HP L2335 23" 16ms... sweet

dynamis said:
What video card are you driving the L2335 with? Is it possible to run all-digital DVI-I at 1920 x 1200?

From the specs I have seen you have to run DVI-D with the 24-pin dual channel to get the video bandwidth required to produce 1920 x 1200 at 60fps.

I thought that DVI-I maxed out at 1600 x 1200 in 4:3.

Is anyone out there running FarCry at 1920 x 1200 on an L2335 with an ATI X800 on a PCI Express graphics port, all-digitally through DVI at 60fps?
Click to expand...

Pffft. Riiight.

1920x1200 (noAA, 4xAF) on a 9800XT, AGP 8X, all digitally through DVI at maybe 20 fps.

See this white paper for info on DVI-I and DVI-D: http://www.proxima.com/downloads/pdf/DVI-WhitePaper.pdf
Click to expand...

I read the white paper. I don't care about Far Cry. But what of the HP documentation that says the maximum resolution is 1600x1200 with DVI? Is this more bogus documentation?

It sounds like canislupy is running this using DVI at full-res. Whether application/game X works or not is a different issue, no?

So is the HP doc wrong? The whtie paper was useful, but seemed to tell me that DVI-D would be required, and the specs don't say anything about DVI-D. Also, I'm a DVI newbie. Will purchase a DVI card to get the most bang out of this display (and to run dual inputs, DVI & VGA), but the manual says this:

"The video mode supported by the DVI-I connector is determined by the video cable used. For digital operation, use the DVI-D to DVI-D signal cable provided. For analog operation, the DVI-I to VGA signal cable must be attached to the DVI-I input."

This makes it sound like the beast supports DVI-D to DVI-D, which would allow 1920x1200 digitally. Did I read this right?

Can someone clarify modes of operation? And what cable does one need? (Or is everything bundled?)

Brendan
 
brmiller said:
But what of the HP documentation that says the maximum resolution is 1600x1200 with DVI? Is this more bogus documentation?
Click to expand...
what documentation are you referring to? On page B-1 of the L2335 (Oct '03) user manual, it states:

Maximum Graphics Resolution:
1920 x 1200 (60 Hz) digital input
1920 x 1200 (60 Hz) analog input

I couldn't find mention of a 1600x1200 rez. (isn't that 4:3 anyway?)

.leo
 
So it does. I can't remember where I saw that. I remember somewhere where it said something like

Maximum Resolution: 1920x1200 (analog), 1600x1200 (digital)

Not fully understanding DVI at the time, I thought that meant you could only get 1600x1200 on DVI. But that's not what it said. Looking more closely at the manual and http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/11868_ca/11868_ca.HTML I see that the truth is

Horizontal Frequency 30 to 94 kHz (VGA input); 30 to 92 KHz (DVI input) (for modes with pixel clock less than 157 MHz)

and

Maximum Pixel Clock Speed 202 MHz (VGA input); 162 MHz (DVI input)

So you can still get 1920x1200 @ 60Hz on the DVI input, except that a) it will run at a slower clock (mode 24 on page B-1) and b) it will be an analog signal on the DVI input. Is there a limit on a digital source using DVI (DVI-D)? I thought the point of DVI was digital input? It seems that DVI-I can be either analog or digital.

So confused, but basic question (1920x1200 on DVI) is answered. Thanks.

Brendan
 
Here's links from UK sites. I guess this is an old data sheet on HP L2335 Version 4 March 2004 but I'm :confused: where is the truth :) check out model part numbers.... :rolleyes:

http://www.bechtle.co.uk/medias/M9XAMx6IObxj5wKshJYV58-30.pdf 25ms March 2004

Data Sheet -- http://h20195.www2.hp.com/search/pdf/090017ad81bec9bb.pdf

QuickSpecs -- http://h20195.www2.hp.com/search/pdf/090017ad81c14941.pdf 16ms 10 May 2004

White Paper -- http://h20195.www2.hp.com/search/pdf/090017ad8130ce37.pdf

Pixel Defect -- http://h20195.www2.hp.com/search/pdf/090017ad81bb2025.pdf

All this for those who still confused to make you more confused.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Your only obligation in any lifetime is to be true to yourself.
Being true to anyone else or anything else is . . . impossible."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
brmiller said:
So you can still get 1920x1200 @ 60Hz on the DVI input, except that a) it will run at a slower clock (mode 24 on page B-1) and b) it will be an analog signal on the DVI input. Is there a limit on a digital source using DVI (DVI-D)? I thought the point of DVI was digital input? It seems that DVI-I can be either analog or digital.

