they are nicely burned in now, and I have been loving them for most of the music I am listening to currently.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
HOT Sennheiser HD650 $319
- Thread starter Kueller
- Start date
they are nicely burned in now, and I have been loving them for most of the music I am listening to currently.
Bone_Enterprise
Enter in the Rear
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2006
- Messages
- 4,423
Yeah I would need to outsource that to someone for the soldering, will defiantly keep that in mind and may get that project rolling first of the year.
drklu
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2013
- Messages
- 2,894
Hell yeah, my plans exactly. I hope to pair the Asgard II with something like these A5+'s.
Should make a decent setup, unless someone has better suggestions for powered speakers (or passive w/ an amp).
An observations about these headphones (and I own the 650, 600 and 580 - three very closely related headphones) - they are not the best gaming headphones (for some genres) for a few reasons:
- The soundstage and frequency response is not right for FPS. It's actually harder to detect where people are around you in FPS online games like CS:GO and COD. If you don't play these game types, disregard this point. Also the upper bass bump means it tends to overpower other (mid) sounds like people talking
- They require a lot of juice to sound effortless and fast - ideally a balanced amp. Having heard these from my amp, I am loath to plug them straight into my PC, as it makes them more muddy and slow sounding
- They are heavy and grip like a vice (I do have a reasonably large head). There are some fixes - leave them stretched out over a series of books, but this may surprise some.
For music, and run from a decent amp, they sound great. I have owned my 580s for over a decade, and the 650s close to it. The cables are swappable / replaceable, and the pads are comfortable and replaceable too (once you break them in from their iron grip). Hope new owners enjoy these.
- The soundstage and frequency response is not right for FPS. It's actually harder to detect where people are around you in FPS online games like CS:GO and COD. If you don't play these game types, disregard this point. Also the upper bass bump means it tends to overpower other (mid) sounds like people talking
- They require a lot of juice to sound effortless and fast - ideally a balanced amp. Having heard these from my amp, I am loath to plug them straight into my PC, as it makes them more muddy and slow sounding
- They are heavy and grip like a vice (I do have a reasonably large head). There are some fixes - leave them stretched out over a series of books, but this may surprise some.
For music, and run from a decent amp, they sound great. I have owned my 580s for over a decade, and the 650s close to it. The cables are swappable / replaceable, and the pads are comfortable and replaceable too (once you break them in from their iron grip). Hope new owners enjoy these.
What?! Heavy? You can't possibly be talking about the same HD650's I'm wearing right now. I got them out of the box and my first thought was "Wow, these feel cheap" because they were noticeably lighter than the HD558's I had been using (which were not exactly heavy headphones themselves). Compared to the HE-400's I've been A/B'ing the last few days the HD650's are positively featherweight. Maybe you have an older model?
As for the grip/clamp force...yes, they do have quite a bit of grip from the factory. I tried stretching them out for a day when I got them, it achieved nothing.
What did work was extending the metal slides fully and applying a firm flexing force to the metal slide piece only, thumbs in the middle, index fingers supporting the ends of the metal slide piece attaching to the headband and earpiece. Flex until comfortable, but try to avoid placing stress on the plastic headband or earpiece components as they can crack. Works like a charm. I would actually advise against stretching them out over a bunch of books or the like because it places stress on the plastic rather than on the spring steel slides.
A good point about a way to stretch them. I used the book method with no ill effects, but looking at them I think your point is valid.
Regarding weight, well I guess it's relative. I don't own 558s but I'm going to guess they are also full size headphones. Compared to Grados, Beyerdynamics and Audio Technicas, the 650s feel 'heavy on the head' to me. I'm going to guess that some of this is the clamping force and the older style foam on the headband. They are much lighter than the LCD-2 on the other hand. For people coming from other full-sized headphones, there's nothing to be worried about. If you have portable 'phones though - and it sounded like several people here would be getting these as their first full-sized headphones - this is a big jump in weight (and quality!) if you plan to use them for gaming. When I try gaming with the 650s, I find them 'heavy' after an extended session - just my $0.02.
Hey, in case anyone is still looking for an amplifier for these, get the O2 Objective Amplifier, (or build one) and don't look back. It's cheap, and it sounds good, because it was properly designed by a real electrical engineer. This is proven by numerous measurements taken by reference grade audio analyzers that cost more than your car. Don't fall for the bullshit, gentlemen. Buy by the numbers.
Also, don't buy third party cables. They don't sound any different, and if you think any different from personal experience, it is because of certain psychoacoustic properties in your auditory cortex, rather than any real change in delivered sound quality.
