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- Oct 19, 2004
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I am a PC tech, I got in a discussion with one of my other PC tech friends about the value of hyperthreading.
I found a video at Tom's hardware that pretty much sums up HT's value...IF my bud would watch this - the argument would be dead.
http://www4.tomshardware.com/images/thg_video_5_p4_ht.zip
I say it's 100% worthwhile - makes a computer feel snappier, he says its a joke. He's only ever had AMD, I've been in the Intel camp since the P4 1.6 @ 2.4 days.
My upgrade path has been this
Pentium 1 (133Mhz)
AMD 200
AMD K6-2 450
AMD Duron 600 @750ish
AMD Duron 800 @900ish
AMD T-Bird 1.1? @ 1.2ish
AMD T-bird 1.3? no overclock - limited by motherboard
P4 1.6a @ 2.4
P4 2.4b @ 2.8
P4 2.4c @ 3.0
P4 3.2c @ 3.7
My last AMD was a t-bird 1.33. I currently have a 3.2 Northwood overclocked to 3.7 at stock voltage.
For those interested in the long conversation...
Nelson says:
Just buy an AMD system.
Archaea:
no
Archaea:
i like my intel's stability
Archaea:
and hyperthreading RULES
Nelson says:
LoL
Nelson says:
hyperthreading is a joke.
Archaea:
it's not a joke
Archaea:
read - google it
Archaea:
makes a big difference in everyday usability
Nelson says:
I have.
Archaea:
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/print_content.asp?id=pentium4c&cookie_test=1
Archaea:
As we've shown in previous tests, Hyper-Threading can add anywhere from 5% to 30% performance gain in lots of applications, and is incredibly useful for heavy multi-taskers. While we were skeptical at first, Hyper-Threading really does make a heavy-usage system feel much smoother.
Archaea:
doesn't say anywhere in any review I've found that it's "a joke"
Archaea:
don't be arrogant next time if you don't know something
Nelson says:
"feel" isn't real world
Archaea:
it totally is
Archaea:
i've read that all over the net
Nelson says:
Never said I knew everything.
Archaea:
your system FEELS more reponsive
Nelson says:
this is the same as "my car FEELS" faster but isn't.
Archaea:
that's probably the most commonly noted opinions on hyperthreaded systems
Nelson says:
HT isn't worth getting tremendously excited about, anyway. It does provide a small speed boost, generally, provided your operating system and motherboard and are able to turn it on, which is not a problem for Win2000/XP and pretty much any current Socket 478 board. But a P4 with HT is not the same as a real dual-processor system. Both HT pseudo-processors are competing for the same resources from
Archaea:
i understand the concept
Archaea:
generally 15%
Archaea:
overall performance
Archaea:
BUT
the concept is that multitasking
Archaea:
which EVERYONE DOES in general everyday use
Archaea:
"feels" faster
Archaea:
because your computer acts as if it has two processors
Archaea:
and can manage the multitasking better
Archaea:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1152222,00.asp
Archaea:
believe me i've read up on this a lot, and having p4 for the last several cpu upgrades
Nelson says:
I don't need HT to act like there is two processors.
Archaea:
i've researched each time
Nelson says:
15% is a joke
Archaea:
granted only the last two have had hyperthreading
Archaea:
it's not
Archaea:
15% average
Archaea:
some have none
Archaea:
some have an actual dedregation with hyperthreading
Archaea:
some have a lot of benifit
Archaea:
but overall 15-30 % is what most review sites state
Archaea:
15% being a low ball park figure
Archaea:
and it's not just the 15%
Archaea:
that is not much
Archaea:
it's the fact that you can alt tab smoother, run winamp while doing other stuff
Archaea:
etc
Archaea:
because your processor splits up the threads its doing
Archaea:
playing a game goes to the core cpu
Archaea:
background tasks take the 2nd hyperthreaded piplines
Nelson says:
HT is a joke, and intel should of just went with DC.
Archaea:
i'm done talking to you
Archaea:
there are 100% unlimited google links that say hyperthreading is a very worthwhile alternative to an expensive (at the time it was introduced) dual processor solution
Archaea:
yet you keep saying it's a joke?
Archaea:
WHY?
Nelson says:
Because software solutions are a joke til the hardware makers can MAKE a new chip to do what they are intending. Unless the software is supposed to regulate how stuff is processed.
Nelson says:
HT is a software solution
Archaea:
it's not only software
Archaea:
there is a hardware component
Archaea:
managed through software yes
Archaea:
but so is EVERY pc component
Archaea:
and since the OS supports it
Archaea:
all applications thereby support it
Archaea:
it's a speed boost
Archaea:
and if you have the rather of speed boost or no
Archaea:
why not?
Nelson says:
no, not all applications support it.
