IB soon, need CPU cooler..help / recommendations?

[NathanP2007]

Okay so besides stock coolers on CPU's, my only experience with higher end/third party CPU coolers is with the Hyper 212+ (have bought 3 of them for 3 separate PC's i liked them so much). But then again i have only had to cool a E5200 at 3.8Ghz and a Q9550 at 3.6Ghz... definitely not anywhere near pushing their thermal boundaries.

So, i will be getting a 3770K and reviews are saying they can OC stable to about 4.6-4.7ish, and if thats true i will probably OC mine to 4.5-4.6. However i have no clue what type of cooling to get. What are your [H]ard opinions on pho-watercoolers like the Corsair H70/H100 etc? Also, in general what is your recommendation(s) on what cooler you would get if you were buying a 3770K (or have a similar SB equivalent).

Only other things i know for sure, are that i am not going to go with real water cooling, and that the rig this new PC will be on is the HighSpeed PC Tech Bench ( http://www.highspeedpc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=TopDeckXL )

(Though at some point its possible i will put the PC inside my empty HAF 932).


5-4-2012 NEW QUESTION: Current dilemma going through my head, is that if i get the Hyper 212 Evo ($35) and i want a second fan, i should just buy two new fans that will be super quiet. Those would be Noctua NF-P12's, which are $25 each. So in total the Hyper 212 Evo + 2x P12's would be $85.
Now there is something that i THINK is awesome but dont know for fact, and that is the Evo's unique thing about it is its heatpipes are in direct full contact with the CPU shield.

However i know the Noctua NH-D14 is $90 after rebate, the H80 is $90, and there are a few others in that price range. Are they all pretty equal in cooling performance?

 

[Forceman]

Unless you want to clear room inside a case, or exhaust hot air directly outside the case, then the mid-range all-in-one water coolers aren't really any better than comparable air cooling. The H100 would be a step up, but for me at least, at too high a cost. I'd just get a decent tower air cooler and call it good.

 

[Tsumi]

On that test bench or in the HAF 932, I would just simply get a traditional tower cooler. Hyper 212+ would probably more than sufficient at keeping temps in control at 4.5 ghz. It's at speeds above 4.5 ghz that temps go skyrocket on IB.

 

[NathanP2007]

Lol all that to just end up with the recommendation of "get a third Hyper 212+" lol, but hey! I got three for a reason, they rock. I already kinda knew but wanted to confirm or deny that those all in one watercoolers were on par with a great heatsink tower cooler. And its been confirmed. I agree the H100 is too expensive, also its radiator is very big for my techbench.

Just curious, does anyone know the name of, or a link to, a certain product i have seen on youtube (linus YT channel). They are little elastic strings that you use instead of the screws, to mount fans to your heatsink (other applications as well). But a really great way to connect fans to things and remove any vibration/noise.

And lastly, i assume by your recommendation for for the Hyper 212+...that they are still the favorite Tower cooler? I havent actually looked to see if there are any new ones or anything that are now the new "it" tower cooler.

 

[Tsumi]

Hyper 212+ is still a popular budget cooler, but it has been replaced by the Hyper 212 Evo, an updated and better performing version of the 212+. Other competing choices will be the Corsair A50 (single fan only), or the Corsair A70 (single or dual fan).

Those elastic thingys are designed only to really work on case mounting, where you use screw-through holes to secure it. What you might want is to get a silicone gasket like this. Although, the Evo uses the screw type mounting, so you can use something like this.

 

[NathanP2007]

Hyper 212+ is still a popular budget cooler, but it has been replaced by the Hyper 212 Evo, an updated and better performing version of the 212+. Other competing choices will be the Corsair A50 (single fan only), or the Corsair A70 (single or dual fan).

Those elastic thingys are designed only to really work on case mounting, where you use screw-through holes to secure it. What you might want is to get a silicone gasket like this. Although, the Evo uses the screw type mounting, so you can use something like this.

Im inclined to stick with a Tower cooler if they are equal choices in both performance and pricing, just considering the newegg reviews, some Corsair seem to have noises and liquid issues, i also would prefer a hunk of metal lasting forever over a liquid-all-in-one, i dont know how long that will last.

Thank you for the links! And major thanks regarding the Evo! I had no clue and now will check it out.

