HTPC direction and ideas requested

[RanceJustice]

Evening everyone. I'm considering building a HTPC and just want to ensure I've not overlooked anything in my current plans.

Goals - I want a box that can primarily, play (and perhaps download) all sorts of HD content from local or web sources. I want wide-ranging codec support. Local includes my networked NAS, on which media resides, so I'd like to to be able to stream wirelessly when possible and when not, copy media onto its local HDD. I would also like it to be able to push content/be accessed by "set top" type streaming receivers for other TVs in the house, since I don't plan to make a media PC for each one around. I would ideally like to have everything Linux compatible. It wouldn't hurt to have some light-gaming ability, either.

Secondary Goal: I'd at least like to at least leave the possibility of this box working as a DVR-style recorder, able to losslessly record from my Comcast Cable (Boo, Hiss) Digital, Premium channels. This may not be possible, and I can understand that. I'm open to suggestions however, but I'd really like to avoid having to switch to a Windows/Mac solution to do so. (ie. I hear the easiest solution like CableCARD won't run under Linux because telcoms like proprietary everything, but if there's a good workaround I'm interested).

Hardware: On the occasion that I do decide to make this into a DVR at some point, I've decided against one of those M-ITX cases like the LianLi Q's. They'd be fine otherwise, but they wouldn't have the room for the hard drives or TV +Graphics cards necessary for such things. So, I've been considering either a Box-style mATX or the "desktop" HTPC cases with either mATX or full ATX support.

Silverstone, LianLi and a few others have nice looking offerings. Unfortunately, the price really goes through the roof for those that include LCD displays. Does anyone know how these LCDs work? For instance, do they show up as a secondary display? Are they completely self-contained and only work with "their" embedded software? Do they require drivers (likely, windows only) to work at all? Etc.. I'd consider getting one, but if they're too proprietary, then they're not much use.

As far as CPU is concerned, there is no need for top of the line 1366-sockets, so I thought I'd go for a nice Quad Core (or 6, if cheap?) AMD Phenom II offering. I'm thinking of going quad for future proofing, in case I DVR the box and it has to actually handle encoding of multiple streams, not just playback. Thinking if finding a used AM3 Phenom II X4 (BE?)and cooling it with Scythe's BigShuriken or anything else that might fit, depending on the case I find.

For a motherboard, I tend to go to Asus first. They have a nice selection of AM3 boards, and I'd prefer an 8xx chipset. I'm not sure if I should go for discrete graphics, integrated, or both. The 890GX/880G with the SB850 chipsets seem to have integrated ATI 4290s that can go into some sort of hybrid crossfire with a discrete ATI card. I could in theory go with one of these to see if they would work for my needs ( THink it would based on above, including things like hardware-based video decoding) and then decide to upgrade to a discrete card later if need be? Or should I just go for a mobo without integrated graphics and simply budget for a discrete graphics card from the start. ? The model itself would depend if the case I decide on is ATX or mATX compatible, of course.

RAM shouldn't be hard and I was thinking the typical 4gb would be enough to start.

Graphics wise, I was considering an ATI 4000 or 5000 series if I went with the discrete option. I want it to have enough oomph for occasional gaming (on emulators, perhaps even PS2/GameCube/Wii emulators, along with MAME) and hardware decoding/encoding. I would think the 4000 series would be the sweet spot, especially as I wish to stick to Linux if possible (ie. DirectX11 isn't really important. OpenGL is better). Is there anything for HTPC usage I'd be missing in the 4000 series compared to the 5000? If I recall correctly, both are capable of HDMI Audio, but its more likely to find a HDMI port on a 5000 series card.

Sound wise, I'm thinking of just going with integrated audio. I can't see spending $200+ on a sound card with a HDMI passthrough, at the moment. Most of the boards I looked at had HDMI built right in, which is good if I use integrated video. What about if I use a discrete card (4000/5000) with HDMI? I've seen something in the ATI Catalysts about HDMI audio support, so I know there is some way that works, but I've never set it up to date. Does the system just see the vid card as an audio card too and a viable output, or is there some cabling wizardry required?