So confused, but basic question (1920x1200 on DVI) is answered.
Click to expand...
You bring up some good points... Why would DVI have a slower pixel clock? And will it really be an analog signal when running 1920 through DVI (where does it mention this)?

Pioneer,
Here is a list of change that have been made to the quickspec pages... (which might explain why we see different specs in different places):
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/11868_na/11868_na_Changes.HTML

.leo
 
Leo,

Great :) thank you very much for clarifying HP L2335 confusion. ;)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Follow your bliss, and doors will open where there were no doors before."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I am glad this proves that all of us that have the P9615A#ABA have 16ms refresh and also 500:1 contrast!
 
I wonder what are the chances of this thing going on sale? Or the price going down in the near future? I would love one, but the price is holding me back.

The best price I can find online is $1,450.15 @ infinity-micro for a refurb. You still get a 1yr warrenty so I guess a refurb isn't too bad.
http://www.infinity-micro.com/prodLG.jsp?fap=cnet&prodId=fd342f661d.30001

I would just be worried that I would buy one now, and next year at this time we will see them going for $700. For me this would be a looong term purchase, I would expect this thing to outlive my next few computers ;)
 
yeah, but the 1 year warranty is crap considering it's a 3/3/3 (parts, screen, labor) warranty on the new one.. :)

I think I was selling them for 1650.00....special order (i.e. 2week delivery time)

cheers,

dave
 
Well I couldnt take it anymore, I pulled the trigger too, im joining the L2335 crowd! Holy crap am I going to be broke :(

Final Price w/FedEx Ground: $1,478.00 - Brand New L2334 P9615A
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5105280533

I talked with Harlan Moore of ocitech, he has 7 of these left after my purchase, had 9 when I first talked to him a fews hours ago. As somebody buys one he lists another one. Hes flexible on shipping the listing says $49 for 2day, but will ship however you want.

Heres the current L2335 from ocitech:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=51047&item=5105319456&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
 
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
One thing to think about are the new 23" and 30" monitors that Apple is *most likely* going to be announcing tomorrow or sometime next week at WWDC2004. According to thinksecret.com:

Sources have confirmed the three new thin film transistor (TFT) active-matrix liquid crystal displays will be available in 20-inch, 23-inch and 30-inch sizes. The 20-inch model will have a maximum resolution of 1680 x 1050 pixels with a viewable area of 20.1 inches. The 23-inch, HD-ready model will have a maximum resolution of 1920 x 1200 pixels with a viewable area of 23.0 inches. The 30-inch, HD-ready model will have a maximum resolution of 2560 x 1600 pixels with a viewable area of 29.7 inches.

2560 x 1600 :eek:

They'll look pretty, but probably be pretty expensive. Also, rumor has it that apple is moving away from their proprietary ADC connector and will have normal DVI.

.leo
 
What are the build dates of the monitors you bought? Is there a way to tell when it was built by looking at the serial number?
Click to expand...

They have the manufactured date printed on the label on the outside of the box, and also on the back of the monitor itself.

The best price I can find online is $1,450.15 @ infinity-micro for a refurb. You still get a 1yr warrenty so I guess a refurb isn't too bad.
Click to expand...

I strongly suggest you deal with Hp direct on this monitor. I was able to get negotiate a final price of $1512.00, plus S/H & tax. I also had to go through 3 different monitors before I got one that was defect free. The third one has a gorgeous picture and I am very happy. I am also very happy with the support from HP on 2 returns. I could not imagine going through this with another vendor.
 
[Maximum Pixel Clock Speed 202 MHz (VGA input); 162 MHz (DVI input)

So you can still get 1920x1200 @ 60Hz on the DVI input, except that a) it will run at a slower clock (mode 24 on page B-1) and b) it will be an analog signal on the DVI input. Is there a limit on a digital source using DVI (DVI-D)? I thought the point of DVI was digital input? It seems that DVI-I can be either analog or digital.

So confused, but basic question (1920x1200 on DVI) is answered. Thanks.

Brendan[/QUOTE]

DVI-I will carry both analog and digital video signal with a single TMDS 165Mhz transmitter. analog limited to 2048x1536 (which supports the 1920 x 1200) and digital limited to 1600 x 1200.