 

[PureQuaternion]

I went with the H100. I did initially have some noise issues, but I think it was mostly just air bubbles. They've subsided now after running the rig for a while. YMMV.

The thing I hate about air coolers is the extreme weight. I decided that I'd rather have that weight supported by the case than by the board. Also, the radiator solution ensures that the hot air is immediately leaving the case.

Keep in mind the H100 is pretty sizable when choosing a case.

 

[Jbort1984]

I went with a h100 actual got mine cheap off ebay for 62+8 shipping. With it being mounted in the top of my nzxt phantom with 2x120 mounted under it blowing out and the 2 200mm sucking out of my case i have a 2600k @ 5ghz using 1.37vand my temps normally dont see 50c unless its hot in my room i run idle at about 33c. Im also against large tower coolers because of the weight on the motherboard i also think they make my case look cluttered.

 

[Forceman]

Im inclined to stick with a Tower cooler if they are equal choices in both performance and pricing, just considering the newegg reviews, some Corsair seem to have noises and liquid issues, i also would prefer a hunk of metal lasting forever over a liquid-all-in-one, i dont know how long that will last.

Thank you for the links! And major thanks regarding the Evo! I had no clue and now will check it out.

The A50 and A70 are Corsair's tower air coolers. Not sure if you got that from Tsumi's post.

 

[NathanP2007]

The A50 and A70 are Corsair's tower air coolers. Not sure if you got that from Tsumi's post.

Oh im sorry, i didnt know that. I'll check those out.

 

[Jbort1984]

A70 is a pretty good working cooler i had that before the H series aio coolers came out

 

[NathanP2007]

A70 is a pretty good working cooler i had that before the H series aio coolers came out

And whats your opinion considering you owned both a Corsair air cooler and one of their Hydro coolers? Was it worth it? Apparently the consensus is they are basically equal, except the H100, but its typically so pricey that its not worth the addition cooling effectiveness it brings to the table.
Im liking the Hyper 212 Evo from the video i saw, showing its difference between it and the +, it being the heatpipes meet into one heatpipe on the bottom (where it touches the CPU), none of the corsair A coolers have it that way, close but not fully. More contact of the pipes to the CPU and the better the cooling.

 

[Deleted member 88227]

You should be fine with a CM 212+ as others have said.

 

[Samwiches]

STOP..

OP, you need to learn about tempeatures in Ivy Bridge prcoessors. The 22nm process and "tri-gate" transistors create much more heat than anyone expected, despite lower power requirements.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1242313/...ormance-temps-etc-couple-of-ln2-scores-are-up

^This guy tested a 3770K and 3570K on CHILLED WATER @ 4C. At around 1.30v and 4700MHz load temps shoot up to 80+ degrees.

Hardly anyone has done much testing yet on air, but I'll bet anything that a Hyper 212 won't handle an Ivy Bridge at speeds much higher than stock.

 

[Forceman]

STOP..

OP, you need to learn about tempeatures in Ivy Bridge prcoessors. The 22nm process and "tri-gate" transistors create much more heat than anyone expected, despite lower power requirements.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1242313/...ormance-temps-etc-couple-of-ln2-scores-are-up

^This guy tested a 3770K and 3570K on CHILLED WATER @ 4C. At around 1.30v and 4700MHz load temps shoot up to 80+ degrees.

Hardly anyone has done much testing yet on air, but I'll bet anything that a Hyper 212 won't handle an Ivy Bridge at speeds much higher than stock.

Plenty of sites did their reviews on air, and they were able to overclock to reasonable levels without too many problems. It's only when you jack up the voltage (and 1.3V is a LOT) that you run into big problems. Keep the volts around 1.1 and you'll be fine with a decent air cooler like the 212+.

 

[NathanP2007]

STOP..

OP, you need to learn about tempeatures in Ivy Bridge prcoessors. The 22nm process and "tri-gate" transistors create much more heat than anyone expected, despite lower power requirements.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1242313/...ormance-temps-etc-couple-of-ln2-scores-are-up

^This guy tested a 3770K and 3570K on CHILLED WATER @ 4C. At around 1.30v and 4700MHz load temps shoot up to 80+ degrees.

Hardly anyone has done much testing yet on air, but I'll bet anything that a Hyper 212 won't handle an Ivy Bridge at speeds much higher than stock.

