How Video Games Change Us

[HardOCP News]

I'm not trying to be a dick but (uh oh, here it comes), to avoid criticism about my lack of knowledge on the subject, I don't write articles about Narnia books. I also believe that people that write Narnia books probably shouldn't write articles about video game violence unless you are an expert on the subject.

It often seems that the more thoughtfully or seriously someone writes about video games, the less they end up wanting to go on writing about them. This can result not only from the toxic, defensive raging of a substantial part of gaming’s fan base but also from a dawning realization that many of the most popular and sophisticated games—perhaps especially those games—remove their players from their humanity in some immeasurable way.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

What a wimp.

Writing an article on a topic she knows absolutely nothing about, and publishing it on a site that lacks comments so no one can refute her with fact based links to scientific study after scientific study showing that video games have no negative impact on the psyche of healthy individuals.

Post fact society indeed.

It's equally bad when people like her and Trump supporters do it. Turns out they have more in common than one might think.

 

[jfreund]

Saw "toxic" in the blurb. No need to read the rest.

 

[Crash5417]

You knew it was coming...pun intended.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

Clickbait

 

[Inu]

Some interesting potential facts, not really interesting in the overall scheme.

 

[thesmokingman]

Playing the game, you may think you feel like you’ve been transported to the western front, but the truth is you really won’t feel anything at all. If the suffering of other people gets trivialized in this and other combat-based video games priding themselves on their grittiness, it is the suffering of the player himself that has been most tidily eliminated.

After equating Westworld as "an extended meditation on video games and the moral damage we do to ourselves when we behave cruelly, whether or not anyone actually gets hurt." The author tries to get at some insight into the pain dealt vs pain received balance. But ultimately fails to make a connection imo. "Even gamers who don’t resort to physical violence may still be affected by constant immersion in a medium where combat is the only viable approach to resolving any problem and where “winning” in the most reductive sense of the word is the only goal."

This article really ignores the basic tenet of entertainment, the core principle behind how entertainment works. And that is the suspension of disbelief. We acknowledge that the films and games we consume are not real, but we play along to get enjoyment out of them. The fact that we don't receive pain from the actions has nothing to do with our moral code nor was it ever at stake to be lost in a game or tv show, since we had to suspend our disbelief that it was real in the first place. It's like the causality dilemma chicken or egg, ya can't play the game if you never accepted that it wasn't real in the first place, so if you know its not real then its just a game so the choices we make in the game are a product of the game and not commensurate with real life choices.

 

[Ducman69]

in some immeasurable way.

In other words, in some way that isn't objectively quantifiable, but I say exists because... because.

 

[Ur_Mom]

This article really ignores the basic tenet of entertainment, the core principle behind how entertainment works. And that is the suspension of disbelief. We acknowledge that the films and games we consume are not real, but we play along to get enjoyment out of them. The fact that we don't receive pain from the actions has nothing to do with our moral code nor was it ever at stake to be lost in a game or tv show, since we had to suspend our disbelief that it was real in the first place. It's like the causality dilemma chicken or egg, ya can't play the game if you never accepted that it wasn't real in the first place, so if you know its not real then its just a game so the choices we make in the game are a product of the game and not commensurate with real life choices.

This right here. If you have problems differentiating between reality and fantasy, I can see a problem. But, that's up to the parent/caretaker to handle. Everyone else can tell the difference. It is NOT REAL. I would never kill a hooker to get my money back (at least, that's my official stance.... ).

I read Narnia, but I know it's not real. I play games, but I know they aren't real.

 

[Ducman69]

I would never kill a hooker to get my money back

Exactly! That's hugely inefficient. If you have a gun, then just don't give her the money in the first place, then there's no reason to kill her to get your money back. This is common sense.

 

[thesmokingman]

Exactly! That's hugely inefficient. If you have a gun, then just don't give her the money in the first place, then there's no reason to kill her to get your money back. This is common sense.

Practicality wise, it's a lot easier to pay first, have consensual you know what than not... lol.

 

[Armenius]

What a wimp.

Writing an article on a topic she knows absolutely nothing about, and publishing it on a site that lacks comments so no one can refute her with fact based links to scientific study after scientific study showing that video games have no negative impact on the psyche of healthy individuals.

Post fact society indeed.

It's equally bad when people like her and Trump supporters do it. Turns out they have more in common than one might think.

The only thing that has been proven a fact is that video game violence can increase aggressive feelings in the player that can last up to 4 minutes after disengaging. That's it. What the PC fail to realize is that aggression does not always lead to violence. I would say that most people who play video games can actually tell the difference between fantasy and reality and they can control their emotions.

