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HP 2509b Review

Would like to know how this compares to the 2511x.

The 2511x without VESA kills it for me. But I could fabricate a bracket if it's superior to the 2509s
 
No, I just hate AG coating and don't feel like having to return my displays 4x to get one without bleeding and tinting. I have no intention of keeping this any ways, just something to test for other people (gamers) while I wait for the PLS displays or get that glossy Hazro.
 
TN=bleeding+dead pixels
IPS=bleeding+dead pixels+tinting
 
both my 2090uxi have NO bleeding, NO dead pixels and NO tinting?

IPS has less bleeding and dead pixels than TN for sure. In general, the manufacturing process has much higher tolerances and quality control. Hence the price difference. e-IPS is changing that some unfortunately.
 
Can you post a photo of that ghosting test from tftcentral that you had me perform on my 2511x (with similar camera settings)?
 
NCX said:
The HP has the best picture I have seen on a TN panel followed by the Acer G245hbmid
Click to expand...

So is your overall impression/experience of the HP that it's better than the Acer?

Because I've used the 2510i, which is the european version of the 2509... and I wasn't all that impressed by it.

It's strong points is, though, that it's pretty fast (the OD does sucks), is large and has nice colors, and is of course glossy.

This wasn't something that bothered me much or anything, but...

I couldn't get it to properly display 72hz (used same timings as you did for the G245H and other timings as well); it would report it in the OSD, but the screen would feel weird, kinda slow and sluggish in some way.

I assume that the G245H really does displays 72hz properly, without any problems?
 
Yeah the G245H displays 72hz properly. Have yet to try 72hz on the HP.

The HP 2509p does have a better contrast ratio, however bottom center of the screen is tinted a bit blue. There is only a tiny bit of backlight bleeding, but it is hardly distracting even with the lights out. The Acer had the slight edge here w/o the blue tint for dark room viewing, I would still say it is the better monitor due to screen uniformity and 72hz support. The benifit of the better black levels on the HP during the daytime really isn't noticeable because it is glossy.

I have only played RDR on 360 and used the test programs, will have to play more games to see if it ghosts with certain color transitions. Can't give a proper conclusion yet as to which is the faster display.

One thing I did notice, which is EXTREMELY annoying, is that it seems to tear when used as a second display when watching films.
 
Seems that the B is probably a different panel from the M version, as the 2510i is the european version of the 2509m (probably, because I think the 2510i was released before the B was)... and the 2510i that I tested had massive bleeding in comparison to the one in your video. It looked worse than in your "long exposure" photo.

The 2510i is still on sale though, so maybe now they are using the 2509b panel, but keeping the name.

Or maybe they all use the same panel. Maybe mine was just bad, or maybe yours was unusually good. Or maybe they're all of random quality.

The vertical gamma shift seems to be about as bad on yours though (very noticeably darker at the top).

The Acer G245H is still on sale here and it's claimed to be glossy, but I'm not 100% sure it actually is (it's called HAbid and is rated to 2ms).

The 2510i has/claims 2.5ms rather than the 5ms of the 2509.

Either they're more different than similar, or you're just nowhere near as sensitive to ghosting/streaking as I am (however, I wouldn't call myself a hardcore gamer or anything like that, I'm far from that), because I could see quite heavy ghosting and streaking in just about anything with the monitor. Games, movies, scrolling webpages, dragging windows, etc.

Compared to the G245H, how is the vertical gamma shift? Worse or better?

I'm thinking of either buying the 2510i again, or to get the G245H. If the the G245H has less shifting I'll probably go for it. One minus/annoyance though is the size difference, the G245H is only 23.6" / 0.2721mm. One thing I liked about the 2510i was the 25" size / 0.2883mm (which is a bit high though, sometimes).

Some interesting things to note:

NA 2509m: 5ms
NA 2509b: 3ms
EU 2510i: 2.5ms
NA G245H: 5ms
EU G245H: 2ms
 
Vertical Gamma shift is a bit worse than the Acer, which should be expected from a larger TN panel. The Samsung S27A550H had far worse gamma shift and PQ than the HP. I believe the actual screens size for the HP is 24.83" and the Acer is 22.8" or so.

