How does a UPS with such low wattage work?

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ShoeLace

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During the summer my power goes out a lot. It's usually out for only a second or 2 but it's really annoying to lose any work / internet and it happens enough where it's an actual problem.

I don't really want to drop $400+ on a big UPS but I've seen models like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842101311

It's only rated 450w but people are reporting that it's working for 2 monitors and a modern C2D, even with 9800 GTX cards in SLI mode.

How is it possible that it's outputting enough watts? My power supply is 650w and I'm sure my monitors are 50-100w each (totally guessing here), wouldn't that add up to 750-800w minimum not counting my router and cable modem?

Would that model work for me if I only need occasional 1-10 second coverage? EDIT: I should add that it's very important the UPS works when my system is under high load, not just idling.

The only thing I can think of is it can output as many watts as the device needs but it cuts into the reported time. So if it needs to draw 900w but it's rated at 450w for 2.5 minutes under full load then at 900w at full load it would last 1.25 minutes? That theory sounded good in my head until someone on newegg reported that it didn't work for his newer generator video card in SLI mode, it wouldn't power up the system.
 
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Well if your computer is idle it most likely isn't using the full wattage of your PSU. So a 600w PSU idle at maybe 250w-300w on a 450w UPS would last about 4-5 minutes. At full load a 600W PSU would drain a 450w UPS in about 20 seconds. Throw in monitor and shave about 5-6 seconds off.

Funny story, my old beastly rig had a 1000W Corsair PSU that would last an additional 3-4 seconds after losing power, so if I only had a brief power outage my PC wouldn't turn off.

Also I have that same UPS you linked to, it's pretty epic. I have 2 servers and a security DVR hooked up to it with no issues and lasts almost 20-30 minutes on backup.

Server 1 - 400W PSU (no GPU, i7 2600K CPU on full load)
Server 2 - 150W (Mostly idle)
Security DVR - 25W? (1 HDD not sure wattage)
 
Although it is recommended to purchase a UPS that can handle maximum draw, as long as it is above actual draw then it is fine. To calculate watts, multiple volts times amps; The monitors will have this information listed on a sticker, or if it only lists amps then assume 120v. For the power supply, you'll need a watt meter to determine actual current draw from the wall (make sure to test during load). Add all the wattage of all the items going onto the battery, and as long as the battery can support more than the sum it will work, but the smaller the delta the lower the runtime.
 
Here's what I'm looking to run:

Dell 2007FP
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/monitors/2007FP/en/ug/about.htm#Specifiications

The specs say 55-75w for normal usage. I'm thinking for me it would be 55w because I do not have audio/USB hooked up to the monitor.

AGM CW-19
http://www.agneovo.com/agm/content/cw-19.htm

The specs don't say the wattage but on the back of the monitor it has 12v and 5a written somewhere (but the Dell monitor has 2a).

If watts = volts * amps then maybe this monitor is using 60w? I don't know what symbol is used in between the 12 and 5 though. It looks like an equal sign but it has 3 dashes for the lower line instead of a solid line.

SB5120 Cable modem
9 watts in normal mode.

NETGEAR WGR614
Apparently it has a 12v 1 amp power supply so it uses a maximum of 12 watts.

Ignoring the computer that gives us a total of 136w.

The computer has a 650w PS. It has a 9800 GTX, 1 HD, 1 USB microphone and everything else is pretty standard (USB keyboard/mouse, onboard sound/NIC) and is an e6420 C2D with 2GB of ram.

Using quick Google figures (not for my exact models, just general info):

HD: 10w
9800 GTX+: 280w under high load
e6420: 65w
RAM: 16w
Motherboard:: 45w
USB Devices:: Maybe 10w for everything?

That gives us a grand total of 562w under load as a reasonable estimate, that figure includes the 136w from the other devices. So you're telling me that 450w model WILL definitely give me at least 10 seconds of up time?
 