 

[Ur_Mom]

Practicality wise, it's a lot easier to pay first, have consensual you know what than not... lol.

Unless you have a rape fetish, then it might be better to not pay first...


Damn, this thread got dark fast.

 

[lironmiron]

Well, I certainly see no conflict of interest here, as she creates fantasy books, which (along with films) are the direct competition of (and are steadily losing to) video games.

Not to mention that the whole issue with Westworld is that the robots -do- feel. During their loop, the robots are conscious and think that they are alive, and that they love the other robots, and that they suffer when something bad happens. If the robots really did not feel anything and/or did not think that they felt anything, the audience would have no issue at all with anything that happens there.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

The only thing that has been proven a fact is that video game violence can increase aggressive feelings in the player that can last up to 4 minutes after disengaging. That's it. What the PC fail to realize is that aggression does not always lead to violence. I would say that most people who play video games can actually tell the difference between fantasy and reality and they can control their emotions.

Agreed.


I will say - however - that this applies to healthy individuals.

it is fully possible that people who are already somehow mentally, psychologically or emotionally compromised may respond differently than your typical healthy person who plays games, but that shouldn't poison the well for everyone else.

 

[Nytegard]

The biggest flaw in Grossman’s argument is the fact that while virtually all young Americans play some form of video game, youth violence—as the open letter to the APA points out—is at a 40-year low. Understandably, the author seizes upon the one form of youth violence that has increased: school shootings, what Dave Cullen, author of Columbine, the definitive work on that tragedy, terms “spectacle murders.” But even Mary Ellen O’Toole, a retired FBI profiler who specializes in such crimes, has stated, “It’s my experience that video games do not cause violence.” The Secret Service has reached similar conclusions. Many young spectacle killers do play violent video games, but so does nearly every nonviolent kid, as well.

Why does the author ignore this statement, trying to disprove it? As for gun violence increasing? Perhaps it isn't video games? Maybe the parents don't store their guns safely away? Perhaps the population is far greater than what it was 40 years ago? (214 million in 1976 vs 324 million in 2016) There are other reasons besides video games which might explain it.

So she says that perhaps video games don't increase violence, but make children more cruel. HAVE YOU EVER EVEN SEEN A CHILD? Children are cruel, and they always have been. Take parents and other authority figures away, and video games or no video games, they're little Satans. Yes, that includes your kid you think is a little angel too. Behind your back, they're evil incarnate. All video games do is expose their true nature, because mommy and daddy are too busy to actually parent, so they have the Xbox or PS4 be the surrogate parent.

 

[illram]

I think we all experience some rage, stress, what have you from games we love playing that frustrate us, and at the same time we also feel pleasure, contendedness, accomplishment from acheiving things in those same games. People who take those things to another level in their daily lives already had problems if you ask me.

I look at games like a mostly harmless drug. A less harmful, legal means of temporary emotional and mental transformation. It can be detrimental (how many of us have taken a "sick day" or stayed up way too late playing a video game?) But that's about as far as it goes for most of us I would think. If someone has some fundamentally altered state of morality after playing video games then there was something already foundationally "off" in that person already, and they would have had a similar change from the myriad of other forms of entertainment we ingest, e.g. books, movies, comic books, a particularly persuasive or charismatic acquaintance, whatever.

 

[Darunion]

Why does the author ignore this statement, trying to disprove it? As for gun violence increasing? Perhaps it isn't video games? Maybe the parents don't store their guns safely away? Perhaps the population is far greater than what it was 40 years ago? (214 million in 1976 vs 324 million in 2016) There are other reasons besides video games which might explain it.

So she says that perhaps video games don't increase violence, but make children more cruel. HAVE YOU EVER EVEN SEEN A CHILD? Children are cruel, and they always have been. Take parents and other authority figures away, and video games or no video games, they're little Satans. Yes, that includes your kid you think is a little angel too. Behind your back, they're evil incarnate. All video games do is expose their true nature, because mommy and daddy are too busy to actually parent, so they have the Xbox or PS4 be the surrogate parent.

I always hate when people do that kind of logic. Because event A happened after event B, event A had to be caused by B. Well the sun rose today too, that could partly be to blame either.

Im glad people like that aren't in forensics lol.

 

[Ur_Mom]

I wonder if violent video games create violent kids or if violent kids enjoy the violence in violent video games? They want that violence. They were that way before they picked up the game. Maybe that game is their release. Better in the fantasy world than in the real world.

If I'm pissed, I'll listen to some loud metal music or play a violent video game. I'm far from a violent person. I'm real aggressive (arrggg! Sorry. Did I scare you? Sorry. You ok?)...[/s] Sometimes, I get angry, though. I just never really do anything about it. Those games and music and whatnot are a good release. I'd probably be this way without the games and things, though. It's just a quick and easy thing to channel those angry feelings to something else.

