I've sort of been hoping Samsung would release an update to that model, fixing BLB. I wasn't aware of the stand issue with it, although think my current monitor is at about 4-5 inches from desk level, so it may be good enough there. I've read that contrast wasn't super great on it though (800ish)? Or maybe I am mis-remembering.

Samsung has priced it sort of oddly too. It's priced at the Dell 2410 range, yet is a 6-bit panel, so really should be closer to $300 or less. The semiglossy coating would be a major plus though.
 
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so far it has the best balance of features i am looking for bar the blue color spike, which is only noticeable in non colour manged applications. Calibrated to 120 cdm gamma 2.2 the black level is 0.24 and contrast 500-1. Not great but every monitor currently is a trade off. I wanted a monitor for srgb accuracy and this monitor gives a delta average around 0.2-0.3 at 99% srgb coverage. Biggest plus is its easy on the eye for text and has no flicker. The ips glow is just noticeable when you move angles and the blacks become cloudy, so white would be the answer. The light sensor works well, adjusting between sensible levels.
 

Namelessme

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so far it has the best balance of features i am looking for bar the blue color spike, which is only noticeable in non colour manged applications. Calibrated to 120 cdm gamma 2.2 the black level is 0.24 and contrast 500-1.
500:1? Are you sure that's calibrated right?

I expected it to be low, but not that low. I'm currently using an NEC 2490, and its weakness is contrast/blacks (in my opinion), but it sounds like that Samsung isn't much better there (actually worse). Shouldn't it be closer to 700-800:1?
 

_HU_

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did you ever try the samsung 24850dw?
No, I didn't. I'm still waiting a response from Eizo Support regarding the ambient light sensor.

Honestly, I don't dare to buy the SA24850DW because of the strong blue deviation. By the way, it uses a PLS panel, is not an IPS, so the thing you're seeing is 'PLS glow'.

Apart from the coating, I'm happy with the EV2436W (if the ambient light sensor is fixed I will be even more happy). The monitor is brilliant, now the little backlight bleed on the upper right corner is slowly disappearing (so I will have absolutely no bleed shortly, and I mean no bleed at 140cd/m2 brightness). In addition, PRAD calibrated this monitor with 939:1 contrast ratio, a very good mark for an IPS, with a max dE of 2.2 in blue. I'm going to buy a calibrator soon, probably an i1 Display Pro. I do not regret my purchase (the 7th monitor tested!). And if you have not realized yet, I'm an OCD perfectionist :)
 
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but didnt you say it had strong flicker below 20% brightness? I have mine at 120cdm, what level would that equate to on that monitor do you know?
so the ag on that is better than the p241 by a long way?
 
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btw the blue on mine peaks at 5. Pretty bad but everything else is under 1 and averages just over 0.2. Im tempted to try the ezio, shame amazon dont sell them in the UK.
 

_HU_

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but didnt you say it had strong flicker below 20% brightness? I have mine at 120cdm, what level would that equate to on that monitor do you know?
No, it's Folex the user who complained of the flicker starting at 17% brightness. I'm not affected at all. I'm using 2 presets: User1 with brightness at 32% (140cd/m2) for day and User2 with 10% (49cd/m2) for night.
so the ag on that is better than the p241 by a long way?
I would say it's similar if you watch it closely, but on normal use it does not bother as much as the coating of the P241W.
 

_HU_

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btw the blue on mine peaks at 5. Pretty bad but everything else is under 1 and averages just over 0.2. Im tempted to try the ezio, shame amazon dont sell them in the UK.
If you're european (like me, I'm spanish), you can buy it where I bought mine. Check out this. It's the same seller, but I bought the product from Amazon Marketplace. He does international shipping, ask him, he's a nice guy. Also he offers a 30 day trial period, you only need to pay the shipping costs for the return.

But if you're happy with the Samsung, there is no need to test a new monitor. I was on the same boat as you and I ended testing 7 monitors (this is the 7th). Although I must say the Eizo is the best of the 7 and is cheaper (200€ less) than the P241W. And as I've said before I'm an obsessive perfectionist.
 
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well if i can get better color accuracy and stand that lowers to desk level while the screen is easy on the eye then its worth a punt. Im happy with the 850d but its annoying having to look up more than i find comfortable. I like my monitors to be read like a book, slightly looking down on it and the screen slightly tilted up.
 
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with that stand it sits lower but it still wont go down flush with the desktop, its 2 inches above. Perhaps the way more expensive robotic/articulated arm thingy they do would go lower.
 
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