How has Zen3 managed to maintain it's price after over a year?

Jonnycat99

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
424
(note: prices are sale prices from MC):

Current pricing for a 12-core R9 5900x is ~$500, while an 8-core R7 5800x is ~$350.
Current pricing for a 16-core 12900K is ~$549, while a 12-core 12700k is ~$350.

Zen 3 is over a year old at this point, while ADL is new, and arguably a faster series. How in the heck has Zen3 managed to not come down in price compared to ADL?

Would it be better to ask why ADL chips are so cheap? (I'm guessing DDR5 availability will be part of the answer here, but there are also DDR4 boards, so...)

Background: currently rocking a Zen2 R5 3600x and considering an upgrade, but it doesn't seem to make much sense to pay the same for a Z3 chip as I could for an ADL with faster speed.
 

pendragon1

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
42,730
(note: prices are sale prices from MC):

Current pricing for a 12-core R9 5900x is ~$500, while an 8-core R7 5800x is ~$350.
Current pricing for a 16-core 12900K is ~$549, while a 12-core 12700k is ~$350.

Zen 3 is over a year old at this point, while ADL is new, and arguably a faster series. How in the heck has Zen3 managed to not come down in price compared to ADL?

Would it be better to ask why ADL chips are so cheap? (I'm guessing DDR5 availability will be part of the answer here, but there are also DDR4 boards, so...)

Background: currently rocking a Zen2 R5 3600x and considering an upgrade, but it doesn't seem to make much sense to pay the same for a Z3 chip as I could for an ADL with faster speed.
mc has them on sale, thats all. they are still $630 on amazon and $620 on newegg. and mc is hoping for a mono mobo sale bundle too.
 
Last edited:

LukeTbk

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
2,932
Would it be better to ask why ADL chips are so cheap?
Maybe that for a new platform, looking at cpu price is not that informative in that regard, Motherboard+CPU price together can be what end up drive decision.

And in that regard the AMD options could be still much cheaper and not just for people already owning an AM4 motherboard.

For you for an example, going to a 5900x would be a huge amount cheaper than the transition to the 12900K even if it could look like like an $50+tax difference
 
Last edited:

Dreamerbydesign

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
5,749
You can’t just compare core count. Especially when Intel is using efficiency cores. I own a 12700k but let’s be honest, it’s basically a 8 core cpu when compared to AMD’s current line up.

AMD still offers more raw performance cores to throw at workloads. Also ADL performs best with Windows 11.

I think once you dig deeper into what ADL offers and how it works, you can see why many people are hesitant to try something so new, that also really requires Windows 11 for the best experience.

AMD is solid, runs great on W10 and older hardware, and runs on ddr4. I think that sums up why Intel would have dropped prices.
 
Last edited:

Jonnycat99

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
424
Thanks guys, core count does make sense WRT overall market demand. In my case I am just looking at single threaded performance.
 

pitingres

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 25, 2018
Messages
309
Basically, as long as AMD can sell parts at the current price, they aren't going to be motivated to cut prices. If I had to guess, I'd bet that a significant percentage, maybe as much as 1/4 or more, of individual CPU sales of Zen 3 are selling upgrades into existing motherboards. That $500 5900X looks pretty good if the comparison is a 12700K PLUS a new motherboard. Another increment of sales will be into the 12-and-up core market where 12th gen arguably has a way to go.

You can drop a Zen 3 CPU into your existing motherboard. Your 12th gen / ADL upgrade cost needs to include the (expensive!) motherboard, and that's assuming you'll stick with DDR4. If you want to get into the DDR5 game, you are looking at either waiting or being scalped.
 

Evil Scooter

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 22, 2000
Messages
5,843
You can’t just compare core count. Especially when Intel is using efficiency cores. I own a 12700k but let’s be honest, it’s basically a 8 core cpu when compared to AMD’s current line up.

AMD still offers more raw performance cores to throw at workloads. Also ADL performs best with Windows 11.

I think once you dig deeper into what ADL offers and how it works, you can see why many people are hesitant to try something so new, that also really requires Windows 11 for the best experience.

AMD is solid, runs great on W10 and older hardware, and runs on ddr4. I think that sums up why Intel would have dropped prices.
^^^ This. I opted for a used 5900X instead of ADL to replace my 9900k. My desire to not install WIN 11 was a big part of that decision. If Zen 4 blows the doors off Zen 3... it won't be the first time I've upgraded in a year...lol.
 

Jonnycat99

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
424
Thanks guys, you have given me some angles to do some reading and I see things more clearly now. Still wish the prices were lower for a 1+year lineup but that's another topic.
 