Still the shift was really only noticeable when going through the calibration process and full screen colors. The slight blue tint on mine was a result of the backlighting, not gamma shift. My desk is also set up at the perfect level so im neither looking down/up at the panel. For example the [H] grey looked relatively even comapred to a full screen light orange and light pink hue.

I still have to update the response time part in the written review.

During Killzone 3 my gun was ever so slightly blurrier during fast camera pans compared to the Acer. Again though, my PS3 controller sensitivity is maxed and I'm sitting <60cm away.

In Dirt 2 I watched a lot of replays and only saw some tiny ghosting during purposefully rapid camera spins on passing by trees. Once out of the trailer though looking at the MY RIDES/OPTIONS/EVENTS MENUS and panning the camera left-right rapidly I could see a clear ghost image on the Recaro things and the Red cloth thing on the center right (click on link)

I only played Dirt 2/L4D2/RDR/Killzone 3, if you play different games with different color paletes you may see different ghosting effects on the different color transitions. I took the monitor back so I can really only describe the ghosting effects in the games I played and provide the PixerPixAn/Digital Versus picture results. I do a lot of weird things with camera pans and cranked sensitivties to find ghosting that most aren't going to do, still I may not be as sensitive as I think I am despite using a CRT for the last month and a bit.

Most people I know and have talked to online leave their sensitivty at the slow defaults or sit quite far away compared to me which is why I try to say unless you are hardcore you won't see the ghosting.

The European 2710m Reviewed by PRAD has poor contrast, if the the 250i is simillar and has bleeding it will be far more evident due to the much lighter black level. The North American 2509m uses an LG panel according to TFT Central.

PRAD measured a very fast response on the 2710 time but....

PRAD said:
Glowing edges (corona effect), we could not observe, we can see ghosting under certain circumstances. An example would include: A dark object moving quickly on a bright but not white. This moves the object a bright tail behind him.
Click to expand...

I saw the light tail effect on some zombie movement in L4D2 and slight streaks on the light grey/brown colors (bridge and trees in picture) agaisnt the light blue sky in L4D2 on the 2509b.

Not sure about the 2509b's panel yet, but I will do some digging. I can say though that the 3 in store B models I've seen didn't have any blue tinting on the bottom, nor did the 2509m I saw.

The Acer Bid versions in NA are all matte, I assume it is the same in Europe. I think some one dug up pretty much all the panel info on the different G245H models in my PX2370 Review a few months ago.
 
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NCX said:
The Acer Bid versions in NA are all matte, I assume it is the same in Europe.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but I hope you're wrong.

Tried to find some additional info about it and found this:
http://www.amazon.de/Acer-G245HAbid-widescreen-Monitor-Kontrastverhältnis/dp/B0035JL8T0

"Der Monitor ist ein Glare Monitor"

and...

"sieht dank Glare Display noch besser aus."

which Google translates to:

"looks even better thanks to glare display."

A search: http://www.google.de/#sclient=psy&h...gc.r_pw.&fp=947483193353ff61&biw=1280&bih=568



One more thing I can say about the 2510i though is that it has/had some slight yellow tinting going on (that couldn't be solved by adjusting colors), but it was nothing bothersome.

 
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If you you are really sensitive to ghosting you should really be looking at a 120hz Asus VG236H or the upcoming Samsung displays, since you obviously want a Glossy display. If you are console gaming you are going to have to live with some ghosting, unfortunately none of the Glossy displays seem to be as fast as the Matte ones.
 
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I don't play games at all (used to though, years ago). Only have 1 game on the computer, and that I only installed a few months ago to test input lag.

I'm just totally used to every aspect of CRT, so I notice anything odd instantly.

The ghosting on the 2510i, I could spot easily and thought it was really bad (compared to CRT), but I also forgot about it most of the time. Even in the game, which is an FPS.

When it became somewhat distracting/annoying was while watching movies.

What I want is basically a Glossy 24" IPS with an A-TW polarizer. Preferably made by Eizo, because of their good quality control. If 1920x1080, then 24". If 1920x1200, then 25".
 
Tamahagane said:
What I want is basically a Glossy 24" IPS with an A-TW polarizer. Preferably made by Eizo, because of their good quality control. If 1920x1080, then 24". If 1920x1200, then 25".
Click to expand...