What's even more amazing is that a 1500va UPS only puts out about 900watts or so. This was a problem for my Skulltrail / dual 4870X2 (and later 3xGTX 280 OC rig) which used up to 1150watts under load. My UPS would alarm and shut off due to being unable to output that kind of wattage.

So this type of setup can make some configurations problematic if they are to be placed on a UPS. Something to think about when building super-high end machines.
 
My recommendation is to get a 1000VA or greater UPS. And no you do not have to pay $400 for these if you get one that was used. Look for ones that are refirbished with new batteries. These easily can be had for under $200. I recommend APC SmartUPS (server grade) models but there are others that are good as well. Other than eBay, http://www.refurbups.com is a good place to look.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16842101311
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I consider this good enough for a router, printer, lcd display but not so good for a PC that has a GPU.

Edit:

This is a good option:
http://www.refurbups.com/Liebert-GXT2-1000RT120-GXT2-1000VA-120V
 
Here's more info too, apparently the GTX 570 uses 330w, so it's +50w over the 9800 GTX+. A 2500k is supposedly 125w under load too for an additional +60w. I'll assume a new motherboard, ram, HD, etc. will have similar output as mine?

This is relevant to me because I'm curious if this UPS will still be good if the total wattage was 672w if I were to upgrade my system in the future.
 
I love APC for their server and recent AV offerings, but in the desktop consumer space, I haven't been a fan of theirs lately.

Refurbished server units with fresh batteries are awesome deals, but keep in mind that they are often rackmount in their form factor and designed with audible noise as a non-issue. In other words, plan for some earmuffs when sitting next to many of those units.

For the consumer space, I have been a big fan of Cyberpower lately.

http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP...TF8&qid=1340293302&sr=8-3&keywords=cyberpower

Vendors do have nice deals on these units every so often, but even at their full retail price (still less than MSRP) they are great buys.

(I was able to pick up two of their 1500VA units at $150 each a while back, but I have not seen that deal since then.)
 
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drescherjm said:
My recommendation is to get a 1000VA or greater UPS. And no you do not have to pay $400 for these if you get one that was used. Look for ones that are refirbished with new batteries. These easily can be had for under $200. I recommend APC SmartUPS (server grade) models but there are others that are good as well. Other than eBay, http://www.refurbups.com is a good place to look.




I consider this good enough for a router, printer, lcd display but not so good for a PC that has a GPU.

Edit:

This is a good option:
http://www.refurbups.com/Liebert-GXT2-1000RT120-GXT2-1000VA-120V
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What's the difference between that Liebert GXT2 vs. the 450w one linked earlier other than it supporting a higher watt output. If the 450w can do 700w+ for a short amount of time and my only goal is to not lose power during a few second outage do I really need the Liebert GXT2?
 
ShoeLace said:
Here's more info too, apparently the GTX 570 uses 330w, so it's +50w over the 9800 GTX+. A 2500k is supposedly 125w under load too for an additional +60w. I'll assume a new motherboard, ram, HD, etc. will have similar output as mine?

This is relevant to me because I'm curious if this UPS will still be good if the total wattage was 672w if I were to upgrade my system in the future.
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These TDP values are maximum numbers. They don't ordinarily pull that much power. The GTX 570 probably pulls no more than 280-290watts. The CPU only pulls 90watts at stock speeds and up to 125watts or so overclocked. The rest of the system, depending on how much crap you have in it probably only pulls 100watts total at most. But when calculating power usage, you have to factor in your monitor as it's draw will be part of the UPS' total power output.
 
Dan_D said:
These TDP values are maximum numbers. They don't ordinarily pull that much power. The GTX 570 probably pulls no more than 280-290watts. The CPU only pulls 90watts at stock speeds and up to 125watts or so overclocked. The rest of the system, depending on how much crap you have in it probably only pulls 100watts total at most. But when calculating power usage, you have to factor in your monitor as it's draw will be part of the UPS' total power output.
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You missed my previous post, I calculated everything else too. http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1038857861&postcount=4
 
ShoeLace said:
You missed my previous post, I calculated everything else too. http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1038857861&postcount=4
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I'd also recommend against plugging non-essential items into the UPS. On mine I have the PC itself, and the primary monitor. Secondary monitors and audio aren't connected. Network is maintained by a UPS in the utility room which handles all the U-Verse equipment and the switch needed for the entire house. (Pre-wired with Cat6.)
 
