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Intel’s Unveils 7th Gen Intel Core Processor

Zarathustra[H] said:
I'm happy with h264 for now. I'd embrace h265 full force, but in my HTPC setup I've had problems with Intel's VAAPI drivers, so I bought low end Nvidia GT720 GPU's for now. Once a cheap low end version of Nvidias GPU's with h265 support comes out, I'll consider bumping them up, but for now h265 support is only in the mid to high end parts.

When the time comes though, I'm not sure I'd transcode existing ripped files. I'd probably want to go back and reencode from the source material, for the sake of quality.
Click to expand...

While 265 does indeed improve compression and reduce thinks like macro blocking on low light levels, it suffers in other areas. It is less sensitive to noise which might actually be legitimate detail. So under h265, some details might be blurred out next to h264.
 
my standard measurement is 24 hr of nonstop movie playback (h264 files) at medium to low brightness. a Lenovo yoga 2 with baytrail can do that for 14 hrs. so we still have some way to go.
 
Bandalo said:
The newer Dell Latitudes are still pretty solid machines. You can swap batteries without a screwdriver. Remove two screws and you can replace RAM, HDDs (still have a 2.5" AND an mSATA or M.2 slot), and change out the wifi card. Plus if you get them on the Dell Outlet you can get "refurbished" brand new, unopened laptops returned by corporate customers for dirt cheap.
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Except some of the newer latitudes don't come with a DVD drive and you have to remove the bottom panel just to replace the drive, memory or even the battery :(
But at least they are lighter and thinner :rolleyes:
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Well, note how he said "effective" life.

I don't think it's as far off as you think.
Click to expand...

I think it's quite far away. x86 is at a disadvantage on tablets. x86 tablets would need a huge assist from far more power efficient displays than we have today.

Right now, if you want a 24 hour tablet, you buy an iPad Pro.
 
nutzo said:
Except some of the newer latitudes don't come with a DVD drive and you have to remove the bottom panel just to replace the drive, memory or even the battery :(
But at least they are lighter and thinner :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

True, but I haven't really needed a DVD or CD drive in a while. On those rare occasions when I do, I have a USB one. I'd rather not pay (and have the space taken up) in a laptop for something I only need once or twice a year.

My Latitude (e74xx I think) can drop the battery with just a thumb-switch on the bottom of the machine. And after that, you remove two screws and you can get to the drive bays and memory. I swapped in a new LCD to replace the stock one that broke and only needed to remove 4 screws I think. Piece of cake. I don't like the huge work-station sized laptops, nor do I like the uber-thin-and-light, but the mid-range Latitudes are perfect IMO.
 
Terpfen said:
I think it's quite far away. x86 is at a disadvantage on tablets. x86 tablets would need a huge assist from far more power efficient displays than we have today.

Right now, if you want a 24 hour tablet, you buy an iPad Pro.
Click to expand...

An iPad Pro isn't a 24 hour tablet, not even remotely close.

Until screens improve, everything else could for the sake of argument all use 0 watt and you still wouldn't hit 24 hours.
 
sboucher said:
That Intel baked DRM protection reeks of the digital audio watermarking I ran into with my PS3 back in the day...
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What common commercial processors don't support DRM? I guess you meant "backed", and if including support is backing it, pretty much all are guilty of the same thing. Yes, that includes ARM, MIPS, Intel, AMD, Samsung, Qualcomm, Apple and every GPU core or chip maker.

I don't really get the complaint in general. HDCP (I think this is specifically what you're complaining about since Intel created it) can be annoying when hardware doesn't support it on one end, or for various other issues, but it usually works transparently. The alternative is to not support it, and simply not be able to play back certain content without hacking around it (if possible).
 
Shintai said:
An iPad Pro isn't a 24 hour tablet, not even remotely close.

Until screens improve, everything else could for the sake of argument all use 0 watt and you still wouldn't hit 24 hours.
Click to expand...
I think 24 hours will come mostly as a result of increases in energy density for batteries.