I think those games are beneficial for some people. If they have a negative effect on you and you try and recreate what you saw in the game, you need help and probably shouldn't play violent video games, watch violent movies, read violent books.... It's just in your personality that you're like that.

 

[Ducman69]

They want that violence.

Everybody likes watching violence. The Romans understood this in antiquity, and we know this still today as most of our movies include violence or danger of some sort (even comedies often involve car chases with crashes or explosion or fist fights or guns... heck even Wonder Woman or GIJoe or Power Rangers), because its exciting.

 

[M76]

So let me get this straight. This author says that they felt loosing their humanity because of playing and writing about videogames? Yes there is a serious issue here, and it's not with videogames, it's with the person who can't separate fiction from reality.

 

[HeadRusch]

In the age of Liberalism-run-amok, this is the kind of treat we get to enjoy. "I READ SOMETHING AND NOW I HAVE LOST MY SOUL! OH GOD, IT MUST ALL BE BANNED! Meanwhile, we must stop all the oppression and banning, FIGHT THE POWER!" =P

 

[Ur_Mom]

In the age of Liberalism-run-amok, this is the kind of treat we get to enjoy. "I READ SOMETHING AND NOW I HAVE LOST MY SOUL! OH GOD, IT MUST ALL BE BANNED! Meanwhile, we must stop all the oppression and banning, FIGHT THE POWER!" =P

It's on all sides. Ban what you don't agree with, etc..

Conservative - ban liberal shit.
Liberal - ban conservative shit.
Libertarian - I don't give a shit.

I think a lot of things shouldn't be banned (as long as it doesn't interfere with someone else). What this does is try and tie that non-harmful action into the cause of something harmful to others. So, it could be banned because it leads to hurting others. I don't believe that, but it's what they are pushing.

 

[Ur_Mom]

Everybody likes watching violence. The Romans understood this in antiquity, and we know this still today as most of our movies include violence or danger of some sort (even comedies often involve car chases with crashes or explosion or fist fights or guns... heck even Wonder Woman or GIJoe or Power Rangers), because its exciting.

Dammit, Ducman. I need my safe space. You oppressed me. I do not like violence. I just shit in my diaper as I'm writing an article on shitty violent video games. I'm going back to Narnia.

 

[Darunion]

We need to stop applying the same "fix" to every person. Unless you want to put everyone in the same groups for all things, you can't cherry pick "well if we ban this the human race will get better" based on the flavor of the month.


we are all.....snowflakes....and should be approached as such when trying to solve 'our problems'.

 

[lcpiper]

The only thing that has been proven a fact is that video game violence can increase aggressive feelings in the player that can last up to 4 minutes after disengaging. That's it. What the PC fail to realize is that aggression does not always lead to violence. I would say that most people who play video games can actually tell the difference between fantasy and reality and they can control their emotions.

That's right, cause man, every time I watch a kick ass Kunk-Fu movie I get up, I do a few moves like I used to when I was young, a swirl .... wave .... a kick .... AOCH ! a pulled muscle, fuck this shit it's why I have guns now.

 

[lcpiper]

Well, I certainly see no conflict of interest here, as she creates fantasy books, which (along with films) are the direct competition of (and are steadily losing to) video games.

Not to mention that the whole issue with Westworld is that the robots -do- feel. During their loop, the robots are conscious and think that they are alive, and that they love the other robots, and that they suffer when something bad happens. If the robots really did not feel anything and/or did not think that they felt anything, the audience would have no issue at all with anything that happens there.

This audience already gave up, it's too boring to watch for me. I just can't connect with this robot = human bullshit.

 

[dgz]

I've been playing games my whole life. Grew up with arcades, Atari, Nintendo and SEGA consoles. Not going to lie - I've dedicated much of my time and emotions to games. And yet I don't remember identifying myself for real with "my character". A game is a game is game.

On the other hand, I realize not everyone is like that. At my last job I had an argument with a game designer about StarCraft. He repeatedly insisted unit micro management is bullshit as no general would ever issue repeated "move a little, then shoot" commands to their troops. For fuck's sake. What general? Why can't you have a little fun doing something without resorting to delusions about your current identity and your relation to the setting. It's the game PLAY that matters to me. If that's not the case with you, then I guess you'd be better off having fun with interactive novels. Nothing wrong with that.

That said, I used hit quick save before shooting pigeons in Half-Life 2. Don't wanna train my brain that it's OK to shoot innocent creatures, even in games. It's a slippery slope.