If thats true, that kinda implies that water cooling would be the only way to go. Your saying high end tower coolers (such as the 212+/Evo) wont hold up, and coolers like the H70 are on par cooling wise with the likes of 212+, and the H100 is a bit better than both but not much, so your only option left would be Watercooling. And im not going there.

I hope to OC my 3770K to 4.5 and it be 100% stable and i'l just leave it there.

 

[pelo]

You can likely hit ~4.5ghz with a decent air cooler, like a 212+, but don't expect to get any higher than that unless you're willing to invest in serious water cooling or more expensive air cooling.

At 4.4GHz, we see that our chip is stable as low as 1.05 volts, which is around the stock voltage for this processor (or in other words, a free 500 MHz overclock). But what we see with increasing voltage is alarming. Temperatures very quickly gets north of 90C if automatic settings are not set at an appropriate level. It could be hazardous for system builders just to go straight to 1.200 volts and set a target speed without monitoring the long term effects (given dust and age, these temperatures may rise).

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5763/undervolting-and-overclocking-on-ivy-bridge

Note the spike after 1.1vcore.

These results were using an Intel liquid cooler, which isn't a great cooler but still better than your typical air cooler.

 

[NathanP2007]

Interesting thank you for that info. I am glad im not a big OC pusher of the limits cause like others i'd probably be disappointed in Ivy, but iv always been a "i'll OC it, but just a bit and il be happy". What i will be disappointed about is if they do release a revision 3770K that fixes the problem in like 2-5 months and people will start getting 5Ghz OC fairly easy. Granted i'll be happy for everyone else, but it would suck a bit for me.
However from what i gather, its heat issues have (most likely) more to do with how they shrunk the die and the overall design of the new IB CPU...that its not some thing they can revise persay, its just the new ballgame when you change what they did with IB.

 

[pelo]

I don't think a new stepping is planned and you're right in that issues seem to point to transistor density rather than a sign of an immature process. It might be that some later chips are slightly cooler but I highly doubt there will be a significant difference because, as you've noted already, this seems to be a transistor density and die size problem and the architecture won't change until we see IB-E/Haswell.

If I were you I'd just reuse the Hyper 212+ and get it to a comfortable speed

 

[NathanP2007]

I don't think a new stepping is planned and you're right in that issues seem to point to transistor density rather than a sign of an immature process. It might be that some later chips are slightly cooler but I highly doubt there will be a significant difference because, as you've noted already, this seems to be a transistor density and die size problem and the architecture won't change until we see IB-E/Haswell.

If I were you I'd just reuse the Hyper 212+ and get it to a comfortable speed

Thanks, totally agree. (Cant reuse, its part of PC im selling to brother, but will get 212 Evo).

 

[Jbort1984]

A70 is a nice air cooler and does a fantatsic job but the h100 helped me push my cpu to the 5+ghz barrier and has done phenominal at cooling me weather its 100 in my room or 60

 

[Samwiches]

Plenty of sites did their reviews on air, and they were able to overclock to reasonable levels without too many problems. It's only when you jack up the voltage (and 1.3V is a LOT) that you run into big problems. Keep the volts around 1.1 and you'll be fine with a decent air cooler like the 212+.

But 1.10v on IB basically means stock clocks unless you expect something above average to come out of your chip and cooling purchases, or think that whatever samples have been released so far are not representative of the launch product (but they are the same---no reported batch updates from intel will come in time for launch).

Best results on IB that I've heard of are roughly 4800MHz @ 1.22v and 75C on a Megahalems.

 

[ELox]

But 1.10v on IB basically means stock clocks.

Best results on IB that I've heard of are roughly are 4800MHz @ 1.22v and 75C on a Megahalems.

We can see in the review charts posted on page 1 that 1.10v was good for 4.5Ghz. That's quite a bit better than stock unless I misunderstood you.

 

[Forceman]

But 1.10v on IB basically means stock clocks unless you expect something above average to come out of your chip and cooling purchases, or think that whatever samples have been released so far are not representative of the launch product (but they are the same---no reported batch updates from intel will come in time for launch).

Best results on IB that I've heard of are roughly are 4800MHz @ 1.22v and 75C on a Megahalems.

Mosrt sites seemed to get 4.4 or 4.5 out of the chip at either stock volts or 1.1V - and that's roughly equivalent to 4.7 on a SB, which isn't bad at all.