Dan_D said:
I'd also recommend against plugging non-essential items into the UPS. On mine I have the PC itself, and the primary monitor. Secondary monitors and audio aren't connected. Network is maintained by a UPS in the utility room which handles all the U-Verse equipment and the switch needed for the entire house. (Pre-wired with Cat6.)
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Yep, the only thing that wouldn't be necessary is my second monitor so that shaves off 60w potentially. Still though I'm not sure if the 450w model will handle 600w or so of draw for a shorter amount of time than the reported time.

Newegg reviews seem to say maybe, but power consumption and UPSs are an area that I know very little about.
 
ShoeLace said:
Yep, the only thing that wouldn't be necessary is my second monitor so that shaves off 60w potentially. Still though I'm not sure if the 450w model will handle 600w or so of draw for a shorter amount of time than the reported time.

Newegg reviews seem to say maybe, but power consumption and UPSs are an area that I know very little about.
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If you exceed the maximum power output or draw the UPS is capable of, it will shut down on you nearly instantly. I speak from experience as I stated above. A 1500va typically puts out no more than 900watts. I was drawing 1150. It could only do that for about 10-15 seconds and then shut down. It simply couldn't output that much power. When I removed one of the graphics cards, my power draw hit about 980 watts which was only 30 over what my UPS could handle. It still shut off in 10 seconds or so. At 500 watts a 1500VA UPS will last a few minutes. At 900watts of power consumption it will last about half as long. But still several minutes. At 1150 watts, it isn't just a matter of the battery being depleted faster, but the UPS actually shutting itself off to protect it and the system from damage.
 
ShoeLace said:
What's the difference between that Liebert GXT2 vs. the 450w one linked earlier other than it supporting a higher watt output.
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At minimum 8 times the battery capacity along with much better components. Also pure sine wave (however I have learned by usage at work that is not necessary).

If the 450w can do 700w+ for a short amount of time and my only goal is to not lose power during a few second outage do I really need the Liebert GXT2?
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Most likely the 450W model will instantly shut off under this load. Also the battery will die much sooner on these models or at least I have seen this happen at work with similar units. I now use these (1 battery UPSs) only for powering monitors instead of 100W + computers.
 
The Liebert is also over $600 unless you buy it refurbished and then it seems like a gamble to me.

Dan,
When you said it lasted 10 seconds or so, did it not turn off the computer when the power came back on within those 10 seconds -- so it did work for those 10 seconds and when the real power kicked in it was like nothing happened?
 
I would really only rely on an affordable UPS for the PC at idle, full load you're going to need some enterprise class hardware to last more than 10-15 seconds. Most likely you'll end up deep-cycle discharging the battery if it doesn't shut off instantly with the protection circuits and you'll have to replace the battery anyways (unless you happen to have the proper SLAB servicing equipment).

My work is getting rid of a 5000va APC UPS rated for 4000w but it needs 230v service to work. Too bad or I would have tried to snag it up. It used to be the backup for the computer system in our aircraft generator test stand.
 
But that's all I need. All I need is 10 seconds or so of it working under full load. The power outages in my area are 1-2 second flickers 99% of the time.

I just need something that will keep my computer on for about 10 seconds (to be a little safe) and hopefully let me know if the power came back on so I can properly save my work if not.
 