I am an aggressive person in both real life and games. Not violent, though. Harming others is not cool. I think I wouldn't even harm (Westworld) robots unless they try to harm me first. Would fuck the shit out of Maeve, though.

 

[Derangel]

Why does the author ignore this statement, trying to disprove it? As for gun violence increasing? Perhaps it isn't video games? Maybe the parents don't store their guns safely away? Perhaps the population is far greater than what it was 40 years ago? (214 million in 1976 vs 324 million in 2016) There are other reasons besides video games which might explain it.

So she says that perhaps video games don't increase violence, but make children more cruel. HAVE YOU EVER EVEN SEEN A CHILD? Children are cruel, and they always have been. Take parents and other authority figures away, and video games or no video games, they're little Satans. Yes, that includes your kid you think is a little angel too. Behind your back, they're evil incarnate. All video games do is expose their true nature, because mommy and daddy are too busy to actually parent, so they have the Xbox or PS4 be the surrogate parent.

No one really knows why school shootings happen more often now (same with the increase in mass shootings in general). Anyone telling you otherwise is lying to your face and is making up shit to support their agenda. There are a ton of theories, but nothing solid. However, as a total gun violence has massively decreased across the board, including among youths. Violent crime in general has been on a downward trend since it's height in the 80s and early 90s.

 

[gulguran]

What a wimp.

Writing an article on a topic she knows absolutely nothing about, and publishing it on a site that lacks comments so no one can refute her with fact based links to scientific study after scientific study showing that video games have no negative impact on the psyche of healthy individuals.

Post fact society indeed.

It's equally bad when people like her and Trump supporters do it. Turns out they have more in common than one might think.

What the fuck man, why bring Trump supporters into it. Why be a fucking cunt like that? Honestly, are you one of those? I left reddit and other sites to frequent places like this that can keep from bringing politics into everything. Lumping Trump supporters into this is bullshit.

 

[Ducman69]

I've been playing games my whole life. Grew up with arcades, Atari, Nintendo and SEGA consoles. Not going to lie - I've dedicated much of my time and emotions to games. And yet I don't remember identifying myself for real with "my character". A game is a game is game.

Devil's advocate, but I made a mess by breaking the Sims CD I purchased (can't remember which version) back in the day, after I noticed that I was structuring my life vaguely thinking of myself in the third person the way I did for my Sim. Nothing sinister, but I started to perceive my needs like my Sims in a structured way to fulfill them. Definitely a "what is wrong with my brain" moment, and have never played a Sims game since. xD

Few seem to argue that watching Silence of the Lambs has turned a lot of people into cannibals though.

 

[lcpiper]

No one really knows why school shootings happen more often now (same with the increase in mass shootings in general). Anyone telling you otherwise is lying to your face and is making up shit to support their agenda. There are a ton of theories, but nothing solid. However, as a total gun violence has massively decreased across the board, including among youths. Violent crime in general has been on a downward trend since it's height in the 80s and early 90s.

Wait, can't someone have the correct answer even if it's not "proven" correct?

I mean, in fifty years we finally fully understand exactly why there were more mass shootings during this era and that this one poor smuck named Gary Poliver was correct, that it was because Jiffy Peanut Butter changed their formula in the late 1990s, and it's been driving people crazy ever since. But if Gary Poliver couldn't prove it at the time, he was lying about it and just making it up?

Someone has it figured out even if we can't agree on it.

 

[lcpiper]

..... I was structuring my life vaguely thinking of myself in the third person the way I did for my Sim. Nothing sinister, but I started to perceive my needs like my Sims in a structured way to fulfill them.....

There's another way ?

 

[Derangel]

Wait, can't someone have the correct answer even if it's not "proven" correct?

I mean, in fifty years we finally fully understand exactly why there were more mass shootings during this era and that this one poor smuck named Gary Poliver was correct, that it was because Jiffy Peanut Butter changed their formula in the late 1990s, and it's been driving people crazy ever since. But if Gary Poliver couldn't prove it at the time, he was lying about it and just making it up?

Someone has it figured out even if we can't agree on it.

I mean it's possible that there is a correct answer out there, but proof is required to verify it and make it an actual fact. Given how complex the situation is it's most likely not a simple answer though. Thinking you know the answer is not the same as proving you have the answer and without proof it's little more than your own opinion. Trying to pass that opinion off as fact means the person is being dishonest.

 

[lcpiper]

I mean it's possible that there is a correct answer out there, but proof is required to verify it and make it an actual fact. Given how complex the situation is it's most likely not a simple answer though. Thinking you know the answer is not the same as proving you have the answer and without proof it's little more than your own opinion. Trying to pass that opinion off as fact means the person is being dishonest.

But it does provide me an opportunity to nit pick

Agreed, I acquiesce