Also, don't buy third party cables. They don't sound any different, and if you think any different from personal experience, it is because of certain psychoacoustic properties in your auditory cortex, rather than any real change in delivered sound quality.
Porter_
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2007
- Messages
- 8,467
NwAvGuy where are you 
drklu
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2013
- Messages
- 2,894
That looks awesome, do these have pass through for some powered monitors ?
Lateralus
More [H]uman than Human
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2004
- Messages
- 18,503
I found a pair of these for $350 NIB from someone who got in on the deal and isn't trying to make a killing...seriously tempted! Ugh.
bmwphysics
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2009
- Messages
- 1,906
I picked up 3 from this sale, even got the 10% off so got them for $244 each. Quite the steal if I do say so myself.
Bone_Enterprise
Enter in the Rear
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2006
- Messages
- 4,423
And what exactly is defined as the "bullshit" you speak of?
Since it was posted I was thinking of getting the Bottlehead Crack, how does this compare over that?
Get the Bottlehead Crack with Speedball upgrade instead. 100x better.
drklu
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2013
- Messages
- 2,894
Why is it better? What would be the better option for my HD650's for gaming?
Last edited:
I ordered a JDSLabs O2 for $100 off ebay. An assembled bottlehead crack/speedball combo runs $500+, pretty significant price disparity there.
dblinkhorn
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2010
- Messages
- 100
That's the only amp you'll need. Most amps that are more expensive are actually a downgrade if actual fidelity to the source is your goal. As the saying goes, the perfect amp is a wire with gain, and the O2 is the closest you'll get for headphone applications under $1000.
Overpriced gear that actually performs worse than their much less expensive counterparts. This is typically due to a focus on clever marketing versus measured performance, making impossible scientific claims about their product, etc. The audiophile world is unbelievably full of nonsense, buyer beware.
Last edited:
Ah, I apologize if I was a bit vague. The specific bullshit I refer to is the pseudoscientific misinformation frequently spread throughout the audiophile community by boutique audio equipment manufacturers and unwitting audio enthusiasts, alike.
Specific examples of what I'm referring to include, but are not limited to:
The claim that RF-grade (or, otherwise very high-grade) op-amps are preferred for audio applications
The claim that virtual ground circuits offer better performance than a real ground circuit
The claim that sound, and even power carried over silver, or other exotic cabling can improve performance in a given audio setup
The claim that SACD, Audio DVD, and other exotic recording mediums can reproduce a perceptibly higher-quality reproduction of a given recording than a standard compact disc
Regarding the Bottlehead Crack, I have not seen any measurements taken of its output, and therefore, I cannot comment on it. That being said, I can hardly recommend an amp that costs four times as much as an O2, when the O2 can power damn near any set of headphones to ear-splitting levels at 0.002% THD. Now, if you like the kind of distortion that a tube gives off, there's nothing wrong with that, but I still couldn't see myself recommending another to purchase one. Have you ever compared a vacuum tube amplifier to a good transistorized amplifier?
drklu
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2013
- Messages
- 2,894
Do you have a link for the O2 for $100?
edit: Lowest I'm seeing listed is this http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDS-Labs-OBJECTIVE-2-Headphone-Amplifier-AC-adapter-BRAND-NEW-/121229070060?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c39d0ceec
I offered him $100 and he came back with a counter offer of $131.50. Was the one you purchased used ? The dealer said that $100 is below cost.
Last edited:
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Porter_
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2007
- Messages
- 8,467
razordog is an established audio website (http://www.razordogaudio.com/), but you can just as easily order directly from JDS for close to the same price. JDS Labs O2 and AC Adapter. seems like razordog is throwing in the AC adapter for free in that ebay listing. also the O2 is always popping up for sale used on head-fi for $115-ish.
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
drklu
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2013
- Messages
- 2,894
Thanks for the info Porter, do you by chance know if this unit has pass through connections for some studio monitors ?
Porter_
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2007
- Messages
- 8,467
nope no pass through. what you see on the front of the JDS Labs O2 is all the connections there are. nothing on the back.
drklu
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2013
- Messages
- 2,894
Gotcha, I may have to look else where then. I'm just trying to figure out how to connect my pc > amp > headphones/speakers. Something with a optical in would be nice since a lot of the new mobo's have it. Just trying to figure out the best way to connect everything and since this is my first go around with higher end pc audio it's a lot to take in.
Edit: as of right now the only limiting factors I have are the HD 650's and the ITX format motherboard. I'm building a new pc in a Ncase M1 enclosure so I will not have an extra pci slot for a sound card. I would rather bypass on-board audio all together so I need a standalone solution (amp/dac?). Any recommendations would be appreciated within $250 max.