 

[Samwiches]

Sorry, I consider that a bare minimum overclock. I just spent a month in a huge Sandy Bridge thread, read through over 300 submitted stable clocks past 4200MHz, and only the crappiest of them topped at 4500MHz.

With IB needing ~90% (edit: no.. 95%) of the same clocks to basically equal SB performance, 4500MHz better be EASY, or IB is a dud. (I understand sub-SB owners may still want to make something out of it.)

I'm just not optimistic given the temps and available air cooling.

 

[ELox]

Fair enough, but this fellow wants to achieve 4.5 which from what I understand will perform more like a 4.7 Sandy anyways and not all Sandy's can get past 4.7 does that make them all duds or is 4.7 about average anyways with a basic air cooler? If he can achieve 4.5 with a 1.10v and a cheap CM212+ cooler then it really isn't that far off a basic Sandy overclock.

Just because a Sandy can get up to about 4.9 with quite a bit more tinkering and a better cooler really doesn't matter to someone that is just looking for a reasonable 4.5Ghz simple overclock which it looks like an IB can achieve just as well as a Sandy.

To be honest I'm building a IB looking for a 4.5Ghz OC as well as soon as the chips are available and I think I should be able to achieve that pretty well with a cheap $20 CM212+ air cooler as long as I can keep my vcore at 1.10. If I can match a Sandy 4.7OC then I will be pretty pleased.

 

[Samwiches]

I understand. But again with the SB comparison:

4200 = automatic
4500 = first noob steps to OC
4700 = average

So yeah, 4700 needs to be doable on IB but without hitting 90C every day (if max is 105). And the fact that most of the planet is going into Summer right now makes a combo CPU + MOBO purchase look kinda risky.

But then, I forgot what thread I was in.. OP wants cooler.

 

[NathanP2007]

No please go ahead, this discussion is what im interested in as far as OC/IB/Cooling is concerned. Are we positive yet that the retail versions will have that TIM or w/e its called that we are assuming is the reason for crap temps?
I guess why i dont have any problem with going above "noob" level OC as you stated, is because even at stock clocks i wont be stressing a 3770K with the likes of Skyrim or BF3 (etc). I dont do anything truely CPU intensive that OC'ing to 5.0Ghz might shave seconds off of. The difference between 3.9Ghz stock and 4.5Ghz OC with a 3770K will probably be 1-2FPS in BF3 more. So no biggy. Though i dont like the CPU getting so hot..considering heat=bad when it comes to electronic components.

 

[Forceman]

No please go ahead, this discussion is what im interested in as far as OC/IB/Cooling is concerned. Are we positive yet that the retail versions will have that TIM or w/e its called that we are assuming is the reason for crap temps?
I guess why i dont have any problem with going above "noob" level OC as you stated, is because even at stock clocks i wont be stressing a 3770K with the likes of Skyrim or BF3 (etc). I dont do anything truely CPU intensive that OC'ing to 5.0Ghz might shave seconds off of. The difference between 3.9Ghz stock and 4.5Ghz OC with a 3770K will probably be 1-2FPS in BF3 more. So no biggy. Though i dont like the CPU getting so hot..considering heat=bad when it comes to electronic components.

No one knows yet for sure, but there have been reports that retail chips have TIM instead of solder.

I would submit to you that it doesn't really matter - it seems like you'll be able to get 4.4/4.5 out of Ivy without too much trouble (although that's based on a limited sample) and that is going to be equal to 4.6/4.7 on a SB - which is a pretty good overclock. For any normal use you aren't going to see the difference between 4.2 and 4.8 anyway, so unless you are looking for bragging rights, or have a real need for the little extra performance, I think you'll be hapy with Ivy and a 212+.

 

[Tisca]

TIM is not the reason. It's been tested, check the other thread.

No one knows yet for sure, but there have been reports that retail chips have TIM instead of solder.

I would submit to you that it doesn't really matter - it seems like you'll be able to get 4.4/4.5 out of Ivy without too much trouble (although that's based on a limited sample) and that is going to be equal to 4.6/4.7 on a SB - which is a pretty good overclock. For any normal use you aren't going to see the difference between 4.2 and 4.8 anyway, so unless you are looking for bragging rights, or have a real need for the little extra performance, I think you'll be hapy with Ivy and a 212+.