Well that is never going to happen, because professional monitors have never been made without AG or AR.
 
If by professional you mean intended for office work environments, then yes that's true.
If by professional you mean simply high quality or high-end, then that's very incorrect.

However the actual reason as to why it probably won't happen has nothing to do with that; rather it's because of the same reason why TN panels are so popular: revenue. They know they can make more money off selling crap displays that people will replace later. It's also because they cater to (and feed) people's laziness and ignorance. People have been made so lazy in regards displays, that they can't be bothered to control their lighting conditions or place the monitor in the correct room position, like people always have done in the past. And ignorance because they don't know what AG is and what it does (other than simply blurring the ohh so scary reflections that they don't know how to deal with themselves).

On the point of laziness, I saw some review on YT of a display and the guy had it RIGHT next up to a huge frickin window with the sun shining in on it. It was ultra bright. The monitor was matte and there was no reflections, but everything on it looked like shit (duh!). Even people in the comments were saying that he should've put it somewhere else or made the video during nighttime.
 
Find me a high quality, glossy monitor that isn't touchscreen. ACD doesn't count. You can even choose from broadcast video monitors if you'd like.
 
Nowadays you can't. That's the point. If there was such a monitor I'd already own it.

Actually I'd probably own the 24" 1920x1200 ACD if it had zero to extremely low input lag and was faster, even though it doesn't have an A-TW polarizer.
 
And why do you think there have been no professional display devices made without AR or AG?

Because it would be really dumb to do so. Getting such devices to remain readable and retain contrast in ambient environments is a science.
 
If you mean "intended for office work environments", then yeah I agree, it would be dumb. If I used a computer in any type of workplace I'd want a matte display (unless the workplace in question was dark or allowed for tweaking the lighting conditions). That's why they should release matte versions separately for corporations to purchase and for people who have no control over their own homes (but what kind of "home" would that be?), or for the really weird (lazy & ignorant) people who just 'feel' that they absolutely need it without any logical reason.
 
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Tamahagane said:
If you mean "intended for office work environments", then yeah I agree, it would be dumb. If I used a computer in any type of workplace I'd want a matte one. That's why they should release matte versions separately for corporations to purchase and for people who have no control over their own homes, or for the really weird people who feel they absolutely need it for some reason + are lazy and ignorant.
Click to expand...


No, that is only how it works in fantasy worlds. Even broadcast video monitors, which are used potentially in dark environments, use an AR coating.

You are just going to have to accept that glossy treatment is never going to be used in a professional monitor because it violates the requirements for such a device. Your reasoning that AG is a bad thing forced upon sheeple too dumb to manage the light in their room is false.
 
NCX said:
I believe thethe actual screens size for the HP is 24.83" and the Acer is 22.8" or so.
Click to expand...

That makes no sense. Maybe the 2509b is 24.83, but the G245H is supposed to be 23.6. It has a dot pitch of 0.2721mm. If it was 22.8 it would be only 0.2629mm.

However, Google results: http://www.google.com/search?q=G245H+"pitch" show the pitch as 0.276, which it would have if it was actually 24". Must be incorrect info. As the screen is 23.6" right? That's what I've read on most places (23.6" screens get listed as 24" sometimes in stores and sometimes they round the number up to attract more people).

The actual screen size can't deviate that much... It's not like with CRT's when they measured in a way so that a 19" is actually 18.1" and a 22" is close to 20". All LCDs I've owned/tested have had the same screen size as claimed.
 
Tamahagane said:
That makes no sense. Maybe the 2509b is 24.83, but the G245H is supposed to be 23.6. It has a dot pitch of 0.2721mm. If it was 22.8 it would be only 0.2629mm.
Click to expand...

They include the bezel with measurements a lot of times. I saw in some spec sheet that the Acer's screen size was 22.83" or so, I could be wrong. I don't have the monitor any more (back to a CRT+C-PVA combo) so I can't measure it.

Peat Moss said:
.
Click to expand...

HP w2588hc Review

Other than being smaller the 2509b has much better color presets and nearly double the contrast ratio which makes losing the 120 pixels totally worth it.
 
Nice review NCX and great pictures. It may not be perfect but it sure does look good.
 
I picked this up from OfficeMax. Looks pretty good overall.