Rvenger

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 12, 2012
Messages
2,912
The only reason I went with ADL was because I received a DDR5 kit eval unit for testing. If I didn't get that kit, I would be still on my 5950x.
 

drutman

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
371
Another thing to consider is volume sales and MC seems to have a discount through Intel for their CPUs, I paid 279 for a 5820K which was a steal in 2015.
 

Dreamerbydesign

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
5,749
Another thing to consider is volume sales and MC seems to have a discount through Intel for their CPUs, I paid 279 for a 5820K which was a steal in 2015.
Actually Microcenter has a relatively low volume in comparison to some major companies that sell Intel CPU’s. Microcenter is a loss leader that lures you in to the store with a low priced item, and counts on you buying other things with a higher mark up when you’re in the store. It’s been doing this at least the 20+ years I have shopped there. This is why the best deals are always in store only, not available for shipping.
 

drutman

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
371
Actually Microcenter has a relatively low volume in comparison to some major companies that sell Intel CPU’s. Microcenter is a loss leader that lures you in to the store with a low priced item, and counts on you buying other things with a higher mark up when you’re in the store. It’s been doing this at least the 20+ years I have shopped there. This is why the best deals are always in store only, not available for shipping.
Thought so were lucky they are still fiscally solvent. Our MC in Houston is excellent.
 

Dreamerbydesign

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
5,749
Thought so were lucky they are still fiscally solvent. Our MC in Houston is excellent.
I’d have to imagine they have a great internal business model. They have survived longer than any small chain especially in the niche electronics market. Also one of my favorite stores.
 

Jonnycat99

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
424
The nice thing about MC sales is that BB honors them, which means I don't have to drive 40 minutes to get to MC.
 

Dreamerbydesign

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
5,749
The nice thing about MC sales is that BB honors them, which means I don't have to drive 40 minutes to get to MC.
If the mc is close. BB doesn’t price match far away Microcenters, and also does not by policy price match “online” sale prices from Microcenter. There are exceptions according to some people. But that’s BB’s policy. Microcenter will even price match Amazon. They don’t have to price match BB often tho I imagine.
 

Jonnycat99

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
424
If the mc is close. BB doesn’t price match far away Microcenters, and also does not by policy price match “online” sale prices from Microcenter. There are exceptions according to some people. But that’s BB’s policy. Microcenter will even price match Amazon. They don’t have to price match BB often tho I imagine.

Interesting, in the terms they give on their webpage, they do describe the B&M as "...a local retail competitor's store", but they fail to define the criteria that defines "local". Crafty buggers.
 

Dreamerbydesign

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
5,749
Interesting, in the terms they give on their webpage, they do describe the B&M as "...a local retail competitor's store", but they fail to define the criteria that defines "local". Crafty buggers.
a quick search shows they use 25 miles distance for price matching. And they stick to it. Also they are very picky about what they price match. Everything has to be identical between products, and they do not honor special sale items like "online price only" etc.
 

Jonnycat99

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
424
Thanks, that is good to know. Fortunately I must have caught them in a good mood because they honored the MC price with me at 40 miles from the nearest MC. Even got free shipping, too!
 

philb2

Gawd
Joined
May 26, 2021
Messages
935
The nice thing about MC sales is that BB honors them, which means I don't have to drive 40 minutes to get to MC.
Do you mean that your local BB will price-match a MC price? Wow, I live like 20 minutes away from BB, but about 6-7 hours from MC.
 

robijito123

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 2, 2021
Messages
217
AMD is able to maintain price because they have not watered down their product stack with lower than 5600x cpus and they have chips that can sit now in practically any chipset since the release of AM4. Also if you remember at the beginning of 5xxx release there were huge markups and shortages so there was normalization of price as supply got out and even though Intel 12th gen is baller the cost of entry still leaves the 5600x in a decent price value bracket. I think it sucks as I would really like the verticle cache cpus to release to upgrade from a 3600x, but at that point maybe Intel has something better or AM5 is rocking or close to release. FYI not comparing APU products like the 5600g.
 

Jonnycat99

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
424
Also if you remember at the beginning of 5xxx release there were huge markups and shortages...

Aye, I do remember a year and change ago when I was watching the discord looking for drops that the Zen3 processors had drops of their own. There was a short amount of time when Walmart listed something called "Merchandise", with no other description, but it had a picture of a 5800x and a price of (IIRC) $199. Some of the guys on the discord took a chance before it was pulled, and a week later they all reported back that they did indeed end up with 5800s. This bounced around for a few days with different prices for different chips before they fixed it.

