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id's Rage discussion

GORANKAR said:
It can look average without playing it. Do you really expect something more than average in the game play dept from iD at this point?
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id is known for the quality of the shooting experience and for the overall production value of their games. To expect much more than that is fairly pointless.

The position id is in at this point is that there are basically two groups of hardcore gamers: those who essentially just want Doom and Quake with amazing graphics and those who want engaging gameplay mechanics and deep, engrossing storylines. id's in a position where they need to go beyond the simplistic gameplay of Doom but not stray too far from the formula they established early on. So, group A ends up hating the games because they're different from Doom/Quake while group B ends up hating the games because they're too much like Doom/Quake and they find the games too generic. It's kind of a lose-lose deal for them at this point, as both groups tend to be pretty vocal about their expectations, so they can't grossly upset either, but in trying to find a middle ground, both groups end up being moderately disappointed.

In any case, Willits is no Spectre, so it's anyone's guess as to where Rage ends up. The premise does seem like fun though, so it's just a matter of the details panning out right and Rage should end up being a solid game. I have a feeling, though, that group A is going to hate it more than they hated Doom 3 while group B is going to be much more receptive to it.
 
here:
http://www.shacknews.com/images/ima...hots/Screenshot/16803/16803_4d40399b0fcfb.jpg

I agree the textures do look blurry... reminds me of doom 3, but honestly I'd rather see this if it's closer to reality then the stuff from epic and crytech which I thought were misleading (final result was no where as good)

we also don't know if these textures/models are scaled down. they could be. iD is kinda humble, and they mat want to keep some surprises until the game is out. At least, I hope...
 
Silus said:
"Look" average ? I really don't understand that concept, when gameplay certainly cannot be evaluated by screenshots and/or trailers.

And what point is this ? I have yet to play a game from id that wasn't good or very good, so yes, I am waiting for a good game in Rage. Don't assume for a minute that because you didn't like games like Doom 3, no one else did either.
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Like you said, don't think for one minute, that just because you loved it, everybody else did as well. It comes down to a matter of preference. Q3 without mods and D3 were meh imho.
iD has not strayed form the Doom/Quake game play style, since well Doom 1. I am figuring RAGE is going to be Doom with RPG elements. Not saying it's a bad thing, but I have no reason to believe it will be any less average than I thought vanilla Q3 or Doom 3 were.
 
Youn said:
here:
http://www.shacknews.com/images/ima...hots/Screenshot/16803/16803_4d40399b0fcfb.jpg

I agree the textures do look blurry... reminds me of doom 3, but honestly I'd rather see this if it's closer to reality then the stuff from epic and crytech which I thought were misleading (final result was no where as good)

we also don't know if these textures/models are scaled down. they could be. iD is kinda humble, and they mat want to keep some surprises until the game is out. At least, I hope...
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still wondering why everyone thinks crysis looks good, take away the pretty motion blur effect and nobody would care. I think rage looks great from the videos and past screenshots.
 
butterfliesrpretty said:
still wondering why everyone thinks crysis looks good, take away the pretty motion blur effect and nobody would care. I think rage looks great from the videos and past screenshots.
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In-game cinematics that almost looked movie-like in quality, good water reflections/simultation with reasonable voice-acting, character animations, guns and explosions.

That's pretty much why everyone though Crysis looked good...that...and they did it how many years ago and just now we are seeing the Rage engine coming out that'll probably beat Crysis in image quality.... probably. I'm not confident of Crysis 3 beating Crysis in image quality though only due to Crysis 3 being designed with consoles in mind. Consoles lower the bar a lot. Sure they are going to remake-everything and not reuse a single texture or save any money on the pc version after making the console versions ;).

Rage supposibly for reasons I outlined earlier in a post won't suffer from console-itis. Crysis 3 does not have that claim or an equivilent system.
 
