HP ProLiant MicroServer owners' thread

Discussion in 'SSDs & Data Storage' started by ahmhardforumahm, Oct 22, 2010.

  1. AbRASiON

    AbRASiON Limp Gawd

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    Has anyone used a port multiplier in the Microserver?
    I'd love to keep the current quantity of storage I've got but add a cheap SSD as the C: somehow. Is this even possible? I'd plan to 'replicate' the onboard SATA port or the ESATA port, not the regular hotplug ports.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124049
    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Syba-2-P...34993944?pt=AU_Components&hash=item484d53f818

    I'm reading the newegg comments here and they keep mentioning RAID, is this a requirement of multiplied ports? I can't just have them as multiple disks hanging off a SATA port?
    Has anyone done this with the microserver? I'm sure I could fit in an SSD, just.

    Poor little PSU would be a bit angry though, USB3 card (requires FDD power) , extra video card, 8gb of ram, 6 3.5" HDD's, a port multiplier (requires FDD power) and finally an SSD

    Still,.......... - anyone got experience / comments with port multipliers on the N54L?
     
  2. bluefull

    bluefull n00b

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    I just want to add that I own a N36L Microserver which came with a 200W PSU. After about 6 months, the fan in the PSU started making unbearably loud grinding noises. Damn thing sounds downright angry. HP did a replacement. Now less than a year after, the PSU fan is behaving the same way on the replacement.

    I see several other threads online regarding this issue and someone posted here that they found a suitable replacement with a Papst fan.

    Personally, I am looking at outright replacing the PSU. The out of warranty replacement cost on the PSU from HP is ridiculous, might as well buy a new server instead. Besides, I got a replacement and the same issue eventually developed.

    Has anyone tried the PicoPSU with these Microservers? I'm just running a basic file/media server, 5x2TB green drives and an ssd ubuntu server boot drive. No raid, no video card or anything else.
     
  3. pwrusr

    pwrusr 2[H]4U

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  4. bluefull

    bluefull n00b

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  5. bluefull

    bluefull n00b

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    Thanks, I pulled out the PSU and while the width and height seem to be about right, the Seasonics are too long. The Microserver PSU is about 6" in length. The Seasonic is 7.5" which would fit the compartment but then the PSU cable wouldn't fit.

    I may have to look at replacing the PSU fan first and then maybe look at something like the PicoPSU.

    An out of warranty replacement from HP costs $172 for the PSU but really it's only the fan that's the problem. Poor quality.
     
  6. bluefull

    bluefull n00b

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    Assuming there is suitable fan replacement with a 3-pin connector, I'm guessing you could use a 2 pin to 3 pin (Type D is it?) adapter cable. Then attach the fan and Zalman Fan Mate.

    Is there a certain minimum power rating required for the fan for it to start?

    In terms of specs I know it's best to look for one that has good static pressure seeing as this is a PSU fan.
     
  7. baldmosher

    baldmosher n00b

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    Check with a power meter, picoPSU will normally handle most everyday PC tasks, bear in mind that your biggest power drain might be during boot or when at full tilt in a test situation.

    I'd be surprised if 90W picoPSU couldn't accommodate your setup but do bear in mind the cost ramps up for higher power bricks. So a smaller flexATX size standard PSU might be best (not certain the PSU is standard flexATX dimensions though)

    If I didn't have the N40L in a cupboard I'd have replaced the PSU and chassis fan a long time ago.
     
  8. pwrusr

    pwrusr 2[H]4U

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    Depending on the size of the fan itself (is it 10 or 20mm deep?) you can pick up a good replacement fan here:
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...Price=&MaxPrice=&PropertyCodeValue=3727:26520
    I think that's likely going to be the most cost effective solution.

    FWIW I'm using one of these fans in a cisco switch:
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835705031
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2012
  9. bluefull

    bluefull n00b

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    Yeah, I think the fan replacement is the most cost effective way to go as you said. As user MillhouseVH stated much earlier in this thread, the HP original PSU fan is a T&T 4020HH12S-ND1 (40x40x20mm 12V DC sleeve bearing, 7000RPM, 8.36CFM, 31.9dBA).

