![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
id Software's Official DOOM3 Benchmarks
- Thread starter archevilangel
- Start date
Nvidia Fans-
Keep enjoying the latest win of Nvidia cards over Ati's in Doom3. I've got a secret for you all: This is an OPEN GL-BASED GAME!!!!! All OPEN GL based games are played better on an Nvidia. If thats news for you, its time to get up to speed. The Fact of the matter is that Nvidia pays developers to put in goodies that only Nvidia cards can take advantage of. Most often these games are Open GL-based games.
Both ATI and Nvidia put out kick-ass cards. I'm not surprised to see an Nvidia card out on top in an Open-GL game.
I would like to see the image quality comparasin. ATI's last Gen of cards had superior image quality to Nvidia's FX series. I can't wait till Half-life2 and Doom3 image quality screenshots are out.
I also can't wait to get a X800XT-PE and run it on the SAME POWERSUPPLY I RAN MY 9800PRO ON. Oh. thats right. the 6800 cards need a 480watt PS? oh well. so much for advanced.
Keep enjoying the latest win of Nvidia cards over Ati's in Doom3. I've got a secret for you all: This is an OPEN GL-BASED GAME!!!!! All OPEN GL based games are played better on an Nvidia. If thats news for you, its time to get up to speed. The Fact of the matter is that Nvidia pays developers to put in goodies that only Nvidia cards can take advantage of. Most often these games are Open GL-based games.
Both ATI and Nvidia put out kick-ass cards. I'm not surprised to see an Nvidia card out on top in an Open-GL game.
I would like to see the image quality comparasin. ATI's last Gen of cards had superior image quality to Nvidia's FX series. I can't wait till Half-life2 and Doom3 image quality screenshots are out.
I also can't wait to get a X800XT-PE and run it on the SAME POWERSUPPLY I RAN MY 9800PRO ON. Oh. thats right. the 6800 cards need a 480watt PS? oh well. so much for advanced.
loyalist said:
hmm.. I run a 6800GT @ 425 core (way pass the stock ultra speed) in a computer the size of a shoebox (shuttle SB75) with a 250w powersupply without a hiccup. Those power requirements were grossly exaggerated.
also, there is not a shred of evidence that ATI will romp on the 6800's in HL2, except some stolen alpha code which shows the cards tied @ 1600x1200.
theelviscerator
Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2004
- Messages
- 959
zombie10k said:
250 huh? with what a 166mmx?
Lord of Shadows
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2004
- Messages
- 3,322
It's more of the max amperage on the 12v rail than the total wattage of the powersupply.
theelviscerator said:
Don't be silly. haven't you ever seen what the Shuttle SFF boxes are capable of? people are running prescotts and P4 3.4EE's in these boxes without breaking a sweat.
For me, it's the 3.2C --> 3.6C, 1 gig PC 4000 memory, 250 Gig HD, DVD burner, 6800 GT @ 425 core/1150 memory.
not too shabby for a shoebox sized computer. The Shuttles 250W supply is top shelf, and includes line conditioning, a feature only found in top end PS's.
burningrave101
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2003
- Messages
- 11,825
loyalist said:
Those "goodies" have nothing to do with nVidia's OpenGL performance. nVidia has pioneered the way in OpenGL for years now while ATI has just pushed it aside. ATI's drivers have very poor performance in OpenGL and Linux and badly need to be rewritten. But is ATI's driver team good enough to actually do that anywhere near the level nVidia has been over the years? I doubt it.
ATI's performance in Linux isn't just bad, its HORRID. An FX 5200 can lay down an asskicking on the 9800 pro in Linux
. Linux is getting more and more popular every year.
The IQ comparisons have been beat to death by every site thats reviewed the X800's and 6800's. The consensus says they have the same IQ quality. ATI only supports Quality filtering which is Trilinear that uses a mix of Brilinear. They use Brilinear filtering tricks to boost their AF performance. The 6800's support a higher level of filtering which is Full Trilinear with NO optimizations. If you turned off the optimizations on the X800's they would be lucky to compete at all.
Just in that little DOOM3 review they said they noticed some "fudging" on the ATI cards. DOOM3 does things that ATI hasn't been able to work with yet and some of their filtering tricks may begin to show if you start looking for them.
You can run a 6800u on a 350w name brand PSU and your not getting an X800XT PE any time soon unless you want to pay about $1,000 for it lmao.
