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IPS a fuss?

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ithehappy

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Mar 3, 2014
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Around six months (or maybe more, don't remember) ago I ditched my TN panelled Dell monitor for a IPS panel Dell one, U2412M. I kept seeing articles about how awful TN panels are etc. etc., so hated it, ditched it. Now with this IPS panel, well what's really the difference? It was supposed to produce way better colour accuracy, saturation etc., but I am sorry I don't see much, if anything at all!
I have a TV, a Bravia, a VA panelled one, which produces accurate colours than this monitor, and I am not even going to say my phone's (Note 3) colour accuracy in movie mode.

So what am I missing here? Please don't say I need to get my eyes checked, cause I know what I am seeing, and I am extremely obsessed about display quality, and therefore colour accuracy and stuffs.

Would any kind person want to shed some light on this? I am kind of in a dark.
 
Oh dear, if that's the only major thing then so many thousand articles are wrong, and I just wasted my money :(
 
if you're just comparing the technologies, i think that is the only major advantage ips has. it may not seem like a lot but it means that ips has far greater potential for image fidelity than tn, as even if you do calibrate a tn monitor, the image you see won't be consistent from top to bottom. so because of this, ips monitors in general tend to be better tuned at the factory than the average tn monitor.

also you should
1. somewhat calibrate your u2412m. at least the gamma curve and whitepoint.
2. go back to the tn panel after using your u2412m exclusively for a month.

when i first went from a tn to a calibrated crt i wasn't too impressed, but when i went back to using my tn for a day, the viewing angles really really stuck out.
 
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Now I'm no expert but maybe you'll see a bigger difference between the two if you calibrate the monitors? Maybe out of the box with their default settings the difference doesn't seem that big.
 
Darn, I forgot to mention it, I did calibrate the unit, well just by applying the ICC profile which was available on, well where was it, tftcentral or something? Yes, it did make difference on that profile , the colours were better saturated definitely (now I'm on factory settings, because of formatting the OS) but still what I'm asking is, I expected to see a major difference, and I mean totally from the perspective of colour reproduction (viewing angle doesn't matter to me, I don't move at all). Like I expected reds to come out as red, like my phone shows, but nah, it's still somewhat orange mixed, almost same as it was on my previous TN!
I mean I paid 17k ₹ for this thing, honestly I expected better results, much better.
 
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viewing angles matter even if you don't move because the light that enters your eyes come from different angles in different areas of the screen.

do you mean like a pure red (255,0,0) color?

most computer monitors, including the u2412m, are designed to hit the srgb/rec709 gamut. from what i see on tftcentral, the 2412m does that very well. the red primary of the srgb gamut isn't really red; as you describe it is a bit orangish. your note3's native gamut is quite a bit larger than srgb and probably has a "redder" red primary by default. however this isn't a good thing unless you have content designed to be viewed in something other than srgb.

but i know that samsung's movie/cinema mode shrinks the phone's gamut to be closer to srgb. if red still appears more red than on the lcd even in movie mode, then that probably means that the phone's red primary is still a bit oversaturated in movie mode
 
Ouch :( perhaps it's the AG coating that's hurting it. I saw a pretty big difference between my matte TN VG248QE and my glossy IPS catleap. Could be the fact that my catleap was glossy and not matte, or it could just be that the 248QE in lightboost mode is the most horrendous monitor out there when it comes to colors.
 
I sold my IPS at a Rummage Sale just bought another TN blacks were wreaking my videos and games.
 
Your color accuracy ;)

I think what you want is a wide gamut model and have red like RED you thinking is the right RED, but that's not color accuracy.

SONY love wide gamut on their TV as well.
 
I marvel that so many are able to not notice the vertical gamma shift of TN panels. I'm talking about even when you're not moving that the bottom of the screen is not consistent with the top of the screen. Do you not see this? Do you not care? Then by all means, enjoy your TN panels.

Edit: "color accuracy" and "TN" do not belong in the same conversation, unless you're deluded about what color accuracy means. How can you have color accuracy when the bottom of the screen doesn't match the top of the screen?
 
yeah, the 2412's coating wasn't great. Why'd you go with that model over, say, the 2414?
 
baii said:
Your color accuracy ;)

I think what you want is a wide gamut model and have red like RED you thinking is the right RED, but that's not color accuracy.

SONY love wide gamut on their TV as well.
Click to expand...
I think you underestimated the part where I mentioned I'm obsessed about displays!

