id Software likes always-online DRM

Plague_Injected

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http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-10-id-software-on-always-on-internet-debate

[id Creative Director Tim Willits says], "Diablo 3 will make everyone else accept the fact you have to be connected," he said. "If you have a juggernaut, you can make change. I'm all for that. If we could force people to always be connected when you play the game, and then have that be acceptable, awesome."

Explaining his view, Willits said always being online would enable developers to improve games without intruding on the gamer.

"In the end, it's better for everybody," he said. "Imagine picking up a game and it's automatically updated. Or there's something new you didn't know about, and you didn't have to click away. It's all automatically there. But it does take juggernauts like [Diablo 3] to make change.

"I'm a big proponent of always connected. I'm always connected. Our fans are always connected.

"There will be a few people who will resent the fact you have to be online to play a single-player game. But it'll change."

Well, the advantages Willits is baning on about are already provided by Steam - with an Offline Mode to boot (as dicey as it can be sometimes). And if there is something new you still have to click away since most of the time you have to buy "new somethings". So no, you don't need to be "always-online" to enjoy those benefits.
 

Q-BZ

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With a sinking feeling of dread, this is the way I figured things were headed.

I guess my days as a gamer are numbered.
 

mjz_5

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i'm always online when i play steam games.. as long as no funny business is being installed on my computer, then i wont worry
 

Dan_D

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Anyone ever have their internet connection go out and all you've got to do in order to pass the time until the repairman gets there is play games. How can you do that if everything goes to an always connected model?

That's a bunch of crap.
 

Tudz

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Looks like Fail will be giving up gaming for good.

I'm none too happy about this either though. People bitch non stop about the limitations imposed by consolisation yet are happy to lap up the limitations of having server based single player content. I think stuff like this is leading to the eventual death of PC gaming as we know it faster than consolisation. We're quickly approaching the point where the only advantage to PC gaming is being able to use a keyboard and mouse and being able to play at a higher resolution.
 

Q-BZ

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Anyone ever have their internet connection go out and all you've got to do in order to pass the time until the repairman gets there is play games. How can you do that if everything goes to an always connected model?

That's a bunch of crap.

What's even worse is: What if you have the best Internet in the world and everything is great but something goes wrong either in between you and source or at the source itself?

Apologists for this keep dancing around that pesky fact every time.
 

Ruoh

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Anyone ever have their internet connection go out and all you've got to do in order to pass the time until the repairman gets there is play games. How can you do that if everything goes to an always connected model?

That's a bunch of crap.

That great big ball of fire in the sky must really burn you, man. ;)
 

defiant007

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That great big ball of fire in the sky must really burn you, man. ;)

Not everyone who plays video games is a student with unlimited time on their hands. If you work full time, are married, have kids, have social/family commitments, etc you have very limited windows of opportunity to enjoy some peace and quiet in front of the PC.

You miss out on that window of opportunity because the net goes down or authentication servers go spastic, you are left with no choice but to wait a couple of days until you can get to play again.

As a paying customer, that simply pisses me off.
 

Monkey God

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Companies do and think whats in their best interest, not that of their customers.
I will be forgoing Diablo 3 and going with Torchlight 2. Vote with your wallet.
 

Q-BZ

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Companies do and think whats in their best interest, not that of their customers.
I will be forgoing Diablo 3 and going with Torchlight 2. Vote with your wallet.

Exactly.

What I fear, however, is a growing trend for this kind of nonsense where my wallet voting options continue to shrink.
 

Snowdog

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Anything that requires a remote server is a rental and not a purchase. I don't pay $50 to rent a game.

I simply stopped buying new games when they went to any remote server requirements.

I play old games and indie games and I don't feel any loss. I am even getting friends back into older games (Like NWN).

Awesome thing about older games. They have free internet multiplayer, Lan play etc, low graphics requirements.
 

Domingo

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This really doesn't affect me right now, but I am afraid of this idea once "unlimited" internet starts going away.
 