    Here's is the Fan Performance Curve and data on the TopMotor from Newegg you linked (though they have the wrong dimension listed in the data table):

    [​IMG]

    The neophyte that I am, during my search for a fan replacement, I've come to understand that higher static pressure is important especially for a small PSU fan like this one faced with the PSU case obstruction. Static pressure is the ability of a fan to push air through obstructions, the greater the number, the stronger the fan.

    The higher the static pressure and CFM, the louder it gets also so I'm looking for a fine balance. Another question I have is how the input current affects the fan. Lower the input current, the easier for the fan to start up?
     
  10. pwrusr

    pwrusr 2[H]4U

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    Typically 20mm fans will cope with higher static pressure better then 10mm think ones as the 20mm thick fans have quite a bit more fan surface area. I found the Rexus/topmotor fan to put out quite a bit of air running full steam. While it is somewhat loud in my application, I think that the fan will be controlled by the PSU if you use the same leads from the power supply that the current fan is using. Meaning you will likely not have to worry about hooking the fan to a external fan controller.

    I'm not quite sure about the input current question. My guess is that a lower input current will translate to easier start up for the fan. but each fan is different so without testing them side by side with other fans I wouldn't know for sure.
     
  11. bluefull

    bluefull n00b

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    The loudness is what concerns me as my HP Microserver is acting as a media and file server and it's on all the time. I think you're right about the fan being controlled by the power supply so it should be fine or comparable to the current fan without the need of a fan controller. Thought the current fan could be a little quieter:) I found MilhouseVH's posts and discussion with matthewwhite on another forum regarding this.

    So I will go with a 2-pin to 3-pin adapter though I just want to know which type it is as there are four. My assumption is Type D which seems to have the smallest 2-pin:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. pwrusr

    pwrusr 2[H]4U

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    Could be any one of those connectors. Though I think that it would be B, C or D as A is just too big. It may also be soldered to the PCB as well. You won't know for sure until you pop it open.
     
  13. bluefull

    bluefull n00b

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    Good news is that it's not soldered on. Bad news is that there's a disk shaped capacitor right up against it and some kind of coating that has 'joined' them together. Will have to pry it out carefully.
     
  14. mikey71497

    mikey71497 Limp Gawd

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    Hello, I am thinking about purchasing one of these as my current NetGear ReadyNas Duo is about to be maxed out. I currently have two 1TB drives in Raid 1 and I am more than half way through. If I was to purchase this device and put only two 2TB drives in it, when I wanted to add more drives, do I simply add them in and reboot or do I have to do anything in the BIOS or Windows? I do plan on running WHS 2011 on this. Will the new drives automatically begin to join the RAID or do I have to initiate that within the OS or BIOS? Any help would be appreciated.
     
  15. bluefull

    bluefull n00b

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    The hard drives will be recognized but you may know this already but you would have to rebuild the Raid 1 from what I gather and migrate the data back. See this thread I quickly googled.
     
  16. bluefull

    bluefull n00b

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    I decided to complicate my fan replacement and will wind up doing some soldering and adding a fan control. I figure I can get a better fan which draws less current but pushes more air and is rated for the same or greater static pressure and in the end hope to be quieter than the original. I settled on a Sanyo Denki Made In Japan 3-wire with bare leads to run with a fan controller. The fan only cost $6 and the Zalman Fan Mate is only $7 so total cost is not that much more.

