HP L2335 23" 16ms... sweet

For those who had to get a replacement monitor from HP what # did you call? I've tried 5 different numbers and none of them can find my order from hp.com. I have many black lines running from left to right and trying to get a replacement. My inquiry was sent to "mission control" who will call me back in 48 hours...

Just wondering if anyone had a special number to call and figure this out.

edit:
HP got back to me today and is sending out a brand new monitor I should expect it within a couple of days. For those who also get a bad unit you need to have HP contact "mission control" and they will get it straigtened out for you.
 
Rim said:
Also, I've read posts by technical-type folks, who all say "the new Benq 23" monitor, new HP 23" monitor, new Apple 23" monitor, are using same panel".
Manufacturer: LG-Phillips.
Panel #: LM230W02.
They said it's the only 16ms 23" panel presently on the market so anyone manufacturing a 23" 16ms monitor must be buying the "16ms panel" from LG-Phillips.
Anyway, here's the link to the panel, somewhere in the LG-Phillips website
http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com/en/product/monitor.html
Click to expand...

Yeah I've read those posts too, but they aren't accurate, at least not for Apple's displays. Apple's tech PDFs for the displays says the following:

20inch
Brightness 250 cd/m sq
Contrast ratio 400:1

23inch
Brightness 270 cd/m sq
Contrast ratio 400:1

30inch
Brightness 270 cd/m sq
Contrast ratio 400:1

Those are all different from the HP23/Philips23/BenQ23 ones which I think are all 250/500.

Just another $0.2 to add to the mix..... :D
 
hk_shacker said:
Yeah I've read those posts too, but they aren't accurate, at least not for Apple's displays. Apple's tech PDFs for the displays says the following:

20inch
Brightness 250 cd/m sq
Contrast ratio 400:1

23inch
Brightness 270 cd/m sq
Contrast ratio 400:1

30inch
Brightness 270 cd/m sq
Contrast ratio 400:1

Those are all different from the HP23/Philips23/BenQ23 ones which I think are all 250/500.

Just another $0.2 to add to the mix..... :D
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've seen another discrepancy in facts regarding this. In the exteremtech.com review of the BenQ, they state that the BenQ 23" panel is manufactured independantly and is not the same as the HP and Apple.
 
:D Until someone proves there is "another" panel Mfr who has a 16ms 23" panel out on the market NOW-----
then it looks like those guys are right, who say.....

"LG-Philips makes the 16ms 23" panel used in the 23" HP, 23" Apple, 23" Benq (panel# LM230W02)" :D
 
utsava said:
Yeah, I've seen another discrepancy in facts regarding this. In the exteremtech.com review of the BenQ, they state that the BenQ 23" panel is manufactured independantly and is not the same as the HP and Apple.
Click to expand...

One of the Ars Technica regulars is involved in the diplay line at BenQ and confirmed it is the same LG Philips panel. It is not the same DSP however, and those that have seen both feel the BenQ has the edge in scaling. While the BenQ has just been introduced in the US market, and carries a higher price, it has been on the market in Europe and Canada for some time now is there it is less expensive than the HP.

oc
 
hornkiku23 said:
cant let this baby die....lets see some more pics
Click to expand...

Unfortunately still overcast today. I am waiting for better ambient light in my room before taking pictures. All I have taken so far are too dark with too shallow a DOF to be usuable as comparison against the pics posted of the apple 23".
 
hk_shacker said:
Yeah I've read those posts too, but they aren't accurate, at least not for Apple's displays. Apple's tech PDFs for the displays says the following:

20inch
Brightness 250 cd/m sq
Contrast ratio 400:1

23inch
Brightness 270 cd/m sq
Contrast ratio 400:1

30inch
Brightness 270 cd/m sq
Contrast ratio 400:1

Those are all different from the HP23/Philips23/BenQ23 ones which I think are all 250/500.

Just another $0.2 to add to the mix..... :D
Click to expand...

As per the many posts that have gone over this already... even HP got the numbers all mixed up at first. As well, there is more to a display than just the panel, as has been pointed out. HP, BenQ and Apple all have differing circuitry, which can account for quite a lot in differentiation. Until someone provides proof to the contrary, I'll consider the Apple 23" as being the same LG panel.
 
Rim said:
Hybrid, everyone using these huge LCD monitors seems to be saying "wow, I'm running it at 1900x1200, looks great!!!!!"
But someone in a forum said they'r probably using their 15 pin Analog VGA cable (which don't carry DVI signals, it only carries inferior analog signals).

And someone at Evga.com (they box and sell 6800GT) says 6800GT won't run in 19x12 DVI, only in Analog. The guy's name is Tony Nguyen
[email protected]
He says if you want 1920x1200 "DVI" on the 6800 model, then wait for 6800 Ultra.

