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Is Ati slacking off a bit?

Thanks for the heads up CE.

So the revised line looks like this:

6800NU/???
6800U/X800Pro
???/X800XT

I'm still in the dark.

If the comparision chart turns out to look like this:

6800NU/X800Pro
6800U/X800XT
NV50/R500

then I call damage control right here right now.
 
Originally posted by Shorty
This is how I think things will blow:

Radeon X800 SE | GeForce 6800 XT/SE (or what ever it'll be)
Radeon X800 | GeForce 6800
Radeon X800 Pro | GeForce 6800 Ultra
Radeon X800 XT | GeForce 6850 Ultra (or n/a from Nvidia)

And Anandtech says there will be a Pro and non-Pro announced on May 26.
Click to expand...


Sorry, ATi's 12 pipe pro won't compete with the 6800 Ultra. Keep dreaming.
 
Originally posted by evilchris
Sorry, ATi's 12 pipe pro won't compete with the 6800 Ultra. Keep dreaming.
Click to expand...

As long as you promise to keep up with the baseless speculation.
 
Originally posted by evilchris
NVIDIA gave REAL F!@$#^%!@ CARDS TO REVIEWERS. REAL CARDS ARE BEING MANUFACTURED RIGHT NOW. You don't even know wtf a paper launch is. REAL CARDS were also given to winners at the LAN party Tuesday night.
Click to expand...

nvidia gave revision boards to reviews, revision boards meaning they WILL and most likly change some things for better or for worse.

they also gave fresh drivers with them

expect better performance gains at the end of the month ;)
 
It's impossible to say how well ATI's cards will perform until we have them in hand. Declaring the game over at this point is completely moronic.
 
So the revised line looks like this:

6800NU/???
6800U/X800Pro
???/X800XT
Click to expand...
I don't know but from what Anand has posted I think it comes out like this:

X800 SE / 6800XT thingy :confused:
X800 Pro / 6800NU
X800 XT / 6800U

But seeing as how there isn't a NP card listed I would assume that they just redefined their card line up...and I don't think ATI is stupid enough to put a 8 pipeline card agianst a 6800NU.

Furthermore, we will almost certainly see Radeon X800 SE with 128MB of DDR1; which will also debut with much a lower clockspeed.
Click to expand...

Can't imagine that going up agianst a 6800NU.
 
i think the x800 has a good chance at keeping up with the 6800U

yes, it does have less pipes but its a higher clock and if the 6800U is ONLY NOW getting as good image quality as the 9800XT(from what the [H] review says) we can only expect the x800 to have gained better image quality too.
 
What im wondering though is why the big deal? I realize its a new generation of cards, but look how many heads ATI turned with cards like the 9800np, 9800 pro and 9800XT. Nvidia is coming out with new cards to surpass those(although I personally dont believe it will be by much). When ATI comes out with THEIR next generation, I honestly think they will still have the advantage. Basically, nvidia has to make a new generation of cards just to compete/beat what ATI already has, and HAS had available for months now. Give credit where is due. As said earlier, its only a paper release, nothing more.

EnFoRcEr!!
divine.w ~ EnFoRcEr!!
www.divinew.zplay.net
#divine-wind (irc.gamesurge.net)

P.S.--not a flame or rant, just my opinion :)
 
Originally posted by EnFoRcEr!!
What im wondering though is why the big deal? I realize its a new generation of cards, but look how many heads ATI turned with cards like the 9800np, 9800 pro and 9800XT. Nvidia is coming out with new cards to surpass those(although I personally dont believe it will be by much). When ATI comes out with THEIR next generation, I honestly think they will still have the advantage. Basically, nvidia has to make a new generation of cards just to compete/beat what ATI already has, and HAS had available for months now. Give credit where is due. As said earlier, its only a paper release, nothing more.

EnFoRcEr!!
divine.w ~ EnFoRcEr!!
www.divinew.zplay.net
#divine-wind (irc.gamesurge.net)

P.S.--not a flame or rant, just my opinion :)
Click to expand...

Let me get this straight, you don't believe the 6800U suprpasses the 9800XT by "much"? A1 boards clocked at 400Mhz with alpha drivers are beating it by 2x. 3-4x in Shader tests. and again.... IT ISN'T A FUCKING PAPER RELEASE. THE CARD IS REAL AND IN THE HANDS OF REVIEWERS AND WINNERS OF THE LAN TOURNAMENT HELD BY NVIDIA TUESDAY NIGHT. Your opinions were asinine. "NVIDIA has to make a new generation to beat" Well, duh. Compete? i don't call the XT getting its ass handed to it "competing".
 