No please go ahead, this discussion is what im interested in as far as OC/IB/Cooling is concerned. Are we positive yet that the retail versions will have that TIM or w/e its called that we are assuming is the reason for crap temps?
I guess why i dont have any problem with going above "noob" level OC as you stated, is because even at stock clocks i wont be stressing a 3770K with the likes of Skyrim or BF3 (etc). I dont do anything truely CPU intensive that OC'ing to 5.0Ghz might shave seconds off of. The difference between 3.9Ghz stock and 4.5Ghz OC with a 3770K will probably be 1-2FPS in BF3 more. So no biggy. Though i dont like the CPU getting so hot..considering heat=bad when it comes to electronic components.

 

[Tisca]

I'm also looking for a cooler for IB. The Hyper 212 Evo has been mentioned, does anyone know how it compares to the HR-02 MACHO? Same price on both.

EDIT: Looks like they perform the same but EVO running one stock fan at 1600rpm and Macho running one stock fan at 850rpm. Don't see any reason to choose Evo over Macho and the Macho is already small enough to allow high DIMMs.

 

[Forceman]

TIM is not the reason. It's been tested, check the other thread.

Replacing one type of TIM with another is not going to make any significant difference, if that is the test you are referring to. The only way to know for sure is going to be someone either soldering on an IHS (somehow) or running an cooler right on the core (which creates its own problems). I haven't seen that tested yet.

 

[ELox]

I understand. But again with the SB comparison:

4200 = automatic
4500 = first noob steps to OC
4700 = average

So yeah, 4700 needs to be doable on IB but without hitting 90C every day (if max is 105). And the fact that most of the planet is going into Summer right now makes a combo CPU + MOBO purchase look kinda risky.

But then, I forgot what thread I was in.. OP wants cooler.

In the Anandtech review linked earlier in the thread the ivy achieved 4.5Ghz (equiv to Sandy 4.7ish) with a peak temp of 68 in povray. This jumped up to 86 to hit 4.7Ghz (equiv to 4.9ish Sandy).

I'd say for the OP's 4.5Ghz planned OC that the temperatures are pretty reasonable. I'm pretty sure that a Sandy at 4.9ish is probably cooler than icy at 4.7ish (similar performance) so if heat is an issue AND he wants an above average overclock then I would recommend Sandy if he doesn't want any of the other benefits of Ivy.

If heat isn't an issue and the cpu lasts at the those temps then the max stable OC Anand achieved was 4.8Ghz equiv to a 5Ghz Sandy performance wise.

For a new build I think Ivy makes sense for many customers, just not for current sandy owners or hardcore ocers that care about heat.

 

[Samwiches]

OK, I think it would be awesome if Ivy Bridge ran with 90C 24/7 temps and no problems.

 

[Forceman]

OK, I think it would be awesome if Ivy Bridge ran with 90C 24/7 temps and no problems.

In theory it could run at 105C 24/7 with no problems. That's the point of setting the temperature limit - it is validated to run at that temperature.

I wouldn't do it though.

Edit: It would probably throttle below that, at some point, but you get the idea.

 

[swatX]

thermalright True Spirit 140

 

[endy0430]

H100

 

[Dephcon]

I'm enjoying the NH-D14 on my 3570K. My chip would need custom WC to be stable over 4.6Ghz, it all depends on how good your roll is

 

[NathanP2007]

thermalright True Spirit 140

Thanks, iv seen people recommend that one before, it looks good.

H100

3 Day noob with a one word recommendation which is the most expensive cooler of the ones im looking at with no explanation as to why....pass

I'm enjoying the NH-D14 on my 3570K. My chip would need custom WC to be stable over 4.6Ghz, it all depends on how good your roll is

Very Interesting, i like it a lot, its quite huge though (just a thought). I am 99% sure i am going to go with the Hyper 212 Evo guys. Thanks for all the recommendations.

 

[NathanP2007]

Current dilemma going through my head, is that if i get the Hyper 212 Evo ($35) and i want a second fan, i should just buy two new fans that will be super quiet. Those would be Noctua NF-P12's, which are $25 each. So in total the Hyper 212 Evo + 2x P12's would be $85.
Now there is something that i THINK is awesome but dont know for fact, and that is the Evo's unique thing about it is its heatpipes are in direct full contact with the CPU shield.

However i know the Noctua NH-D14 is $90 after rebate, the H80 is $90, and there are a few others in that price range. Are they all pretty equal in cooling performance?