I have been testing this thing for quite a long while, and no, I didn't see random sceneries on internet to check colour reproduction of the monitor. I borrowed my colleague's 5D Mark (or something like that) to take pictures of flowers in my garden, especially colours like green, red and blue, as they matter most. Then I reviewed those photos on my monitor and on my phone (on my t.v. too, but that's not really what I want to say here), along with the actual product, the flowers in this case, I have lost count how many times I've compared them, well, I've been doing that with different other items too, finally I bothered to ask today, the monitor is doing worst if compared with that other two items, being the most over saturated unit! Yes, if I change the tv's profile to Standard and phone's display mode to Adapt then the monitor will be the best performer, but that's irrelevant.

So in short, no, I'm not thinking that that my phone is displaying Red properly because I think it is the proper red, IT IS.

I know about the matte coating, I have read about it on Prad etc. before buying, but nowhere it was mentioned that it could be a deal breaker, it was mentioned as a poor coating, but that's all. And my room is also very dark when I use my monitor, I hate too much light around it.

Anyway, what's done is done. I have purchased it, it's ultimately my fault, need to get over with it. But the main concern of mine remains, shall I stick with IPS, or would it be better to go for other panels, VA precisely? Cause I will be upgrading my monitor pretty soon along with my rig, and I just don't want another monitor like this. Now honestly I don't have the cash to try one of those NEC or Eizo, importing them is another issue as well, but I need to be completely clear about IPS panels, and I need reasons as to why I should stick with them.

Everyone has an idea that IPS provides most accurate colours, VA a little bit more saturated, and OLED, well they are considered as king of saturation. Well in my case the list is inverse :|
 
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deruberhanyok said:
yeah, the 2412's coating wasn't great. Why'd you go with that model over, say, the 2414?
Click to expand...
Honestly I don't even remember why! As far as I could stretch my brain it was not available temporarily at that time, and also if I'm not lost it was a 1080p model and I wanted a 1200p I think.
 
Comixbooks said:
I sold my IPS at a Rummage Sale just bought another TN blacks were wreaking my videos and games.
Click to expand...
Well yeah, crushed blacks are a ™ of IPS panels, but I knew that before buying, and I was completely prepared for that. While watching a movie the awful contrast ratio is another thing too, but well I knew that too. I didn't come here to complain about IPS' negatives, I came here to be informed, especially about the colour reproduction part, because that's what matters to me most, regardless of peoples' sarcasm about 'my colour accuracy' :)
 
evilsofa said:
I marvel that so many are able to not notice the vertical gamma shift of TN panels. I'm talking about even when you're not moving that the bottom of the screen is not consistent with the top of the screen. Do you not see this? Do you not care? Then by all means, enjoy your TN panels.

Edit: "color accuracy" and "TN" do not belong in the same conversation, unless you're deluded about what color accuracy means. How can you have color accuracy when the bottom of the screen doesn't match the top of the screen?
Click to expand...

What exactly is color accuracy?

And what does it do when it comes to gaming? Because generally colors in games tend not to be real, and thus there is no 'accurate' color to depict.
 
chenw said:
What exactly is color accuracy?

And what does it do when it comes to gaming? Because generally colors in games tend not to be real, and thus there is no 'accurate' color to depict.
Click to expand...

You are the first person in the thread to talk about gaming; the OP isn't (or so I hope). Most games look better if colors are oversaturated, except, of course, those which have a deliberately undersaturated art style. Color accuracy has little or nothing to do with gaming. I agree completely with you on that point.

Color accuracy is important when you're matching the colors on your display to what you are printing, or to other artwork made either by you or by others, or working with clients who are choosing colors when sitting beside you (viewing angles matter hugely in that case). This is my vague outsider knowledge of color accuracy, as one who does not earn money based on the accuracy of the colors of my display. From what little I do know about the subject, TNs are not appropriate for any sort of work that requires color accuracy.

The OP states that they are "extremely obsessed about display quality", but from what they are posting, I don't think they earn money based on their display quality, which would result in quite a different knowledge base about color accuracy than they have now.
 
I hated TN for only two reasons:

HORRIBLE result when calibrating to under 6500k.
Vertical shifting.
 