I think that a lot of the users connected with say the ati 9800xt via DVI-I are really driving their monitor analog at 1920 x 1200 or digitally at slower clock at 1920 x 1200 which hampers performance. You just can't drive a 1920 x 1200 monitor with a single TMDS 165MHz transmitter very well. You have limited video bandwidth.

You really need to drive the HP L2335 and the new PC-compatible thin-bezel apple cinema displays with dual-link DVI-I 24-pin activated or DVI-D each with DUAL TMDS 165MHz transmitters. That's why I think to actually drive these displays at optimal performance you need the ATI X800 PE which says the following on its spec sheet:

"Dual integrated 10 bit per channel 400 MHz DACs Integrated 165 MHz TMDS transmitter (DVI 1.0 / HDMI compliant and HDCP ready)"

Anyone find a price for the new PC-compatible apple cinema display 20" for less than $1299? response time 16ms reported but I haven't seen a review to confirm.



TMDS 165Mhz transmitter
 
Dynamis, nice post.

Here is what I don't get... why are these figures on the monitor's spec sheet and rather than on the graphics card's spec sheet (even though this is probably mentioned in the user guide or white paper whatever graphics card). Is this limitation built into the monitor? If we were to get DUAL TMDS hardware, would it be able to drive the monitor digitally?

Also, and I hate to seem retarded on this subject, if I were to hook a DVI cable from let's say an ATI 9500 pro, to the DVI port on this monitor, would it really be analog? (running at 1900x1200)

I doubt we will see much price fluctuation in apple's products, because they usually control the pricing pretty stringently... however, edu discounts, coupon codes, and avoiding tax (by purchasing out of state) usually helps.

Thanks,
.leo
 
Then again I may be wrong. I fear the X800 really only has 1 TMDS 165Mhz transmitter running at the ceiling to drive an lcd at 1920 x 1200. For true high performance running these new large HD 16:9 and 16:10 displays you really need a video card with DUAL TMDS 165MHz transmitters.

So where out there can I find the video card I am looking for here?

What the @#%$ why not make a video card with QUAD-channel TMDS 165Mhz transmitters (2 x dual-link 24-pin DVI-I) connectors to drive 2 x L2335 23" panels side by side? The price would still be less than the new 30" apple monster.
 
To add more confusion to this issue, Apple released their displays today as we had known they would. The 23" version uses the same LG panel and they list the contrast ratio as 400:1. So we've seen LG say 500:1, HP say 350:1 and Apple say 400:1 for the same exact panel. They did however say 16ms response time for all 3 monitors.

The HP guys swears 16ms and 350:1 is correct and that his company's website is wrong by stating 25ms and 500:1.
 
Yeah, looks like to really drive these high-res 23" and 30" at high performance you need either the Nvidia Quadro FX4000:

" Two Dual-Link Digital Display Connectors
Dual-link TMDS transmitters support ultra-high-resolution panels--which result in amazing image quality producing detailed photorealistic images."

or the PCI-X ATI FireGL V7100:

"Display support
Dual DVI-I supports any combination of digital and analog displays1
Maximum resolution of 2048x1536 per display (dual mode)
3840 x 2400 support (dual link2) QHDTV or HDTV quad-channel
Independent resolution and refresh rate selection for any two connected displays
Dual integrated 10-bit per channel 400 MHz DACs
Integrated 165 MHz TMDS transmitter (DVI & HDCP compliant)"

The other lower end "gamer" class video cards by Nvidia and ATI have to use reduced blanking timings to get true 1920 x 1200 digitally on DVI-I by pushing to the limit the single TMDS transmitter.
 
nomar said:
The HP guys swears 16ms and 350:1 is correct and that his company's website is wrong by stating 25ms and 500:1.
Click to expand...
Check that - the HP guy got back to Ioman on Friday and confirmed it is 500:1 and that he had conflicting info from the supplier.
 
nomar said:
The HP guys swears 16ms and 350:1 is correct and that his company's website is wrong by stating 25ms and 500:1.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think the HP guy doesn't know what he is talking about, because on April 8th, they revised the spec sheet to reflect the new contrast ratio... Now, if this was a first run and they mistakenly put 500:1, I can see how someone could thing that 500:1 was incorrect. However, to actually revise a document to reflect a change makes me think the 500:1 is legit. I hope that made sense :p

.leo
 
If cost were the same, would you guys rather have the HP or Apple 23" ?