Archaea:
yes it's not dual core
Archaea:
but it WAS a step in the dual core direction for those without dual core
Archaea:
and you'll be hard pressed- if not find it completely impossible - to find a person on the web who has had a hyperthreaded system and says they thought it was a joke....
Archaea:
it can be disabled in the bios
Archaea:
nobody does
Archaea:
not all singular applications support it --- no
Archaea:
but since the OS supports it
Archaea:
most things well
Archaea:
if in the fact that nothing else - alt tabbing to those programs works faster
Nelson says:
woohoo alt tab
Archaea:
the program coding ITSELF may not take advantage of the hyperthreading capability but the OS does
Archaea:
which means that multiple process threads going on at the same time will run better
Archaea:
so if you are encoding video and listening to an mp3....neither of those applications may directly support hyperthreading - but since the OS does...both processes will be smoother
Archaea:
encoding will be done quicker - etc.
Archaea:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2002/11/14/single_cpu_in_dual_operation/page25.html
Archaea:
quoted from tom's hardware
Archaea:
In real world situations the feel of Hyper-Threading is much better that our benchmarks actually show; this is why we also produced the video, which demonstrates this. Hyper-Threading is particularly beneficial when at least two applications are making heavy demands on the processor simultaneously.
Nelson says:
2002 is old.
Archaea:
that's when the technology came out
Archaea:
watch the video
Nelson says:
You stick with your HT and I will stick with real solutions, being hardware.
Archaea:
you don't have a "real" solution
Archaea:
and neither could you or i have afforded it in "2002"
Archaea:
yet we could afford Hyperthreading
Archaea:
and saying it's a joke is just being stubborn
Archaea:
dual core at the time HT came out was 3x's more than single
Archaea:
motherboards cost 2 to 3 times more than single processor motherboards
Archaea:
There was no such thing a dual core - just dual processor
Nelson says:
You pay for what you get.
Archaea:
bah
Archaea:
just realize that if you ever applied at a job i was interviewing for and said something and blatantly wrong as HT is a joke - you'd never get a job from me....
Nelson says:
I wouldn't want to work for you.
Nelson says:
=P
Nelson says:
specially if it was @ help desk
Archaea:
one last point...tom's hardware has a video that shows a p4 3.0 with HT enabled beating a p4 3.6 with HT disabled.
Archaea:
By a LONG time
Archaea:
you have to have divx to see the video
Archaea:
but here's the link
Archaea:
http://www4.tomshardware.com/images/thg_video_5_p4_ht.zip
I found a video at Tom's hardware that pretty much sums up HT's value...IF my bud would watch this - the argument would be dead.
http://www4.tomshardware.com/images/thg_video_5_p4_ht.zip
I say it's 100% worthwhile - makes a computer feel snappier, he says its a joke. He's only ever had AMD, I've been in the Intel camp since the P4 1.6 @ 2.4 days.
My upgrade path has been this
Pentium 1 (133Mhz)
AMD 200
AMD K6-2 450
AMD Duron 600 @750ish
AMD Duron 800 @900ish
AMD T-Bird 1.1? @ 1.2ish
AMD T-bird 1.3? no overclock - limited by motherboard
P4 1.6a @ 2.4
P4 2.4b @ 2.8
P4 2.4c @ 3.0
P4 3.2c @ 3.7
My last AMD was a t-bird 1.33. I currently have a 3.2 Northwood overclocked to 3.7 at stock voltage.
For those interested in the long conversation...
Nelson says:
Just buy an AMD system.
Archaea:
no
Archaea:
i like my intel's stability
Archaea:
and hyperthreading RULES
Nelson says:
LoL
Nelson says:
hyperthreading is a joke.
Archaea:
it's not a joke
Archaea:
read - google it
Archaea:
makes a big difference in everyday usability
Nelson says:
I have.
Archaea:
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/print_content.asp?id=pentium4c&cookie_test=1
Archaea:
As we've shown in previous tests, Hyper-Threading can add anywhere from 5% to 30% performance gain in lots of applications, and is incredibly useful for heavy multi-taskers. While we were skeptical at first, Hyper-Threading really does make a heavy-usage system feel much smoother.
Archaea:
doesn't say anywhere in any review I've found that it's "a joke"
Archaea:
don't be arrogant next time if you don't know something
Nelson says:
"feel" isn't real world
Archaea:
it totally is
Archaea:
i've read that all over the net
Nelson says:
Never said I knew everything.
Archaea:
your system FEELS more reponsive
Nelson says:
this is the same as "my car FEELS" faster but isn't.