For disk space, I figure to start with I'll drop in a single WD Black. The vast majority of my content is on the network and I'll likely set up stuff to download to my NAS box, so I don't need a HUGE amount of local storage. However, I still want enough that, should streaming not be fast enough, I can just copy over large media files temporarily to play from the local disk.

Wireless is going to be important, as there's no wired ethernet near where this box is going to be and relatives and ladyfolk will have my head if I just leave a length of cat6 along the floor. I've had serious performance issue with USB WiFi adapters in the past, including dreadfully low speeds just copying between LAN PCs. However, ages ago when I used a PCI card, things were even worse! Can anyone suggest the fastest possible offerings today? USB2.0? USB3.0? PCI-E? If you know ahead of time if the chipset is Linux friendly (ie. Intel 6300s etc...) that's fantastic, but if not its cool. I'll just have to check.

Anything I've missed with the Hardware?

Software: I'm vacillating between..

1. A complete Linux distribution. Pros include being able to install anything and everything I want. Cons include the time to do so and configure it all as I like I'll be able to handle any complexity one issue at at time, and for instance, if something is borked in one interface, I can still grab or access the program directly.
2. A Linux distro that is tailored to HTPC, like Mythbuntu. This gives a good place to start without cutting off the user's ability to make their own additions or substitutionss
3. A "MediaBox" OS, like XBMC or Boxee. These come with everything all set up and shiny, but may be slightly more restrictive.

What did you choose and why? Well, I've written far too much for one evening. Thanks again!

 

[Dangman]

Out of the entire post, you forgot to add one piece of critical information: What's your max budget for all of this? Are the "set top" boxes also part of that budget? How many are you planning on? Also, what PSU were you planning on?

Unfortunately you're gonna have to rethink the entire setup if you want Linux AND the ability to offload the decoding of HD content. First and foremost, XBMC is the only linux OS/app/what have you that can actually offload the decoding of HD content via VDPAU. However that capability is only accessible if using a Nvidia GPU. As such, ATI is pretty much out the window for a HD HTPC setup with Linux. You can use a ATI chipset mobo just fine but you're gonna need a Nvidia GPU.

As for your other questions (they're gonna be more Windows specific actually):
- The functionaility of those embedded LCDs depends on the case. Sometimes they show up as secondard displays. Sometimes they just show certain info like temps, music trac being played, etc, etc. Some are self contained while others only work with their embedded softwars andd drivers (Linux and Windows included).

- Try the onboard video first and then decide if a discrete GPU is needed.

- The HD 5xxx series offer full bit-streamed audio via HDMI whereas the HD 4xxx series only offed 7.1 LPCM audio HDMI. Yes both card families fully support audio via HDMI. No real cable wizardry involved. However I'm not 100% sure that capability is doable with Linux.

- The physical connection of the wireless adapter does not matter that much. It's HOW the wireless signal is being propagated/sent as well as being recieved that matters. You could have a $200 wireless adapter that would still perform like shit if the wireless router can't send out a strong enough signal through all of the walls/bricks/photos/tables/obstructions in the home.

So for the best possible wireless connection, you may have to upgrade your router to a Wireless N router and use a wireless N adapter. If that doesn't work well due to a lot of things being in the wall, then you may have to use a wireless repeater.

As said above, you missed the PSU and the total budget for this HTPC.

 

[engiNURD]

holy walls of text.

/subbed for future reading if i find the time.

 

[RanceJustice]

Danny, thanks for your input and good questions

Budget = I'd like to keep it under $1000, just for the PC itself. . Ideally, well below that. However, I'm willing to pay a little more for quality and I realize that buying the kind of case that includes one of those 7" LCD touchscreens, is going to be 2/3 of that by itself. I'm probably going to avoid those types for that reason, as I came up with a new idea to be detailed below. The set-top repeaters will come later once I'm sure the main-box is doing what it is supposed to go.