It's actually a tough call... the Apple is very stylin' and I like the USB and Firewire hubs. Also, I like their solution to the cable mess. But the HP offers a slew more inputs, PiP, hieght adjustment, and the ability to pivot.

I would have bet a lot that I would have wanted the Apple display more... but now that it is released - the HP actually seems better... cheaper too :cool:

.leo
 
It sounds to me like the LG product engineers are throwing around the contrast ratio specs as if they are not important. Apple and HP only know what they are being told.
 
leobag said:
If cost were the same, would you guys rather have the HP or Apple 23" ?

It's actually a tough call... the Apple is very stylin' and I like the USB and Firewire hubs. Also, I like their solution to the cable mess. But the HP offers a slew more inputs, PiP, hieght adjustment, and the ability to pivot.

I would have bet a lot that I would have wanted the Apple display more... but now that it is released - the HP actually seems better... cheaper too :cool:

.leo
Click to expand...

I like the Apple Display...but lack of Component Inputs is a deal breaker..

Whats the point if your spending almost $2K on a 23" LCD if you cant at least use it as an HD Monitor for either TV/Video Games..
 
dynamis said:
Yeah, looks like to really drive these high-res 23" and 30" at high performance you need either the Nvidia Quadro FX4000:

" Two Dual-Link Digital Display Connectors
Dual-link TMDS transmitters support ultra-high-resolution panels--which result in amazing image quality producing detailed photorealistic images."

or the PCI-X ATI FireGL V7100:

"Display support
Dual DVI-I supports any combination of digital and analog displays1
Maximum resolution of 2048x1536 per display (dual mode)
3840 x 2400 support (dual link2) QHDTV or HDTV quad-channel
Independent resolution and refresh rate selection for any two connected displays
Dual integrated 10-bit per channel 400 MHz DACs
Integrated 165 MHz TMDS transmitter (DVI & HDCP compliant)"

The other lower end "gamer" class video cards by Nvidia and ATI have to use reduced blanking timings to get true 1920 x 1200 digitally on DVI-I by pushing to the limit the single TMDS transmitter.
Click to expand...

That really sucks if that is the only way to get a dual-link signal. I don't really need a workstation gpu.

On the other hand, these new giant high rez lcd's are the only things I've ever heard of that actually use dual-link, so hopefully that will mean increased support with newer gpu's. Perhaps this could be a saving grace of the increased speed and bandwidth of pci express.
 
TheGameguru said:
Whats the point if your spending almost $2K on a 23" LCD if you cant at least use it as an HD Monitor for either TV/Video Games..
Click to expand...

Thats what projection TV's or projector screens are for. :p
 
Does anyone know what panel manufacture apple got their new 30 inch from?! Im hoping that someone will give apple a little compition to lower that 3299 price tag! I think it with dropping LCD prices of other manufactures other than apple who rarely budges on prices the 30 inch will eventually become around 2600-2900.

Also, for the HP L2335 owners, how do you like your new monitor and have you had and problems with it? I noticed someone got the monitor for 1510 direct from HP and I was wondering how he got them to drop the price? Educational discount?
 
Surly said:
Thats what projection TV's or projector screens are for. :p
Click to expand...

not if I need the screen less than 1-2 feet from my face..

Projector's(TV) are for Home Theatre rooms not my Computer Workstation area..
 
TheGameguru said:
not if I need the screen less than 1-2 feet from my face..

Projector's(TV) are for Home Theatre rooms not my Computer Workstation area..
Click to expand...

I agree... also projection is far worse of a picture in my opinion. I would rather have an LCD any day of the week.... unless of course your purchasing a 12k projector with true 1080p like sony's
 
Krazy_Joe said:
Im thinking of buying one of these bad boys... but damn that 30 inch apple is the pretty tight! :eek:
Click to expand...
Krazy, yeah, the apple's do look dope. I was one that was really excited for the release of their new displays. But now, after the fact, I am not that impressed. Well, first, the 30" is very cool, very impressive, very one-of-a-kind wow factor (too bad you need a $600 now-apple-only video card to run it). As far as the 23" apple, compared to the 23" HP... I've said this in a couple threads, so I am just gonna repost it here... Where the Apple excels in design, cabling, and usb/firewire... the lacks are too prominent

- no height adjustment
- no multiple computer inputs
- no TV/HD inputs
- no axis pivot
- no integrated power supply (the HP has no external brick!)