But some guys in Ars forum claim they get 19x12 DVI with many cards, like 8600, 8700, etc. ATI cards.
And a couple guys say that 6800-Ultra is mostly aimed at giving "more bandwidth" so it can drive the new Apple 30" LCD ($3300).
(Have you noticed that Apple says you "must use the 6800U" with that big 30" panel?)

Kinda wierd, can of worms if you ask me.
What do you other guys think about this?
How about some opinions?

What resolution are you guys running your HP 23" panels at?
Are you using the DVI cable that has the White connectors with 24-pins on both ends of it?
Or the cable that has Blue (15-pin) connectors?
Only the cable with White connectors (24 pins on BOTH ends of cable) carrys that sweet luvin' DVI signal.
Click to expand...


The official DVI specification only supports 1600x1200 on a single link. You need two links to get above that.

If you specifically look at the Sony and LG 23" displays they say that the monitors only support 1920x1200 over the analog vga connections. HP just doesn't specifically say this. I'm quite surprised that they don't. Since Apple techincally wasn't calling their connection DVI, but instead ADC, they ran their original 23" monitor at 1920x1200 anyway.

This said, any Geforce 3 and up with a DVI connection (single link), should do 1920x1200 with the latest unreleased driver. But it is not officially supported because you are driving the single link DVI connection faster than it was designed for.

Clark
 
clark_carty said:
The official DVI specification only supports 1600x1200 on a single link. You need two links to get above that.

If you specifically look at the Sony and LG 23" displays they say that the monitors only support 1920x1200 over the analog vga connections. HP just doesn't specifically say this. I'm quite surprised that they don't. Since Apple techincally wasn't calling their connection DVI, but instead ADC, they ran their original 23" monitor at 1920x1200 anyway.

This said, any Geforce 3 and up with a DVI connection (single link), should do 1920x1200 with the latest unreleased driver. But it is not officially supported because you are driving the single link DVI connection faster than it was designed for.

Clark
Click to expand...

As per HP documentation:

"Preset mode 23, 1920 x 1200, is a new video resolution mode developed for digital monitors that support input using reduced blanking techniques. Before selecting this new video mode on the L2335 monitor and to avoid possible picture loss, refer to the documentation that comes with the video graphics system to confirm if the system supports this 1920 x 1200 reduced blanking mode."

The HP uses the CVT 2.30MA and CVT 2.30MA-R standards to display 1920x1200 over VGA and DVI respectively. See refs for explanation...

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/?http://216....news/news_story.php?id=42042+CVT+2.30MA&hl=en
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/vectors/en/2003_cvt?c=us&l=en&s=corp

From what I understand, you are not driving the link faster when using 1920x1200. Instead, you are using reduced blanking to decrease the MHz to a speed at which the DVI cable can operate. DVI operates at up to 165MHz, and 1600x1200 requires 162MHz. It is with reduced blanking that they can get the 1920x1200 picture onto a DVI cable @ under 165MHz. Both ends, monitor and video card must support reduced blanking. This is where people are having trouble with certain graphics cards.

Hope this ends this debate... :rolleyes: :p :D
 
Happy Hopping said:
what on earth is "reduced blanking techniques."?
Click to expand...

Read the Dell link. :p

Bah... CRT requires about a quarter more blanking time than LCD, so with reduced blanking you get rid of that 25% overhead on the DVI line. So, if 1600x1200 = 162Mhz on DVI, 1920x1200 would be about 195MHz (exceeding the 165MHz DVI limit). So what to do? Come up with the CVT standard which allows for reduced blanking for digital displays, drop about 1/4 of 195MHz to get about 145MHz.

Someone correct my ass if I'm getting this all wrong. (famous last words)

Edit: I think I done got my math all fubar'd, but what the hell, its not like anyone else is trying to make any sense of this without buying the VESA standards docs. I think I just made the mistake of equating blanking directly to the whole MHz thing. Please someone, do chime in if you have a better understanding.
 
pics, sun finally came out

l2335-05.jpg

l2335-06.jpg

l2335-07.jpg
 
POLL .... POLL .... POLL
How about L2335 owners posting what card you have-----IF it runs your L2335 at 1920x1200 rez, using "DVI/DVI" cable?
(That's the cable with the big WHITE 24-pin connectors on BOTH ends).

I'll begin by saying my GeForce FX 5700-Ultra video card WONT do it.
Even with latest drivers it runs my L2335 at 1600x1200 max.
In the card menu, I can "set" the rez to 1920x1200-----but the L2335 screen then goes dead, then 15 sec.later the card auto-sets my rez back to 1600x1200 and screen re-apppears.