I'm sure they where BETA drivers (atleast thats what many previews said)
 
Originally posted by creedAMD
Hahahaha... ignore this fruit, he is trolling.
Click to expand...
]


if you don't agree with SIMPLE logic that the 6800U is BLOWING AWAY the 9800XT, YOU are trolling.
 
Originally posted by CrimandEvil
Yeah what he said. Can't we Ban him?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I should be banned since you don't agree with me. Ok. You're right, I give up. The 9800XT blows away the 6800U. ATi rulez d00d!
 
OMHGZ ATi Rox0rs d00d! Y0 Creed, waNNa trade LingerIe pics of OuR 9800s??Q!?%#?#!




PS: I challenge you to find one dumb thing about anything I have said. Saying "you're dumb" as a response to my facts ( 6800U being significantly faster than last generations ATi and NVIDA parts) proves you agree but just don't want to admit it. fanboy. You're whats known as a contrarian. You root for the underdog. ( AMD, ATi, etc ). No P4's in any of your systems? Why? I bet you hate Microsoft too.
 
Originally posted by evilchris
Yeah, I should be banned since you don't agree with me. Ok. You're right, I give up. The 9800XT blows away the 6800U. ATi rulez d00d!
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: Obviously you have been reading my posts
Fanboys are funny! :D
 
Originally posted by evilchris
OMHGZ ATi Rox0rs d00d! Y0 Creed, waNNa trade LingerIe pics of OuR 9800s??Q!?%#?#!
Click to expand...
Jesus-hop scotching- Christ..... Someone left their kid at the computer agian.
 
Originally posted by CrimandEvil
Jesus-hop scotching- Christ..... Some left their kid at the computer agian.
Click to expand...

He knows the lingo too well. Either he is a kid or his boyfriend is. LoL.
 
Some more ATI rumors from X-Bits
Old stuff.
Although I've always said that they may not be able to totally keep up with the NV cards I do think they will make great midrange cards, that is if they are made on the same PCB. Either way I think we might see another 9500NP like situation with ATI again.:D
 
One thing is true , it is a paper launch until they are available in the retail channel.

That having been said I must say that at first glance the 6800u looks very promising. I look foward to not this round but the next round since although both new offferings will trounce my 9800XT in shader tests . I have not found a game I cant enjoy at 1600 by 1200, including Far Cry. Yes, I suppose I would be able to turn up all the settings even higher and make a spectacular looking game look even better , but not 500 bucks better. I will skip this round.

By the time there are games that take advantage of these new cards it will be time for another round from both companies.

Xmass I Suspect. Then I will pull the trigger


PS: IF DOOM 3 or HF2 are released all bets are off , I bust open my check book.

I got an idea! Lets all boycott both companies until Doom or HF2 are released lol
 
Originally posted by LightSwitch
thats my birthday:) so it will be a good day
Click to expand...
Yay! Party at LightSwitch's house! We can have alittle ATI launch party ourselves! :D
 
Originally posted by evilchris
Sorry, ATi's 12 pipe pro won't compete with the 6800 Ultra. Keep dreaming.
Click to expand...

i wouldnt go as far as to say that it wont compete... but i doubt it'll beat nvidias card.. i'd say they will probably be pretty close.. we'll have to wait awhile for the x800xt release in order to see some real competition

i could be wrong though if the pro version or whatever its gonna be thats released this month has a higher clock speed than the XT to make up for the missing pipes.. but i doubt that since there would then be no point in even releasing the XT if the pro is the same speed
 
Damn this is starting to sound more and more like the Intel versus AMD stuff. High clocks making up for less pipelines.....

I don't remember where but someone was talking about how ATI would be at a disadvantage when DX9.0c is released since their cards could only work at 24 fps or whatever, I don't remember. I think it was in an older thead here but it ws based on the older (atleast now) R400 designs.
 
Originally posted by dh19440113
1. I thought ATi will be the first to roll out with the next gen card. They taped out first right?
Click to expand...

They did tape out almost a month before Nvidia which means they won't have a paper launch and then two months of no cards. You can be assured that ATI is preparing the MOAR (mother of all responses). :D

Originally posted by dh19440113

2 Nvidia is having a field day, If i was ATi I would try to bust their chops. But all we get is silence, which suggest to me that Ati isn't very well prepared against Nv40's performance. I mean x800xt will be shipped in end of may, thats a month for Nvidia to gloat.
Click to expand...

Nvidia is well known for not walking the walk so let them have their fun. The only bad thing is it gives them up to two months to tweak their drivers, at a cost of IQ of course. One more release with all the hype and Nvidia will be solely a chipset manufacture.