Gateway says they wont ship any more X800XT's and CDW has missed every shipment they have announced recently. ATI wont be selling them on their site till late August and into October most likely.
Welcome to the FALL REFRESH
.DOOM3 was a wakeup call to ATI. DOOM3 will most likely be this years top selling and #1 game. HL2 will do well i'm sure but i think DOOM3 will steal the title.
And seriously, HL2 is NOWHERE near the kind of graphics hawg DOOM3 is. You have to have like a 512MB card to run DOOM3 with everything maxed to the hilt.
HL2 is going to be far less then that, and is highly optimized to run on slow machines. Just look at the original Half Life and how Valve did it.
el_lance_o
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2004
- Messages
- 235
actually it was a 5900xt, then I flashed it to a regular 5900, and then I got some better cooling and psu and stuff, I might just try the 5950 bios to see what happens
theelviscerator
Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2004
- Messages
- 959
zombie10k said:
just seems taxing knowing you are probably overloading it with that set up...
cpu and card alone is over 200 watts...
What's up with you guys talking about differences in clock speed and clock speed "disadvantages"? That's like saying a Prescott should be better than an Athlon 64 because it has a 1200 MHz clock "advantage".
To get back to the topic, I bet nVidia just gave a huge bonus to the guy who decided to leave the 16 pipes intact on the GT. While looking at flagship benchmarks is fun and all, it's good business sense to one-up your opponent in the midrange model, where most of your money is going to be made.
To get back to the topic, I bet nVidia just gave a huge bonus to the guy who decided to leave the 16 pipes intact on the GT. While looking at flagship benchmarks is fun and all, it's good business sense to one-up your opponent in the midrange model, where most of your money is going to be made.
burningrave101
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2003
- Messages
- 11,825
jynxycat said:so a game that has extreme specs, will outsell one with reasonable specs ?
No. DOOM3 will run perfectly well on low end machines. You just can't run the max settings.
Thats what makes OpenGL better then D3D. That and its portability to Linux and Mac.
I dont think Valve's Source engine is going to come near the in-game reality and fealing of ID's DOOM3 engine.
To tell you the truth, i'll probaly enjoy Half Life 2 more then DOOM3 simply because i'm not really into the DOOM3 style of gaming. DOOM3 will have an extremely eiry feel to it. Its definitely not a game for children.
But DOOM3 has been highly anticipated and the DOOM3 benchmarks changed everything. I dont think Half Life 2 benchmarks would of had anywhere near the impact on sales.
I'm more looking forward to Quake 4, Soldier of Fortune 3, RTCW 2, and the many other games that will be based off ID's new engine.
I dont think Half Life 2 going to be a major hitter for graphics like Far Cry was. Valve is coding HL2 extremly well and it should be very playable even with max settings at 1600x1200 on ither a 6800 or X800. The rumors of HL2 OpenGL support is there was well along with SM 3.0 support in a patch.
Clownboat said:
No no, we means that ATi is getting outdated with their graphic card that require high Frequency to overcome 6800 series, but they didn't even beat NVIDIA on that.
NVIDIA is better built that it doesn't need higher frequency ot be able to achieve those nice sweety candy marks. And also NVIDIA 6800 series has more functions than ATi X800XT series like SM3, Ultra Shadow II, bla bla oh and price are still lower than any ATi cards.
burningrave101
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2003
- Messages
- 11,825
KakimotoR said:No no, we means that ATi is getting outdated with their graphic card that require high Frequency to overcome 6800 series, but they didn't even beat NVIDIA on that.
NVIDIA is better built that it doesn't need higher frequency ot be able to achieve those nice sweety candy marks. And also NVIDIA 6800 series has more functions than ATi X800XT series like SM3, Ultra Shadow II, bla bla oh and price are still lower than any ATi cards.
The 6800's also dont need a ton of optimizations to perform well. The X800's do. AF optimizations are OFF by default in the new ForceWare drivers and the 6800's dont lose a ton of performance with Tri Ops off ither.
If you disabled ither one on the X800, i'm sure it would be devastating on performance.