I think you shouldn't give up on ips just yet as this is just one monitor and there could be an ips monitor out there that will satisfy you. You already have a VA TV so I wouldn't advise getting a VA monitor for movie watching since you've got the TV for that. And since you didn't make much mention of gaming I also wouldn't recommend a TN monitor so definitely stick with ips and maybe the next purchase will be a more satisfactory one.
 
ithehappy, when I read over your posts, I realize that you never say what you use your computer display for. We can't inform you why one panel type is better than another until we know what you are doing with it.
 
ithehappy said:
Around six months (or maybe more, don't remember) ago I ditched my TN panelled Dell monitor for a IPS panel Dell one, U2412M. I kept seeing articles about how awful TN panels are etc. etc., so hated it, ditched it. Now with this IPS panel, well what's really the difference? It was supposed to produce way better colour accuracy, saturation etc., but I am sorry I don't see much, if anything at all!
I have a TV, a Bravia, a VA panelled one, which produces accurate colours than this monitor, and I am not even going to say my phone's (Note 3) colour accuracy in movie mode.

So what am I missing here? Please don't say I need to get my eyes checked, cause I know what I am seeing, and I am extremely obsessed about display quality, and therefore colour accuracy and stuffs.

Would any kind person want to shed some light on this? I am kind of in a dark.
Click to expand...

IPS is for viewing angles and slightly better (if any), color accuracy is decided by the LUT of the monitor, cheap monitors usually have 6 bit lut, if you go from a 6bit LUT monitor to another one, with the only difference being TN and IPS, you may not see much of a difference.
 
Not sure why you can't see it, my ultrabook's ips(Zenbook prime, 2012 version, 1080p IPS screen, one of the best if not the best 1080 IPS on notebook back then) is way better than my old destop TN, they just don't even compare.

My new BenQ BL3200PT is a noticeably better still, far more natural color more smooth color transaction and you can see a lot more details in darker scenes.

But it's not fair to compare desktop display to a laptop display.
 
I dont understand whats the fuss about IPS either. Now mind you, I hate TN. The vertical gamma shift is terrible and incredibly distracting. IPS, the year or two I had one, was incredible relief but that was the only good thing about it. After going to VA there was no going back. Accurate enough colors and incredible contrast ratio is so good and the mild horizontal gamma shift is almost invisible compared to TNs vertical.

I know IPS can have objectively more accurate colors than VA but that matters only when you are producing stuff and VA is not far behind in this regard either. The colors may measure better in IPS but due to mediocre contrast ratio and black depth the screen may be look bit bland. On the other hand VA panel with deep blacks and high contrast can make the colors pop up more and be more lively and that is IMHO infinitely more beneficial for gaming and movie enjoyment compared to how low your DeltaE is.
 
@op
if you like human faces to look unnaturally red then just buy wide gamut monitor
 
For me it's an image consistency issue due to the viewing angles. Even IPS however is not ideal in this regard having compared to OLED screens.

Measurements (eg. contrast, deltaE) are done completely perpendicular to the display but the issue is how does this apply to actual displays in real usage? In actual usage you can only be viewing at 0 degrees one spot on the display at a time. As such the actual image in FOV becomes problematic due to gamma shifting.

So the issue basically is with an IPS display actual characteristics (eg. contrast, black levels, color accuracy) is consistent across you're actual real field of view. Whereas for a TN (the other extreme) the image is noticeably (at least for me) inconsistent. People also say this isn't noticeable in gaming but to me it also is.

Even with VAs (granted the VA sample I have as a comparison is not very good atm but my IPS display is rather low end as well) this is still an issue. The blacks were much blacker but there was an image consistency issue. The actual fine details in the shadows would be different and viewed scene would change with slight eye/head shifts).

This doesn't mean IPS is perfect or the best however. I still find a lot of issues that would make me prefer a TN or VA. Even with a hypothetical OLED I'd be massively paranoid of longevity issues for computer (both productivity and gaming) usage.

Maybe I should just get a TN since I have an IPS and VA display already, but that might just make things worse as I notice the flaws more in comparison to each other which is what is happening when I compare the IPS to VA :p
 
ithehappy said:
Around six months (or maybe more, don't remember) ago I ditched my TN panelled Dell monitor for a IPS panel Dell one, U2412M. I kept seeing articles about how awful TN panels are etc. etc., so hated it, ditched it. Now with this IPS panel, well what's really the difference? It was supposed to produce way better colour accuracy, saturation etc., but I am sorry I don't see much, if anything at all!
I have a TV, a Bravia, a VA panelled one, which produces accurate colours than this monitor, and I am not even going to say my phone's (Note 3) colour accuracy in movie mode.

So what am I missing here? Please don't say I need to get my eyes checked, cause I know what I am seeing, and I am extremely obsessed about display quality, and therefore colour accuracy and stuffs.