PSU = Ideally, I'll just be buying a nice stable Corsair model, likely a HX unless someone has a dirt cheap AX (unlikely, as 750w is WAY more than I need). Or something comparable - low-mid wattage, stable and high quality, modular.

Offloading content -Thanks, I wasn't aware that was the part of the project. I know that ATI has been making some major strides in both open source and proprietary drivers enabling many things, but it may not be "there" yet for VDPAU on the embedded-type OSes. That is one reason I want to ensure I have a powerful enough CPU to handle HD decoding properly. I'd really like to avoid Nvidia, but I will keep that in mind. I'll check into the latest support from the ati/radeonhd driver guys, and the Catalyst pack itself to see if there have been any recent developments before I make a final decision.

Mini-LCD - After seeing the prices of the cases with LCDs embedded range easily above $500-600 , I've thought about forgetting about those, and instead buying one of the little USB LCD displays that works pretty much on everything, instead. Many of them cost only in the $100-200 range, even less if you buy a bare display and mod it into the case. Since they're USB video, which works under any OS, its easy to define them as another display, so I won't be limited to displaying only certain info upon them.

Onboard - Sounds to be a plan. The 4290 isn't actually a horrible for integrated, and I hear plays well feature-set wise.

HDMI - Thanks for the difference. Since most of my media is going to be encoded, not direct from a BluRay it may not make a huge difference between 4000 and 5000 series, but if I do buy a discrete card it will likely be a 5000. If I recall correctly, with Catalyst drivers, not currently the open source ones, the HDMI audio features are available. Will have to look into that.

Wireless - my experience with Wireless adapters typically falls into either a signal strength issue, which you speak about, but more difficult are those where the transfer rate is horrid even when the signal strength is full or nearly so. If I was having signal problems I would be able to use a repeater or whatnot, but I want to make sure the quality of the chipset itself and whatnot are all top of the line. My router is a custom-built Untangle box, using a DIR-655 router (with routing stuff turned off, just as an access point) for Wireless N. I'll check to see if there is a newer firmware for it, but it really has minimal "responsibility", and every wireless device (N900, Laptops etc..) that connect to it seem to be fine, except for the USB receivers.

 

[Dangman]

Hmm, unfortunately that means switching from AMD to Core i5 as IIRC, the Core i5 is just about right for playing back HD content whereas AMD CPUs will do it but with a bit of stutter here and there.

In fact, lets get some confirmation: if you have any 1080P HD content on your PC right now, play it right now using VLC or some other software decoding media player and note the CPU playback. Note the CPU usage and report back.

Those USB adapters you've used. Where they wireless N compatible?

And are you sure it's just not Untangle and the way it handles wireless access?

 

[RanceJustice]

Maybe others have varied experiences, but I perused Linux-disto forums and I'm told that with the Catalyst drivers, there is hardware video acceleration including h264, and that even CPU only that a Phenom II X4 won't have any problems playing HD video. I'll have to find an 1080P encode - at the moment I have mostly 720p HD rips - to give it a shot, but I'll test it on VLC on both my main rig (i7 920 @ 3.8) and on another PC that has a Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition. I'll see what I can do!

The USB adapter I've used have both been older wireless G, and current Wireless N models. In regards to untangle, it isn't really handling the wireless aspect at all. As far as Untangle is concerned, it is just leasing IPs to something connected through a switch - the DIR-655 is handling the wireless. I'd be less concerned if I had problems with ALL my devices, but my PS3, my Nokia N900, and other wireless-enabled devices work just fine. It just seems to be the USB adapters that are problematic, at times.

Oh, I also found some quality-looking but still affordable cases - Antec's Fusion Remote series. I'm considering both the Fusion Remote Black and Fusion Remote Max (bigger, ATX compliant). Anyone heard aabout these?

 

[Dangman]

Heard good things about the Fusion. However IIRC they have pretty limited space for a video card.

Yeah, report back when you get results of playback.
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