Some specialized LCD and OLED displays can already sip power on static images, but there's little getting around switching state quickly in each element when things change on the screen. For useful displays used in laptops and tablets, I don't think there's more than incremental efficiencies that can be improved with current technologies.

Despite the slow progress on battery efficiently improvements, it's had relatively steady progress and is more likely to markedly improve in a reasonable period of time than a radical new display technology being ready for mass production and priced competitively with dirt cheap LCDs.
 
ir0nw0lf said:
And here it comes, this is going to have people up in arms:

This video engine also enforces anti-piracy DRM protections as required by the major studios. Hollywood bosses didn't want to stream 4K ultra high-def content from online clouds without mechanisms in place to thwart casual rippers, and so Intel gave the entertainment giants what they wanted.

"There are hardware-based protection mechanisms to make the studios comfortable with sharing high-quality content to PCs for the first time," said Regis.
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Well I'm not comfortable with DRM. So that means I'm not paying for their content. Clearly a win for them. This is like going to the supermarket and then they strip you at the entrance so you can't sneak out anything. I certainly won't be shopping at a place like that.

I also hold a very firm view about video content. If I can't save it for later viewing, then it might as well not exist. And if it doesn't exist I'm not paying for it. But I'm happy to support the content providers that allow me to save their content on my PC for later viewing at my convenience.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Yep. People crave thin devices, and the easiest way to make a device thinner is to use all of the power savings you get in a new generation of chip, to shrink the battery and keep the battery life the same.

If you think about it, laptops today perform about the same as they did almost 10 years ago, but MAN have they gotten thinner.

I could defend my home with my old Dell Latitudes. With my current shiny HP folio thing? No way. It would probably shatter if looked at wrong.

If I were buying a laptop for myself, I'd still go with one of the older Dell Latitude E series. They were a little thicker, but had decent screens, perform just as well as the modern machines, and I can replace drives and RAM almost as I see fit. There are even aftermarket things that can go in the optical bay if you -like me - don't use CD's/DVD's anymore.
Click to expand...

Even the super high end laptops of 10 years ago, do not perform anywhere close to the newer laptops.

10 years ago (2006), they were just switching to Core2 Duo. Go ahead and try to use one of those today and see how sucky it is, even compared to the first gen i5 and i7 laptops.

And the first gen i5 and i7 powered laptops were released in 2010. So anything before then is going to get absolutely decimated by today's laptops. And no, I am not including bottom barrel junk that should never be sold in the first place.

The second gen i5 and i7 laptops are really not that far behind as far as user experience goes for basic tasks when compared to today's laptops. However, the newer stuff blows it away if you are doing anything that is CPU or GPU intensive.
 
nutzo said:
Except some of the newer latitudes don't come with a DVD drive and you have to remove the bottom panel just to replace the drive, memory or even the battery :(
But at least they are lighter and thinner :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yeah, the e7x70 and even the Precision M3510 doesn't have an optical drive.

But they are definitely a lot lighter and thinner. My users like them a lot because of that.

Me, I like having more options.. but when your users complain about how heavy a 5lb laptop is what are you going to do? Maybe they need to hit the gym, but I doubt corporate would go for that.
 
cyclone3d said:
Yeah, the e7x70 and even the Precision M3510 doesn't have an optical drive.

But they are definitely a lot lighter and thinner. My users like them a lot because of that.

Me, I like having more options.. but when your users complain about how heavy a 5lb laptop is what are you going to do? Maybe they need to hit the gym, but I doubt corporate would go for that.
Click to expand...


Thinner and lighter has limits...If you can get it without sacrificing performance or battery life, go for it. When you have to give up everything just to save 0.5lbs and 0.1cm of thickness, then screw it. I think the Dell's e7xxx range struck a good balance for what I want, but I'm sure there's others out there.
 
cyclone3d said:
Yeah, the e7x70 and even the Precision M3510 doesn't have an optical drive.