The Liebert is also over $600 unless you buy it refurbished and then it seems like a gamble to me.
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Then get a new CyberPower 1000VA to 1500VA model for about the same price. This will have less runtime but have a longer warranty.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102048

I just need something that will keep my computer on for about 10 seconds (to be a little safe) and hopefully let me know if the power came back on so I can properly save my work if not.
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With that 450W unit you will most likely get instant off. Not even 10 seconds.
 
a GXT2 or SmartUPS will give you much extended battery (with some models giving the option to extend it even further with additional battery packs) and they will always be filtering the power (that's called an "online" UPS). You will always get the highest quality of power, but the fans always run and running the power through the UPS is less efficient than a switched model. There will be no switching delay when the power goes out because there is no switching going on.

I do recommend an online UPS if you can put it somewhere where fan noise won't bother you. Mine's downstairs; it runs my network equipment and I ran a wire from it to my bedroom for my PC+monitor, but as Dan_D mentions, I also keep my audio and other stuff off of the UPS so I can get the best battery life possible...

Stop looking on Newegg... www.refurbups.com. The minimum UPS you should be using (without SLI/CF) is this: http://www.refurbups.com/APC-IBM750-Smart-UPS-IBM-750
 
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The CyberPower 1500VA is $170 at Newegg which is close to double the price of the 450w APC.

Will this 1500VA/900w version not have to worry about replacing the battery after discharges because it can properly handle the load? I don't really understand what LigTasm meant by that. It sounds like the battery gets shot from a single power outage but that seems unreasonable.
 
Will this 1500VA/900w version not have to worry about replacing the battery after discharges because it can properly handle the load?
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You will have better battery life and better runtime (assuming the 450W even worked) since the unit is made to take the load. Also it has 2 times the battery capacity if the 450W unit. Although you will still have to replace the batteries every 3 to 5 years with this unit and probably every 2 years with the 450W unit.
 
ShoeLace said:
The Liebert is also over $600 unless you buy it refurbished and then it seems like a gamble to me.

Dan,
When you said it lasted 10 seconds or so, did it not turn off the computer when the power came back on within those 10 seconds -- so it did work for those 10 seconds and when the real power kicked in it was like nothing happened?
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You misunderstand. There was no power outage at all. I exceeded the maximum power output of the UPS itself. When you exceed the total maximum power output of a UPS, on battery or not, it will shut down on you. Period, end of story. It does so to protect itself. It's no different than tripping a circuit breaker except that it appears to be more controlled. I had the same issue with one of those APC units that outputs about 450watts with my HTPC. The thing would alarm if the machine did anything beyond just sit there and it would shut off everything and just alarm.

Forget about battery time. If you exceed the output of what the UPS can give you, it won't work. There is a total output number somewhere on the UPS. For a 1500va unit that's about 900-950 watts depending on the brand / model. In fact VA numbers are misleading because they can vary wildly in terms of actual power output. The total power output of 900 watts is actually less than what can be drawn from a house hold electrical outlet. Even when the input power is greater than what the UPS can output, it will still shut down if you try and draw more than the unit was designed to output. This is basically a power surge like condition as far as the UPS is concerned and it will shut down. This BTW usually includes the surge side as well. Not just battery power.

Most computers aren't going to exceed 450 or 500watts under load. So these weaker UPS units are fine. But your UPS needs to be sized according to your computer equipment's actual power draw. Forget TDP, forget VA ratings, etc. You need to measure your computer's draw at the wall under full (and ideally under unrealistic loads) and size your UPS according to those numbers. Give yourself a range as well. You want some room for fluctuations to occur. For example. My machine currently draws about 750 watts of power or so at the wall. Add in 90watts for my monitor. My UPS outputs 950 watts max. So I'm falling well under that so I'm good to go. If I add another Radeon HD 7970 then I'll most certainly need a bigger UPS. At the very least I may need to put my primary monitor on a separate, smaller UPS.

People who buy smaller UPS's thinking that just equates to less battery life are being retarded.
 