- Joined
- May 18, 1997
- Messages
- 58,620
Damn, this thread still going? JUST got home from id, and have basically spent every waking hour there since Tuesday. System testing? I got your system testing. The folder with our data in it was 2.3GB. Hopefully we will have it put together in a digestable format for next week.
burningrave101
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2003
- Messages
- 11,825
Clownboat said:
That only seems to be a problem for nOObs with nOOb issues.
Anyone in their right mind doesn't install a PCI card in slot #1 because it causes a high-end graphics card to run hotter then it should. And there are these cool little $.50 molex splitters that the 6800u ships with in case your pitiful PSU doesn't support 2 whole molex connectors.
- Joined
- May 18, 1997
- Messages
- 58,620
We pitched our idea to the guys at id last year, and it took a bit of selling, but they see a real benefit for their game and the community by having something like this. It is a win-win for everyone. Also, we have been huge QuakeCon supporters for years now, never asking for anything in return for our efforts there, so this was also a nice tip of the hat for our hard work there.
Bottom line is that id wants folks that buy their game to have a great experience and with thei guide, you should know exactly what to expect.
I wil give something away here, that is more for forum readers than main page stuff anyway. We were running DOOM3 last night at 2048x1536 resolution and it was playing well on a VERY heavy duty system. But you should have seen it...it litterally looked better than many of the prerendered cut scene movies you have seen. The game is simply one of the most amazing things I have ever experienced in the hardware realm...
(come to think of it, it looked better than a lot of those cut scenes at 1024x7680 too. )
Bottom line is that id wants folks that buy their game to have a great experience and with thei guide, you should know exactly what to expect.
I wil give something away here, that is more for forum readers than main page stuff anyway. We were running DOOM3 last night at 2048x1536 resolution and it was playing well on a VERY heavy duty system. But you should have seen it...it litterally looked better than many of the prerendered cut scene movies you have seen. The game is simply one of the most amazing things I have ever experienced in the hardware realm...
(come to think of it, it looked better than a lot of those cut scenes at 1024x7680 too.
)
- Joined
- May 18, 1997
- Messages
- 58,620
AMD FX-53, ABIT AV8 K8T800Pro, BFGTech 6800U, 2GB Corsair Ram. This will be our "Ultimate DOOM 3 Rig" or something like that.xSyzygy666x said:what was the specs on that heavy duty system??? not like ill ever be able to afford it but just wondering anyway
2048 is not available in the game but from working with it I felt as though it would run pretty well. I went to the next office and asked Carmack if DOOM 3 could run at 2048 and he came over and set it up. Looked incredible and was very playable.
- Joined
- May 18, 1997
- Messages
- 58,620
Actually playability is what we are going to be focused on, just like our video card reviews.burningrave101 said:
- Joined
- May 18, 1997
- Messages
- 58,620
We ended up not testing the 9700, but rather the 9500Pro and the 9800Pro. Looking at the data, the 9700 will not be able to attain the same playable resolutions as the 9800Pro.neokeelo said:
theelviscerator
Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2004
- Messages
- 959
well the nvidia guys would have everyone believe its unplayable on anything built by ati..
So read this review of the 6800U and the XT-PE posted on the front page:
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/6800andX800XT/index.htm
... and all the Nvidia freaks around here explain why, when AA & AF are turned up, the 6800U comes in behind the X800 in just about every stinking test - notably in Far Cry, UT2004, and Thief? If we're talking value here, and our only point of reference is Doom3 - then yea, go buy your Nvidia card. But why is it the X800 seems to do better in so much else? I'm trying really hard to figure out why [H] and its community are coming off like a bunch of giddy cheerleaders right now over a winning game/architecture combination that seemingly doesn't hold true outside of said combination when faced with competition. Any of you have answers to this?
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/6800andX800XT/index.htm
... and all the Nvidia freaks around here explain why, when AA & AF are turned up, the 6800U comes in behind the X800 in just about every stinking test - notably in Far Cry, UT2004, and Thief? If we're talking value here, and our only point of reference is Doom3 - then yea, go buy your Nvidia card. But why is it the X800 seems to do better in so much else? I'm trying really hard to figure out why [H] and its community are coming off like a bunch of giddy cheerleaders right now over a winning game/architecture combination that seemingly doesn't hold true outside of said combination when faced with competition. Any of you have answers to this?
Something else that needs to be taken into account is availability and price. It is much easier and cheapter to obtain a 6800 GT and overclock it to Ultra speeds than to buy an X800 XT (ebay being the only real hope).