    For others who may need to replace theirs in time:

    Original:
    T&T 4020HH12S-ND1
    RPM - 7000
    CFM - 8.36
    mmH20 - 4.06 (inH20 - 0.16)
    dBa - 31.9
    Amp - 0.24 (2.88W)

    Possible replacements:

    Top Motor DF124020BH (Double ball bearing)
    RPM - 8000
    CFM - 8.6
    mmH20 - 8.2
    dBa - 30


    EBM-Papst 412H (sintec bearing)
    RPM - 8100
    CFM - 7.9
    mmH20 - ~6.0 (inH20 - 0.23
    dBa - 29
    amp - 0.13 (1.6W)


    Panasonic FBK04F12H (ball bearing)
    RPM - 7500
    CFM - 6.7
    mmH20 - 6.60 (64.7 pa)
    dBa - 32
    Amp - 0.15 (1.8W)

    (The NMB B40s can be bought with bare leads only it seems so you'd have to solder).

    NMB-MAT 1606KL-04W-B40
    RPM - 7000
    CFM - 7.0
    mmH20 - 4.80 (inH20 - 0.188)
    dBa - 31
    Amp - 0.075 (0.9W)

    NMB-MAT 1608KL-04W-B40-
    RPM - 7500
    CFM - 8.4
    mmH20 - 5.52 (inH20 - 0.21)
    dBa - 29
    Amp - 0.09 (1.08W)

    NMB-MAT 1608VL-04W-B40-
    RPM - 7500
    CFM - 8.8
    mmH20 - 5.99 (inH20 - 0.24)
    dBa - 29
    Amp - 0.08 (1.02W)

    (The above would be straight replacements. The NMB B50 versions of the above are more powerful and louder but with a fan controller they would work. These NMBs are fairly low power which is nice and would have bought from mouser but the Sanyo Denki + Fan Mate came out cheaper for me in the end).


    Sanyo Denki 109P0412H6D01 (3-wire)
    RPM - 8000
    CFM - 7.95
    mmH20 - 6.7 (65.7 pa)
    dBa - 33
    Amp - 0.11A (1.32W)
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
  17. V@nill@

    V@nill@ Limp Gawd

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    Hi all, I lost the key to my N36L. Has anyone found an easy way to get the lock open?
     
  18. Patriot

    Patriot [H]ard|DCer of the Month - March 2011/June 2013/De

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    ask someone in here to lend you theirs... doesn't it come with two?
     
  19. V@nill@

    V@nill@ Limp Gawd

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    Thanks, I managed to get in, in the end!

    Quick onboard RAID question.

    I have 4 x 2TB drives. I would like to make one big RAID 1 group.

    Will it allow me to make a single 4TB LUN or would I need to make 2 x 2TB LUNs? I try to assign all four drives to a RAID 1 group but it says max 2. Wondering if i'm doing something wrong or if I just need to make 2 separate LUNs!

    Thanks
     
  20. hvrt

    hvrt n00b

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    Well I can now safely say I have the perfect set up with my N36L for the last 12 months or so.

    It's running Ubuntu 10.04 Server LTS with a x4 2TB drivers. The 250GB drive is used as the boot drive. Things I've got working are

    - Software RAID5 array with XFS filesystem to create a 5.5TB filesystem.
    - Streaming to my XBMC box sat behind the telly. So now have lots of media a keypress away.
    - Webmin for remote admin with all the email alerts set up.
    - Squeezebox server for streaming my music around the house. Google "joggler" if you're interested in repurposing a device to be used as a Squeezebox player.
    - Deluge for torrenting
    - Putty and x-server sorted for remote access as needed.

    Still playing with owncloud. But this little box is as stable as it comes and doesn't break a sweat. All this runs with no more than half the 1GB memory in use. Must resist tinkering though :)
     
  21. bbito

    bbito n00b

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    After I spent days figuring out how to hack the Bios to provide RAID10 on my N36L I came across some folks disparaging this fakeraid provided by the SATA controller (I thought it was a hardware RAID - oh well). This box would be used for large video file backup/storage and layoff to LTO so it needs at least a reliable 160MB/s read speed. I don't need snapshots or versioning, and I prefer RAID10 so I still have read access with a single drive failure. This box isn't a typical file server, its more like a staging system for tape backup and we don't expect it to stream media, just safely store 3.5TB of 3GB to 900GB files. Assuming a 4-drive RAID10 for a CentOS or Scientific Linux build, would you recommend building it in the BIOS or in Linux, or does it really need a hardware RAID card - what are the advantages/disadvantages?
     