Then how do people like NickJames (read his reply) say that his worked when it went over the reported wattage? I doubt he would just make this stuff up. http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1038857735&postcount=2

There's also a newegg review of a guy who ran his entire system with dual 9800 GTXs in it. Each one is like 280w by itself under full load. Just the video cards alone are > 450w under load.

I'm not trying to argue either. Right now we have 2 conflicting answers.

Some people are saying it won't work when the draw is > 450w.
Other people are saying it will work for a shorter duration than the reported duration when the draw is > 450w.

I don't mind dropping $170 instead of $95 if it's guaranteed to not mess up during 1-2 second flickers. Does the cyberpower 1500va version have that "smart" technology but as a different name, or would it specifically say SmartUPS if it did? It says it's "intelligent" heh, is that the same thing? The exact name is: CyberPower Intelligent LCD Series GreenPower UPS CP1500AVRLCD 1500VA 900W 8 Outlets UPS
 
ShoeLace said:
Then how do people like NickJames (read his reply) say that his worked when it went over the reported wattage? I doubt he would just make this stuff up. http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1038857735&postcount=2

There's also a newegg review of a guy who ran his entire system with dual 9800 GTXs in it. Each one is like 280w by itself under full load. Just the video cards alone are > 450w under load.

I'm not trying to argue either. Right now we have 2 conflicting answers.

Some people are saying it won't work when the draw is > 450w.
Other people are saying it will work for a shorter duration than the reported duration when the draw is > 450w.

I don't mind dropping $170 instead of $95 if it's guaranteed to not mess up during 1-2 second flickers. Does the cyberpower 1500va version have that "smart" technology but as a different name, or would it specifically say SmartUPS if it did? It says it's "intelligent" heh, is that the same thing? The exact name is: CyberPower Intelligent LCD Series GreenPower UPS CP1500AVRLCD 1500VA 900W 8 Outlets UPS
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There could be variances in the way a given model is designed. Some may simply pass through electrical power from the wall outlet. It may be a matter of complexity. Mine is a UPS with a built in power usage meter and all kinds of crap. Those simple units may not have all the same protection built into them.

Also, people are rarely aware of their actual or exact power needs. 9800GTX's do not pull 280watts of power by themselves. That's max TDP which isn't to be confused with real world power usage. You can probably shave 30 watts or so off of that per card easily. Possibly more. And again the UPS model in question may not be very sophisticated and may just let you do that. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me even if that is the case given that the UPS is totally inadequate

A QX9770 with two 8800GTX's (which are older versions of the 9800GTX actually) used only about 512watts and only under maximum load. The motherboard and CPU were known power hogs. I'd wager that the person you mentioned above is actually under the 450watt mark more often than they think.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2008/02/03/intel_skulltrail_preview/7

Not the same system, but you get the idea. If anything, the configurations there should use more power than the ones you mentioned. All I'm saying is that my experience with two different 1500VA UPSes didn't work at all if the power draw exceeded 950watts even if they weren't on battery power. I had a smaller 450watt unit that suffered the same problem. One of the 1500VA units was an APC as was the 450watt unit. The other 1500VA UPS was a Cyberpower.
 
The 280w was based off this chart:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2555/2

I'm not sure how they are monitoring it. It's 264w too, not 280w oops. There were other benchmarks from other sites who reported 230w or so while gaming, but I guess the load on games is lower than what anandtech used?

How is your system pulling 750w without including monitors? Do the newer CPUs really draw that much more power. Your single 7970+newer CPU is using way more than dual 8800 GTXs?
 
I guess long story short, is this a reasonable assessment:

Machine specs:
Ivy bridge-era, no SLI, modern GPU (560+), 2 LCDs, router/modem, standard USB devices

In the $95 range:
450w UPS may work but you're really taking a straight up gamble here. Chances are it won't work but it might. The battery will definitely be a problem in the near'ish future.

In the $125 range:
600w UPS should work but it's cutting it close, this is basically the point where you might want to throw down an extra $30-40ish for 33% more capacity just to give you some room to breathe and know you'll be ok for most upgrades.