GORANKAR said:
Like you said, don't think for one minute, that just because you loved it, everybody else did as well. It comes down to a matter of preference. Q3 without mods and D3 were meh imho.
iD has not strayed form the Doom/Quake game play style, since well Doom 1. I am figuring RAGE is going to be Doom with RPG elements. Not saying it's a bad thing, but I have no reason to believe it will be any less average than I thought vanilla Q3 or Doom 3 were.
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I obviously didn't assume that, since you had already expressed dislike for id games. You were the one surprised to see someone actually waiting for something good from id.

The argument of one company getting flak from not straying from a certain formula, is hilarious, since they ALL do it. The most popular series around, come from the repeating of the same thing over and over again, with some pretty graphics (some don't even have the pretty graphics).
 
butterfliesrpretty said:
still wondering why everyone thinks crysis looks good, take away the pretty motion blur effect and nobody would care. I think rage looks great from the videos and past screenshots.
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Compared to any other game, Crysis DOES look good. It's the best looking game around.
As for Rage, it definitely looks awesome too, but I have yet to see it running on a PC, with all the details set to maximum, so the comparison will need to wait!
 
Also, Bethesda confirmed the release dates for Rage:

September 13th for the US and September 16th for Europe.
 
WBurchnall said:
You should read up about the Rage engine. What you just stated basically shows you don't know anything about what the Rage engine is trying to do. The rage engine is an entirely real-time scalable engine with real-time rescaling of textures, polygons, etc. It is suppose to be the solution to 'make for consoles, crappy port to pc'-itis.

The idea being you make 1 game with an ultra-high detailed model. We'll say a 50MB model if your main character. In real-time, the game will scale that 50MB model with extreme detail down to what YOUR system is capable of running it at. IE if its an xbox 360, it'll render it down to maybe 0.5MB for a 1056x560 resolution...

If its a mid-range PC, it might scale down the texture to 3MB for medium detail and increase the polygon count.

If its a high-end PC, it might scale down the texture to 10MB and keep the polygon counts pretty close to where the model was originally made by the artist in 3dmax or what-not.

If its an ultra-high-end PC /w triple SLI or quad crossfire, blah blah...or..if your replaying the game on a pc in 5-10 years down the road on a mid-range machine, the game will use the full 50MB model with all polygons available. So the cool part is, you can potentially replay games 5 years down the road and they look substantially better than they did when you were originally playing them.

The point being that now artists don't have to worry about the 'medium' and scaling back their models to be less than ___ KB and can concentrate more on the art. The engine handling all the scaling. The artist just needs to make 1 copy. The best looking game possible with the tools available for the highest-performing platform(PC, obviously :p) and the same pc source files(theoretically, minus dvd-storage limitations, etc) to play the game on a ps3, xbox 360, wii or cellphone(Yes, Rage3D has been shown running on an iPhone 4) with the engine handling all the appropriate scaling. Theoritically, they could also design the models for the PC of 10 years from now and each year the game looks better and better as new hardware is released.

Can you imagine a Starcraft 1 that's graphics never became dated? The only way they'd get you to buy Starcraft 2 would be .... innovation? or new content? Oh how awful it would be if the game industry started to be more innovative, ambitious and games less-reused old art/content.
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I know full well the claims that id are making to the scalability of Tech 5. It would be a boon for game engines running on current console tech if it does. However, things don't always pan out as expected. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" as they say.
 
IIRC Rage was announced around the same time as Borderlands was announced, but the latter was released considerably earlier.
 
I don't doubt that the Rage engine (id Tech 5) will be good (possibly surpassing Crysis-like graphics), but I do doubt that RAGE will fully showcase the engines potential (as noted, the texture-quality doesn't seem so good... but that's just in this particular game / scene).

I get the feeling, however, that id tech 5 was made for ease of development - not a bad thing per se.
 
^Agreed; also...
I read that JC said that DOOM4 will look up to 3 times better than rage; as they are locking the framerate at 30FPS.
 
Not one mention of quake4.. Although not up to par with Q3.. it still was a pretty good game. Everytime Id releases a new engine.. it takes the industry to a whole other level. I expect no different from rage.
 
