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HTPC Noob Questions - Basic Setup

L

LAiN_OfTheWired

Gawd
Joined
Nov 6, 2008
Messages
825
While the sticky(s) cover quite a bit, and I mean QUITE A BIT, before I really get into them I'd like some advice on what kind of hardware I should be looking at. I'm really looking to make this a budget build to begin with, but maybe want a bit of breathing room in the upgrading department. Energy cost is definitely an issue as well. Basically, its gonna end up being a Christmas present for my dad, who is a Chrysler employee (for now at least) so I want it to be cool but not an extra burden.

My basic goal is a nice media center, so Blu-Ray and DVR for sure, I will probably set up Hulu Desktop on it, and I might also include a full MAME distro so its not just TV and movies but also some retro-gaming goodness.

It's gonna be hooked up to a 46" LCD (Vizio). We have a 900W 5.1 system thats less than a year old, and we currently have Charter as our cable provider.

So my questions:

What's a good way to do this on a budget? I'm thinking about $400 can build a decent tower these days. Is that too little or good enough for a first HTPC? What components should I be looking for?

What would you recommend as far as TV tuner cards go? Get one or not?

Is XP or Vista better for recording, and how much storage is this thing gonna require to store say... 2 full seasons of shows (my dad watches the Terminator series and my step-mom goes ape-shit over American Idol) and a couple movies at a time, plus the oddball "OMFG I've gotta watch that but I'll be gone so let's DVR it instead" show?

I really appreciate the advice, so thanks in advance!
 
Not sure I can say much on the DVR or TV tuner.... but I''ll tell you what I have.

My HTPC is nothing major, it uses an older mATX board, Abit NFM2 iirc and a AMD x2 4200+, 3gb of ram, 2x80gb in raid0, and a single 500gb drive. It has an 8800gs for video, and a sound blaster audigy 2.

If you goal is to output all the audio to a receiver to decode, then don't worry about a sound card. Many boards out have an onboard sound card which will do digital out, this is what you want if you use a receiver.

If its going to be recording 720p or 1080i/p content (broadcast is 1080i for most cable companies), then you'll want a decent amount of storage. 1TB drives are under $100.

I would go with an intel core2duo, but if it's budget, you can find a video card which will decode most of the video for you and not worry about the processor bogging up.

Figure 2gb ram, dual core processor, and a hard drive decent enough to store a good amount of data (at least 500gb, but shoot for 1tb).

A blu-ray drive is going to run you $60-100 if you find one used, the hard drive another $60-100, the board and processor you can probably dig up for $150ish together. The Abit IP-35-E is a decent choice if you don't need raid. If you want something newer, it may cost you a bit more.

Most onboard video cards are crap, but you can find a cheap older card that will work great, 8600gt is probably a good choice, and they can be found for $30-40.

Check the recommendations for blu-ray players.

I am a fan of XP, but I haven't used XP MCE. You'll get mixed reviews, mostly personal preference.

This would be my recommendation in summary:

Dual core processor
2gb ram
mobo with sound onboard with digital out
500gb or more of dedicated storage
8600gt or better (some of the really low end ati cards have HDMI out)
Wireless card
wireless kb/mouse

You can probably snag some of the HTPC's people are selling here on [H] for that price. i saw a couple under $400 in the FS section....

Good luck in your search
 
okay vista or windows 7, W7 is the best option the RC1 that is available...

as for a DVR, there isnt a real good option for digital HD recordings that are premium content.


the HDHR for clearQAM works well and OTA....

everything else is simple
 
dhahlen said:
If you goal is to output all the audio to a receiver to decode, then don't worry about a sound card. Many boards out have an onboard sound card which will do digital out, this is what you want if you use a receiver.




Most onboard video cards are crap, but you can find a cheap older card that will work great, 8600gt is probably a good choice, and they can be found for $30-40.
Click to expand...


for one, almost everyone here knows that the older ATI/AMD 780g onboard video does 1080p video fine with the 3:2 pull down and that the new Nvidia 8x00/9x00 does HD 1080p with out issues.


advising someone who is on a tight budget that they need to get a GPU is dumb and going to cost more in the future.



get an AMD 45w AM2 CPU and a Nvidia 8x00 motherboard.


ill post links in a minute:


okay this CPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103255

this motherboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500015

and it comes with a $20 MIR to help you out on the cost..


for HDD i recomend the largest you can buy with the $$.....

you need a case, PSU, CPU, Mobo, DVD drive, RAM.... it can be done for $400, but not with blu-ray and 2tb of storage.

maybe later I will put together a system for the price, but to the OP, play around with the CPU and mobo that I suggested and other components, list them here and let us advise you on them
 
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Adidas4275 said:
advising someone who is on a tight budget that they need to get a GPU is dumb and going to cost more in the future.
Click to expand...

