iPad 2 GPU benchmarks, destorys Xoom Tablet

/rant/

Limp Gawd
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Well, to be honest I am more than just a little surprised, not to say disappointed by the numbers we got from NVidia's Tegra 2 SoC. While keeping in mind that the PowerVR SGX543MP2 GPU in Apple's iPad 2 has to drive about 25% less pixels, I thought NVidia could do better.
 

argor

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Well, to be honest I am more than just a little surprised, not to say disappointed by the numbers we got from NVidia's Tegra 2 SoC. While keeping in mind that the PowerVR SGX543MP2 GPU in Apple's iPad 2 has to drive about 25% less pixels, I thought NVidia could do better.
you have to remember hue they are uppaganst powervr(imtec) one of the few companies that have more experience in computer graphics than nvidia
also to note PowerVR Series 6 has stared to be announced in SoC´s
so nvidia need to step up it game or they may be left behind
also PowerVR has plan to integrating raytracing hardware in it gpu´s
 

anthrex

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This is a big slap in the face to Nvidia mostly. They've been riding on their name recognition for way too long and have to step up their game on all fronts. Their "aggressive" mobile roadmap is going to be pretty much the exact same as other arm manufacturers as they don't develop the CPU. Also seeing that Sony's NGP will be be using the PowerVR SGX 543MP4 Nvidia has a tough road ahead.
 
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-What version of android was the Xoom running ?
-How optimized is each version of the GLBenchmark ?
-25% difference in resolution ?
 

/rant/

Limp Gawd
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I am indeed aware that PowerVR isn't quite a player in the field to forget about - but as it turns out, NVidia got the attention instead. I am not bothered so much by the iPad 2 performing better - if one may say that considering the significantly lower screen resulution - but the absolute numbers themselves.

Because while one competitor (that of course being Apple) finally manages to provide us with a buttery smooth show in a state-of-the-art mobile benchmark, the other can't really match the high expectations they put on themselves.

I have to agree with anthrex for thinking that NVidia may have gotten too much attention for their name in the desktop segment while not actually delivering in this ultra mobile segment. NVidia really needs to step up their game. And manufacturers like LG can't just keep praising their Tegra 2 phones with more PowerVR SGX543MP2 (or even better components, for that matter) devices on the horizon.
 

YeuEmMaiMai

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Nvidia is just trying to make money as cheaply as possible by over hyping their crap
 

Serpico

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This is a big slap in the face to Nvidia mostly. They've been riding on their name recognition for way too long and have to step up their game on all fronts. Their "aggressive" mobile roadmap is going to be pretty much the exact same as other arm manufacturers as they don't develop the CPU. Also seeing that Sony's NGP will be be using the PowerVR SGX 543MP4 Nvidia has a tough road ahead.

No kidding. I'm shocked at the numbers. Like everyone else, I was expecting much more from the Tegra 2 based on NVIDIA's history in the GPU field. Even with a 25% difference in pixel count, which mainly accounts for a 16:9 aspect ratio instead of 4:3, that still doesn't explain the 2-5x difference in performance. If that was the case then I'd still be gaming on a 4:3 display instead of a 16:10 or 16:9 like I do now.

The Tegra 3 really needs to step up and go way beyond what PowerVR has cooking. NVIDIA is literally a whole year behind at the moment.

As you said, the Sony NGP will be using PowerVR's quad core GPU, and I'm positive that Apple will be using it or something like it in conjunction with a double res 2048x1536 display in the next iPad. If NVIDIA doesn't step up, they are going to get completely sidelined in mobile devices.
 

argor

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The Tegra 3 really needs to step up and go way beyond what PowerVR has cooking. NVIDIA is literally a whole year behind at the moment.
more than that from what i hearing NVIDIA next generation gpu architecture will not come til Logan in 2013
while PowerVR Series 6 will be in devices in late 2012 most likely the ST-Ericsson A9600
will be the first soc in devices as it starts Sampling in late 2011
 

tybert7

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No kidding. I'm shocked at the numbers. Like everyone else, I was expecting much more from the Tegra 2 based on NVIDIA's history in the GPU field. Even with a 25% difference in pixel count, which mainly accounts for a 16:9 aspect ratio instead of 4:3, that still doesn't explain the 2-5x difference in performance. If that was the case then I'd still be gaming on a 4:3 display instead of a 16:10 or 16:9 like I do now.