But they are definitely a lot lighter and thinner. My users like them a lot because of that.

Me, I like having more options.. but when your users complain about how heavy a 5lb laptop is what are you going to do? Maybe they need to hit the gym, but I doubt corporate would go for that.
Click to expand...
You don't need an optical drive in a laptop. Hell you don't need an optical drive in a desktop either nowadays. And I didn't have one for at least 2 years in mine. I have an external drive, that I used maybe twice in that time.

I don't really care about weight. Anything below 17" is a nightmare to work with. Too small screen, which either means too little letters or too little desktop area. I regret asking for a 15 laptop for increased mobility. I should've sticked to the familiar 17" size. I also use gaming laptops for work, as those seem to offer the most bang for the buck when it comes to CPU/GPU power.
 
cyclone3d said:
Even the super high end laptops of 10 years ago, do not perform anywhere close to the newer laptops.

10 years ago (2006), they were just switching to Core2 Duo. Go ahead and try to use one of those today and see how sucky it is, even compared to the first gen i5 and i7 laptops.

And the first gen i5 and i7 powered laptops were released in 2010. So anything before then is going to get absolutely decimated by today's laptops. And no, I am not including bottom barrel junk that should never be sold in the first place.

The second gen i5 and i7 laptops are really not that far behind as far as user experience goes for basic tasks when compared to today's laptops. However, the newer stuff blows it away if you are doing anything that is CPU or GPU intensive.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

By similar performance, I mean, can you do what typical laptop users do (web browser, ms office, and a handful of other light things) and not notice a difference, and the answer is, yes you can.

Stick some extra ram and an SSD in one of those core2duo laptops and watch them fly for what average people do.

My sister is still on her old 32 bit Pentium M laptop for crying out loud.

After I stuck an SSD and maxed out the RAM on it she sees no reason to upgrade. (I don't know how she lives with so little ram though)


The point however is that as long as you have a 64bit chip and can add sufficient ram and an SSD, for the workloads that most people use their laptops for, the differences are indistinguishable except for thickness and weight.
 
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ir0nw0lf said:
And here it comes, this is going to have people up in arms:
Click to expand...
Windows 10 thing. Don't care. ;)

(I read the last anti-DRM post as a general complaint due to confused context. 4K streaming DRM isn't only an Intel thing.)

Seriously, this is a lock down for 4K content under Windows 10, and Nvidia's Pascal was the first hardware to support PlayReady 3.0 DRM. While the RX 480 doesn't (currently) have PlayReady 3.0 certification, I'll eat a hobo's crusty hat if AMD doesn't include it either in current Polaris GPUs or in the next update of APUs and GPUs. It's a checkbox feature and virtually all new GPUs and IGPs supporting Windows 10 will include PlayReady 3.0 support.

If someone doesn't run Windows 10, or doesn't care to purchase streaming 4K content protected by PlayReady 3.0 on Windows 10, this is a big nothing*. As others have pointed out, without DRM, 4K streaming media wasn't available for PCs. It's not like you can just hold your breath and change it. 4K streaming media is already available to the masses through other locked down, DRM protected devices. PC support is a minor consideration.

* considering it's Win10, disabling the related services may or may not actually completely disable the feature, and MS may just re-enable the services during a who-knows-what-this-does OS update.
 
pxc said:
If someone doesn't run Windows 10, or doesn't care to purchase streaming 4K content protected by PlayReady 3.0 on Windows 10, this is a big nothing. As others have pointed out, without DRM, 4K streaming media wasn't available for PCs. It's not like you can just hold your breath and change it. 4K streaming media is already available to the masses through other locked down, DRM protected devices. PC support is a minor consideration.
Click to expand...

Point taken.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I disagree.