Would any kind person want to shed some light on this? I am kind of in a dark.
Click to expand...


It's all about the ambient lightning. The other two panels you mention are VA/OLED, both with significantly higher contrast.

IPS only has good color reproduction in a fairly brightly lit room, in a dim/dark room, like many have at home, their color accuracy is garbage.

I use IPS on my laptop, which i use in bright rooms (offices, etc). Its well suited for that.
At home i use VA monitors, plasma tv, OLED tablet, i wouldnt touch an IPS with a pair of pliers at home.
 
ithehappy said:
Darn, I forgot to mention it, I did calibrate the unit, well just by applying the ICC profile which was available on, well where was it, tftcentral or something?
Click to expand...
Using a random profile measured from someone else's panel does NOT result in a calibrated display. If you;re not measuring your own display in order to create the profile, you're missing the whole point of calibration.
 
ithehappy said:
I think you underestimated the part where I mentioned I'm obsessed about displays!

I have been testing this thing for quite a long while, and no, I didn't see random sceneries on internet to check colour reproduction of the monitor. I borrowed my colleague's 5D Mark (or something like that) to take pictures of flowers in my garden, especially colours like green, red and blue, as they matter most. Then I reviewed those photos on my monitor and on my phone (on my t.v. too, but that's not really what I want to say here), along with the actual product, the flowers in this case, I have lost count how many times I've compared them, well, I've been doing that with different other items too, finally I bothered to ask today, the monitor is doing worst if compared with that other two items, being the most over saturated unit! Yes, if I change the tv's profile to Standard and phone's display mode to Adapt then the monitor will be the best performer, but that's irrelevant.

So in short, no, I'm not thinking that that my phone is displaying Red properly because I think it is the proper red, IT IS.

I know about the matte coating, I have read about it on Prad etc. before buying, but nowhere it was mentioned that it could be a deal breaker, it was mentioned as a poor coating, but that's all. And my room is also very dark when I use my monitor, I hate too much light around it.

Anyway, what's done is done. I have purchased it, it's ultimately my fault, need to get over with it. But the main concern of mine remains, shall I stick with IPS, or would it be better to go for other panels, VA precisely? Cause I will be upgrading my monitor pretty soon along with my rig, and I just don't want another monitor like this. Now honestly I don't have the cash to try one of those NEC or Eizo, importing them is another issue as well, but I need to be completely clear about IPS panels, and I need reasons as to why I should stick with them.

Everyone has an idea that IPS provides most accurate colours, VA a little bit more saturated, and OLED, well they are considered as king of saturation. Well in my case the list is inverse :|
Click to expand...

As I said, get a wide gamut model, there are benq, dell, asus making cheaper ones.
It have nothing to do with IPS whatnot. And a srgb jpeg taken from a 5D mark whatever in a un-color managed environment is only as good as a random pic on the internet, camera output aren't even meant to have accurate color by default.
 
ithehappy said:
I think you underestimated the part where I mentioned I'm obsessed about displays!

I have been testing this thing for quite a long while, and no, I didn't see random sceneries on internet to check colour reproduction of the monitor. I borrowed my colleague's 5D Mark (or something like that) to take pictures of flowers in my garden, especially colours like green, red and blue, as they matter most. Then I reviewed those photos on my monitor and on my phone (on my t.v. too, but that's not really what I want to say here), along with the actual product, the flowers in this case, I have lost count how many times I've compared them, well, I've been doing that with different other items too, finally I bothered to ask today, the monitor is doing worst if compared with that other two items, being the most over saturated unit! Yes, if I change the tv's profile to Standard and phone's display mode to Adapt then the monitor will be the best performer, but that's irrelevant.

So in short, no, I'm not thinking that that my phone is displaying Red properly because I think it is the proper red, IT IS.

I know about the matte coating, I have read about it on Prad etc. before buying, but nowhere it was mentioned that it could be a deal breaker, it was mentioned as a poor coating, but that's all. And my room is also very dark when I use my monitor, I hate too much light around it.

Anyway, what's done is done. I have purchased it, it's ultimately my fault, need to get over with it. But the main concern of mine remains, shall I stick with IPS, or would it be better to go for other panels, VA precisely? Cause I will be upgrading my monitor pretty soon along with my rig, and I just don't want another monitor like this. Now honestly I don't have the cash to try one of those NEC or Eizo, importing them is another issue as well, but I need to be completely clear about IPS panels, and I need reasons as to why I should stick with them.

