"Inexpensive" GPU watercooling? Discuss...

[styx0r]

So, as some of you may have noticed, I've been hit hard by the folding bug. I've been ramping up [H]ard for the last few months, and I've been trying to get the most ppd/$.

The best way to do this has been multi-gpu machines, which I have been putting in Antec 300 cases, with all (5) 120mm fan locations filled, + the 140mm on each at the top for exhaust.

This has worked, and the machines are stable, but the cards do tend to get hot, and I know that this is limiting my ability to overclock the shaders, and ultimately gain ppd.

The point of this thread is, I have recently purchased two XFX 8800 GS video cards. These cards are great price/performance-wise, EXCEPT that they run obscenely hot, despite fan @ 100%, in a well-ventilated case. I'm sure this is related to the poor cooling solution that XFX provides - the cards cost $50 each after rebates.

So, my question to all of you is: Can I purchase water blocks to cool just the GPU core (ignoring memory), and effectively increase my OC headroom at the same time?

Obvioulsy, I would rather spend money on more GPUs/PSUs/Mboards, etc, but I would like to cool these GPUs more effectively, and a "cheap" WC solution had occured to me....

 

[SatTech]

Yes, you can just by blocks for the core. You'd have to buy ram sinks for the memory tho.

Here's a whole mess of em. Some for the core, and some full coverage blocks. I can't vouch for any one of them right now, as I've only just started putting together the components needed for a water loop, but perfomance-pc's is a top notch place.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...th=240&zenid=8d60c5aa9bcf527762e5fb217d38acb3

Lots of good information over here:http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=70

I don't know your definition of cheap however. Figure $30 for the block, another $10 for ram sinks, $50+ for a nice reliable pump, and maybe $30 for misc. things like tubing, fittings, water additives and such.

Hope this helps some.

 

[BillR]

First I think you need to define “obscenely hot”. There is a point where the GPU will not scale enough to gain you enough PPD to justify water cooling.

I have found little or no gain much above 1800 on shader clocks and not much of a drop when you move to say 1750.

Since I see you are using mostly GPU power for folding I’d be more inclined to add a new machine and start filling the video cards one at a time.

Hi, I’m BillR and I endorse my comments

 

[styx0r]

Thanks for your replies:

Part of my first line of questioning was based on the thought that folding was not as (video)memory-intensive for these cards as say, playing Crysis. I am not sure if this is true. Certainly, I would be willing to apply some RAM sinks to the memory if necessary. I appreciate the links...

BillR:

The 8800GSs have been running in the high 80 -> low 90 C range, in a room with an ambient temp of 65 F. I have a high-cfm 120mm fan directly above these cards, exhausting hot air (which is apparent when placing a hand above the exhaust)...

For comparison, my quad 8800GT machine, with (4) PNY 8800GT single-slot cards rarely gets above 78c on the hottest card, and all are overclocked approaching 1800 shaders.

 

[BillR]

Thanks for your replies:

Part of my first line of questioning was based on the thought that folding was not as (video)memory-intensive for these cards as say, playing Crysis. I am not sure if this is true. Certainly, I would be willing to apply some RAM sinks to the memory if necessary. I appreciate the links...

BillR:

The 8800GSs have been running in the high 80 -> low 90 C range, in a room with an ambient temp of 65 F. I have a high-cfm 120mm fan directly above these cards, exhausting hot air (which is apparent when placing a hand above the exhaust)...

For comparison, my quad 8800GT machine, with (4) PNY 8800GT single-slot cards rarely gets above 78c on the hottest card, and all are overclocked approaching 1800 shaders.

That is a tad on the warm side for sure. Maybe two or three stacked 120s?

On the other side of that you aren’t running unheard of temps…

 

[sirmonkey1985]

First I think you need to define “obscenely hot”. There is a point where the GPU will not scale enough to gain you enough PPD to justify water cooling.

I have found little or no gain much above 1800 on shader clocks and not much of a drop when you move to say 1750.

