Intel No-Show At Spring Processor Forum

[Elios]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD#8086.2C_80286.2C_80386.2C_Am486
"In February 1982, AMD signed a contract with Intel, becoming a licensed second-source manufacturer of 8086 and 8088 processors. "

and wiki is never wrong

"On December 30, 1994 the Supreme Court of California finally formally denied AMD rights to use the i386's microcode. Afterwards AMD and Intel concluded an agreement, the details of which remain largely secret, which gave AMD the right to produce and sell microprocessors containing the microcodes of Intel 286, 386, and 486. The agreement appears to allow for full cross-licensing of patents and some copyrights, allowing each partner to use the other's technological innovations without charge."

 

[MrWizard6600]

Are you like the Karl Rove of computer history? Because This Smells Like Bullshit.

see the post above me

no hes not lieing, well about the AMD and intel part, they were both, at one point, one and the same company.

 

[$BangforThe$]

If Intel did not get a payoff from 'taking the risk' they would not. Trust me, neither Intel nor AMD is run by engineers. Companies make money. By taking a risk you have a chance to make more money, but take the chance to lose more as well.

Where would Intel be without AMD? - P4's would be ruling the world and you'd be paying $4k for each of them. Please, economics 101 dictates that competition is good for the business, so does common sense.

This is a very good question
Where would Intel be without AMD? - P4's would be ruling the world and you'd be paying $4k for each of them. Please, economics 101 dictates that competition is good for the business, so does common sense

If the pc would have come out 2 losey years latter computing and home computers would be further evolved than they are now . 64 bit computing would be further along than it is presently and most of the blotware would be absent from the scene. Maybe just maybe MS wouldn't be running the PC world.

 

[mwarps]

see the post above me

no hes not lieing, well about the AMD and intel part, they were both, at one point, one and the same company.

Not true. Just because you license technology, it does not make you the same company. Wow. Looks like we have other factors thrown into the mix now.

 

[$BangforThe$]

Reverse engineering is legal.
http://www.chillingeffects.org/reverse/faq.cgi#QID195

see also:
http://www.law.uconn.edu/homes/swilf/ip/cases/kewan.htm

So please, stop saying that AMD is stealing stuff, it is getting rather silly at this point.

In that case I can't wait to see what comes out of China in the next three years. I know anaylst are saying in 2 years China will be the no2 maker of cpu's

 

[Elios]

In that case I can't wait to see what comes out of China in the next three years. I know anaylst are saying in 2 years China will be the no2 maker of cpu's

the AMD Intel deal is an oddity in the IT world i dont think any thing like it will ever happen again and had it not happend AMD would of gone the way of Cyrx though VIA is still hanging on with lowpower CPUs

 

[$BangforThe$]

This was an agreement to manufacture parts only not to create an exact copy and sell under their own name.

"In February 1982, AMD signed a contract with Intel, becoming a licensed second-source manufacturer of 8086 and 8088 processors

 

[drizzt81]

If the pc would have come out 2 losey years latter computing and home computers would be further evolved than they are now . 64 bit computing would be further along than it is presently and most of the blotware would be absent from the scene. Maybe just maybe MS wouldn't be running the PC world.

two what years?
Surely, you do not believe that the absence of competition is a climate facilitating innovation, do you?
Then again, maybe your point is that if there were no AMD, there would be another company, which could theoretically have a better product than both AMD and Intel.

Bottom line: if you look at just about anything in the world, it is clear that competition is a good thing, it leads to more innovation, since the parties involved need to make sure that they 'stay on top' and anticipate the competitors moves.

 

[mwarps]

This was an agreement to manufacture parts only not to create an exact copy and sell under their own name.

"In February 1982, AMD signed a contract with Intel, becoming a licensed second-source manufacturer of 8086 and 8088 processors

You might want to read the legal document before you *again* go making claims that may be precisely wrong. I'm not going to countermand you, but I'm just suggesting.

 

[$BangforThe$]

the AMD Intel deal is an oddity in the IT world i dont think any thing like it will ever happen again and had it not happend AMD would of gone the way of Cyrx though VIA is still hanging on with lowpower CPUs

The Fact is the US courts made a bad decision that sets premise . If China were to reverse engineer Conroe . A world court would have to make a decision . Since the US courts set premise in the AMD Intel case China would likely win based on that premise

Therewas more than 1 lawsuite being very selective here.