The Tegra 3 really needs to step up and go way beyond what PowerVR has cooking. NVIDIA is literally a whole year behind at the moment.

As you said, the Sony NGP will be using PowerVR's quad core GPU, and I'm positive that Apple will be using it or something like it in conjunction with a double res 2048x1536 display in the next iPad. If NVIDIA doesn't step up, they are going to get completely sidelined in mobile devices.


Same here, shocked. But the bile of giving a nod to apple is mitigated by the fact that the heavy lifting here was done by that PowerVR chip.

Sweet revenge for lasting so long after being ousted in the graphics market by the likes of nvidia and ati and now beating them in a different graphics arena.
 

/rant/

Limp Gawd
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And Apple doesn't?
Yes, indeed they do that. Apple products have been living on a wave of hypes since the original iPhone came out. But you know what the difference is between Apple and NVidia? Apple lives up the the expectations.

Apple's marketing deparment does its best in telling people and the media the purest of crap. The iPhone 4 and original iPad run on a so-called Apple A4 SoC - and while the hype around a presumably renamed and underclocked Samsung Hummingbird SoC with an Apple imprint on top, namely manufactured by Samsung as well, may have been unjustified, Apple delivered a show using that hardware that competitors couldn't really match for quite some time. Who cares about the marketing tactics if in the end, the product experience is virtually unmatched?

NVidia on the other hand has a bit of a problem. When I see the name NVidia, the GeForce brand pops into my head - and that is exactly what they want. But Tegra 2 doesn't remind me of a GeForce at all.
 

Serpico

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Same here, shocked. But the bile of giving a nod to apple is mitigated by the fact that the heavy lifting here was done by that PowerVR chip.

Sweet revenge for lasting so long after being ousted in the graphics market by the likes of nvidia and ati and now beating them in a different graphics arena.

I agree, except that there's no bile here at all. Apple makes some really nice stuff. :D
 

Serpico

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NVidia on the other hand has a bit of a problem. When I see the name NVidia, the GeForce brand pops into my head - and that is exactly what they want. But Tegra 2 doesn't remind me of a GeForce at all.

Haha, perfect.

Oh man are they getting screwed right now. First they got squeezed out of integrated GPUs by Intel, now they're way behind in mobile SoCs. Good thing their desktop GPUs are good for now, but the hardcore market for graphics cards (one that I am completely a enthusiastically a part of) keeps getting smaller and smaller. If they lose the low end GPU market for whatever reason, then they're really in trouble.
 

Trimlock

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Haha, perfect.

Oh man are they getting screwed right now. First they got squeezed out of integrated GPUs by Intel, now they're way behind in mobile SoCs. Good thing their desktop GPUs are good for now, but the hardcore market for graphics cards (one that I am completely a enthusiastically a part of) keeps getting smaller and smaller. If they lose the low end GPU market for whatever reason, then they're really in trouble.

AMD has had the low end GPU market cornered for a while now. Nvidia has shown almost zero interest in representing what is most likely the hottest spot for GPU's. Granted you ride on the hype you have the fastest GPU out so your slowest should better then the competitions slowest right?

Regardless, right now Nvidia is the best competitor right now to the PowerVR. In all respects it can be better but in a world of limited modding or head room it isn't right now, which is too sad because I still have a lot of respect for that company and they can easily beat this segment.