  22. Patriot

    Patriot [H]ard|DCer of the Month - March 2011/June 2013/De

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    I would recommend in the bios over OS software raid...
    Bios = firmware on top of the chipset...with driver to connect to OS...
    Not a true hardware solution but faster than OS software raid. Z-raid may be the exception.

    Hardware raid will gain you speed and features... more raid options, quicker rebuilds, more HDD options SAS, SATA...smarter diagnosis... Cache (speed for small and large transfers) ...
     
  23. AbRASiON

    AbRASiON Limp Gawd

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    Any of the experienced Microserver builders want to comment on this hardware?

    https://www.pccasegear.com/index.php...ion=wish_lists
    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ws/eBayIS...E:L:OU:AU:3160

    I already have all the power cables (molex splitters, molex to SATA molex to 3.5", ESATA to SATA etc)
    I think I read that the silverstone SDP09 3.5" to 2.5" drive adapter cages will work fine with an SSD inside a regular Microserver hotplug bay?

    With the port replicator I'm hoping to split either the SATA or ESATA port so I can run my 2x3.5" Platter disks and an SSD in the thing for booting, total disks 7
    EDIT: I know I may need to flash the tweaked bios for multiple ports to work
     
  24. levak

    levak Limp Gawd

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    I would diffidently go with Software RAID.

    Same speed as HW raid(it's RAID10, so why would a HW raid be faster, specially onboard fakeraid?).
    Easier to debug if something goes wrong.
    If server(controller) dies, you just move the disks to another computer and it's working again.
    Drivers are usually more stable for the chipset than they are for a fakeraid.

    Read some articles: hardware raid vs. mdraid (or linux software raid)

    Matej
     
  25. Harmed

    Harmed n00b

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    Is the CPU on the N40L strong enough to saturate the GBit connection using NAS4Free? Assuming the HDDs in it are setup properly :)
     
  26. levak

    levak Limp Gawd

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    Not sure about samba, but it easily saturates over FTP, NFS or iSCSI...
     
  27. leagle

    leagle Limp Gawd

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    The processor in the N40L is actually pretty decent. Running OpenMediaVault (Debian based NAS) with 4 2TB drives in Raid 5, I have no problem saturating a gigabit connection.
     
  28. AbRASiON

    AbRASiON Limp Gawd

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    Ok no one answered this but that's ok - most Microserver owners would never do that stuff so it's understandable - I've ordered the parts anyhow and I'll update the thread if they work.

    However, I wouldn't mind knowing if at least the onboard or the esata port will work with a port multiplier WITHOUT requiring a BIOS flash? Does anyone know if either port is up to it without a flash? Since this will be done on an N54L, I'm not sure I can just safely flash yet considering BIOS versions and so on. (No mods / hacks yet)


    EDIT: did some reading, N54L owners WILL need to flash - both onboard and ESATA ports are infact IDE mode - SATA port multipliers will not work without a flash.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
  29. battleangel

    battleangel n00b

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    Has anyone tested DDR3L RAM at 1.35V? Is there any voltage control in the bios? If not, the best bet for saving power would be to use just one RAM stick, am I right?

    Perhaps DDR3L is pointless anyway since I can't seem to find single 8 GB sticks that are unbuffered ECC. Even if the board could run on 1.35V I'd still have a hard decision to make.
     
  30. [OC]Pik4chu

    [OC]Pik4chu [H]Lite

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    using less ram would require less power but IMO this thing is so slim I dont think the RAM is really where the most power draw is from.

    *edit*
    n/m my question, discovered my issue was the network.. redid it as software raid and am getting a solid 400+ mb/s r/w in crystal disk now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  31. hvrt

    hvrt n00b

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    I get around 80MB/sec file copy speed on my RAID5 array. 4 x2TB drives with xfs as the file system running Ubuntu 10.04 x64. This is runnning on an N36L with 1GB ram.
     