Silus said:
Not really sure how you can say there isn't subtance, when you haven't play the game...
Plus, all games share many similar aspects. Rage isn't different. What matters is gameplay and that is yet to be seen. id is the master of FPS and I have confidence that they won't disappoint. As far as I'm concerned, they haven't this far :)
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id hasn't really made a decent game in over a decade. The last good game they made was Quake 3 in 1999. Doom 3 was a pretty big let down and their farming out of Quake 4 had pretty lack luster results as well. Quake Wars sucked, the last Wolfenstein game sucked. I realize that id didn't have direct involvement in the latter, but it sucked none the less. One could argue their lack of involvement in their IP's makes them far worse than even the more recent lack luster games made by id themselves.

Hopefully Rage will be good, but I'll remain skeptical until I see more.
 
I'm "Raging" that this game hasn't come out yet. Looks incredible.
 
@Dan_D

Yeah.. As a huge fan of RTCW & W:ET; Wolf'09 was the biggest let down ever for me.
 
Dan_D said:
id hasn't really made a decent game in over a decade. The last good game they made was Quake 3 in 1999. Doom 3 was a pretty big let down and their farming out of Quake 4 had pretty lack luster results as well. Quake Wars sucked, the last Wolfenstein game sucked. I realize that id didn't have direct involvement in the latter, but it sucked none the less. One could argue their lack of involvement in their IP's makes them far worse than even the more recent lack luster games made by id themselves.

Hopefully Rage will be good, but I'll remain skeptical until I see more.
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I don't understand your complaint if you acknowledge they didn't make quake wars, quake 4 and the new wolfenstein. Doom 3 wasn't terrible. I'm not a fanboy but I think they are allowed to have one ok game.
 
butterfliesrpretty said:
I don't understand your complaint if you acknowledge they didn't make quake wars, quake 4 and the new wolfenstein. Doom 3 wasn't terrible. I'm not a fanboy but I think they are allowed to have one ok game.
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They farmed out their IP's and their hands off approach back fired. That's my point. Yet Doom 3 was only slightly better than those games which was a hands on approach for them. Honestly I have to wonder if id knows how to make a good game anymore. they haven't done it in over 10 years.
 
Dan_D said:
They farmed out their IP's and their hands off approach back fired. That's my point. Yet Doom 3 was only slightly better than those games which was a hands on approach for them. Honestly I have to wonder if id knows how to make a good game anymore. they haven't done it in over 10 years.
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I see your point. My thing is that they have only made 1 game in ten years. I do think letting other companies take control over your brand is always a bad idea, but then again I don't know the financial details.
 
I'm not really feeling Rage. Feels/looks ho hum to me. Bring on the next Doom and bring Doom back to its roots. None of this Doom 3 crap please.
 
Don't believe the hype. Will not be the one buying this title first......well actually I am sure we will buy it 4 times but it will not be because I am thinking it is going to be the next big thing in terms of gaming enjoyment.
 
Dan_D said:
id hasn't really made a decent game in over a decade. The last good game they made was Quake 3 in 1999. Doom 3 was a pretty big let down and their farming out of Quake 4 had pretty lack luster results as well. Quake Wars sucked, the last Wolfenstein game sucked. I realize that id didn't have direct involvement in the latter, but it sucked none the less. One could argue their lack of involvement in their IP's makes them far worse than even the more recent lack luster games made by id themselves.

Hopefully Rage will be good, but I'll remain skeptical until I see more.
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I certainly liked Doom 3, despite its flaws. Coupled with the expansion, it was a very enjoyable gaming experience. I loved Quake Wars (still play it today), but that wasn't developed by id. Splash Damage just used id's engine (id Tech 4), to which they are sticking with for Brink.
Quake 4 was also not made by id, the developers just used id Tech 4 and same for Wolfenstein. Both weren't amazing games, but Quake 4 especially had quite a few good moments (which I won't spoil for those that haven't played it yet).

id takes a lot of flak for nothing it seems. Your last point has some merit, about id letting others do games for their IP, but that's what a small studio like id can do. As far as FPS go, they have yet to fail IMO and I think that Rage will be a good game, But I can't make claims that it's actually going to be great, since I have yet to play it. Others in this thread, seem adamant in claiming it's going to suck for sure, based on screenshots and a trailer...
 