I still use my AGP Ti4600 128meg Gainward in one of my PC's.
 

note235

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This is definitely interesting
I hear a lot of people say that the that iPad has 33% less but if you do the math its Around 23.4% or something and if you scale that linearly in the best situation the Xoom is still trounced
Apple did well on the iPad 2, thats the honest thing right there.
---Less pixels: true but doesnt explain the big difference even IF the difference was accounted for
--The iPad 2 is dynamically clocked and I've seen most reports at .9GHz which is nice compared to the Xoom
I'd like to see iPhone 5 Vs. Atrix 4G
 

tybert7

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I agree, except that there's no bile here at all. Apple makes some really nice stuff. :D

My bile @ apple is the bile of a Frank Grimes for Homer Simpson when Homer seems to walk on water while doing relatively nothing for it.


frankgrimes.gif
 

Serpico

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My bile @ apple is the bile of a Frank Grimes for Homer Simpson when Homer seems to walk on water while doing relatively nothing for it.

Hilarious. :D

But seriously, don't hate on Apple for executing as well as they do, be mad at other companies for fucking up repeatedly and totally not getting the point. If it was so easy then other companies would have already done it sooner instead of imitating, and somehow still not getting it.

Penny Arcade of all places really nailed the issue: http://www.penny-arcade.com/2010/1/22/

Money quote:

It's got to be so annoying to compete with Apple, at anything really, because it's not like they're doing something fucking crazy. Everybody's had these ideas before. The difference, and this is grim if you are a competitor, but the difference is that everyone else spends a lot of time (and often, money) determining why those things aren't possible. And then it comes out, for real, only you didn't make it. Some other guys did. And when you come out with what is (on paper) a better version of the same thing, maybe even multiple times over, it's too late. You made a "product" to compete with their "product," tastefully arranging your regiment, only to discover that they hadn't made a product at all - they made a narrative. A statement about how technology should interface with a life.

I'm not saying this to be mean, or get my kicks, or to engage in psychic vampirism. Competing with these fucking people must be a genuinely harrowing state of affairs.
 

Verge

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I take this with a grain of salt until numbers for the 542MP2 on android are released. Should there be a problem, NO. But you never know, very unscientific of anandtech IMO.
 

Aurelius

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I take this with a grain of salt until numbers for the 542MP2 on android are released. Should there be a problem, NO. But you never know, very unscientific of anandtech IMO.

They're somewhat trapped, in practice: just like with notebooks, you can't do a one-for-one comparison because you can't mix-and-match the components like you can in a desktop.

Besides, you can still blame Google here. Notice how every Android 3.0 tablet so far (Xoom, Galaxy Tab 10.1 and 8.9, Optimus Pad) is using a Tegra 2, even from companies like Samsung that hate using someone else's processor? That's because it effectively became the reference chip for Android 3.0 due to the rush to compete with Apple. You might not see a faster Android 3.0 tablet for months.

And just like in notebooks, it doesn't matter what's theoretically better, it matters what you can actually get. RIM learned that the hard way by bragging about the PlayBook beating the iPad for half a year only to lose all its advantage because it wasn't shipping anything.
 

/rant/

Limp Gawd
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Notice how every Android 3.0 tablet so far (Xoom, Galaxy Tab 10.1 and 8.9, Optimus Pad) is using a Tegra 2, even from companies like Samsung that hate using someone else's processor? That's because it effectively became the reference chip for Android 3.0 due to the rush to compete with Apple. You might not see a faster Android 3.0 tablet for months.
That is exactly what I am worried about. Google's Android OS is clearly the underdog in the tablet market, and I feel it is crucial to place something better than the iPad in the market. That includes both hard- and software.

I see that happening on the software front as iOS essentially still is an OS for an iPod Touch while Honeycomb seems to have evolved into a proper tablet computer OS (as far as we can tell at the moment, there won't be a single phone that will actually use Honeycomb; instead, we will see a leap directly from Gingerbread to Ice Cream Android).