If you want a good video card NOW, the GT is the best bet. If you can wait a while, the XT might be a better deal.
If you want a good video card NOW, the GT is the best bet. If you can wait a while, the XT might be a better deal.
Aside from 4 pipelines (that when comparing an OC'd Pro to an XT-PE's scores don't seem to make much of a difference), how is snagging a GT and OC'ing it any different from snagging a Pro and OC'ing it? That's exactly what I did - my Pro is running the XT-PE BIOS and runs at a flawless default of 525/575. All for $337. No different than your proposal, kick@ss, except I've apparently got a better card for "everything else". So why not do that instead?
F
fallguy
Guest
KakimotoR said:No no, we means that ATi is getting outdated with their graphic card that require high Frequency to overcome 6800 series, but they didn't even beat NVIDIA on that.
NVIDIA is better built that it doesn't need higher frequency ot be able to achieve those nice sweety candy marks. And also NVIDIA 6800 series has more functions than ATi X800XT series like SM3, Ultra Shadow II, bla bla oh and price are still lower than any ATi cards.
How are they "outdated"? Because they have a higher Mhz? That silly talk. ATi had a MUCH lower core Mhz with the 9700 Pro, and it still beat the 5800U in most games. That doesnt make the 5800U outdated. You cant judge hardware like that when the architecture is so different.
It doesnt make it "better built" because it isnt as fast Mhz wise. The 6800's has more transistors than the X800's too. Guess you forgot about that. You also seemed to have forgotten about 3Dc, and temporal AA as ATi features. The MSRP is the same for both brands of cards, so your price argument is void as well.
Really, try to be more objective.
AgentxofxChaos
Agent of [H] Chaos
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2002
- Messages
- 4,226
Kick ass Kyle, I can't wait to read the review. I have been holding out on upgrading my system due to lack of cash, but I'm definitely going to start saving up, getting another job soon since my back is feeling better. I will definitely be using your guide as a BIG reference, since Doom 3 was pretty much the game I was most excited about all year. Since I have been a fan of the series since it the orignals were released and am really excited about this one, the return of the awesome game i got started on. What you guys are doing is awesome. Keep up the good work, play [H]ard, stay [H]ard. You guys rock.
The Batman
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2004
- Messages
- 1,531
Well 60 million transistors are going to SM3, so remove 60 from 220 and you get 160, which is about the same as the X800 cards.
Flashing the BIOS and overclocking is a different animal than just simply overclocking. A lot more can go wrong with a BIOS flash. If you get a bad OC you can reset the clock speeds. If you get a bad BIOS flash you're in for a world of hurt.Tremek said:
I thought you were talking about the AIW model.Tremek said:
Anyways, you will still have 4 less piplines than the XT. Will that make a difference? Yes. How dramatic will it be in Doom III... only time will tell.
I think why Doom III benchmarks are important is because that game stresses video cards much more than Far Cry or similar. Getting any of the latest generation ATI or NVIDIA cards to run Far Cry smooth is not that hard to accomplish, it's kind of a given that it will run well. Getting Doom III to run smooth at high detail is much more of an accomplishment and is something to shoot for.
xSyzygy666x
Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2004
- Messages
- 534
if i had a choice pro or GT....id go GT hands down......ultra and XT id go XT....but its all about price......gt is better deal than the pro (dont even deny it....4 pipes) and the XT is a better card than the ultra.....
Tremek said:
Considering the Doom3 engine is the sign of things to come, games based off of that architecture will be the soul of oodles of fly titles in the next 2-3 years. Reading the financials of Doom3, the licensing of the engine is gonna garner them much bank. So why would we in the [H] community, not embrace such a dope combination? "Outside" of said competion games, wont be in said competion in the next couple quarters and these ATI cards will be showing their age sooner that the nVidia's IMO.
The ATI may run older stuff better now but I'd be willing to sacrafice a few FPS on the older titles to ensure my video card still has life for the new ones. Those latest HL2 benches I saw made me glad I didn't impulse buy the x800 Pro when I could have. I dont own either right now so I have a non-owner biased opinon on your question. That does answer your question right?
Stanley Pain
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2001
- Messages
- 2,510
Tremek said:
It's those 4 piplines that really make a difference. Would be nice if someone figured out how to "enable" that. That is if they are only "disabled" on the pro cards.