In the $165 range:
900w UPS will work and give you some breathing room.

And in the $165ish range, I guess this is the best bet if you were going to try to buy something new?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102048

I'm not 100% against refurbs, but I dunno. I've gotten burnt in the past with them (not the site, just refurbs in general).
 
ShoeLace said:
The 280w was based off this chart:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2555/2

I'm not sure how they are monitoring it. It's 264w too, not 280w oops. There were other benchmarks from other sites who reported 230w or so while gaming, but I guess the load on games is lower than what anandtech used?

How is your system pulling 750w without including monitors? Do the newer CPUs really draw that much more power. Your single 7970+newer CPU is using way more than dual 8800 GTXs?
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Load varies by game. In one configuration my UPS could handle most games excluding Crysis which then caused my power usage to skyrocket. when I had 3 GTX 280's Crysis was the difference between 920-950 watts and 1120-1150watts. Slight wattage increase really, but you have to multiply it times 3. Also, it was a bit more CPU demanding than most other games so you had to account for that. Testing methodology also varies. I measure at the wall, with the system only (no monitor) and a Kilo-Watt device. My UPS also has something built in just like it and they put out almost the same numbers. Accuracy for these devices varies quite a bit as well. Some are off by 20 watts or more.
 
Dan_D said:
Load varies by game. In one configuration my UPS could handle most games excluding Crysis which then caused my power usage to skyrocket. when I had 3 GTX 280's Crysis was the difference between 920-950 watts and 1120-1150watts. Slight wattage increase really, but you have to multiply it times 3. Also, it was a bit more CPU demanding than most other games so you had to account for that. Testing methodology also varies. I measure at the wall, with the system only (no monitor) and a Kilo-Watt device. My UPS also has something built in just like it and they put out almost the same numbers. Accuracy for these devices varies quite a bit as well. Some are off by 20 watts or more.
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Would it be reasonably safe to say that a 900w UPS will happily handle this under high load:

2500k
Some motherboard with onboard video/NIC
2x 4gb sticks of ram
1x GTX 570ish video card
1x hd + 1x dvd-rw
USB keyboard/mouse/microphone
2x 1080p 24" monitors (I'm willing to lose 1-2 minutes for the 2nd monitor)
router + modem

...but a 600w UPS will be very very close under high load, and probably pushing your luck?

Also was your 750w draw with the one 7970 or 3x 280s for everything but crysis?
 
ShoeLace said:
Would it be reasonably safe to say that a 900w UPS will happily handle this under high load:

2500k
Some motherboard with onboard video/NIC
2x 4gb sticks of ram
1x GTX 570ish video card
1x hd + 1x dvd-rw
USB keyboard/mouse/microphone
2x 1080p 24" monitors (I'm willing to lose 1-2 minutes for the 2nd monitor)
router + modem

...but a 600w UPS will be very very close under high load, and probably pushing your luck?

Also was your 750w draw with the one 7970 or 3x 280s for everything but crysis?
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750 watts is with my current configuration last time I checked. I believe that does include the one monitor as well. It was my Skulltrail rig with dual overclocked QX9775's @4.0GHz and 3 GTX 280 OC's, 4 Raptors in RAID0 and two larger drives in RAID 1 for storage that reached 900-950 watts. That same system with dual Radeon HD 4870x2's reached 1150watts under full load. In any case I think a 1500VA UPS that outputs about 900-950watts would be plenty for your needs. 600watts is borderline with all the extra equipment.
 
Dan_D said:
I've got an older version of that same UPS. I've been using it for at least a couple of years now. Works great.
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It doesn't seem to have that "smart" stuff though, has it worked during an outage without losing power to the devices hooked up?

They have "smart" enabled versions but it's $260+ for the 1500/900 version (out of my price range).