 

[Jason711]

via bought cyrix.

 

[$BangforThe$]

You might want to read the legal document before you *again* go making claims that may be precisely wrong. I'm not going to countermand you, but I'm just suggesting.

How can a read what the courts have set up so that we can't read


On December 30, 1994 the Supreme Court of California finally formally denied AMD rights to use the i386's microcode. Afterwards AMD and Intel concluded an agreement, the details of which remain largely secret,

 

[BigMacAttack]

via bought cyrix.

I always wondered what happened to Cyrix. I bought my wife a Cyrix based laptop years ago. It was a nice little system.

 

[$BangforThe$]

I won't even go into the reverse engineering of a crashed alien spaceship.

 

[mwarps]

How can a read what the courts have set up so that we can't read


On December 30, 1994 the Supreme Court of California finally formally denied AMD rights to use the i386's microcode. Afterwards AMD and Intel concluded an agreement, the details of which remain largely secret,

Different agreement, dude. We were talking about something else.

Your post (from the wiki):

"In February 1982, AMD signed a contract with Intel, becoming a licensed second-source manufacturer of 8086 and 8088 processors"

Your statement about that contract:

This was an agreement to manufacture parts only not to create an exact copy and sell under their own name.

Stop trying to dodge. Show me the money!

 

[drizzt81]

The Fact is the US courts made a bad decision that sets premise . If China were to reverse engineer Conroe . A world court would have to make a decision . Since the US courts set premise in the AMD Intel case China would likely win based on that premise

Therewas more than 1 lawsuite being very selective here.

So your point is: reverse engineering is bad? Are you serious?

 

[dr_dirtnap]

I've got no problem with that.... but don't sit there and criticize the companies that take the risks so AMD can use their Tech. Prescott (NOT P4) was a flop.... so was Rambus.... Ask yourself this... but really where would AMD be today without Intel? Where would Intel be without AMD? Serious question.....please answer.

That's an easy answer, AMD would most likely be non-existant without Intel. I am not criticizing Intel. I am just wondering what kind of relationship Intel and AMD has. I would think that Intel gets a some reimbustment for licensing the technology to them. I can't imagine that Intel doesn't get a piece of the pie for every AMD processor sold. I don't think the details of the licensing agreement were ever fully disclosed, but I am sure Intel does not want AMD to go away.

 

[$BangforThe$]

two what years?
Surely, you do not believe that the absence of competition is a climate facilitating innovation, do you?
Then again, maybe your point is that if there were no AMD, there would be another company, which could theoretically have a better product than both AMD and Intel.

Bottom line: if you look at just about anything in the world, it is clear that competition is a good thing, it leads to more innovation, since the parties involved need to make sure that they 'stay on top' and anticipate the competitors moves.

No way I don't believe that at all . the home PC smoothered Innovation. It also set IBM up as a Monoply exit DEC.

Set MS up as a monoply

Apple was the light at the end of the tunnel but was nearly smoothered ALA intel AMD thanks to MS

Than the strangest of things the king of thievies stepped in and saved apple. probabably guilt because he stoled their ideas.

Now Intel is going to make Apple a power house . all this has come full circle now if Jobs had the balls to sell his OS to the pc market the circle would be complete. all this is very recondite. 2 companies I want to see go down in what years I have left are MS and Dell

 

[drizzt81]

No way I don't believe that at all.

Then what was your point asking where we'd be without AMD? Unless you believe that competiton = bad, the question is completely pointless, since you can answer that for yourself.

 

[Donnie27]

two what years?
Surely, you do not believe that the absence of competition is a climate facilitating innovation, do you?
Then again, maybe your point is that if there were no AMD, there would be another company, which could theoretically have a better product than both AMD and Intel.

Bottom line: if you look at just about anything in the world, it is clear that competition is a good thing, it leads to more innovation, since the parties involved need to make sure that they 'stay on top' and anticipate the competitors moves.