Who knows, HTC is going another route. Maybe they'll provide us with a Honeycomb dual core Snapdragon, Adreno 220 tablet when the time is right and the competitors are crushed by Apple. Let's hope. :eek:
 

Aurelius

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That is exactly what I am worried about. Google's Android OS is clearly the underdog in the tablet market, and I feel it is crucial to place something better than the iPad in the market. That includes both hard- and software.

I see that happening on the software front as iOS essentially still is an OS for an iPod Touch while Honeycomb seems to have evolved into a proper tablet computer OS (as far as we can tell at the moment, there won't be a single phone that will actually use Honeycomb; instead, we will see a leap directly from Gingerbread to Ice Cream Android).

Who knows, HTC is going another route. Maybe they'll provide us with a Honeycomb dual core Snapdragon, Adreno 220 tablet when the time is right and the competitors are crushed by Apple. Let's hope. :eek:

I somewhat disagree on iOS just being a supersized iPod. Having used both, Android 3.0's true optimization is that notification bar. The OS is somewhat bipolar, because you're constantly going between the top and bottom bars, and the home screen is still basically the Android 2.x screen writ large.

Also, I would say iOS on the iPad does portrait ratio much better; try Gmail on a Xoom and it crowds out a lot of the detail, while the iPad is more balanced. Almost literally, too: the 16:10 ratio is a bit top-heavy when you're holding it.

If there's a real competitor so far, it's the HP TouchPad -- no joke. Tablet optimized, real multitasking, but the company making the hardware is also designing the OS and knows how to add in special features.
 

argor

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I take this with a grain of salt until numbers for the 542MP2 on android are released. Should there be a problem, NO. But you never know, very unscientific of anandtech IMO.
well anyone that follows embed gpu nous
that on paper and in reality powervr sgx543 is simple more capable gpu than the gpu in tegra 2

for example powervr sgx543 supports opencl while the gpu in tegra 2 don’t
 

/rant/

Limp Gawd
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Actually, the iPad (WiFi only, 16 GB storage) seems to be a pretty sweet deal right now. It is so tempting it almost makes me sad :D

Why can't the competitors be competitive?
 

Cali3350

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Actually, the iPad (WiFi only, 16 GB storage) seems to be a pretty sweet deal right now. It is so tempting it almost makes me sad :D

Why can't the competitors be competitive?

Because Apple orders and builds iPads at the 10's of millions of scale because they know they will sell them, which allows them to order components at the 10's of millions of scale. because they know they will use them. Noone else can.
 

/rant/

Limp Gawd
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I don't say they have to be competitive with price, but they can go the hardware route. Like in the first half of 2010, when the iPhone 3GS got practically crushed by better phones - and I know many people who switched.

It would be a high risk move, but so was Android in the early days. But instead of risk takers, we get nothing in most counties. Where I am, Motorola has left many years ago. Switzerland isn't even considered an official market for the Xoom, which of course means you can't get it on contract and retail prices for imports is > $1000.

Too risky? :eek:
 

/rant/

Limp Gawd
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Sorry for thread necromancy, but...Motorola Xoom quad core for back to school?

Nvidia reportedly said to ship Kel-El in August. Our sources suggest that Motorola plans to ship its new tablet around back to school time, and with this specification, this tablet can make a stand against iPad 2.

I know it's the same fud but it doesn't seem so unrealistic, does it?
 

pxc

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That would be a world record of ARM chip release to product launch, ever. :p Next year is more likely for a new Xoom or anything else built around Kal-El. Product introductions at CES 2012, blah blah blah.

I'm still waiting for the impact of "these non-iPad tablets aren't selling well at all". Thank google for mitigating the disaster by holding back Honeycomb source code for the foreseeable future. Only specific licensees are getting it and no one can seriously call it an open OS anymore.
 

YeuEmMaiMai

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I think AMD's new FUSION setup could be used nicely in a tablet and it would pretty much pwn anything in that segment right now......
 

pxc

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Too bad that at "pwn" frequencies Bobcat uses 18W, where tablets need a 5W max processor/gpu to get minimally decent battery life. Even 5W is iffy.

