Is it possible the next Half Life episode/sequel/game won't even use Source engine?

Should the next Half Life release be graphically update with a new engine?

  • Yes

    Votes: 113 66.1%

  • No

    Votes: 58 33.9%
  • Total voters
    171
Source is a continual work in progress for Valve. There will not be a new engine.

You can already see some of the improvements in the Portal 2 trailers - dynamic lighting and some really impressive particle effects for the Gel blobs.

Seemingly DOTA 2 will have vastly improved physics and lighting.

IMO art direction wins over engine tech any day.
 
Jellylesg said:
That is more PR bullshit. snip...
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So angry! lol

Of course Valve cares about making a profit. They wouldn't be in business if they didn't. However, by choosing to go for Quality over Quantity, they have endeared themselves to a lot of people. While other companies go for the buck shot strategy of game development (pump as much out as possible and hope a few connect), Valve has held fast to their principles. And by principles I don't mean "We don't care about the money", I mean "Creating quality products and delivering them only when they are ready is the best way to develop brand loyalty and as a result make a sustained profit".

I have no doubt the love of the game is a big part of what drives Valve as a company, but it's not the only thing. They like money as much as the next company, they just aren't willing to change their long term business model (one that customers love and respect) in hopes of making a quick buck. And that says something in this day and age. Most CEOs are more than willing to sacrifice the companies long term profitability if he can boost the stock prices (and as a result his own bank account) in the short term, with the thought that he'll be retired by the time his decisions come back to bite the company in the ass. :)

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that Valve supporters aren't retarded. They know Valve needs and wants to make a profit. They just prefer the way they go about it over the likes of EA and Activision.
 
Although I'll admit the Source engine is getting a bit long in the tooth and would love to see Freeman and company on a more advanced one,at this point I just want the damn game to be released. We've been hanging on that cliff for a hell of a long time,my arms are getting tired!
 
piscian18 said:
A. Valve makes games because they feel like it. End of story. Money and time meaning nothing to them.
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Statements like this seem to go against what you're saying DDigital... I understand what you are saying and you're right, but that doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who seriously think Valve would make a game regardless of if they don't think it will be profitable.

Anyways, I haven't played the HL games, but I really wish we didn't have a 3rd company jumping on the DOTA style copycatting. Pretty soon it's gonna be impossible to find decent games in them because there will be 17 different versions out sucking at the population that plays them.
 
It would be nice to see an overhaul, but I'm willing to forgive an enhanced build of Source powering the next HL game because it's Valve and I doubt it will dissapoint.
 
Wizardhawk said:
Statements like this seem to go against what you're saying DDigital... I understand what you are saying and you're right, but that doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who seriously think Valve would make a game regardless of if they don't think it will be profitable.

Anyways, I haven't played the HL games, but I really wish we didn't have a 3rd company jumping on the DOTA style copycatting. Pretty soon it's gonna be impossible to find decent games in them because there will be 17 different versions out sucking at the population that plays them.
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Meh, guess I can't speak for everyone :p
 
Another thread where people make the mistake of judging the competency of an engine based on how good the games built upon it look. The rendering component is really just a small part of a much larger, more elaborate system, and judging Source by looking at it as a whole, it's an incredibly impressive platform.

Why would Valve abandon an incredibly good platform?
 
phide said:
Another thread where people make the mistake of judging the competency of an engine based on how good the games built upon it look. The rendering component is really just a small part of a much larger, more elaborate system, and judging Source by looking at it as a whole, it's an incredibly impressive platform.

Why would Valve abandon an incredibly good platform?
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Finally someone else also says it. There is more to a game engine then how it looks on the latest high end system.
 
limitedaccess said:
Finally someone else also says it. There is more to a game engine then how it looks on the latest high end system.
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People don't just say it's mediocre based on how it looks. Surely you remeber the interpolation/hitbox controversy in CS:S, or how the physics engine is so clumsy that you can be immobilised by a small plastic milk crate or something.

It's not the worst by far but it's not the best. It is versatile, but doesn't handle down-the-sights-aiming or vehicles very well. If they overhauled or updated it it'd be pretty welcome by most I think.
 
I am a HUGE half life / valve fan but to be honest I just dont know. Valve is not known to take big steps with anything. To be honest I dont believe that Gabe has the brains to handle a high end engine or Create one himself.

Gabe stated along time ago that He would never create an Engine himself but would rather buy one instead. seeing as Gabe is a cheap ass I just dont see him buying a new engine to make a better game. Most like will Edit the current engine wich is highly outdated
 
Jellylesg said:
People don't just say it's mediocre based on how it looks. Surely you remeber the interpolation/hitbox controversy in CS:S, or how the physics engine is so clumsy that you can be immobilised by a small plastic milk crate or something.
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I really don't think it's the limitations of the physics engine causing the milk crate rubber band shit. There's a server config to make the object interactions normal like HL2, I'm not sure why they made it like that for CSS to begin with.
 