By similar performance, I mean, can you do what typical laptop users do (web browser, ms office, and a handful of other light things) and not notice a difference, and the answer is, yes you can.

Stick some extra ram and an SSD in one of those core2duo laptops and watch them fly for what average people do.

My sister is still on her old 32 bit Pentium M laptop for crying out loud.

After I stuck an SSD and maxed out the RAM on it she sees no reason to upgrade. (I don't know how she lives with so little ram though)


The point however is that as long as you have a 64bit chip and can add sufficient ram and an SSD, for the workloads that most people use their laptops for, the differences are indistinguishable except for thickness and weight.
Click to expand...

Dunno, I still have a few 2.8Ghz C2D laptops laying around. Even upgraded with an SSD and 4GB RAM, they are still as slow as a glacier when compared to a newer laptop, even for general use stuff.

Sure, they are going to be "fast enough" for some people.. but I can't stand the slowness anymore.

The point is, the C2D laptops are WAAAAAAAY slower than newer laptops, not the fact that some people think that a C2D laptop is fast enough for what they use it for.
 
Just skimmed through Anandtech's Kaby Lake article. The fact that Kaby Lake is releasing mobile-first just seals the deal for me.

I'll be buying a 6700k from Silicon Lottery next week.
 
So, finally upgrade from the 2600K? Or just keep looking at the 6800k which was looking like the best option right now... Honestly, though, the 2600k still works extremely well at 4.4HGz, so if not for the aging MB, I wouldn't even bother looking yet even now... Or just wait until next year... decisions decisions. I just wish I would see some real change that is worthwhile, and DRM isn't it.
 
So are the stories of Microsoft's saying that Kaby Lake will only support Windows 10 Ver. 1511, Anniversary, and in the future Redstone 1 and 2 true? And AMD's forthcoming ZEN cpu will be the same? Does Apple have to worry for OS X? I guess it's time to seriously move to Linux or BSD,
 
Cantroy said:
So, finally upgrade from the 2600K? Or just keep looking at the 6800k which was looking like the best option right now... Honestly, though, the 2600k still works extremely well at 4.4HGz, so if not for the aging MB, I wouldn't even bother looking yet even now... Or just wait until next year... decisions decisions. I just wish I would see some real change that is worthwhile, and DRM isn't it.
Click to expand...

I think the Sandy Bridge era is past. Sandy and Ivy CPUs can't keep up a solid minimum FPS anymore. Yes, your average FPS is within range of a Skylake CPU, but your minimum FPS drop through the floor.

More consistent FPS and a much better chipset are reasons enough for me to upgrade.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Well, note how he said "effective" life.
I don't think it's as far off as you think.
24h of effective use Doesn't necessarily mean 24 hours of use.
Anyway, we aren't at full 24 hour use yet, but I ust don't think we are as far off as you think. You could probably even do it today if you were willing to put up with the bulk of one of those battery expanders, and use a low power Atom machine.
Click to expand...

I had one of those Asus Transformer Windows 8 tablets for a short while. The battery easily could go for 10 hours screen on time. At the expense of nearly double the weight and thickness, yes, I would have opted for it to have a near 24 hour battery.

The problem is (like suggested above thread) is that every time there's a new screen or cpu that uses less power than before... OEMs keep trimming the battery capacity as well.
 
Terpfen said:
I think the Sandy Bridge era is past. Sandy and Ivy CPUs can't keep up a solid minimum FPS anymore. Yes, your average FPS is within range of a Skylake CPU, but your minimum FPS drop through the floor.

More consistent FPS and a much better chipset are reasons enough for me to upgrade.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about your own system? Could it be that the RAM throughput is so horrible compared to the newer setups or the quad channel setups that it is having issues with minimum frame rates?

Are you overclocking at all (your rig in sig)? I would also definitely try much faster RAM.
 
cyclone3d said:
Are you talking about your own system? Could it be that the RAM throughput is so horrible compared to the newer setups or the quad channel setups that it is having issues with minimum frame rates?