The problem comes up when too many folks think Competition is a one-way street. AMD and Intel keeps eachother on their toes, it not either company give a flying flickering f$#@ about any of us LOL! I see crap loads of folks talking as if AMD would do anything differently than Intel when given the chance. It seems as if folks ain't learned a damned thing from X2! AMD's PR doesn't stand for Performance Rate, hell it stands for Price Rate. If price doesn't matter then there's no Frackin' need to PR LOL!

So it seems like BS to be talking about if AMD didn't do whatever Intel would...... A64 traded blows and folks can argue to the Cows come home about Hyperthreading being good or not. But is a fact that AMD matched Intel's prices but when X2 Pimp Slapped P4s, AMD showed they were a business, not a Fan B01's buddy, hell I don't blame them If it weren't for Conroe, X2 prices would go up as well, economics 101. Prices of X2 prior to IDF proves what AMD thinks about its customers.

 

[BigMacAttack]

the home PC smoothered Innovation

I wouldn't say it "smothered" innovation so much as maybe inhibited it somewhat. Let's face it, John Q. Public knows absolutely squat about pc's. So you have to design to the lowest common denominator, trying to make it idiot proof. Unfortunately that is impossible as there will always be an idiot that will frustrate even the most carefully crafted idiot proof device.
You know the types of people I'm talking about. They always ask you to help them fix their computer because they farkled it somehow and haven't the slightest clue as to how to fix it. Computers are not for the faint of heart, nor the timid types who are afraid to experiment and play with them.
As a mass market device I'd say computers and those who design and build them have done a decent job.

 

[MrWizard6600]

Donnie, you are aware that infact PR stands for Public Relations....

no, prices of current X2 processers are high because currently they are the best performance per unit price. even Intel fans agree with me. when Core2 comes out, down goes the price, until that moment, theres no need to lower the price, as currently there the best you can get!

 

[mwarps]

So it seems like BS to be talking about if AMD didn't do whatever Intel would...... A64 traded blows and folks can argue to the Cows come home about Hyperthreading being good or not. But is a fact that AMD matched Intel's prices but when X2 Pimp Slapped P4s, AMD showed they were a business, not a Fan B01's buddy, hell I don't blame them If it weren't for Conroe, X2 prices would go up as well, economics 101. Prices of X2 prior to IDF proves what AMD thinks about its customers.

Damn straight. And intel's prices until July 23 do the exact same for them. Man, you won't miss a chance to get in a dig, will you.

 

[BigMacAttack]

The problem comes up when too many folks think Competition is a one-way street. AMD and Intel keeps eachother on their toes, it not either company give a flying flickering f$#@ about any of us LOL! I see crap loads of folks talking as if AMD would do anything differently than Intel when given the chance. It seems as if folks ain't learned a damned thing from X2! AMD's PR doesn't stand for Performance Rate, hell it stands for Price Rate. If price doesn't matter then there's no Frackin' need to PR LOL!

So it seems like BS to be talking about if AMD didn't do whatever Intel would...... A64 traded blows and folks can argue to the Cows come home about Hyperthreading being good or not. But is a fact that AMD matched Intel's prices but when X2 Pimp Slapped P4s, AMD showed they were a business, not a Fan B01's buddy, hell I don't blame them If it weren't for Conroe, X2 prices would go up as well, economics 101. Prices of X2 prior to IDF proves what AMD thinks about its customers.

AMD, Intel, Big Oil. All businesses charging whatever the demand for their products will support. Notice it wasn't AMD that started the price war - they didn't have to. Intel releases a new architecture and slashes prices to the bone in an efforet to regain market share. That smacks of desperation to me. They didn't have to do that. If Conroe is so superior people would have bought it for twice the money (ok mabye not twice as much - maybe a third more). So now AMD responds. They have to. That's business. Intel is taking a rather reckless course IMO and just displays to me the dire position they are in. Nothing good will come of this price war in the long term. Sure, the consumer will be happy, but at what cost?

 

[$BangforThe$]

Its a front don't you get it they are the same . AMD never made a dime until AMD 64 how can you survive that long in a open market economy with out bankrupt AKA DEC

Its all an illusion . Thats one of the reasons I don't like AMD. there others but not worth talking about its on the personal level.