At 8W-ish (Brazos), CPU performance is just OK and of course the GPU runs rings around both GMA 600 and GMA 3150 (GMA 950). Next year AMD should have something more suitable for the space. I have seen at least one Brazos tablet announced (using a lower powered model, 5W IIRC), but battery life will still likely be very poor, just as bad as a similar TDP Atom tablets (which have all pretty much been failures). Battery life is as important as having a suitable tablet OS, which Windows is not, and I say that as a Windows 7 tablet PC owner. The idea sounds great, but it really isn't. :p
 

YeuEmMaiMai

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^if you want your tablet to be able to actually run decent amts of software at the same time, you are going to have to trade power for performance......only reason an ipad runs smoothly is because it's software load is pretty light

amd's solution would work great in something like a slate running windows where you can have access to all of your office apps, e-mail, web, etc.....all at the same time.

I have played around with the dell inspiron duo and the relatively slow performance and memory limitations of the platform are readily appearant......
 

heatlesssun

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but battery life will still likely be very poor, just as bad as a similar TDP Atom tablets (which have all pretty much been failures). Battery life is as important as having a suitable tablet OS, which Windows is not, and I say that as a Windows 7 tablet PC owner. The idea sounds great, but it really isn't. :p

While not selling in numbers anywhere in the same league as the iPad and the more popular Android devices HP and Asus are selling every last 500 and EP121 they can make and for PC OEM devices these devices seem selling very well especially considering their prices.

The user reviews for the EP121 on Amazon are through the roof: http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Slate-EP...iewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

Yes the battery life is poor on the EP121 compared to mobile OS devices but windows 7 works VERY well on this puppy. It's simply an incredibly functional machine, basically a touchscreen computer versus a touchscreen phone. There are about a half-dozen members on this forum beside me that think the EP121 is a compelling machine in spite of its battery life.
 

jordan12

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So my question after reading through this thread is this:



I always viewed the android OS as open source, like Unix. But ever since the Honeycomb 3.0 has been mentioned, it seems that open source is not the right word to describe it.

So I am correct?
 

dr.stevil

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So my question after reading through this thread is this:



I always viewed the android OS as open source, like Unix. But ever since the Honeycomb 3.0 has been mentioned, it seems that open source is not the right word to describe it.

So I am correct?

afaik, they're releasing the source code eventually, just not right away...
 

Trimlock

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So my question after reading through this thread is this:



I always viewed the android OS as open source, like Unix. But ever since the Honeycomb 3.0 has been mentioned, it seems that open source is not the right word to describe it.

So I am correct?

I think its for the sole purpose of getting some unique'ness to the tablets coming out in its infancy. They wanted the Honeycomb OS to be only accessible through these devices, soon though the code will be released as they always do.
 

argor

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So my question after reading through this thread is this:



I always viewed the android OS as open source, like Unix. But ever since the Honeycomb 3.0 has been mentioned, it seems that open source is not the right word to describe it.

So I am correct?
the linux kernel and some of the libarys are gpl so google has released the sources code for them but there are also some library´s made by google it has not released source code for Honeycomb
and also there are core aps that are close source like google maps
 

rflcptr

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While not selling in numbers anywhere in the same league as the iPad and the more popular Android devices HP and Asus are selling every last 500 and EP121 they can make and for PC OEM devices these devices seem selling very well especially considering their prices.

The user reviews for the EP121 on Amazon are through the roof: http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Slate-EP...iewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

Yes the battery life is poor on the EP121 compared to mobile OS devices but windows 7 works VERY well on this puppy. It's simply an incredibly functional machine, basically a touchscreen computer versus a touchscreen phone. There are about a half-dozen members on this forum beside me that think the EP121 is a compelling machine in spite of its battery life.

Obligatory "I like to touch Windows" post fulfilled.
 
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