How PC Gamers Can Be Heard

PrincessFrosty said:
So when you have the 3 choices of:

1) Not buying the game and missing out on any potential good points
2) Buying the game and betraying your ideals
3) Downloading a pirate copy

3 actually starts to look pretty good to most gamers, you get the best of both worlds, it's the equivelent of voting with your wallet but getting to play the game anyway. I'm afraid to say it but we CAN have our cake and eat it.
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You forgot my favorite:

4) Let some Schlep run and buy it for top dollar - get disappointed - sell it second hand on the forums............and me buy it for half the price or less AFTER the bug fixes are out.

Now I got something closer to my moneys-worth.;)
 
Vote with your money, I may own a PS3 but I am not a big fan of FPS and RPG on console systems, I prefer them on PC because of KB/Mouse thus I purchased Dragon Age for the pc.
 
Anymore the folks at Ars Technica just comes across as industry shills to me. Their suggestion that we tell the company what we will pay for just rubs me the wrong way. If the game company is in the business of making games, then THEY need to listen to what their customers are telling them. (Regardless of whether they like what they hear.) As for boycotts, if you don't have to spine to stick to one, then don't join one in the first place... it just makes the rest of us look bad. Also, it's hard for many to be noticed when they started boycotting shovelware a long time ago.
 
Whoops... forgot to address the whole "piracy" thing:

Whatever the position on piracy... if your company's customers (the ones who would ACTUALLY buy) are telling you they'll risk substantial financial penalties, prison time, and months/years of legal wrangling if they get caught... then, as a company, you have not done a good job developing/delivering a product with VALUE for the customer. The lesson here is: stop being so d*** greedy and focus on making a product that customers will enjoy. After all, it is ENTERTAINMENT software.
 
TheCAD said:
As long as valve continues support...I couldn't give a shit what the rest of these clowns do.

They've made every good PC game I like. HL2, CS, Team Fortress, Portal....
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This.
I'd add "Steam" as well...as long as Valve+Steam are around, PC gaming is not going away. The majority of the games I own are Valve titles. I refuse to buy MW2 until they undo what shouldn't have been done in the first place. Until then, IW can sod off.
 
The BIG problem I have with steam is the lack of re-sale. For games I'm not worried about, or killer deals, I have no problem with having it Steam tied.

But a game like MW2, where I'm iffy, I'm stuck. I can't buy and get rid of it at a later time if I don't like it, regardless of whether I buy Steam or Retail.

That's Steams major pitfall, and why I don't buy 50/60 dollar new releases through it.
 
pigwalk said:
The BIG problem I have with steam is the lack of re-sale. For games I'm not worried about, or killer deals, I have no problem with having it Steam tied.

But a game like MW2, where I'm iffy, I'm stuck. I can't buy and get rid of it at a later time if I don't like it, regardless of whether I buy Steam or Retail.

That's Steams major pitfall, and why I don't buy 50/60 dollar new releases through it.
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From what I can tell, this is actually a big reason for piracy. People are unwilling to invest in something they aren't sure they'll like if they can't be guaranteed to get that investment back if they don't like it. But then again, you run into the problem, what if someone purchased a game, played through all the content, and then returned it? The gamer effectively gets the benefit of buying the game (multiplayer and replay aside) and the developer gets nothing.

I think a good solution to all of this is to implement some sort of refund policy in Steam (or Steam like software such as Impulse) that allows gamers to return a game inside of, say, 30 days (or something like that) for a full refund, and for a gradually diminishing refund as time passes beyond that.
 
Returning a game in 30 days doesn't work for single-player titles that can be finished sometimes within a day or two. Some people play a game once, then ditch it and play something else new. A full refund would mean "free". That's not a very smart way to stay in business. That's why retail software can only be exchanged for an identical item once opened. It's too easy to install and just ditch it for a refund, or copy disk, return and get free product. My biggest complaint about online activation and networks like Steam is... if Valve goes belly-up, and I need to reinstall, how exactly do I use what I legitimately paid for? All my old games I can replay as much as I want. Unless someone else somehow maintains the network, my "investment" just became a paper weight in a pretty orange box.