Since I see you are using mostly GPU power for folding I’d be more inclined to add a new machine and start filling the video cards one at a time.

Hi, I’m BillR and I endorse my comments

doing my own testing ive actually found that your gpu clock has a lot to do with how the shader clock effects ppd.. if i leave my gpu clocked at for example 700mhz.. the shader clock becomes useless after 1825mhz.. at 750 mhz i can go up to 1875mhz until it no longer matters.. as of right now im running my 8800GT at 805/1925/1010.. slowly ive been bringing up the shader clock and so far i havnt found the cut off number yet.. tonight ill probably take it up to 1950 and see if it makes a difference.. but its been running stable with this clock for the last 4 days.. though i cant game at this speed.. i have to drop it to 770/1850/1000 to play any games.. but it seems to make a difference when i raise the speeds when it comes to Fah gpu.. and btw.. that 10 extra mhz in the memory adds 100 ppd to my score.. maybe that will help..

btw to the OP if your going to do water cooling get a full block that covers the entire card if you can.. it will allow you to not need so many fans running on the case..


btw i have an antec 300 case.. so far the best fan config ive found is to have the side fan blowing in.. top fan and back fan pulling air out.. with both fans in the front pulling in air.. my 8800GT with its current clock explained above with a duorb cooler sits at 45C never goes any higher with an ambient temp in the room of 75F.. ive done a bunch of different configs with the fans and this one seems to work the best.. with a 120CFM fan pulling air out it pulls the warm air with the cpu out as well keeping warmer air to the bottom of your case instead of pushing it up toward the top case fan.. try it and see how it works for you..

 

[Kendrak]

No more GPUs for you...... nothing to see here folks

I plan on water cooling my main rig and setting up the radiator outside to get the heat out of the house during the summer.

I bet you can pick up some used watter blocks from ppl upgrading to newer cards.

 

[SmokeRngs]

I think what you are going to find in regards to your situation is that water cooling will not be cost effective. By the time you get done spending the extra money on cooling, you probably could have bought cards with better cooling and still spent less money.

Considering you would probably be watercooling all of the cards, that's going to mean a really good water pump and a really really good radiator or multiple radiators. All of this will increase costs a lot.

What you might want to do is look into finding aftermarket air cooling solutions for the cards that will suit your purpose. It will probably be a lot cheaper and easier to accomplish than going with water cooling on the same cards.

 

[sirmonkey1985]

I think what you are going to find in regards to your situation is that water cooling will not be cost effective. By the time you get done spending the extra money on cooling, you probably could have bought cards with better cooling and still spent less money.

Considering you would probably be watercooling all of the cards, that's going to mean a really good water pump and a really really good radiator or multiple radiators. All of this will increase costs a lot.

What you might want to do is look into finding aftermarket air cooling solutions for the cards that will suit your purpose. It will probably be a lot cheaper and easier to accomplish than going with water cooling on the same cards.

true with that.. but the disadvantage to air cooling is that the decent coolers that are out there that will give the same benefit to water cooling are usually larger then dual slot.. which unless you have a board with 3 x16 pci-e slots wont fit..even my duorb thats suppose to be a dual slot cooling solution is bigger then a dual slot.. if i was to put another card in the cooler would sit directly on the back of the card below it.. and with water cooling is that its always upgradable.. i doubt he would need more then a single triple fan radiator if hes just cooling the 2 cards.. if he wanted to add the cpu to the cooling loop.. then yes id agree with the multiple radiators.. not to mention nvidia has done pretty well with sticking to the same mounting holes on all its cards..so it wouldnt be as hard to just put the block on another card.. now if he wanted to switch to ATI then it would be a different story.. but thats just my 2 cents..

