Become a Patron!

Is it Time to Reconsider Firefox?

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Steve, Dec 18, 2009.

  1. Steve

    Steve I do not work here any more

    Messages:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1969
    With Firefox having 44% of all reported browser vulnerabilities in the first half of the year, this guy wants to know if it is time to reconsider using Firefox.

     
  2. anthrex

    anthrex [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,864
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    The real questions are which browser is more likely to reveal browser vulnerabilities; and which has the largest, most knowledgeable and critically looking community that has access to the browsers code?
     
  3. modi123

    modi123 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,274
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Go Internet Explorer!
     
  4. WhiteZero

    WhiteZero 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,659
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    I think the key word here is "reported".
     
  5. Adeptus

    Adeptus n00bie

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    I have used firefox for 3 years now....time to move on.
     
  6. Azhar

    Azhar Fixing stupid since 1972

    Messages:
    19,502
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2001
    But Chrome lets Google peek into your lives and steal all your info!
     
  7. Sabrewulf165

    Sabrewulf165 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,070
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2004
    Another flamebait browser op-ed, sigh :rolleyes:
     
  8. novadude

    novadude [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,108
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2004
    Well Opera's just in an odd position where you still need to run IE or firefox for some sites, such as Gmail and ~10% of the other websites out there because they just don't work with Opera. Other than that it's a wonderful browser.
     
  9. Sabrewulf165

    Sabrewulf165 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,070
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2004
    Let me know when Chrome stops excessively reloading files that should be pulled from cache.

    That may sound snarky but I'm being sincere. If it weren't for that I'd probably use Chrome a lot more.
     
  10. King Icewind

    King Icewind [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,519
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    I think the percentages are different because not as many people use different browsers.

    I use Safari 4 on my laptop, desktop, and mac. Firefox whenever something doesn't load right.

    Do enough people really use Opera to contribute enough to the statistics? IMO no, but I havn't done any polls or anything to back that up.
     
  11. dr.stevil

    dr.stevil [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    11,729
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    nope. until noscript hits opera, chrome or IE, I'll be sticking with Firefox :)
     
  12. Jospeh

    Jospeh [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,886
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Firefox+no script=secure browser.
     
  13. piscian18

    piscian18 [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,706
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    Firefox+plugins. I'm not using anything else.
     
  14. Tobit

    Tobit [H]ard|DCer of the Month - March 2010/May 2011

    Messages:
    5,059
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Firefox has really been giving me a lot of performance issues since the past few revisions.. it definitely has some memory leaks the longer you leave it running. I have my browser loaded pretty much 24x7 and after a few days, Firefox would simply slow down and start acting weird. I switched to Chrome a week or so ago and haven't looked back.
     
  15. deff

    deff 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,644
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    I'd like to see a comparison of how fast vulnerabilities are fixed between browsers. The more popular a piece of software becomes, the more attention it will garner from hackers and malware writers. Its all in how fast the producer of the software fixes these issues that matters.
     
  16. krupted

    krupted 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,247
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2006
    ff has been excellent for me. i still regularly have web pages that dont do what they should in IE, and i fire up firefox and things work perfectly. not always like that, but it happens regularly.
     
  17. stop!theradio

    stop!theradio 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,594
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    Firefox runs beautifully for me, just like it always has. Except for the few bumps in the road that all browsers have had/eventually have, Firefox has been the best from the beginning, and the quickest to recover from any "bumps" in the road.
     
  18. Azhar

    Azhar Fixing stupid since 1972

    Messages:
    19,502
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2001
    Lately about the only Firefox problems I'll have randomly is when you close it, firefox.exe would stick in your task manager. A pain in the butt when you're trying to install or update addons. It won't restart properly or the addons won't work because Firefox was never restarted completely due to stuck firefox.exe.

    It's happened on multiple computers in the company and at home, so I know it's not just me.
     