OK, so what card are you using (IF it runs your L2335 at 1920x1200 in DVI)?
Remember now, no cheating-----use only your DVI/DVI cable.
Cuz we all know the L2335 will run 1920x1200 using crummy analog cable (the one with BLUE 15-pin connectors each end).

So, what's your card?
 
Canislupy, absolutely awesome pics.
Thanks.
So, how about leading off the "POLL" ---- by telling what is your max rez in /DVI, and what card are you using?
 
I'm using the white DVI-DVI cable to connect my Chaintech Geforce4 Ti 4200. 1920x1200 works fine using driver v43.51 but my card has a SIL164 TMDS. The ExtremeTech DVI tests showed the 5200s using the internal TMDS were failing the DVI test at 135mhz which is the bare minimum for 1600x1200 with minimum blanking interval (according to ExtremeTech). So it's likely your 5700 is using the crappy internal TMDS.

Blanking interval and how to calculate bandwidth.
Dell PDF on DVI
 
Thanks Rim. The BG on my desktop is a pic I took at Glacier NP. Used the same camera to take a pic of my monitor, downsized to save bandwidth of course (EOS-1Ds jpg's are about 4mb). :D

As for the poll:

Asus Radeon 9800XT
Resolution(s):
1920x1200 (CVT 2.30MA-R) = Pass
1920x1080 (CVT 2.07M9) = Pass
1680x1050 (CVT 1.76MA) = Fail
1600x1200 (VESA) = Pass
1600x1000 (CVT 1.60MA-R) = Fail

Tried a bunch of lower resolutions as well, but don't remember all of them. Remember, all of the above resolutions are supported by the L2335. The failures were due to lack of support from my 9800XT.
 
Rim said:
POLL .... POLL .... POLL
How about L2335 owners posting what card you have-----IF it runs your L2335 at 1920x1200 rez, using "DVI/DVI" cable?
(That's the cable with the big WHITE 24-pin connectors on BOTH ends).

So, what's your card?
Click to expand...

I'm using two nVidia GeForce4 Ti 4600 in two PowerMac MDDs. One is connected via DVI-DVI and the other is connected via VGA on the monitor and DVI on the computer. Both run at 1920x1200 with no problems at all.

Slightly off topic note:
When I was using my Dell 2001FP with these two computers, the Dell had problems going to sleep (aka low power mode) with the DVI-DVI connection. The HP L2335 has no such issues. :D
 
Canislupy: Awesome pics. Thanks! This is exactly what I was looking for. I'm now completely sold on this monitor.... now to find a matching PC to go with it. :)

PS: I have the same Uniden phone! Lemmie guess... Vonage?

canislupy said:
pics, sun finally came out

l2335-05.jpg

l2335-06.jpg

l2335-07.jpg
Click to expand...
 
I caved in and ordered one of these. I'm going to need a bigger desk unless I retire both of my sammy 191Ts.
 
utsava said:
Canislupy: Awesome pics. Thanks! This is exactly what I was looking for. I'm now completely sold on this monitor.... now to find a matching PC to go with it. :)

PS: I have the same Uniden phone! Lemmie guess... Vonage?
Click to expand...

Thanks utsava. Took me a while to finally get those pics done, but I think waiting for good ambient lighting paid off (my other pics in darker light all ended up only showing the screen with everything else black).

Uniden yes, but no Vonage (maybe I should look eh?). TRU8885-2, great phone. My old Panasonic was crap in comparison.
 
Interesting...

Found this on the Chaintech website under all the new PCI Express, 5300/5750/5900 cards:

Support for single-link DVI for compatibility with next-
generation flat panel displays with resolutions greater than
1600x1200 without the need for reduced blanking

And it says this under all the 6800 cards:

Support for single-link DVI for compatibility with next generation flat panel displays with resolutions greater than 1600x1200 without the need for reduced blanking
Maximum single-link bandwidth: 165MHz

Looks like my next video card will be Chaintech
 
canislupy - thanks for taking the time to post the pics and comments on your vidcard. Looks great on your desk.

oc
 
I have a Chaintech MX440, 64 MB. I am not too impressed w/ it. Currently, at 1600 x 1200, every once in a while, about twice a day, I lost all video display, and get "No input signal" from my monitor.

But at lower res., like 1280 x 1024, no problem.

I have to reboot and get back the screen. It could be the monitor, but it can also be the video card fails at that mode.

As well, the graphics locks up with part of one screen's image superimpose on another. i have to close that prog.,(Netscape) and reopen it to get rid of the problem.
 
For those who own this 23" LCD, how do you view the text of internet browser or text editor, among other text reading screen?