I would have (should have) grabbed one then but I was more focused on the gpu and still enjoying my 3600.
 

learners permit

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 15, 2005
Messages
1,169
There was a 5600x in the FS/trade for $265 if price prohibitive and they pop in there fairly regularly.
 

Kdawg

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 12, 2017
Messages
1,116
i noticed the prices too.
Intel provides more performance for less money. particularly the 5600x vs 12600k

for a new system, amd doesn't make sense.
 

MrGuvernment

Fully [H]
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
20,849
i noticed the prices too.
Intel provides more performance for less money. particularly the 5600x vs 12600k

for a new system, amd doesn't make sense.
More performance in what manner? And how much more power does it use? to say intel offer more performance is not 100% accurate nor true.
 

illli

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 26, 2005
Messages
1,450
I think the 5800x was $300 at microcenter a month-ish or so back. Too bad there isn't one close to where I live
 

SmokeRngs

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2008
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
17,760
It's likely AMD is selling every single CPU they make as fast as they make them. There is no reason to drop prices if that's the case and I haven't seen anything indicating that AMD is having any trouble at all selling CPUs. Thus, a great mystery has likely been solved.
 

vegeta535

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
9,621
I think the 5800x was $300 at microcenter a month-ish or so back. Too bad there isn't one close to where I live
As much as I love MC it is does not belong in any deal discussion. People here that have a MC know what they got. You just rubbing salt in the wound of people that don't have one. Which is the majority of the country.
 

Jonnycat99

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
424
There is no reason to drop prices if that's the case and I haven't seen anything indicating that AMD is having any trouble at all selling CPUs.

That very well might be the case. In a related story, now several other retailers in addition to MC now also have the 5800x on sale. Being as since the 5800x has always been the most available of the Zen3 lineup, it would make sense for it to be the first one on sale of course, but I can't help but wonder if they are making room for something else...
 

LukeTbk

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
2,932
i noticed the prices too.
Intel provides more performance for less money. particularly the 5600x vs 12600k

for a new system, amd doesn't make sense.

Does that include the motherboard in the less money calculation ? I am a bit out of touch in the Intel line up, but the total price didnot seem lower when included.
 

vegeta535

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
9,621
Does that include the motherboard in the less money calculation ? I am a bit out of touch in the Intel line up, but the total price didnot seem lower when included.
Price is comparable if you get a DDR4 board.
 

TheSlySyl

2[H]4U
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
2,272
Hell, Zen 2 has actually increased in price. The 3900X is more expensive now than it was when I bought it 1.5ish years ago.
 

BrotherMichigan

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
376
(note: prices are sale prices from MC):

Current pricing for a 12-core R9 5900x is ~$500, while an 8-core R7 5800x is ~$350.
Current pricing for a 16-core 12900K is ~$549, while a 12-core 12700k is ~$350.

Zen 3 is over a year old at this point, while ADL is new, and arguably a faster series. How in the heck has Zen3 managed to not come down in price compared to ADL?

Would it be better to ask why ADL chips are so cheap? (I'm guessing DDR5 availability will be part of the answer here, but there are also DDR4 boards, so...)

Background: currently rocking a Zen2 R5 3600x and considering an upgrade, but it doesn't seem to make much sense to pay the same for a Z3 chip as I could for an ADL with faster speed.

It's because AMD is supply constrained. They don't have to lower prices on their desktop parts because they're going to sell every single piece of silicon they produce. Even if demand falls off in the face of ADL (which does appear to be happening, just very slowly), they can just repurpose those CCDs for use in more enterprise parts.
 

Iratus

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 16, 2003
Messages
1,572
1642471525796.png


As others have said, selling pretty much everything they can make so no point in discounts. Can expect 7000 series to be another price jump because of that.
 

Kdawg

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 12, 2017
Messages
1,116
i got a z690 mobo for $160 after rebates (and i already cashed the rebate. shit on rebates if you want)
got the 12600k for $250 from bestbuy pricematch

is that not cheaper price/performance than AMD?
 

philb2

Gawd
Joined
May 26, 2021
Messages
935
View attachment 433461

As others have said, selling pretty much everything they can make so no point in discounts. Can expect 7000 series to be another price jump because of that.
I'm happy that AMD revenue is growing. Good for us as consumers. They will need lots and lots of R&D to compete with Intel on CPUs and NVidia on GPUs. All that revenue growth makes it harder that some other company can afford to acquire AMD.
 
Top