I think they just dropped the price to $220

The contrast looks as good as NCX's measurements.

Black level/viewing angles are not as good as my old dell 2407/2408wfp but still great overall. I'm quite happy with it.
 
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powruser said:
both my 2090uxi have NO bleeding, NO dead pixels and NO tinting?

IPS has less bleeding and dead pixels than TN for sure. In general, the manufacturing process has much higher tolerances and quality control. Hence the price difference. e-IPS is changing that some unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Well the 2090uxi is like the top of the top of IPS monitors, The have the A-TW polarizers which is near impossible to get anymore, and a H-IPS panel.

Once you see the colors on H-IPS, its hard to go back to TNs. I have not played with e-IPS too much yet. I have two monitors with stuck pixels....at 1920 x 1200....the size of the bright spot is so tiny its crazy. A couple of stuck pixels is not the end of the world....bleeding is overrated as a problem, off angle tinting is a problem for TN, not IPS
 
IPS is just as bad as TN in terms of bleeding/stuck pixels. Powruser had just made a thread where 2/3 of his IPS panels had bleeding+other issues.

Can't just use 1 example of a panel and say x panel type has no/less bleeding than panel type y. Still it seems like the QC for e-ips panels<TN going by user reports.
 
Nice review. Found this HP at Best Buy for $200 and am seriously considering picking it up tomorrow. Found this review while looking for some info on it. Was holding out for a 27" but for $120 less and such rave reviews it might be worth passing on 2 extra inches.
 
MacLeod said:
Nice review. Found this HP at Best Buy for $200 and am seriously considering picking it up tomorrow. Found this review while looking for some info on it. Was holding out for a 27" but for $120 less and such rave reviews it might be worth passing on 2 extra inches.
Click to expand...

Same here. I'm strongly considering this monitor right now. :D

Though I'm wondering two things:

1. Does it have an Audio Out/Headphones port to use with the HDMI connection? I can't find any screenshots of the back.
2. How is the dithering/banding on this monitor? I always hated seeing obvious color stepping on gradients, and some TNs seem to be better than others in this regard.
 
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NCX said:
No, I just hate AG coating and don't feel like having to return my displays 4x to get one without bleeding and tinting. I have no intention of keeping this any ways, just something to test for other people (gamers) while I wait for the PLS displays or get that glossy Hazro.
Click to expand...

Yea I use a glossy at home and a AG coating at work. It really is hard to go back to using AG monitors, they seem to take away so much detail.
 
Just watched your video review and I think youve talked me into it. $200 is too good a price to pass up for a 25" monitor this good. Was wanting a 27 but judging by reviews I dont think I could touch this performance in a 27" at double the price so well done sir, you sold me. Think Ill head out to Best Buy now and pick this up.
 
So I got it and its hooked up and running. No dead pixels and I turned the brightness down like OP mentioned in his review. 29 was a bit low so I settled on. Have color temp set to 6500K and this thing looks MUCH better than my old Acer. I always thought it looked pretty good but this HP looks almost as good as my old Sony 17" CRT my wife uses now.

Screen size is just right. I think I couldve done a 27 without any problems (I sit 24-30" away) but like I said, I dont think I couldve touched this image quality for $200 or even $400 in a 27" so it was a good compromise for 2" screen real estate.

Have only done a little gaming but I notice ZERO lag or ghosting. Everything looks perfect. IQ is much better than my Acer.

The glossy is cool for image pop but I get tired of seeing my ugly mug in it whenever the screen goes dark.

But yeah, after a couple hours tinkering with this thing, Im very pleased. Overall build quality feels very solid and image quality is the best Ive seen on an LCD in my limited experience and 25" for $200 is a steal. So thanks OP for the write up. I think my gaming rig is now complete....at least for another month or two.
 
The one thing that is the biggest turn off for an IPS panel to me is the AG coating. Why can't they make a IPS panel that has the AG coating levels of a TN? The Dell U2410 and HPZ24 look horrible to me with that heavy AG coating. To me white color on a IPS panel is like a dity white or almost grey. Where as on a TN panel its actually white.
 
Thanks OP, based on your review, I picked this one as my secondary monitor. I have yet to fine tune the display as it requires quite some finagling to get the best image. I'll try and follow your recommendations (29 brightness) etc.
 
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