Also, do you have a standard surge protector in front of the UPS? I've been reading that this is bad practice, but also CyberPower says they won't warranty the UPS if it breaks while stopping a surge. I feel a surge is fairly common (I've had 2x surge protectors blow up in the last 18 months), so having to replace this $160 UPS every time a surge happens seems really lame.
 
ShoeLace said:
It doesn't seem to have that "smart" stuff though, has it worked during an outage without losing power to the devices hooked up?

They have "smart" enabled versions but it's $260+ for the 1500/900 version (out of my price range).

Also, do you have a standard surge protector in front of the UPS? I've been reading that this is bad practice, but also CyberPower says they won't warranty the UPS if it breaks while stopping a surge. I feel a surge is fairly common (I've had 2x surge protectors blow up in the last 18 months), so having to replace this $160 UPS every time a surge happens seems really lame.
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I do not. Mine is hooked directly to the wall. And yeah, I've lost power plenty of times. Damned near every time it rains I lose power for a few seconds to a few minutes. I've never had issues with the UPS. Where I live power outages are pretty common place.
 
Yeah me too. Rain and hot weather bothers my power a lot.

I really wonder now what the implications are for putting a surge protector in front of it. Going to Google that I think.
 
Not all surges are equal. If lightning were to hit your line directly, for example, it wouldn't matter what protection you had in place. Any gear connected to that line would be done for, surge protector, UPS, or not.

Surges due to voltage spikes, most grid issues, and malfunctioning equipment along a shared circuit, however, are more common and generally what you'd seek to protect against. These sorts of surges shouldn't damage the UPS.

I wouldn't put anything between the UPS and the wall. Some less expensive surge protectors may potentially cause the UPS to detect dirty power, where the UPS may constantly charge and drain from its battery (in an effort to clean said power) rather than switching to the battery only during events.

The unit you linked from Newegg is a fine UPS. The "smart" label, applied towards APC UPS units, refers to software which instructs connected computers to shutdown in the case of a power failure. Cyberpower has its own version of the "smart" software. It's labeled differently, but it's still there. (Essentially, you would connect the UPS to your PC via a USB cable and install the UPS management software.)

You shouldn't need to spend $260, even for the current model (which I would suggest getting as it emulates a sine wave on the output). That price is MSRP. Also, do not restrict yourself to Newegg as they are not always the cheapest price around. The 1500VA unit is on Amazon currently for right around $200, but it looks to be on its way back down.

Camelcamelcamel is a good resource here:
http://camelcamelcamel.com/CyberPower-CP1500PFCLCD-Compatible-1500VA-Tower/product/B00429N19W

The 1350VA unit is even cheaper, too.

EDIT: Both the Cyberpower and APC UPSs have surge protection. So do not think that you must purchase surge protection separately. Also, I should clarify that so long as you are not overloading the circuit that the UPS is on, putting a good surge protector before the UPS should not harm things, and under some rare instances the surge protector may take the brunt of a surge which may have otherwise damaged the UPS. I would just warn against buying a $10 strip with surge protection and plugging the UPS into that, as those strips have tripped UPSs into battery mode in the past for me.
 
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Yeah, that's the thing though.

I think my surge protector was like $25, it has an LED to let me know if it's working or not. It broke in the past after a big storm and bought a new one. This might happen like once a year and $25 isn't too bad because the alternative is potentially losing a few hundred + all my data on my computer.

The one I'm using is:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842121010

The problem with the UPS' surge protector is that if it fries because it did its job, then now you have to buy a new $170+ UPS. That is why I was looking into putting the surge protector before the UPS as long as it did no real harm.

Also the "smart" stuff was in reference to this post:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1038858163&postcount=20

It seemed to be something more than just software.

Edit:
That camelcamelcamel site is pretty neat.
 
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Most good UPS units will have a resettable breaker or a way for you to replace the fuse(s). These are what (hopefully) get tripped during a surge. So for the most part they are easily recoverable after a surge. Sometimes, however, the surge is just too great and it overwhelms the circuitry, be it in a surge protector or UPS.