Now, if the HP and Apple 23" use the same display, and the HP is cheaper... I am gonna have to go with the HP.
 
Krazy_Joe said:
Also, for the HP L2335 owners, how do you like your new monitor and have you had and problems with it? I noticed someone got the monitor for 1510 direct from HP and I was wondering how he got them to drop the price? Educational discount?
Click to expand...

I'd like to know that too!
 
Well I got my L2335 in on Monday at around lunch... I so did not care to go back to work... :D Other than an oddity with a cheap DVI cable I love it. The error was green pixels and rows of green pixels would flip out on dark video scenes and if the desktop was black. I tried reducing the DVI frequency via ATI's control panel. That would help some but didn't correct the error. So needless to say on the drive back to work I was tweaking out ala Tweak from South Park. (O BTW did I mention I bought it off eBay for $1375, so no returns). Then I used the DVI cable that was included with the screen and it seems to have cleared up just fine and no reduction nor alternate digital frequency. *does a little dance* :D Movies look awesome and even though I had to tone graphics on Far Cry (kicks his 1.7 GHz P4 Willamette 423socket) I am able to play it at 1920x1200. It really does just immerse you with the size and ratio :eek:
Any way, I'm happy with it!
Here's my desk until I go back to the dorms in the Fall and am stuck with just my new LCD :rolleyes:
 
Thanks dynamis for clarifying what I almost understood about DVI-I, digital, analog, and dual DVI transmitters. Are those two (the Nvidia FX4000 or the FireGL V7100) the only ones that you know of that provide 2 transmitters?

I mean, let's answer the question: "What do you do if you *really* want 1920x1200 digitally?" What's this noise about reducing blanking times and pushing the single TMDS to the limit? Does it work? Is it safe? How's the PQ?

Brendan
 
Is the monitor bright enough.. From what I understand in order to get proper colors u have to drop the brightness..
 
Still trying to figure out how to make the best 1920x1200 digital DVI solution prior to buying I continue to hunt down video card specs and DVI specs. (I've come up with several Chaintech-branded GeForce cards which purport to support dual-link DVI, BTW.) I found this interesting page (a year old now) which was very useful:

http://www.extremetech.com/print_article/0,1583,a=44462,00.asp

To be DVI compliant, the graphics hardware must support a minimum of 25.175MHz, which is the signal frequency required to support 640x480 pixel resolution at 60Hz. Today's DVI 1.0 spec specifies a maximum single-channel bandwidth of 165MHz. This is good enough to support a 1600x1200 display in most cases, including CRTs refreshing at 60Hz.

Note that some LCDs may require less stringent blanking interval timing. A blanking interval is the time it takes for the display to start displaying the next frame or field. CRT's often require fairly high blanking intervals, so the electron gun can realign to the start of the refresh cycle. LCD flat panels often require smaller blanking intervals, but not all LCD blanking intervals are the same. The standard requires a miminum spec of 5% blanking interval for LCD displays, but if the blanking interval is longer, somewhat higher bandwidth may be required. You can theoretically "get away" with a clock rate of around 142MHz, if you assume a 5% blanking interval -- but hardware that will only support 142 MHz for 1600x1200 is skating on thin ice.

DVI is based on the TMDS (transition minimized differential signaling) electrical protocol. TMDS is a differential signaling scheme that encodes pixel data and ships it over a serial link that typically consists of three to six data channel pairs plus a clock channel pair. Note, however, that DVI can support alternative media, such as fiberoptic transmission. (For more gory details on the DVI standard, you can actually download the DVI 1.0 spec from the DDWG web site.)

If you move to two DVI channels, then the standard allows for even higher bandwidth. Dual-link DVI graphics cards today (such as nVidia's Quadro FX series) can support up to 330MHZ, which can easily handle 8 bits per pixel up to 2048x1536. A card with two DVI channels contains two TMDS transmitters and two DVI connectors. These two connectors can be used to either connect two different digital displays, allowing the user to have a dual display system. Alterntaively, they can be used to connect to a single display device that requires a lot of signal bandwidth. Note that 2048x1536 (aka "QXGA") will only require 240MHz of signal bandwidth in typical cases, but that's still more than the 165MHz maximum bandwidth that one DVI channel can deliver. If you want to use an ultra high resolution display, like Viewsonic's VP2290b, then you'll need graphics hardware with two DVI transmitters.
Click to expand...
That said, any card that will do 1920x1200 digitally without reduced blanking interval (which I read here to mean possible image degradation) will have two TMDS trnasmitters and two DVI connectors. Where, then, do you connect the two DVI connectors? The HP L2335 doesn't have two DVI inputs! Is there some funky Y-connector to combine the two signals? Or would the display need to have two DVI receivers as well (would make sense). I'm guessing the HP L2335 does not.