"On December 30, 1994 the Supreme Court of California finally formally denied AMD rights to use the i386's microcode. Afterwards AMD and Intel concluded an agreement, the details of which remain largely secret, which gave AMD the right to produce and sell microprocessors containing the microcodes of Intel 286, 386, and 486. The agreement appears to allow for full cross-licensing of patents and some copyrights, allowing each partner to use the other's technological innovations without charge."

According to this amd lost. Intel gets big hearted and says lets make a deal.

I am not the brightest bulb in the room but I am not burnt out yet.

 

[$BangforThe$]

AMD, Intel, Big Oil. All businesses charging whatever the demand for their products will support. Notice it wasn't AMD that started the price war - they didn't have to. Intel releases a new architecture and slashes prices to the bone in an efforet to regain market share. That smacks of desperation to me. They didn't have to do that. If Conroe is so superior people would have bought it for twice the money (ok mabye not twice as much - maybe a third more). So now AMD responds. They have to. That's business. Intel is taking a rather reckless course IMO and just displays to me the dire position they are in. Nothing good will come of this price war in the long term. Sure, the consumer will be happy, but at what cost?

Bullshit Intel can manufactor cheaper than AMD because of the 65nm process and capicity. Intel has changed its business model . In Dell commercials you won't see Intel inside any more. Apple will do commercials that say intel inside.

AMD always sold cheaper than Intel till AMD 64

 

[Jason711]

who cares who started the price war... as long as its there, im happy.;

 

[$BangforThe$]

Mutal funds ruin all the fun Get a list of the Top stock holders of IBM INTEL AMD to bad secrets are a comin thing in this country these people can hide behind mutual founds . Stock ownership that is not in street name . You would see the same names at the top of all the list with large holdings.

 

[drizzt81]

Its a front don't you get it they are the same . AMD never made a dime until AMD 64 how can you survive that long in a open market economy with out bankrupt AKA DEC

it's called diversification. Even if AMD did not make money in the CPU market, they may have other products that had a positive cash flow. Also, can you please show some proof (annual reports will do fine) that AMD did not make any money?

Its all an illusion . Thats one of the reasons I don't like AMD.

at least you are honest that you dislike AMD. How about making that clear next time you post an unsubstanciated 'fact' about AMD?

"On December 30, 1994 the Supreme Court of California finally formally denied AMD rights to use the i386's microcode. Afterwards AMD and Intel concluded an agreement, the details of which remain largely secret, which gave AMD the right to produce and sell microprocessors containing the microcodes of Intel 286, 386, and 486. The agreement appears to allow for full cross-licensing of patents and some copyrights, allowing each partner to use the other's technological innovations without charge."

According to this amd lost. Intel gets big hearted and says lets make a deal.

Yes, indeed AMD lost in court. However, please note that we are talking about Intel the company and not Joe Schmoe the individual. Compandies have not heart and even less for their competitor.

Intel, as a comany, is run for profit. While I am no manager and don't have an MBA either, I know sufficiently about companies and how economics ought to work that I can say this with quite som confidence:
One of the most likely scenarios for Intel to enter such a cross-licensing deal is that management saw an opportunity to gain from this financially. Therefore this deal was made to profit the company, and not some 'goodness of the heart' reason.

 

[visaris]

AMD, Intel, Big Oil. All businesses charging whatever the demand for their products will support. Notice it wasn't AMD that started the price war - they didn't have to. Intel releases a new architecture and slashes prices to the bone in an efforet to regain market share. That smacks of desperation to me. They didn't have to do that. If Conroe is so superior people would have bought it for twice the money (ok mabye not twice as much - maybe a third more). So now AMD responds. They have to. That's business. Intel is taking a rather reckless course IMO and just displays to me the dire position they are in. Nothing good will come of this price war in the long term. Sure, the consumer will be happy, but at what cost?

Insightful post.

 

[drizzt81]

Intel has changed its business model .

really? what do they do now? Sell 'computation service'?