 

[SmokeRngs]

true with that.. but the disadvantage to air cooling is that the decent coolers that are out there that will give the same benefit to water cooling are usually larger then dual slot.. which unless you have a board with 3 x16 pci-e slots wont fit..even my duorb thats suppose to be a dual slot cooling solution is bigger then a dual slot.. if i was to put another card in the cooler would sit directly on the back of the card below it.. and with water cooling is that its always upgradable.. i doubt he would need more then a single triple fan radiator if hes just cooling the 2 cards.. if he wanted to add the cpu to the cooling loop.. then yes id agree with the multiple radiators.. not to mention nvidia has done pretty well with sticking to the same mounting holes on all its cards..so it wouldnt be as hard to just put the block on another card.. now if he wanted to switch to ATI then it would be a different story.. but thats just my 2 cents..

He's looking at 4 cards in the machine and he doesn't truly need water cooling but something better than the subpar stock cooling that came with the cards. Even some cheaper aftermarket cooling solutions would work well enough for his purposes and be a better value overall. There is no reason to go with cooling solutions that will cost more than the cards themselves.

For the kind of money he would end up having to spend on water cooling, he'd probably be better off trying to sell the cards and use the money to buy new cards with better stock cooling.

 

[sirmonkey1985]

He's looking at 4 cards in the machine and he doesn't truly need water cooling but something better than the subpar stock cooling that came with the cards. Even some cheaper aftermarket cooling solutions would work well enough for his purposes and be a better value overall. There is no reason to go with cooling solutions that will cost more than the cards themselves.

For the kind of money he would end up having to spend on water cooling, he'd probably be better off trying to sell the cards and use the money to buy new cards with better stock cooling.

i only see 2 8800GS's minus the other system running quad 8800GT's... but yeah i still agree with you on the whole cost factor.. but sadly almost every cooling solution that refers to replacing the stock coolings probably going to cost more then either of those cards..

 

[jws2346]

My turn to chime in

ATM I have a Q6600 water cooled (MCP350, ApogeeGT, MCR220, 2x D12SM-12 fans pulling). PNY 8800GT, "single slot", shader = 1700 , fan set manually to 80% It 24/7 folds GPU2 at 59c/60c core temp with an ambient of 22c/23c. (about 5400 PpD)

I have another Q6600 water cooled, same as above (water cooling wise) only it has a "single slot" eVGA 8800GS. The shaders are set at 1776 and the fan is at 80%. It runs GPU2 27/4 at 55c/56c core temp with an ambient of 22c/23c. (about 4800 PpD)

I have a E6600 air cooled with a Zalman 9700, with a "dual slot" eVGA 9600GSO, shaders = 1601, fan set at 80%. It uses GPU2 24/7 and with a 48c/49c core temp at 22c/23c ambient. (about 4600 PpD)

None of my GPU cards are WC'ed and I love WC'ing . Believe me, there ain't no such a thing as an effective inexpensive water cooling anything for computers and I honestly don't give a shite who says otherwise. . If you don't want to or can't spend a lot of cash just stick with air cooling for either your CPU or your GPU (there're some very effective "third party"air cooling heat sinks out there). I don't think you need WC'ing on a GPU card because they are designed to run much hotter than a CPU. Whether you get a full cover block (card prioritized and confusing, 88xx, 96/8xx, GTX, GX2, G80, G92, etc) or just a core block with RAM sinks (not card prioritized) IMO it's just too much hassle because it's just one more thing to worry about, ie leaking, restricting loop flow, RAD size and more fans, more freakin' tubing and wire clutter, need a more powerful pump then just a CPU loop, etc. If you have overheat problems check the case air flow and, if possible, blow a 120 mm fan on the card (I have fans on all my cards ). Or go with a "dual slot" card which IMO is very impressive. Remember, an effective full cover WB costs about a $120+ USD and becomes useless if you change cards (who wants to buy old tech). It's just my humble opinion, but I don't think just the core block and air cooled RAM sinks will be as effective as a full cover block. (don't anyone come ungluded, it's just my opinion )

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. AFAIC WC'in' is where it's at, only one problemo it's "mucho expensiveo" (or something like that) to get it better than air.