  19. Zoogle

    Zoogle Gawd

    Messages:
    752
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    As long as patches consistently come out, I'll keep using Firefox. The only thing annoying me lately with Firefox is processor and memory usage.
     
  20. Nemesis999

    Nemesis999 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,769
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2004
    Firefox has demonstrated that even open-source software turns into bloated slow crap-wear over time. Dumped it a while ago, got tired of having to restart my browser to free up hundreds of MB of memory leaks.
     
  21. Toytown

    Toytown Gawd

    Messages:
    997
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Yep same here. I was hoping the latest update would fix it, but it hasnt :(
     
  22. Azhar

    Azhar Fixing stupid since 1972

    Messages:
    19,502
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2001
    open Firefox and type about:config and scroll down to browser.cache

    You'll see that by default disk caching is disabled and memory caching is enabled and caching size is 512mb. You can adjust it all in there.
     
  23. Sonofman

    Sonofman n00bie

    Messages:
    56
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2006
    I would like to see some percentage of use with these stats. It is obvious the malware folks will concentrate on the more popular. It is also important how fast problems are patched when found like deff said.
     
  24. oMek

    oMek Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    510
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    firefox has seemed to slow down over the last 6 months. i dont really use it anymore.
     
  25. Vermillion

    Vermillion 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,729
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Bingo. I don't use a whole lot of add-ons. I use a handful that make my life easier and safer.

    I don't care if Firefox is using 200MB of RAM or something. Let it use my RAM. I might as well use what I paid for. Firefox has been 100% stable for me over the years and I find it's performance is be very good.

    SRWare Iron (sorry I refuse to use Chrome itself) will be a close second once extensions hit it big and they get something like NoScript in there. Then it might be time to move from FF to Iron.
     
  26. Saist

    Saist Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    302
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    This. Microsoft has a lousy history of not disclosing bugs until well after exploits are already on the market. Apple as well has a history of failing to disclose bugs until after exploits on are on the market. Both companies also have histories of failing to disclose many bugs that they receive, yet patch before exploits enter circulation, or bugs that never have any actual exploits made available.

    Mozilla on the other hand... well... They and Chrome...

    When a bug is posted for a Mozilla product here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/

    It's posted. It's disclosed. There's no hiding it. There's no not telling investors. It's made available for everyone to see. As the common user can submit bug reports and errors in a public setting, Mozilla doesn't really ever have a chance to hide or obfuscate problems with the code.

    When a bug is posted for a Google Chrome product here : http://www.chromium.org/for-testers/bug-reporting-guidelines

    Same thing. It's posted. It's disclosed. There's no hiding it. Sure, Google may not talk about bugs that affect their officially pre-compiled Chrome browser and ChromeOS, but as long as their source code is available, pretty much anybody can report bugs or exploits in the platform.

    Like Microsoft and Safari, Opera doesn't maintain a public bug tracking system. While they do offer a form feedback, https://bugs.opera.com/wizard/, they point to a non-tracking system for followup.

    That being said, Opera has a history of accurately reporting problems and issues with their released binary code. Opera also has a tendency to follow an aggressive and constant patching strategy. I'm not exactly aware of Opera having hidden or failing to talk about exploits that were widely available for the platform.

    KDE also has a bug tracking system : https://bugs.kde.org/ So bugs filed against the KHTML based Konqueror are again, like Mozilla and Chrome. The bugs are out there, no hiding, no obfuscating.

    Now, from Chromium and Konqueror compiled against Mach BSD, we can get an idea of what kind of bugs Safari actually has, and what exploits could be used against Safari as all 3 share the same type of engine: KHTML / Webkit. That doesn't mean Apple's own behind-the-scenes mixing doesn't produce other odd errors.

    Given what we know of the background data of the engines, and those producing the engines, I'm not really sure the author of the article knows what he's talking about if he's suggesting that we reconsider FireFox because of reported exploits. I'd almost say that sort of statement immediately disqualifies the author from any sort of credibility.
     