The only reason I can see for people to really go pirate on something is if it's so expensive that it's out of reach, or they get snubbed by support. I've known people with legit software have their product keys revoked because someone out there had a keygen and the key got blacklisted. Call support, they say you're a pirate and won't deal with you... so WTF can you do? I don't condone piracy, though I can understand how frustration combined with need can influence one's decision making. Otherwise, it's just laziness and unwillingness to spend, or people selling bogus copies. Ever hear of try before you buy? Usually there's a demo out there. If it sucks, don't buy it. If you like the demo, go buy it. Otherwise, there is such a thing as a bargain bin. I usually can't afford to shell out $50-60 for a video game, so I wait until the price gets down into the $20-$30 range, $10-$20 if I'm lucky. I'm a cheap bastard, but at least my games are legit. Yeah, I don't get to play stuff when it's as hot and new, but I'm usually guaranteed that my hardware will be up to spec when I do, and if the game sucks I won't be out an extra $30. Personally I think the whole "lost sales" rants by software companies are too much corporate hot air. It's not a lost money if you didn't sell it in the first place, and most hardcore pirates aren't going to buy it anyway, so stop counting the pirates as potential sales and deal with reality. Make your legit customer base love you by making awesome products and providing top-notch support, and the problem will sort itself out.
 
Phoenix333 said:
Returning a game in 30 days doesn't work for single-player titles that can be finished sometimes within a day or two.
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Why does everyone automatically assume every single person will take advantage of such a service and ruin it? A theater near me picks one new release movie every couple of weeks and makes it the "Guaranteed to like it" movie of the weekend. Don't like it? Say so after you're done watching it(yes, the whole thing), and you get your money back. They're still doing it, and still making money, so giving your customers some sense of value obviously isn't a death-knell.

Honestly, thinking that offering the ability to return games makes it "too easy" to pirate games is silly. If you're pirating a title, you're almost definitely using a scene crack. Where did you get the scene crack? I don't know, but you can get the full scene release of whatever title you're cracking there as well, so why the hell should you go through the trouble of buying the game, copying it, and then returning it? Sure, this might have been an issue back in the days before disk-checks, but it's a non-issue when you can't use a backup without a crack.
 
Spewn: Just because the technology changes doesn't mean retailer policies will. Not every game has copy protection or online activation, and not all copy protection is equal. I'm not a cracker or hacker, so I know absolutely nothing of what a scene crack is. I do know that these policies have been in place for years and are unlikely to change. Go to any retailer or read any purchase agreement online for software and you'll find "exchange for identical item only". Besides that, most games have a demo anyway, so it's not like you can't try the game for free already. :rolleyes:

Tekara: I'm not entirely certain about how it applies to movies, if you're referring to DVD releases, but I think you can't refund those either. I tend to not return things unless they're broken or defective. If you mean viewing it at the theater, that's a completely different topic.
 
Phoenix333 said:
Besides that, most games have a demo anyway, so it's not like you can't try the game for free already. :rolleyes:
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One thing I find to be inadequate about demos (besides their length, which is often something like 5-10 minutes, not nearly enough time to get a feel for a 5+ hour game) is that they often tend to come out in advance of the game and include some sort of disclaimer like, "Demo not representative of final product." Well, what the hell is the point in releasing the demo, then? If it doesn't represent the final product, how am I supposed to use it to make a purchasing decision? :rolleyes:

I really just feel like companies need to listen to their fan base more often, and the whole thing would be a non-issue. But a lot of the time it feels like companies screw something up, and then get up their own ass about refusing to fix the problem to the satisfaction of their customers. It really is an industry where customer support is severely lacking.
 
I haven't had the misfortune of running across a demo that wasn't like the actual game so far, but I can see where that could be a problem. In regards to support... I agree with you there.
 
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