addictedto60fps said:
I'm not really feeling Rage. Feels/looks ho hum to me. Bring on the next Doom and bring Doom back to its roots. None of this Doom 3 crap please.
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Add a flashlight mod or just turn on the lights and add the ability to jump and crouch and Doom 3 was Doom with better graphics, and locked closets that spawned a monster every time you turned your back on it.
Maybe the original Doom and Doom 2 were better executed, or maybe it is because the genre was still new that 1 and 2 are considered better by many, myself included, but 3 is really just more of the same.
I did not care for it, but it's not because it was not like 1 & 2.
I just did not care for it, if only because D3 was D2, and I foolishly expected more.
 
Dan_D said:
It must suck to buy games that well............suck just so the video card guys have something to test with. Even worse for them, they've got to play games they don't necessarily like.
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Welcome to real life, where people sometimes have to *gasp* do things they don't enjoy doing. Oh, the horror.
 
Silus said:
What's this "Doom 3" crap ?
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Oh, what I mean by this is that the next Doom better not be like Doom 3. Doom 3 was was garbage in my opinion. I know that there are people who thought it was a good sequel, but to me, it's just not Doom. Doom is about crazy enviornments with hundreds of enemies being thrown at you all at once. That is the essence of Doom, at least for me anyway. I just hope id doesn't go the route of Doom 3 for the next one is all that I'm trying to say here.
 
limitedaccess said:
It could be worse. What if you could only test at low resolutions/settings :p
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Well for motherboard reviews we just use canned benchmarks at low resolution. At least we don't have to play them like that. For the video card guys, they get to play, but having done similar testing for the Skulltrail article I can tell you that the type of real world game testing Brent and Mark perform isn't actually any fun.
 
stiltner said:
I really wish iD could make a comeback to their glory days. It just feels like they're way too focused on pretty and not really giving a crap about substance.

This is honestly the first I have seen of Rage, it looks incredible, but everything I seen in there I went "Hrrm, looks like Borderlands...hrrm that also, hrrrm that too".

Now sure, you can only have so much deviation in a post apocalyptic society but everything felt and looked spot on with Borderlands entire backdrop.
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Rage was actually announced first. Gearbox was just able to deliver faster. I thought at first, rip off of Borderlands? Then I did some research, and it was actually announced at Quake Con in 07 a few months before Borderlands.

I have seen it played first hand, and on the 360, it looks good. Possibly the best looking console game to date. I don't know what the final product will behold but I have hopes. I will be purchasing this on day one. I feel like there will be more to it then Borderlands. It has mini games, and racing, vehicle customization. It just looks like you will be able to get more hours of Rage then Borderlands strictly because there is a lot more to do then just the story line.
 
addictedto60fps said:
I know that there are people who thought it was a good sequel, but to me, it's just not Doom. Doom is about crazy enviornments with hundreds of enemies being thrown at you all at once
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If they had gone that route, people would have complained excessively about the lack of visual detail (because the more entities you have on screen, the less detail you can afford to spend on those entities, and this is doubly true when every entity casts a relatively expensive stencil shadow volume, even with accelerated culling).

Like I said earlier, you just can't please everyone. The group of people who would have hated Doom 3 for lack of visual detail because of the demands of a ton of enemies on screen is probably as large as the group who hated Doom 3 because there aren't enough enemies on screen. Not much to be done about that.
 
phide said:
If they had gone that route, people would have complained excessively about the lack of visual detail (because the more entities you have on screen, the less detail you can afford to spend on those entities, and this is doubly true when every entity casts a relatively expensive stencil shadow volume, even with accelerated culling).

Like I said earlier, you just can't please everyone. The group of people who would have hated Doom 3 for lack of visual detail because of the demands of a ton of enemies on screen is probably as large as the group who hated Doom 3 because there aren't enough enemies on screen. Not much to be done about that.
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True, but how about somewhere in between. That way, both sides will be pleased. :) If a comproimse had to be made, I'd be fine with just maybe 20 enemies on the screen at once. That way, the visual aspects of the game could still be maintained in order to appease the other side. ;)
 
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