I haven't had a ton of experience with on board video because it's generally crap and I try to keep away from it. However, I provided what I felt would be best, and I obviously don't speak on behalf of everyone.

I do agree, $400 budget is going to be hard to make due with lots of storage and a blu-ray drive.

Another board suggestion: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128342
 
but onboard video has been crap, but the newest generation of ATI and Nvidia onboard rivals the $30 GPUs....

notice, almost everyone who builds a budget HTPC and even some high end HTPC use ATI 780g or Nvidia 8200/8300/9200/9300 motherboards.

HTPC cases dont do well with heat and the more heat the more noise... therefore onboard video can actually be better for the situation than an add in card.

for a HTPC you need it to do 1080p with out studder which they both can and the 8200/8300/9200/9300 can do HD audio over HDMI with out needing to connect any internal cables.

ATM the nvidia IGPs are the best for HTPC. (this is not my oppinion but rather countless reviews and users here at [H]
 
Adidas4275 said:
but onboard video has been crap, but the newest generation of ATI and Nvidia onboard rivals the $30 GPUs....

notice, almost everyone who builds a budget HTPC and even some high end HTPC use ATI 780g or Nvidia 8200/8300/9200/9300 motherboards.

HTPC cases dont do well with heat and the more heat the more noise... therefore onboard video can actually be better for the situation than an add in card.

for a HTPC you need it to do 1080p with out studder which they both can and the 8200/8300/9200/9300 can do HD audio over HDMI with out needing to connect any internal cables.

ATM the nvidia IGPs are the best for HTPC. (this is not my oppinion but rather countless reviews and users here at [H]
Click to expand...

Looks like I may go this route when replacing my HTPC soon.... thanks for the info, it will be useful for future upgrade.
 
LAiN_OfTheWired said:
So my questions:

1) What's a good way to do this on a budget? I'm thinking about $400 can build a decent tower these days. Is that too little or good enough for a first HTPC? What components should I be looking for?

2) What would you recommend as far as TV tuner cards go? Get one or not?

3) Is XP or Vista better for recording

4) how much storage is this thing gonna require to store say... 2 full seasons of shows (my dad watches the Terminator series and my step-mom goes ape-shit over American Idol) and a couple movies at a time, plus the oddball "OMFG I've gotta watch that but I'll be gone so let's DVR it instead" show?
Click to expand...

1) $400 is just bit too low but not by much for just the core components:

$56 - AMD Athlon X2 4850E 45W CPU
$75 - Asus M3N78-VM GeForce 8200 HDMI mATX Motherboard
$24 - PNY OPTIMA 2 x 1GB DDR2 800 RAM
$58 - Western Digital WD5000AACS 500GB 5400RPM to 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$116 - Antec NSK2480 mATX case with Antec Earthwatts 380W PSU
$85 - Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1600 ATSC/ClearQAM/NTSC PCI TV Tuner Card w/Remote 1178
-----
Total: $414 plus tax and shipping.

As Adidas4275 pointed out, the oonboard video of the 8200 chipset is more than enough for HD content. I included a TV tuner as a result of question 4. Looks like your parents might record some TV shows after all. If you don't want the HTPC look and don't mind the tower look, you can drop the case down to the NSK3480 with Earthwatts EA380 380W PSU for $92 (saves about $25 that way):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129035&Tpk=NSK 3480

That should put you under $400.

2) Already recommended a TV tuner above. But if you don't think that your parents will record ANY TV show, drop the TV tuner from the setup above.

3) Vista and Windows 7 RC IMO.

4) Roughly 350MB per 45 minute episode (once you strip out the commercial breaks) IIRC. Movies can take up anywhere from 700MB to 4-9GB depending on how you encode and rip them.
 
My suggest for super budget yet good enough system:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500015
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103672
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827118013
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119195
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152099
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820161172
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815309007
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371005
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=321&products_id=22120

Okay, in one form or another my current HTPC is very close to that. :)
1.) Use Win7 RC, upgrade to Win7 when it gets released. Completely side step Vista.

2.) You can buy two of those tuners bu they don't do Over the Air (OTA) or QAM which are used for the new digital TV transmissions for over the air HD stuff. Doesn't matter if you've got a cable box (STB).
 
also use the for sale thread, you can get everything for a HTPC minus the case fairly eaisly and can save a decent amount of $$$
 
Are there any GPU-accelerated playback options or is it all just encoding still? I mean, realistically isn't the GPU much more proficient in these types of tasks? I was simply thinking that with a low-end CPU it might be a good idea.

I forgot to mention these, but they may not be noteworthy... I do have 1GB of DDR2-1000 (2x512MB sticks) and an Athlon X2 3800+ (2GhZ socket AM2) already at my disposal. Either/both worth re-using or no?