The Viewsonic VP2290b, as a point of comparison, is a 204dpi 3840x2400 23" widescreen which, at 9.2 megapixels is way over the 165MHz bandwidth of single-link DVI. It's specs list a TMDS DVI-D connector, supposedly singular. Have to go look up what a DVI-D connector is.

Please help. The more I read, the more confused I am.

Brendan
 
leobag said:
As far as the 23" apple, compared to the 23" HP... I've said this in a couple threads, so I am just gonna repost it here... Where the Apple excels in design, cabling, and usb/firewire... the lacks are too prominent

- no height adjustment
- no multiple computer inputs
- no TV/HD inputs
- no axis pivot
- no integrated power supply (the HP has no external brick!)

Now, if the HP and Apple 23" use the same display, and the HP is cheaper... I am gonna have to go with the HP.
Click to expand...

- Well, it can tilt at least, though that's not a replacement for height adjustment.

- Unless you need to switch between two computers frequently using the same screen, you don't really need the extra VGA input. Also, you would probably want to avoid using VGA in any case because of the potentionally inferior image quality. Because of the better cable management on the Apple monitor, it will be much easier to switch DVI cabels than on the HP L2335.

- The lack of component input is a potential issue, but DVI is becoming evermore frequent in everything nowadays, including DVD-players and tuner boxes etc. So I don't see why the DVI connection couldn't be used for movie viewing unless of course you've already got some equipment that lacks DVI. It IS an issue though for console owners. I know I've seen some Component <-> DVI converter somewhere, so maybe that could be solution.

- The pivot function could easily prove to be cumbersome on a 23" monitor with cables hanging off the back of the panel as is the case with the HP L2335. Also, since the screen size is large enough as it is, I could easily live without this particular function. Does any HP L2335 user find this function useful?

- External power brick equals slimmer design and vice versa. Between slimmer design and built-in power brick I'd choose slimmer design any day, though I'd of course like to have both ;)

Maybe I'm biased because of what seems to be a superior design of the Apple monitor, but I think the trade-offs are worth it - provided that the price of the Apple monitor isn't significantly higher than that of the HP L2335...
 
cccc said:
<snippage>
Maybe I'm biased because of what seems to be a superior design of the Apple monitor, but I think the trade-offs are worth it - provided that the price of the Apple monitor isn't significantly higher than that of the HP L2335...
Click to expand...

The apple display is $1999. An eduicational discount drops it to $1799. That's $100 more MSRP than the HP display. However, apple is communist. (not bashing them, it's just the truth. Apple hardware is one price.) So you won't find that display any cheaper than $1799 as they have crazy rules about lower prices. Something tells me that untill apple makes a NEW 23" display 2 years from now or whatever, it'll stay at the $1799 price. Also, they fact that Apple owns all the stores it sells the displays in, lets them control the price even better. In the event that the product gets sold via other stores (i.e. iPod) you'll notice it's never cheaper than the eduicational discount. The one thing a retail store CAN do is offer something like buy the iPod for $399 and get this $40 Best Buy gift card, but that wasn't advertised, you had to ask for it.

However, HP has resellers and they DO compete in pricing. So while the HP's MSPR is $1699 you can get it shipped new to your door for ~$1650 from page computers or CDW, or a few other places.

Oh yeah, Apple charges sales tax. So that's like another $100 more here (6%)

Apple: looks purdy.. same innards, no extra features.

HP: looks good, assloads of functionality and don't forget Picture in Picture!

Basically
Apple is selling a monitor. HP is selling a tunerless HDTV, and it's a good bit cheaper.

cccc said:
<snippage>
Maybe I'm biased because of what seems to be a superior design of the Apple monitor
Click to expand...
I still can't see how you call $200 more, less features, and a "better" looking casing for the display "superior design"
 
Well, you got me there, I don't have the faintest clue about US pricings and taxes since I don't live there :) For someone in the US the HP L2335 may be a better deal, but where I live the HP L2335 at $2865 is pretty damn expensive ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top