I honestly have moved on. I just don't care about it until I can actually get it.

At the rate this is going, yeah, they really should consider a new engine of some sorts. Call it Source Plus or something. If it ain't broke, don't fix it but take it up a notch.
 
There's no point in building a new engine. The Source engine is scalable and can be upgraded to support some of the features of modern graphic engines.

If you really think about it, you've all seen three different versions of the Source engine. The engine used to power HL2 was the first major revision. The engine backing HL2 Ep. 1 supported new features to complement new hardware, as did the engine backing Episode 2. The version of the engine backing Portal 2 supports some new features as well.

Since the release of the Source engine earlier in the decade, Valve has added multiprocessor support, native support for Xbox360/PS3/Mac OS, OpenGL rendering (for PS3/Mac OS), and GPU hardware acceleration for facial animations (previously done by the CPU). There are also tons of other incremental upgrades that you don't see.

I'm starting to think that people would be more satisfied if Valve had just tagged a version number for the Source engine along with their marketing material.
 
Yeah make it like the car industry, or nvidia cards. Take the same product, rename and sell it as something new.
 
noobman said:
There's no point in building a new engine. The Source engine is scalable and can be upgraded to support some of the features of modern graphic engines.
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Good enough for me, then. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


If you really think about it, you've all seen three different versions of the Source engine. The engine used to power HL2 was the first major revision. The engine backing HL2 Ep. 1 supported new features to complement new hardware, as did the engine backing Episode 2. The version of the engine backing Portal 2 supports some new features as well.

Since the release of the Source engine earlier in the decade, Valve has added multiprocessor support, native support for Xbox360/PS3/Mac OS, OpenGL rendering (for PS3/Mac OS), and GPU hardware acceleration for facial animations (previously done by the CPU). There are also tons of other incremental upgrades that you don't see.
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All good points.

I'm starting to think that people would be more satisfied if Valve had just tagged a version number for the Source engine along with their marketing material.
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Seems like.
 
It will be on the Source:Orange Box engine. They ported most of the Legacy Souce games over to that this year for the MAC.
 
I think they will come out with a new engine for HL3 , I think they began work on a new engine and HL3 when EP1 was finished 4 1/2 years ago.

My guess they will probably come out with Episode 3 along with a teaser trailer of HL3 in the summer (2011) and HL3 will come out the following year in 2012.
 
HardLiner said:
I think they will come out with a new engine for HL3 , I think they began work on a new engine and HL3 when EP1 was finished 4 1/2 years ago.

My guess they will probably come out with Episode 3 along with a teaser trailer of HL3 in the summer (2011) and HL3 will come out the following year in 2012.
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Optimistic? Remember, they're on Valve time. :p
 
I wouldn't mind the source engine for the next half life as i said before in this thread, though i think it'd be good to increase the quality of the textures, that'd improve the look big time.
 
I voted "no", because I think the engine could be updated a bit, but is adequate enough to make a good game. I mean, they could implement tessellation into the current engine, and some other more recent "bells and whistles" we see today, but a complete engine seems like a waste of time, and IMO the recent games using the engine look/feel good enough.

The story, gameplay, music, etc... ya know, the CONTENT itself, is way more important to me. And as I remember it, HL2 wasn't a technologically advanced engine either, and it still did good.

If they want to make a new engine for it though, fine... I can wait
 
COD black ops uses UE3 engine(modified). It would not be a shocker for them to update their engine for ep3.
It would only make sense to do it that way.
 
Apparently according to wiki there were two teams one working on episode 1 and the other working on episode 2
The first two episodes of Half-Life 2 were developed concurrently by separate teams
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so I guess it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that one team is now working on Episode 3 and the other HL3.
 
$100 valve will not upgrade Source until next console cycle. Somebody here said graphic power has increased. Nope, not on consoles in the last 5 years, and likely won't for another 5 more. Sadly that's where the money is and probably what Valve considers when deciding what to make. As long as the xbox uses a POS 5 year old GPU nobody gives a crap about better graphics/new engines. This sucks for oh so many reasons. But at least my GTX 260 will last forever now..
 
I'm seriously going to have to play through HL2 and all the episodes for the 3rd time to remember the story again before episode 3 comes out.
 