Edit: Thanks to Xilikon, which has a vast knowledge of computers, I stand corrected. As Xilikon says below "The cheapest you can go to watercool the GPU only (without going the crappy way) is 200$ " I can only speak for myself, but "sheech", that's way too expensive for my limited budget. I know there's always the Lottery, armed robbery, pimpin' out the GF or sellin' my cat (much too afraid to ask on the first one and the cat's only worth much to me) or any other form of getting rich I can think of.

Folding and WCGing for a CURE

 

[Xilikon]

There is no such thing as inexpensive GPU watercooling. The cheapest you can go to watercool the GPU only (without going the crappy way) is 200$ and more. It's cheaper to improve the case airflow so hot air doesn't sit around the GPU

 

[xdivenx]

What about inexpensive Mineral Oil cooling? Buy say a large aquarium, organize the motherboards inside in a fashion that allows upward flow, fill it with mineral oil, and wouldn't the heat make a convection current and effectively recycle the oil?

 

[Xilikon]

What about inexpensive Mineral Oil cooling? Buy say a large aquarium, organize the motherboards inside in a fashion that allows upward flow, fill it with mineral oil, and wouldn't the heat make a convection current and effectively recycle the oil?

It has been tried and it doesn't work well since it will continue to heat mineral oil till it become too hot. To make it work, you also need to think about how to dissipate heat as well but wc setup isn't designed for mineral oil (viscosity too high for the pump).

Inexpensive exotic cooling is a oxymoron

 

[styx0r]

Well, thanks to everyone for all your information.

When I posted this topic, I was laughing to myself about "inexpensive watercooling", but I figured it was worth a shot anyhow. I've since looked around at GPU-only waterblocks, and after pricing out entire cooling setups, have come to exactly the same conclusion you all have.

My intent with these machines has always been to air cool them, for simplicity, reliability, and low cost. When I installed these 8800gs cards, I realized the error in my purchase - their cooling solutions are not effective, and the effective cost of running them at a reasonable overclock, 24/7 is much higher than the cost of the cards themselves, because I'm going to end up buying aftermarket air coolers.

Thanks again for all the suggestions - I've even considered Mineral Oil, but came to Xilikon's conclusion as well, plus all the mess if anything needs to be adjusted is just not worth it.

Of the 12 GPUs I am currently folding with, I only have temp issues with these (2) XFX 8800GS cards. In the quad 8800GT box, for example, the GPUS are all in the 50-60c range, with ppd for the box around 22-23k (pure GPU).

sirmonkey1985: I've been playing around with fan config in my antec 300s as well. I am undecided about the side fan, but I'll do some actual testing to see if blowing in or out the side is more effective.

In summary: Thanks for all your educated suggestions, and don't buy cheap GPUs if their cooling solutions suck, and you are using them in a multi-gpu box!

 

[Xilikon]

I forgot to tell that a inexpensive way to cool it better is with a Accelero S1/S2. The cooler can be had for about 25$ each and with enough airflow, it can drop 10-20C.

 

[SatTech]

Inexpensive exotic cooling is a oxymoron

Ain't that the truth. I'm almost $400 into my loop and so far only have
1 pump - Liang D5
1 rad - Fesser 480
1 Cpu block - Swiftech GTZ
1 NB/SB block - Bitspower ASUS 790

Still need :
1 pump
1 rad
2 reserviors
2 full cover 280 GTX blocks, with a 3rd to come
all the compression fittings
tubing

This stuff gets expensive quick, especially for quality components

 

[styx0r]

I forgot to tell that a inexpensive way to cool it better is with a Accelero S1/S2. The cooler can be had for about 25$ each and with enough airflow, it can drop 10-20C.

Yes, but will that be practical with 3 GPUs, and 3 coolers, sandwiched next to each other? I have dual-slot spots for all 3 cards, but no more...

Still, it is a very good idea, and I have not ruled it out. Anyone else with experience care to comment?