AMD always sold cheaper than Intel till AMD 64

Yes, because they wanted to gain market share and due to Intel's stronghold on the market, AMD needed to establish itself as the new player. Doing so by undercutting the market leader is a strategy/ tactic often employed.
Would you buy noname memory if you could get the Micron/ Corsair for cheaper?

 

[drizzt81]

Mutal funds ruin all the fun Get a list of the Top stock holders of IBM INTEL AMD to bad secrets are a comin thing in this country these people can hide behind mutual founds . Stock ownership that is not in street name . You would see the same names at the top of all the list with large holdings.

how does this relate to the current topic at all?

 

[BigMacAttack]

Bullshit Intel can manufactor cheaper than AMD because of the 65nm process and capicity. Intel has changed its business model . In Dell commercials you won't see Intel inside any more. Apple will do commercials that say intel inside.

AMD always sold cheaper than Intel till AMD 64

But if Intel is so huge why didn't they just underprice AMD all along? Surely they have always had the capacity and financial wherewithal to do it all along, so why the huge cuts now? IMO they are desperate to regain market share and prop up their falling stock prices (which by the way rose again today as did AMD's - and AMD's rose almost 3 times more than Intel's).
They didn't need to underprice AMD before because everyone thought they were better (and at the time they probably were way back before A64) and they had the market so they could charge whatever they liked. So if Intel could manufacture for less all along (as you purport due to their sheer size) why have they been ripping off their customer base? Just wondering.

 

[$BangforThe$]

who cares who started the price war... as long as its there, im happy.;

Actually I care I would like to see I list of People that Sold AMD @$40 and compare it to the list that buy intel @ $17 I am talking big money here.

Insider trading is as common as house paint. Only the stupid ones get caught. AKA Martha. Its illegal big deal . Were do you think the Kennedy's got their Money bootlegging . The railroads were built by stealing homesteaders land and murder.

The law in this country is setup to protect the powerful from us. Its noy set up to protect us. AKA the Hormel strike were national guards were used to protect the scabs that took strikers jobs . You cross a pick it line break arm. Its that simple.

 

[drizzt81]

Actually I care I would like to see I list of People that Sold AMD @$40 and compare it to the list that buy intel @ $17 I am talking big money here.

Insider trading is as common as house paint. Only the stupid ones get caught. AKA Martha. Its illegal big deal . Were do you think the Kennedy's got their Money bootlegging . The railroads were built by stealing homesteaders land and murder.

The law in this country is setup to protect the powerful from us. Its noy set up to protect us. AKA the Hormel strike were national guards were used to protect the scabs that took strikers jobs . You cross a pick it line break arm. Its that simple.

once again: What does this have to do with the topic?

 

[BigMacAttack]

C'mon Bang, answer my question, please: "if Intel could manufacture for less all along (as you purport due to their sheer size) why have they been ripping off their customer base? Just wondering."

 

[$BangforThe$]

But if Intel is so huge why didn't they just underprice AMD all along? Surely they have always had the capacity and financial wherewithal to do it all along, so why the huge cuts now? IMO they are desperate to regain market share and prop up their falling stock prices (which by the way rose again today as did AMD's - and AMD's rose almost 3 times more than Intel's).
They didn't need to underprice AMD before because everyone thought they were better (and at the time they probably were way back before A64) and they had the market so they could charge whatever they liked. So if Intel could manufacture for less all along (as you purport due to their sheer size) why have they been ripping off their customer base? Just wondering.

In the Game of Public Fraud one must keep up appearances mustant one?

Without AMD Intel is a Monoply. If AMD doesn't ever make money sooner or later eye brows raise.

AT&T were are they now. Who had the patients for transitors.

 

[drizzt81]

Without AMD Intel is a Monoply. If AMD doesn't ever make money sooner or later eye brows raise.

mind linking me to the annual reports showing that they were losing money all along?
You are starting to sound like Firewall.

 

[$BangforThe$]

mind linking me to the annual reports showing that they were losing money all along?
You are starting to sound like Firewall.

It would be easier for you to get a list of qts amd has operated in the black.

 

[Rocco123]

In the Game of Public Fraud one must keep up appearances mustant one?

Without AMD Intel is a Monoply. If AMD doesn't ever make money sooner or later eye brows raise.

I think you're getting carried away with this.