Ruoh

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Not everyone who plays video games is a student with unlimited time on their hands. If you work full time, are married, have kids, have social/family commitments, etc you have very limited windows of opportunity to enjoy some peace and quiet in front of the PC.

No need to preach to the choir, I leave at 5AM, and don't get home until about 7:15PM, after a pretty normal 12.5-13 hour day at work. My wife doesn't grief me for being on the computer for all of an hour and a half before bed because she knows it's relaxing.

However, if your at home during the day, waiting for a repair person, it's not going to kill you to get some yard work done before said repairman shows up.
 

TheWeazmeister

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Looks like Fail will be giving up gaming for good.

I'm none too happy about this either though. People bitch non stop about the limitations imposed by consolisation yet are happy to lap up the limitations of having server based single player content. I think stuff like this is leading to the eventual death of PC gaming as we know it faster than consolisation. We're quickly approaching the point where the only advantage to PC gaming is being able to use a keyboard and mouse and being able to play at a higher resolution.

+1, yeah it does seem to be heading that way. If I can't even enjoy a simple SP game without having to be online...

Anyone ever have their internet connection go out and all you've got to do in order to pass the time until the repairman gets there is play games. How can you do that if everything goes to an always connected model?

That's a bunch of crap.

No shit. My gaming time is limited between work, wife, kids, w/e. If I really want to game and it's SP and something like this gets in the way?

That great big ball of fire in the sky must really burn you, man. ;)

Riiight, because Dan like so many of us, lives in the basement of his parent's house, never sees the light of day, blah blah blah....
 

TheWeazmeister

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However, if your at home during the day, waiting for a repair person, it's not going to kill you to get some yard work done before said repairman shows up.

I pay someone to do the yard work. I am glad you enjoy menial tasks, I don't. There are plenty of better things for me to do on my list of enjoyable things to do.
 

Monkey God

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Exactly.

What I fear, however, is a growing trend for this kind of nonsense where my wallet voting options continue to shrink.

There will always be niche independent developers. A little hard to find maybe, but Steam helps alot with this.
 

Ruoh

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I pay someone to do the yard work. I am glad you enjoy menial tasks, I don't. There are plenty of better things for me to do on my list of enjoyable things to do.

Each to their own. I *enjoy* getting my hands dirty from time to time. Reminds me of what humans are supposed to do.
 

TheWeazmeister

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Each to their own. I *enjoy* getting my hands dirty from time to time. Reminds me of what humans are supposed to do.

You'll have to send me this "manual" that tells us what humans are "supposed" to do. :rolleyes:
 

Tudz

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Each to their own. I *enjoy* getting my hands dirty from time to time. Reminds me of what humans are supposed to do.

Yeah exactly... we should all just stop gaming completely. Who the fuck needs it when you can get your hands dirty instead. ;)
 

Ruoh

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You'll have to send me this "manual" that tells us what humans are "supposed" to do. :rolleyes:

Go ask a doctor what the human body does after sitting in a chair for 20+ years.

I think you get my point, but are just ignoring it for trolling sake. Lets get back on topic.
 

TheWeazmeister

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Go ask a doctor what the human body does after sitting in a chair for 20+ years.

I think you get my point, but are just ignoring it for trolling sake. Lets get back on topic.

Actually, studies show that within 20mins of being seated you experience negative effect on your body. Heck for that matter, that porcelain throne you sit on, isn't healthy or designed to be efficient either...That his neither here, nor now.

Speaking of trolling, don't you have some weeds to whack? If you have something more useful to add to the thread than your last posts, go ahead, be my guest. Otherwise, who you calling troll, troll?
 

Litfod

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It's just irritating that these people can't be honest about why the always-connected model appeals to them as businesses, and try and pretend it's all for the good of the consumer. At least Blizzard can pretend D3 is some sort of cut-down MMO, but id? Sure, MP will require a connection but what exactly would they offer people playing their SP games? Is auto-updating really the best they can come up with? Meanwhile they rub their hands at the thought of in-game micro-transactions and stamping out the used market.
 