Are you overclocking at all (your rig in sig)? I would also definitely try much faster RAM.
Click to expand...

I'm speaking in general. Comparison benchmarks between each generation of CPU since Sandy shows that Sandy and Ivy, when OC'ed, keep pace with Skylake at average FPS, but drop off a cliff when looking at minimum FPS. DDR3 doesn't show much difference between MHz tiers; DDR4 is at least slightly sensitive to MHz.

This is not a personal system issue. My system is OC'ed to 4.4 GHz. This is [H], some things should just go without saying.
 
cyclone3d said:
Dunno, I still have a few 2.8Ghz C2D laptops laying around. Even upgraded with an SSD and 4GB RAM, they are still as slow as a glacier when compared to a newer laptop, even for general use stuff.

Sure, they are going to be "fast enough" for some people.. but I can't stand the slowness anymore.

The point is, the C2D laptops are WAAAAAAAY slower than newer laptops, not the fact that some people think that a C2D laptop is fast enough for what they use it for.
Click to expand...

Really? That's surprising.

Maybe I'm old and can no longer pick up on response time changes, but I honestly can't tell the difference between the computer in my office (Some thin client Core2Quad), the rigs in my sig (reasonably powerful modern machines) and the crazy 18 core Xeons we have in the lab.

As long as they all have an SSD and 4gigs of ram, the general windows experience is all the same to me (office, chrome, and excel).
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I disagree.

By similar performance, I mean, can you do what typical laptop users do (web browser, ms office, and a handful of other light things) and not notice a difference, and the answer is, yes you can.

Stick some extra ram and an SSD in one of those core2duo laptops and watch them fly for what average people do.

My sister is still on her old 32 bit Pentium M laptop for crying out loud.

After I stuck an SSD and maxed out the RAM on it she sees no reason to upgrade. (I don't know how she lives with so little ram though)


The point however is that as long as you have a 64bit chip and can add sufficient ram and an SSD, for the workloads that most people use their laptops for, the differences are indistinguishable except for thickness and weight.
Click to expand...


Yup - I still use a C2D 2.0GHZ/2GB ram 128Gb SSD/XP Mg Chassis laptop as my travel whore. I think a 12" 16:10 and only 1.8Kg for a mid 2000s laptop. Does everything I need to do just fine. Just tears on 720p videos, that's all. Battery life sucks if doing anything above light load but for what it is and how I use it - I don't care.
Hell I even use premiere pro and Paintshop Pro on it for smaller stuff... It's pretty snappy as long as you're not pegging the ram in FFX also.
 
TechLarry said:
There hasn't been a real, true reason to upgrade since the i920 days. Why is this different?
Click to expand...

Chipset features and more stable FPS. The "no reason to upgrade" meme has one foot in the grave, particularly for pre-Sandy Bridge owners.
 
Terpfen said:
Chipset features and more stable FPS. The "no reason to upgrade" meme has one foot in the grave, particularly for pre-Sandy Bridge owners.
Click to expand...

An example of this would be something like the older Athlon II and Phenom II systems. Everything is so I/O bound it's ridiculous. So while you have enough CPU performance... the throughput on everything pretty much blows.
 
TechLarry said:
There hasn't been a real, true reason to upgrade since the i920 days. Why is this different?
Click to expand...

Don't necessarily disagree. Felt like I ripped out part of my soul when I sold off the X58. Moved to Z87 and it still took me about 2 weeks to get over X58. But, the Z87 has performed faster and it did come with SATA6 and USB3. X58 is fond memory now.

I'll have no such nostalgia moving to Z270 from Z87. It's been good, but no feelings lost either.
 
I feel like I am now in the position of all the 2600K owners, lol. My 4790K is good enough dammit! I guess I'll wait until the XPoint stuff is more common and then finally upgrade the whole setup.
 
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