Originally posted by dh19440113

3. The x800pro will be priced at $399, compare to geforce 6800 at $299, (as suggest all over internet). These are equivalent cards with 12 pipeline. Nvidia has a huge price/performance advantage if the price are true. To make a mistake like that is foolish for ati. The mainstream market is the most important segment.
Click to expand...

I'm willing to bet the 9800ProXT will outperform the 6800NU and will be priced right down with the NU. Remember there isn't one game on the calendar that will take advantage of everything Nvidia is hyping so it really doesn't matter. By the time PS3.0 games are released, we will already have the R500 and NV50 on the retail shelves.

Originally posted by dh19440113

these three point does not bode well for ati. :(
Click to expand...

Or, it plays right into their hands!

The last thing you must remember is ATI doesn't visit this forum so you there will never be any good information that originates here. Additionally, ATI doesn't play "smoke and mirrors" like Nvidia so we will have to wait for April 26 to flame!
 
Originally posted by CrimandEvil
Damn this is starting to sound more and more like the Intel versus AMD stuff. High clocks making up for less pipelines.....


Its the longer pipeline that allows for higher clock speed and as well as it being a necessity in order to offset any missed branch predicitons.

video subsystem pipelines are a different animal
Click to expand...
 
I don't remember where but someone was talking about how ATI would be at a disadvantage when DX9.0c is released since their cards could only work at 24 fps or whatever, I don't remember.
Click to expand...

That was originally regarding NV3X cards, which were supposed to see large performance increases with "DX9.1" (9.0c), which somehow didn't happen. Admittedly the only place I'd seen it mentioned was by nvidia fanatics who were convinced the NV35 was just going to blow the doors off of the R350 once DX9.0c came around and it's true power was revealed. Unfortunately for their DX9.0c dreams, anemic shader performance is anemic shader performance. Luckily for us all the NV40 has ass-kicking shader performance.

The 24 thing was referring to 24 bit floating point precision, which the R300's output at rather than: INT12 or INT16 & FP16 or FP32 like the NV3X's.
 
Originally posted by MrHappyGoLucky



Nvidia is well known for not walking the walk so let them have their fun. The only bad thing is it gives them up to two months to tweak their drivers, at a cost of IQ of course. One more release with all the hype and Nvidia will be solely a chipset manufacture.



I'm willing to bet the 9800ProXT will outperform the 6800NU and will be priced right down with the NU. Remember there isn't one game on the calendar that will take advantage of everything Nvidia is hyping so it really doesn't matter. By the time PS3.0 games are released, we will already have the R500 and NV50 on the retail shelves.
Click to expand...

Im pretty sure they learned from their past ass beating to lay off the lame "cheats' so your point is moot untill they are once again caught up in a cheat situation again.
And honestly I dont see the 9800pro or xt spanking the 6800nu
the 6800U handed the 9800 ass to it. it may perfrom very close..but i dont think itll out perform it.
And as far as the games now useing what the card has, think of it as more of a "future use" item than anything else...oh and farcry does have support for PS3.0 and its here and now.
now im going back to work
 
Originally posted by MrHappyGoLucky
They did tape out almost a month before Nvidia which means they won't have a paper launch and then two months of no cards. You can be assured that ATI is preparing the MOAR (mother of all responses). :D



Nvidia is well known for not walking the walk so let them have their fun. The only bad thing is it gives them up to two months to tweak their drivers, at a cost of IQ of course. One more release with all the hype and Nvidia will be solely a chipset manufacture.



I'm willing to bet the 9800ProXT will outperform the 6800NU and will be priced right down with the NU. Remember there isn't one game on the calendar that will take advantage of everything Nvidia is hyping so it really doesn't matter. By the time PS3.0 games are released, we will already have the R500 and NV50 on the retail shelves.



Or, it plays right into their hands!

The last thing you must remember is ATI doesn't visit this forum so you there will never be any good information that originates here. Additionally, ATI doesn't play "smoke and mirrors" like Nvidia so we will have to wait for April 26 to flame!
Click to expand...

Wow, that's some serious fanboyism, all of your comments. Wow! Do you think NVIDIA is some hack company? They are world class. Intel screwed up with the CC820. Did it hurt them? Every company makes mistakes, even your precious ATi.
 
Originally posted by evilchris
Wow, that's some serious fanboyism, all of your comments. Wow! Do you think NVIDIA is some hack company? They are world class. Intel screwed up with the CC820. Did it hurt them? Every company makes mistakes, even your precious ATi.
Click to expand...

Pot to kettle, come in kettle!!
 