TheWeazmeister

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It's just irritating that these people can't be honest about why the always-connected model appeals to them as businesses, and try and pretend it's all for the good of the consumer. At least Blizzard can pretend D3 is some sort of cut-down MMO, but id? Sure, MP will require a connection but what exactly would they offer people playing their SP games? Is auto-updating really the best they can come up with? Meanwhile they rub their hands at the thought of in-game micro-transactions and stamping out the used market.

Exactly this. There is literally ZERO incentive for the consumer to have a always-on connection to gaming servers in single player. Cheating? Perhaps they haven't heard of "cheat codes" at iD:rolleyes:
 

Ruoh

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Speaking of trolling, don't you have some weeds to whack? If you have something more useful to add to the thread than your last posts, go ahead, be my guest. Otherwise, who you calling troll, troll?

Actually, no, I have medical care to authorize. Thanks for assuming though!

For my part, always on DRM doesn't bother me. My net connection rarely, if ever, goes down. If it does, I can always tether with my phone, or, as previously mentioned, go do something else. It's no different to me then when WoW would go down, I'd find something else to do.
 

Thuleman

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Anyone ever have their internet connection go out and all you've got to do in order to pass the time until the repairman gets there is play games. How can you do that if everything goes to an always connected model?
So what you are saying is that game publishers who look at the data of millions of customers who collectively log billions of hours online should adjust their business practices to account for statistical outliers? Like way way out there outliers?

Nevermind this being an absurd argument in itself, the claim that all you have to do to pass time is play games is equally questionable.

What if the power goes out? Should game publishers provide a generator?
What if your rig can't play the game because it's too old? Should game publishers provide you with a new computer?
What if you can't afford Internet? Should publishers subsidize your access?
etc. etc. please get real.
 

Youn

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Reminds me of what humans are supposed to do.
I thought we were suppose to play video games and NOT get our hands dirty. Farmville anyone? :)

I find the online-at-all-time things sad, as I don not have internet at home. Shucks... guess I will have to get it for this game... ffs that guys from id is such a moron i always want to punch him in the face when he starts talking... maybe that is what humans are suppose to do, punch that guy in the face? Let us all do it together at the same time... I have no idea about anything anymore...
 

PrincessFrosty

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With a sinking feeling of dread, this is the way I figured things were headed.

I guess my days as a gamer are numbered.

That's how I've felt about the whole gaming scene for a number of years now, I'm on the brink of just giving in and becoming a full on casual gamer. Already got a PS3, enjoying just having a swing about on LBP2 at the moment while all the high profile PC games fall completely flat on their face in complete and total embarrassment.
 

DeathCloud

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Anyone ever have their internet connection go out and all you've got to do in order to pass the time until the repairman gets there is play games. How can you do that if everything goes to an always connected model?

That's a bunch of crap.

I know this is a touchy subject around here but this will making more people download cracks for games.
 

Tudz

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So what you are saying is that game publishers who look at the data of millions of customers who collectively log billions of hours online should adjust their business practices to account for statistical outliers? Like way way out there outliers?

Like I mentioned in the D3 thread a moment ago...

"A good dev/publisher makes the problems of their gamers their own problem too instead of just leaving them high and dry. CDProjekt was an example I used of doing the right thing by Aussies who were forced to buy a censored game at inflated prices... that probably represents less than 1% of their customer base and only the enthusiasts would probably even know about it so maybe 0.5% of their customer base. But CDProjekt still made it their problem and arranged the files such that a simple copy/paste would remove censorship, and GoG changed their terms and conditions to allow people (ie. Aussies) choose their own location (ie. not Australia to avoid high prices)."