Everyone has an idea that IPS provides most accurate colours, VA a little bit more saturated, and OLED, well they are considered as king of saturation. Well in my case the list is inverse :|
Click to expand...
Simply proclaiming you are "obsessed about displays" does in no way qualify you as a display expert. You seem to think you are in your own opinion.

Thousands of articles and professional display experts are not wrong. Color is displayed more accurately and uniformly on IPS.

So this thread should simply state you disagree. Enjoy your uniformly accurately colored TN panels.
 
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So, to summarize what I read on [H]Displays since I registered;

- 20 years old used CRT is God
- VA is too slow
- Plasma is dead
- OLED is born-dead
- IPS is a fuss

Next topic: why TN is the future ? :D

Bet people will be unhappy even with 24K nanotube displays or alike many decades from now. :p
 
You know, I had TN panels at work and at home, but I switched to IPS when I went to a triple display setup. The difference was night and day. In part, this was due to the matte coating on the TN panels and the glossy coating on the IPS, but the change in the viewing angles was massive. When a color at the top of the screen is the same as the bottom, it makes a big difference.

My only regret with IPS is that refresh rates above 60Hz are hard (impossible) to come by in most cases. Wasn't a big deal 2 years ago, but with variable refresh technologies becoming more prevalent, the absence is a bit more real.
 
It is essential to remember that there is HIGH Quality IPS (and TN), and LOW Quality TN (and IPS). You tend to get what you pay for but that's a big generalization. Variables like AG/glossy and calibrated vs. non-calibrated can all affect your subjective experience.

Speaking personally, I hold the static image quality of a high-performing IPS panel, without AG coating and with a minimum level of calibration, in very high regard. The only real let-down with IPS can be the deepness of blacks compared to something like VA.
 
Rav3n said:
Simply proclaiming you are "obsessed about displays" does in no way qualify you as a display expert. You seem to think you are in your own opinion.

Thousands of articles and professional display experts are not wrong. Color is displayed more accurately and uniformly on IPS.

So this thread should simply state you disagree. Enjoy your uniformly accurately colored Tan.
Click to expand...

Display expert? I? What the heck? If I were a display expert then I would not be creating this topic!

Get a grip, mate.
 
Richard Jones said:
So, to summarize what I read on [H]Displays since I registered;

- 20 years old used CRT is God
- VA is too slow
- Plasma is dead
- OLED is born-dead
- IPS is a fuss

Next topic: why TN is the future ? :D

Bet people will be unhappy even with 24K nanotube displays or alike many decades from now. :p
Click to expand...

Maybe...but I think this board in large part reflects a level of frustration that didn't previously exist in the enthusiast community and won't necessarily exist in the future. That presently one can spend a great deal on a display and still suffer from manufacturing defects that afflict a great many and are hard to avoid. Or perhaps having read a review on the same model that wasn't even the same panel. Or it arriving perfectly and manufactured within expectation, but still failing basic image quality fundamentals such as an ability to produce black or good contrast...
 
baii said:
As I said, get a wide gamut model, there are benq, dell, asus making cheaper ones.
It have nothing to do with IPS whatnot. And a srgb jpeg taken from a 5D mark whatever in a un-color managed environment is only as good as a random pic on the internet, camera output aren't even meant to have accurate color by default.
Click to expand...
It was a RAW which I processed later via Lightroom. I don't believe JPEG processing of any camera, doesn't matter how expensive it is.

What you are saying is actually very wrong, that a random pic on internet is same as a pic taken from a rather decent camera, especially when I have the subject with me and I can verify it personally.
 
evilsofa said:
ithehappy, when I read over your posts, I realize that you never say what you use your computer display for. We can't inform you why one panel type is better than another until we know what you are doing with it.
Click to expand...
My first preference is gaming, because I'm a gamer, but as no games can help me to understand/test the colour reproduction of a monitor, next preference will be photo editing.
 
EdZ said:
Using a random profile measured from someone else's panel does NOT result in a calibrated display. If you;re not measuring your own display in order to create the profile, you're missing the whole point of calibration.
Click to expand...
Yeah, thanks for letting me know, but not everyone in the world has the time!
 
Colour uniformity of IPS is miles better than TN panels, no one can ignore that. But I'm not a person who looks at a display from the very left top corner to the extreme right bottom corner, I mostly see at the centre of the frame, and there's practically no difference between a IPS and a TN panel.
 
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