The res. is so high at 1920x1200 that it is like an eye exam. I like some of the owner's input on this.

I jump from 1280x1024 on my 20" to 1600x1200 on my 21" and it's hard to read some of the screens as they are too small. SO I increase the font size in the viewing, but it becomes an exercise of bigger screen, bigger fonts, same difference kind of story.
 
clark_carty said:
said.....

Found this on the Chaintech website under all the new PCI Express, 5300/5750/5900 cards......
Support for single-link DVI for compatibility with next-
generation flat panel displays with resolutions greater than
1600x1200 without the need for reduced blanking

(And for the 6800 cards).....:
Support for single-link DVI for compatibility with next generation flat panel displays with resolutions greater than 1600x1200 without the need for reduced blanking
Maximum single-link bandwidth: 165MHz

Looks like my next video card will be Chaintech
Click to expand...


Clark, thanks. I'm gonna visit the Chaintech site.
Thanks to everyone for their "POLL" answers.
It appears the guy at Evga was wrong when he said "6800GT WONT go to 1920x1200 DVI, only the 6800-Ultra will".
But in his defense, check this statement by another vendor.......

The "PNY" 256MB 6800-GT says, right on the retail box, it won't run LCDs over 1600x1200 DVI.
At the end of a List of "supported resolutions" (going all way from 640x480 to 2035x1520) the box adds this wierdy: "SUPPORTS DIGITAL FLAT PANEL MONITORS UP TO 1600X1200 RESOLUTION".
(Apparently, it wants you to use your 15-pin analog cable if you go over 1600x1200).

So, Evga and PNY are both saying the Nvidia 6800GT won't run at 1920x1200 in DVI.
But a poster here says his 6800GT does so, in DVI, with no problem.
:D Confusing :D
I think I'll just get me a nice X800-Pro, and hope for the best.
Who's a good vendor that has them in stock, reasonable?
 
It may be the fact that Chaintech as added an external driver chip instead of using the internal one in the 6800. And they may have actually done testing and verifyed the signal integrity, etc, while the other vendors have merely copied Nvidia's PCB and slapped parts down.

I ordered my L2335 today, unfortunately it will be driven by the analog connection on my Geforce3 for a while.

I'm getting a 925 based MB with PCI Express and nobody has released the PCX6800 cards yet. I was told by one vendor the middle of August.

Clark
 
Happy Hopping said:
For those who own this 23" LCD, how do you view the text of internet browser or text editor, among other text reading screen?

The res. is so high at 1920x1200 that it is like an eye exam. I like some of the owner's input on this.

I jump from 1280x1024 on my 20" to 1600x1200 on my 21" and it's hard to read some of the screens as they are too small. SO I increase the font size in the viewing, but it becomes an exercise of bigger screen, bigger fonts, same difference kind of story.
Click to expand...
Hehe, well its widescreen so you can fit more fonts per line..lol.

But i run it on default font size and seems fine to me. But i dont have any vision problems... yet..lol.
 
Happy Hopping said:
For those who own this 23" LCD, how do you view the text of internet browser or text editor, among other text reading screen?

The res. is so high at 1920x1200 that it is like an eye exam. I like some of the owner's input on this.

I jump from 1280x1024 on my 20" to 1600x1200 on my 21" and it's hard to read some of the screens as they are too small. SO I increase the font size in the viewing, but it becomes an exercise of bigger screen, bigger fonts, same difference kind of story.
Click to expand...

At 1920x1200 on the 23" everything appears to be the same size as it was at 1280x1024 on my 17". I have a 21" CRT at work and at 1600x1200 everything appears smaller than it does at 1920x1200 on the 23".
 
I can't see how the text be readable, as in ASCII text, or HTML screen that the web site locked the font size, not letting you increase the font size.
 
Here are a few poor quality pics of my new 23" Apple monitor for those who are interested, powered by a 6800 Ultra.

Apple 23"
 
time to put a hurt on this thread a little..lol.
heres a screenshot of doom3 in widescreen 1920x1200 ultra mode.
wsdoom.jpg
 
As we can see from the picture, also Doom3 doesn´t scale right on 16:10 resolutions (Farcry is another example, games that really give you more visible surface are very rare). Nevertheless it looks very fine in 1920x1200.Unfortunately I will need a Quadro FX card for the 30" Apple Screen and I don´t want do go higher than a Quadro FX 3000 which at most performs like a FX 5900 Ultra. Doom3 at 1920x1200 or even the native resolution will be out range for this card. Hope the Interpolation of the panel will be good.
 
too bad id could not do the widescreen right.....seem like they would have designed for the future which in my opinion is the widescreen format for pcs....
how about some more photos of something a little more exciting?
 
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