Archaea:
that's probably the most commonly noted opinions on hyperthreaded systems
Nelson says:
HT isn't worth getting tremendously excited about, anyway. It does provide a small speed boost, generally, provided your operating system and motherboard and are able to turn it on, which is not a problem for Win2000/XP and pretty much any current Socket 478 board. But a P4 with HT is not the same as a real dual-processor system. Both HT pseudo-processors are competing for the same resources from
Archaea:
i understand the concept
Archaea:
generally 15%
Archaea:
overall performance
Archaea:
BUT
the concept is that multitasking
Archaea:
which EVERYONE DOES in general everyday use
Archaea:
"feels" faster
Archaea:
because your computer acts as if it has two processors
Archaea:
and can manage the multitasking better
Archaea:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1152222,00.asp
Archaea:
believe me i've read up on this a lot, and having p4 for the last several cpu upgrades
Nelson says:
I don't need HT to act like there is two processors.
Archaea:
i've researched each time
Nelson says:
15% is a joke
Archaea:
granted only the last two have had hyperthreading
Archaea:
it's not
Archaea:
15% average
Archaea:
some have none
Archaea:
some have an actual dedregation with hyperthreading
Archaea:
some have a lot of benifit
Archaea:
but overall 15-30 % is what most review sites state
Archaea:
15% being a low ball park figure
Archaea:
and it's not just the 15%
Archaea:
that is not much
Archaea:
it's the fact that you can alt tab smoother, run winamp while doing other stuff
Archaea:
etc
Archaea:
because your processor splits up the threads its doing
Archaea:
playing a game goes to the core cpu
Archaea:
background tasks take the 2nd hyperthreaded piplines
Nelson says:
HT is a joke, and intel should of just went with DC.
Archaea:
i'm done talking to you
Archaea:
there are 100% unlimited google links that say hyperthreading is a very worthwhile alternative to an expensive (at the time it was introduced) dual processor solution
Archaea:
yet you keep saying it's a joke?
Archaea:
WHY?
Nelson says:
Because software solutions are a joke til the hardware makers can MAKE a new chip to do what they are intending. Unless the software is supposed to regulate how stuff is processed.
Nelson says:
HT is a software solution
Archaea:
it's not only software
Archaea:
there is a hardware component
Archaea:
managed through software yes
Archaea:
but so is EVERY pc component
Archaea:
and since the OS supports it
Archaea:
all applications thereby support it
Archaea:
it's a speed boost
Archaea:
and if you have the rather of speed boost or no
Archaea:
why not?
Nelson says:
no, not all applications support it.
Archaea:
yes it's not dual core
Archaea:
but it WAS a step in the dual core direction for those without dual core
Archaea:
and you'll be hard pressed- if not find it completely impossible - to find a person on the web who has had a hyperthreaded system and says they thought it was a joke....
Archaea:
it can be disabled in the bios
Archaea:
nobody does
Archaea:
not all singular applications support it --- no
Archaea:
but since the OS supports it
Archaea:
most things well
Archaea:
if in the fact that nothing else - alt tabbing to those programs works faster
Nelson says:
woohoo alt tab
Archaea:
the program coding ITSELF may not take advantage of the hyperthreading capability but the OS does
Archaea:
which means that multiple process threads going on at the same time will run better
Archaea:
so if you are encoding video and listening to an mp3....neither of those applications may directly support hyperthreading - but since the OS does...both processes will be smoother
Archaea:
encoding will be done quicker - etc.
Archaea:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2002/11/14/single_cpu_in_dual_operation/page25.html
Archaea:
quoted from tom's hardware
Archaea:
In real world situations the feel of Hyper-Threading is much better that our benchmarks actually show; this is why we also produced the video, which demonstrates this. Hyper-Threading is particularly beneficial when at least two applications are making heavy demands on the processor simultaneously.
Nelson says:
2002 is old.
Archaea:
that's when the technology came out
Archaea:
watch the video
Nelson says:
You stick with your HT and I will stick with real solutions, being hardware.
Archaea:
you don't have a "real" solution
Archaea:
and neither could you or i have afforded it in "2002"
Archaea:
yet we could afford Hyperthreading
Archaea:
and saying it's a joke is just being stubborn
Archaea:
dual core at the time HT came out was 3x's more than single
Archaea:
motherboards cost 2 to 3 times more than single processor motherboards
Archaea:
There was no such thing a dual core - just dual processor
Nelson says:
You pay for what you get.
Archaea:
bah
Archaea:
just realize that if you ever applied at a job i was interviewing for and said something and blatantly wrong as HT is a joke - you'd never get a job from me....
Nelson says:
I wouldn't want to work for you.
Nelson says:
=P
Nelson says:
specially if it was @ help desk
Archaea:
one last point...tom's hardware has a video that shows a p4 3.0 with HT enabled beating a p4 3.6 with HT disabled.
Archaea:
By a LONG time
Archaea:
you have to have divx to see the video
Archaea:
but here's the link
Archaea:
http://www4.tomshardware.com/images/thg_video_5_p4_ht.zip