Youn said:
And as I remember it, HL2 wasn't a technologically advanced engine either, and it still did good.
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Huh? When HL2 came out it was considered by many to be the most graphically impressive game ever released. Both in technical graphics (the engine) and in art design. I understand how that can be forgotten though. Unlike a lot of games, HL2 has remained popular all the way up until today, while most other games of the time have fallen by the wayside. Because of that, most people have played HL2 (or one of it's mods) along side more modern games, which makes it easy to forget how good it once looked compared to the competition. It doesn't get that skewed nostalgia memory that most older games get, where you remember it looking fantastic, only because you haven't played it along side better looking modern games.

If that makes any sense :p

ObiDamnKenobi said:
$100 valve will not upgrade Source until next console cycle. Somebody here said graphic power has increased. Nope, not on consoles in the last 5 years, and likely won't for another 5 more. Sadly that's where the money is and probably what Valve considers when deciding what to make. As long as the xbox uses a POS 5 year old GPU nobody gives a crap about better graphics/new engines. This sucks for oh so many reasons. But at least my GTX 260 will last forever now..
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Like I said above, HL2 (and the Source Engine) was one of, if not THE best looking PC game released up to that point. Yet, they still were able to port it over to the ORIGINAL Xbox (they just scaled the graphics way back). Nothing says they can't do the same with Source Engine 2/HL3 and the Xbox 360/PS3. Since Valve develops primarily for the PC, and later ports their games over to consoles (instead of the other way around), they aren't as handcuffed by console limitations as many other developers.
 
its the next gamebyro, it will never die

and it gets incremental updates, look at portal 2 vids, it looks like the lighting system has been given a workover
 
Valve is obviously being left behind with the Source engine.

Look at Crytek innovating from Cryengine 2.0 to 3.0. Or id going from id tech 4 to 5. At least Epic has moved on from Unreal 3 to 3.5. Valve's Source engine? Not even a hotfix :rolleyes:
 
Too many people think Game Engine == Graphics. It's such a small part of what makes a game engine work that most people will never understand the details. All Valve has to do is swap out the rendering component of Source and they'd be good to go. It's the same reason there's still Quake 2 code floating around in parts of Source (seriously....), the same reason Source was developed from a branch of the HL1 engine, the same reason the Unreal Engine 3/3.5 is by and large a similar engine to the engine used for Unreal/UT99.

Do I think they'll heavily update their renderer for the next Half Life? Sure. But it would make no sense for them to throw out the entire engine.
 
schenksmill said:
Too many people think Game Engine == Graphics. It's such a small part of what makes a game engine work that most people will never understand the details. All Valve has to do is swap out the rendering component of Source and they'd be good to go. It's the same reason there's still Quake 2 code floating around in parts of Source (seriously....), the same reason Source was developed from a branch of the HL1 engine, the same reason the Unreal Engine 3/3.5 is by and large a similar engine to the engine used for Unreal/UT99.

Do I think they'll heavily update their renderer for the next Half Life? Sure. But it would make no sense for them to throw out the entire engine.
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Every engine is based on what came before it. When a new engine is released, a good portion of it is identical to the previous version (or what ever engine it is based on). When an engine get's a significant rewrite or update, it's usually considered a new release and gets it's own SDK. Of course Valve isn't going to completely scrap the Source engine and build something from scratch. However, a significant update to the existing platform (a big part of which will be the renderer, which will influence the graphics quality greatly) is pretty likely. And chances are that update will be large enough to warrant considering it a new engine (Source 2). If that wasn't how things worked, there would be no Source. It'd still be called The Quake Engine.

Basically what I'm saying is, don't confuse releasing a new engine with building something entirely new from the ground up. They aren't even remotely the same thing, and I doubt most people are suggesting that they do that. A new engine would simply be a significant upgrade and modernization of the existing Source Engine. Nothing more. nothing less.
 
didn't Gabe say that there would be 3 major Valve announcements in 2010?...Portal 2 might have been 1 but what are the other 2?...maybe HL3...we can hope
 
That would be like saying will the next installment of Unreal Tournament run on the Unreal Engine...
 
How could anyone really think that Valve wouldn't use a in-house engine, Source or not? It's like id or Epic outsourcing their games - not gonna happen.
 
DDigital said:
Huh? When HL2 came out it was considered by many to be the most graphically impressive game ever released.
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That's my point, it still did good even considering the fact they "updated" the previous engine. To be fair, they probably could've said they created the engine from scratch and nobody would've been the wiser, but that's not really important. The artists and designers are the ones who make it look good, and chances are they'll have more texture/model/lighting resolution to play with to make it look significantly better then HL2, and you don't need a whole new engine to do that.
 
i just played the episodes again a couple months ago... was just thinking i wish they had a new version soon...
 
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