Originally posted by creedAMD
Pot to kettle, come in kettle!!
Click to expand...

LOL!

The funny part is I will buy which ever card is actually better. Of course, I am going to wait until HL2 and Doom 3 are released to see if an upgrade is really necessary. If Nvidia really has learned their lesson and doesn't get caught with their hands in their pants for a good few month, I would switch back in two seconds.

I'm actually more excited about the 939 A64 than video cards but thought I'd join in the fun.

flame on!
 
Originally posted by Visable-assassin
I dont see the 9800pro or xt spanking the 6800nu
the 6800U handed the 9800 ass to it. it may perfrom very close..but i dont think itll out perform it.
Click to expand...

I think a 12 pipeline versus a 8 pipeline with a higher clock will be a draw. That doesn't say much for a new generation card. The Ultra is the show stopper and the others will be also rans.

Originally posted by Visable-assassin

And as far as the games now useing what the card has, think of it as more of a "future use" item than anything else...oh and farcry does have support for PS3.0 and its here and now.
Click to expand...

Last I checked PS3.0 needs DX9c? I'd bet a large amount of money that we will see an entire new line of cards by both Nvidia and ATI before there are two games that use PS3.0 by default and we actually see DX9c available by MS.
 
if the 6800NU is indeed 128 bit bandwidth, its gonna need some serious help to keep up with something that will be able to provide twice as much bandwidth, and it will have half the memory too (which wont show much a difference in some games, but for later games it will start to blemish the 6800NUs scores a bit)
 
Well if you look at the hall of fame at FM, an XT with just 8 pipes at ~600core/<500mem gets 9-10k(yes I know they're on 4ghz cpu's), you do the math...
 
Originally posted by MrHappyGoLucky
I think a 12 pipeline versus a 8 pipeline with a higher clock will be a draw. That doesn't say much for a new generation card. The Ultra is the show stopper and the others will be also rans.



Last I checked PS3.0 needs DX9c? I'd bet a large amount of money that we will see an entire new line of cards by both Nvidia and ATI before there are two games that use PS3.0 by default and we actually see DX9c available by MS.
Click to expand...


a draw or close to it man...but i dont see it overpowering the card.
and farcrys new patch supports PS3.0 shit look it up
 
As many people have said in the thread, speculation will only take you so far. Wait until all the cards are down before pulling in the pile of chips. But there are some things to consider...

First, a previous rumor stated the performance of the 6800 Ultra (which has since turned out to be accurate) and the claim was made that the X800 Pro did score lower than the 6800U but not by a huge amount. This implies the X800P will score higher than the 6800NU but lower than the 6800U. Since its assumed price ($400) is exactly between the speculated prices of the two 6800 cards, that makes sense. While it is true the X800P has less pipelines, it also has better clocks than the 6800U, which will make up quite a bit but not entirely. This fits in-line with my above speculation.

The X800XT will not only have 16 pipelines, but will also have higher clocks. It's reasonable to believe it will match or beat the 6800U. But it also won't be out until later. This is nothing new to the graphics card scene. Its price point at $500 makes this more reasonable to suggest. The X800 Pro will fill in the 6800 gap.

Now from what we know currently (I emphasize that strongly), this is how it's shaping up:
X800 XT -- $500
X800 Pro -- $400
X800 SE -- $300
X600 -- $200

6800U -- $500
6800NU -- $300

From that conclusion I must say that ATi isn't exactly slacking, they instead seem to have all the bases covered while simultaneously having probably the fastest card in the X800 XT coming out. How is that slacking?
 
Ati taped out first, however has doubts about Nvidia new card. They heard from cebit that 6800u has a slight higher score than x800pro, therefore they decide to wait and let Nvidia release first. while pushing up x800xt to beat 6800u in may 31. We see that nvidia has a gap between 299 to 499, it will probably be filled by a midrange 6800 yet to be anounced. Now everything comes down to performance. that will be solved on the 26th of april.

x800xt vs 6800u
x800pro vs 6800 mid
x800se vs 6800xt

the price more or less make alot of sense.
Ati will probably lose face when x800pro isn't as fast as 6800u, but x800xt will save ati a month later. Otherwise there will be no sence in releasing x800xt a month later if x800pro is faster than 6800u.

Ati can yet make a bad situation good if their x800xt is faster than 6800u. Since Ati don't sound a peep, the public hopefully won't notice that 6800u actually posed a threat to ATI.

This is just my way of putting bits and pieces together to form a very likely scenario. A informed hypothesis can have mistakes, so bear with me. help me correct them, but don't flame or curse on this thread.
 
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