  27. NKDietrich

    NKDietrich [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,467
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2004
    I'm more worried about the "unreported" vulnerabilities in a browser. The reported ones imply they are fixed or being fixed.
     
  28. zero2dash

    zero2dash [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,064
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    So does this mean Apple will start coming out with pro-Safari, anti-Fx ads now that things are "reported"?

    I like Chrome, I like the speed; the extension support is still in infancy though so I'll stick with Fx.
     
  29. Morphes

    Morphes 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,872
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2001
    The only reason I am not using Chrome is because of ad-blocking, I HATE ADS and the add-on for firefox is really well built and easy to block new ads that it doesn't block. I know there are other ways to block ads with chrome but the ones I have used are really annoying and inconvenient.

    Once Chrome implements add-ons that have an adblocking feature I will stick with Firefox.
     
  30. Morphes

    Morphes 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,872
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Oh and because of pipe lining, which I can reallly tell the difference with.

    (it wouldnt let me edit my previous post)
     
  31. Valset

    Valset [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,583
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    security is largely a user issue, not a browser one. that article fails there. and really, if you want safe browsing then nothing beats FF with NoScript. sorry but at the end of the day no browser is secure enough to overcome user ineptitude.

    and seconded the comment about more likely to report and respond to bugs / security issues. Microsoft still thinks WGA prevents piracy. That already tells me that they don't have a clue.
     
  32. synapsis

    synapsis Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    394
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    I've had this issue and on my box it only happens when a page has to load the Java Runtime, and only when you X the browser with a Java app running. IIRC, you can File -> Exit and it'll properly end the JRE process and firefox.exe will terminate normally.
     
  33. devil22

    devil22 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Where did MS ever state WGA prevents all piracy? It makes casual piracy harder, a lot more people would pirate Windows if it had no protections whatsoever and you could just pass the dvd around to all your friends.

    As far as number of vulnerabilities, well it's not really important, what's important is that ALL browsers have and will have vulnerabilities, and how the browser prevents the user from being infected by such vulnerabilities. IE has sandboxed mode (for 3+ years now), so does Chrome, Firefox still doesn't have sandboxing by default. Noscript is nice, but you get 95% of that by using Zones in IE (don't know about Chrome), that's why I stick with IE, if mozilla took security seriously their browser would be sandboxed, period.
     
  34. Bgrngod

    Bgrngod Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    438
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2004
    Eh... I'm not sure what this whole "reconsider" and such is. Does it really take a sit down meeting with yourself to decide to start using another browser for awhile?

    Hell, I use both Firefox and IE at the same time all the time. Alt-Tab ftw!
     
  35. Azhar

    Azhar Fixing stupid since 1972

    Messages:
    19,502
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2001
    Not really harder, just inconvenient. They would be too restricted.
     
  36. Wolfie

    Wolfie Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    496
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    If Micro$oft put half the effort into fixing their products, as they put into undermining and hacking other people's products; the world would be a much safer place....
     
  37. Azhar

    Azhar Fixing stupid since 1972

    Messages:
    19,502
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2001
    Haven't used a Microsoft product in awhile, haven't you?
     
  38. devil22

    devil22 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    You don't realize, not everyone is tech sauvy enough to even google for "wga crack" - also the activation code provides a way of knowing for sure if the software is pirated or legit, this doesn't concern the consumers much, but corporate customers can't pirate windows on their 15,000 workstations because it's auditable and one anonymous call from a disgruntled worker will cost them dearly. Seriously, you think MS, in this age of 6mbit connections in every city, should have absolutely no protection on their software? All software is crackable given enough time and effort, all you can do is try your best to make non-tech sauvy users have too hard of a time trying to figure out how to bypass it to make it worth pirating.
     
  39. devil22

    devil22 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Damn I wrote sauvy twice, I meant suavy.
     
  40. Phoenix333

    Phoenix333 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,523
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Adblock Plus + Noscript = win. Oh, and Nuke Anything. I love being able to remove pictures of people or things I dislike when browsing news sites.