You are always hoping that a strong surge will kill cheap devices far up the chain rather than getting all the way down to the stuff you really care about. So I understand you wanting surge protection before the UPS, even if it is for an edge case.

Imagine yourself at a beach building up several different walls of sand parallel to the water. A small wave may simply wash up against the first wall with minimal damage. A medium wave may destroy the first wall of sand, but be stopped by the second wall. A large wave, however, is still capable of washing away all of your efforts, no matter how many walls you build.

You can't protect yourself 100% no matter what efforts you employ.

Again, the problem with surge protectors before the UPS is that some combinations will cause the UPS to register the surge protector's output as "dirty" and go into battery mode to compensate. The only way to know is to give it a try. Just make sure that the surge protector is of good quality and rated to handle 15 amps.

The one you linked should work fine, but the only way to be sure is to try it.

Also, the thread you linked is talking about online UPSs. This is a feature separate from "smart" software. Devices attached to an online UPS always draw from battery power, and the UPS is thus constantly recharging its batteries. In this way, they offer the most protection and the cleanest power, but they are loud and relatively expensive to run. For the most part, these are server class units, and not designed for home use.

Using a switching UPS, however, does not mean that your computer will shutdown as soon as it switches into battery mode. The power may not be as clean before and during the transition to battery power as it would be in an online UPS, but the switch happens very quickly and capacitors within the UPS or your power supply will be able to compensate without the computer shutting down.

EDIT: Think of it as turbulence during a plane flight. You'll notice it, but you won't be falling out of the sky.
 
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TESLA said:
Most good UPS units will have a resettable breaker or a way for you to replace the fuse(s). These are what (hopefully) get tripped during a surge. So for the most part they are easily recoverable after a surge. Sometimes, however, the surge is just too great and it overwhelms the circuitry, be it in a surge protector or UPS.

You are always hoping that a strong surge will kill cheap devices far up the chain rather than getting all the way down to the stuff you really care about. So I understand you wanting surge protection before the UPS, even if it is for an edge case.

Imagine yourself at a beach building up several different walls of sand parallel to the water. A small wave may simply wash up against the first wall with minimal damage. A medium wave may destroy the first wall of sand, but be stopped by the second wall. A large wave, however, is still capable of washing away all of your efforts, no matter how many walls you build.

You can't protect yourself 100% no matter what efforts you employ.

Again, the problem with surge protectors before the UPS is that some combinations will cause the UPS to register the surge protector's output as "dirty" and go into battery mode to compensate. The only way to know is to give it a try. Just make sure that the surge protector is of good quality and rated to handle 15 amps.

The one you linked should work fine, but the only way to be sure is to try it.

Also, the thread you linked is talking about online UPSs. This is a feature separate from "smart" software. Devices attached to an online UPS always draw from battery power, and the UPS is thus constantly recharging its batteries. In this way, they offer the most protection and the cleanest power, but they are loud and relatively expensive to run. For the most part, these are server class units, and not designed for home use.

Using a switching UPS, however, does not mean that your computer will shutdown as soon as it switches into battery mode. The power may not be as clean before and during the transition to battery power as it would be in an online UPS, but the switch happens very quickly and capacitors within the UPS or your power supply will be able to compensate without the computer shutting down.
Click to expand...

You beat me to it.
 
This info about the computer turning off during a brown out or something similar really sucks.

Example, in this thread:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1699565

A dude's computer still turned off and he thinks it might be because the UPS he was using doesn't support pure sine waves. The $200+ CyberPower seems to but the $165 model does not.

Would the UPS I linked earlier (the $165 one from CyberPower) give interrupted power during a brown out too? It seems like it's 100% useless if it can't supply proper battery power during a brown out. If the computer/devices lose power during that, what the heck is the point of even having one? I hope I just didn't order a 25 pound $165 paper weight.

Edit:
Brown outs are just as common here too. I've had my clocks not reset but my computer and other large draw devices instantly turn off/on.
 
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