  32. 65Kfosta

    65Kfosta [H]Lite

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    I just picked up one of these and had a question.

    Im thinking about doing 4 2tb drives in the main slots in a software raid 5 for storage

    and putting the 250gb drive in the cd bay as the boot drive.

    If I clone the 250gb drive to another spare drive and keep it stored away would that be sufficient for

    the boot drive if it fails or should I lose one of the 2tb slots and build a raid 1 for the os?

    Thanks
     
  33. _Gea

    _Gea 2[H]4U

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    If you use ZFS, you may boot from ZFS mirrorred USB sticks and can use all slots for datadisks with Raid-Z
    example: http://napp-it.org/manuals/to-go_en.html

    [​IMG])
     
  34. cantalup

    cantalup Gawd

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    regardless of software raid (zfs, mdadm, and others) .
    I am trying to be open/objective for not pointing to a certain software raid :).

    you can do that, make sure you backup/clone after finishing you system and raid configuration, Make sure everything works as you expected.

    the easy way is using software raid1 (mirroring, any software raid can do this easily)
    pick 2X2.5 HD and put them in cd bay.

    I prefer to pick raid1 alternative. easy and painless.

    pick one that suited for your objective.
     
  35. cantalup

    cantalup Gawd

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    OS in USB key/stick , I said "doable but not desirable". you will kill USB stick when writing many times....
     
  36. _Gea

    _Gea 2[H]4U

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    This was also my mind in the past.
    An enterprise OS like Solaris and USB: a nogo
    Too slow and reliability is not good enough.

    But i changed my mind.
    Todays USB sticks are fast and quite reliable, not the same like in the past.
    AND: The advantages of using USB boot sticks are enormous.

    I am more and more convinced:
    YES, USE USB STICKS for your NAS or SAN!!

    What has happened?
    - Modern sticks are not good enough, they are good
    - Lightweight Operating Systems like OmniOS with low writes
    - Most writes are atime writes, you can set to off
    - ZFS: It detects all errors
    - ZFS mirrors: it repairs all errors

    ZFS NAS/SAN server running from USB - even in enterprise use?
    That is the future.
     
  37. cantalup

    cantalup Gawd

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    NO.... for regular USB stick! hehehe

    I would say good luck using regular USB stick for OS :)
    you can use USB stick that utilized SLC nand memory, but this is pricey

    low writes do not mean can sustain lifetime of usb stick.

    all usb key/stick are not created equally.

    future? heheheh, I imagine USB 5.0 ...
     
  38. _Gea

    _Gea 2[H]4U

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    I expect a better uptime from a USB-ZFS mirror than from a single disk.
    On problems its no more than a replace the faulted stick - online.

    Beside that its the same discussion like with MLC SSD vs SLC SSD.
    Four of my ESXi storages have MLC SSD pools, two of them are in use now
    for more than two years (first Sandforce generation) and I replace them now.

    Same with my pool machines (about 50 Windows machines), alle with the same SSD.
    Failure rate was about 7% per year. Most of them died completely, mostly from the
    first serie (more a firmware problem than MLC problem).

    So no need for USB5
    USB2 is ok, USB3 will be nice due to better performance, but SLC is not needed-
    not on SSD disks and not on USB sticks
     
  39. cantalup

    cantalup Gawd

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    This is up to you.
    You mentioned replacing USB stick is not a problem.
    I assume you already know the limitatation of regular USB key.

    Everything is do able. The rest is feasible or not.

    ssd drive or HD drive is still the best solution for os as I know from my working knowledge.
     
  40. _Gea

    _Gea 2[H]4U

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    I uploaded a first trial version of my newest 'napp-it to go' ZFS Server + OmniOS newest bloody for HP Microserver.
    (inkl. LZ4 Compression- the new ZFS Highlight):

    - download USB cloner, readme and USB Image (16 GB, can take some time)
    - Clone image to a fast 16 GB USB Stick

    - Boot it und use it (ready to use with Web-UI)
    Download see: napp-it.org