What if the power goes out? Should game publishers provide a generator?
That's an absurd comparison because it is not within the publisher's power to do that.
What if your rig can't play the game because it's too old? Should game publishers provide you with a new computer?
Ummm, devs already deal with that by having multiple graphics settings, allowing you to play on a range of hardware. Would you rather they only allowed you to play on Very High, forcing you to buy a new PC every 6 months?
What if you can't afford Internet? Should publishers subsidize your access?
Subsidise what exactly? Do you know the meaning of the word? If anything offline gamers would subsidise online gamers by not using servers that are costing money :p They are removing a feature that has existed for years. There's no subsidising of offline gamers. Get real, pubs are doing this to kill an already small 2nd hand market and extend further control over gamers. Some of the things you love about PC gaming like adaptability and mods are going to die and be replaced by being locked in to settings and over priced DLC.
etc. etc. please get real.

We are real man, WE ARE REAL!! :p
 

cageymaru

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Anyone ever have their internet connection go out and all you've got to do in order to pass the time until the repairman gets there is play games. How can you do that if everything goes to an always connected model?

That's a bunch of crap.

I agree with you 100%!

Yesterday a drunk driver ran into a telephone pole near my home knocking out the internet for nearly 24 hours. If it wasn't for Steam offline mode I don't know what I would have done. When ID, Blizzard, etc figure out how to stop random acts of god, vandals like the Verizon line cutters, spotty internet, airline flights, people who live out in the boonies, then they can talk.

Until then I'll just skip those titles like usual. I have almost 170 games in my Steam library that support offline modes. There is 0 pressure to be forced to purchase games that require a permanent internet connection for a single player game. Before I'd waste my money on one I'd rather start rebuilding my 30 year old Ford pickup truck.
 

michael.pa2

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What exactly has iD done in recent years that I should care what they think? If Rage actually turns out to be good,it'll be the first in ages. I don't understand people who treat every word that comes out of Carmack's mouth as gospel.
 

cageymaru

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So what you are saying is that game publishers who look at the data of millions of customers who collectively log billions of hours online should adjust their business practices to account for statistical outliers? Like way way out there outliers?

Nevermind this being an absurd argument in itself, the claim that all you have to do to pass time is play games is equally questionable.

What if the power goes out? Should game publishers provide a generator?
What if your rig can't play the game because it's too old? Should game publishers provide you with a new computer?
What if you can't afford Internet? Should publishers subsidize your access?
etc. etc. please get real.

Maybe the publisher can provide an offline mode for single player? Is it that hard to do?

Let me rephrase it in a less confrontational way; why shouldn't there be an offline mode for single player games like it has been since the 1980's when I started PC gaming? I don't see this as a CD vs Cassette vs MP3 argument. This is more of a publisher inconveniencing customers so they can say they have better DRM than the last guy. The cracked .exe scene keeps going on without a hitch, while guys like me that are actively trying to purchase legal software to support devs like Carmack are getting shit on.

All it does is make me reminisce cracking games when I couldn't afford them. They all worked fine, got regular updates as we got cracked patches just as fast as the paying customer, and no headaches. Ethically I felt like crap and stopped cold turkey in favor of purchasing my games. But I refuse to be treated like a thief for actually supporting my favorite devs.

I do not advocate cracking as before I'd go back to that I'd rather finish my shop and work on some classic cars. These developers are forgetting that this is a hobby we choose to support; and not a requirement for living or happiness.
 

Tudz

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I do not advocate cracking as before I'd go back to that I'd rather finish my shop and work on some classic cars. These developers are forgetting that this is a hobby we choose to support; and not a requirement for living or happiness.

Yep, if gaming goes down a road that I consider shit I'll be quitting and I dont see me having any issues quitting or regretting quitting, its not like a crack addiction, haha.
 

Monkey God

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What exactly has iD done in recent years that I should care what they think? If Rage actually turns out to be good,it'll be the first in ages. I don't understand people who treat every word that comes out of Carmack's mouth as gospel.

People listen to what he has to say because hes been in the industry for 20 years and knows WTF he is doing. id essentially invented the first person shooter.
 
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