Also, any memory bandwidth advantage for HTPC-related tasks? And would a slightly more expensive Intel setup be better on the bang vs buck end or does AMD take the cake for this too? I'm really a fan of both or neither depending how you look at things.

I might go the retarded route and also use a Shin Etsu thermal compound just to keep it that extra degree cooler, but should fanless heatsinks really worry me as much as they do or am I stuck on overclocker/gamer mode? I haven't had a fanless heatsink on a CPU in... EVER. Even my Pentium 3 800MhZ, AMD K6-2, and my 486MX had fan-laden heatsinks. Or maybe I'm not giving a good look at the cooling suggested?

I mean, I have until like... Dec. 20th to put this together so its not a HUGE rush and I can wait for parts to go down a bit. Planning starts NOW though, especially since I'm gonna try to fit in a MAME distro and make it an all-purpose media center PC. Wanna give myself plenty of time to get it right.

EDIT:
Intel E1400 has a combo on newegg with an ECS board sporting Geforce 7050, could easily afford 3GB of DDR2-533 or 667 (unless of course memory speed does play a huge part) and a Geforce GPU. I REALLY like the Antec case/PSU combo Danny Bui mentioned so I'll likely go that route for those.
 
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If you already have that cpu and memory, just slap it in a decent mobo and give it a go. It should be perfectly fine if you get hardware acceleration setup correctly. Really you seem to be overthinking this; hardware acceleration really is amazing and you don't need to be worrying about memory bandwidth and everything else!

Oh and I have a fanless HSF in my HTPC.... BEST thing you can do. You may not care about fan noise too much when playing games on your desktop and might even think your setup is pretty quiet... but as soon as you start watching a movie, even those "quiet" fans start to sound like a hair dryer :) I can't hear my HTPC if my ear is more than 6" away.
 
LAiN_OfTheWired said:
I forgot to mention these, but they may not be noteworthy... I do have 1GB of DDR2-1000 (2x512MB sticks) and an Athlon X2 3800+ (2GhZ socket AM2) already at my disposal. Either/both worth re-using or no?
Click to expand...
The CPU will work but you need 2 gigs.
Also, any memory bandwidth advantage for HTPC-related tasks? And would a slightly more expensive Intel setup be better on the bang vs buck end or does AMD take the cake for this too? I'm really a fan of both or neither depending how you look at things.
Click to expand...
Yes and no.
I might go the retarded route and also use a Shin Etsu thermal compound just to keep it that extra degree cooler, but should fanless heatsinks really worry me as much as they do or am I stuck on overclocker/gamer mode? I haven't had a fanless heatsink on a CPU in... EVER. Even my Pentium 3 800MhZ, AMD K6-2, and my 486MX had fan-laden heatsinks. Or maybe I'm not giving a good look at the cooling suggested?
Click to expand...
My Fusion/NSK2400 cases are both passively cooled (CPU that is).
I mean, I have until like... Dec. 20th to put this together so its not a HUGE rush and I can wait for parts to go down a bit. Planning starts NOW though, especially since I'm gonna try to fit in a MAME distro and make it an all-purpose media center PC. Wanna give myself plenty of time to get it right.
Click to expand...
HTPC related parts don't really change all that much. There's only one thing I can think of that needs to be fixed/update on mobo IGPs to make them perfect for HTPC use. What really matters is the software, even if mobos were updated to what we'd consider "perfect" it's the software that will also limit them from reaching that.

Anyways, the point is you can buy all parts now for around $500 and those parts will last for at least two years, easy. My HTPC used a s939 X2 3800+ with two gigs of memory. I used it for about three years and just now finally replaced it for the option of blu ray playback.
EDIT:
Intel E1400 has a combo on newegg with an ECS board sporting Geforce 7050, could easily afford 3GB of DDR2-533 or 667 (unless of course memory speed does play a huge part) and a Geforce GPU.
Click to expand...
That's a TERRIBLE IDEA! Forget it, don't bother with that crap. You'll regret it once you find out how crappy the 7050 is.
 
i think he edited it.... before it I think it just stated 3800+ AM2 and didnt clarify X2 or not...

i could be wrong though, I was just making sure the OP used an X2
 
yup, as far as I know I still have an X2 3800+. I think I might just go with a new CPU anyway to be a little more on the 'green' side.

I am sorta overthinking it prolly, but I'm sorta... yeah, I do that with everything :D

What softwares would you guys recommend? I would absolutely love to go with Linux but I'm pretty sure HTPC is a Windows domain. I'm sorta at a loss when it comes to that. I have Vista Home Premium and it works GREAT for my gaming rig, but every single other computer I've ever had has been Mac or Linux. This is gonna end up a Windows 7 rig, so I'm gonna need some suggestions.
 
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