Last edited:
Bone_Enterprise
Enter in the Rear
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2006
- Messages
- 4,423
The only "looking" I have been doing is when the Vali was mentioned earlier, then I saw the Valhalla on their site, then someone mentioned the Bottlehead Crack.
The primary reason I am not considering the JDS Labs Objective 2 is the fact of the 3.5mm input/output for the cans and the source instead of 6.35mm for both or even just RCA for the source, I don't want to have to keep up with an adapter for my cans just so I can use the amp.
dblinkhorn
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2010
- Messages
- 100
It's a fantastic amp and while I agree that only having a 1/8" jack is a downside, I think the intrinsic quality of the amp outweighs this inconvenience. NwAvGuy, who developed the O2, was going to release a larger version which would have included a 1/4" jack, but he bowed out of the audio world owing to the nonstop abuse he was getting for ruffling feathers (basically exposing how consumers are getting ripped off).
bmwphysics
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2009
- Messages
- 1,906
OH GOD ALMIGHTY!!!
This FiiO AMP makes these headphones 10x better, I didn;t think it would do much to be honest but holy ball kicker! My ears are in heaven!
If anyone else got in on this deal, do yourself a favor and get an amp of some sort, you might not think it, but YOU NEED IT.
Happy Listening folks!
This FiiO AMP makes these headphones 10x better, I didn;t think it would do much to be honest but holy ball kicker! My ears are in heaven!
If anyone else got in on this deal, do yourself a favor and get an amp of some sort, you might not think it, but YOU NEED IT.
Happy Listening folks!
You cannot have an amp that has an optical in (unless it is also a DAC, which most are not).
An optical cable is only capable of digital signal. You need a DAC at some point to switch from digital to analog, THEN you can amplify the signal.
If you want optical out of the computer, that is fine, you just need to get a DAC as well (one that accepts optical). You can also go with USB DACs.
Schiit Modi is a common DAC for $99. If you are going with the O2 amp, JDSlabs also has a DAC called the ODAC.
(you do not need to stick with the same vendors, you can pair any DAC with any amp, you just need to make sure they have the right inputs for you. For instance the Schiit Modi only takes USB, and does not handle optical.)
Also, you do not have to have a stand alone DAC. I personally use a Creative Titanium HD sound card, and use RCA cables from the card to my amp.
I almost got an O2 amp a couple years ago.
I ended up going in a different direction because of the layout of the device. Why it was designed to have all the inputs and outputs in the front, I do not know. The inputs should be in the back, and the output in the front, like any other amp designed to be on the desktop.
Yes, this thread should probably be moved to the deal discussion forum.
Used.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/O2-Headphone-Amplifier-with-Power-Supply-JDS-Labs-/251392049098
Used.
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Porter_
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2007
- Messages
- 8,467
you might already know this but the O2 was designed with DIY'ers in mind. having all the connections on one side reduces the cost since you only need one custom plate (front side), the back plate is an off the shelf blank plate. NwAvGuy was working on the ODA which was oriented like other amps with inputs on the back. Like dblinkhorn said he disappeared before it was completed.
Check out the hifimeDIY Sabre U2 Asynchronous DAC. $60 goes a long way when you're not paying someone a 1000% markup to write some marketing fantasy story about the product.
http://us.hifimediy.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=61
OH GOD ALMIGHTY!!!
This FiiO AMP makes these headphones 10x better, I didn;t think it would do much to be honest but holy ball kicker! My ears are in heaven!
If anyone else got in on this deal, do yourself a favor and get an amp of some sort, you might not think it, but YOU NEED IT.
Happy Listening folks!
Def. sounds better, but you can def. tell there's a LOT more these 650s can offer
I got the DAC/AMP from FiiO so I could use the 650s a bit "mobile".
I`m thinking of a Lyr down the road --> http://schiit.com/products/lyr
For home / desk / tv listening
drklu
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2013
- Messages
- 2,894
After all the input (which helped a ton thanks all!) I think I'm going to go with the Schiit Asgard 2 amp with the Modi Dac. This setup will allow me to hook my future bookshelf speakers through the Asgard and not have to worry about shitty onboard audio. Allthough it will set me back $350
bmwphysics
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2009
- Messages
- 1,906
Def. sounds better, but you can def. tell there's a LOT more these 650s can offer
I got the DAC/AMP from FiiO so I could use the 650s a bit "mobile".
I`m thinking of a Lyr down the road --> http://schiit.com/products/lyr
For home / desk / tv listening
MMM tasty!
Porter_
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2007
- Messages
- 8,467
After all the input (which helped a ton thanks all!) I think I'm going to go with the Schiit Asgard 2 amp with the Modi Dac. This setup will allow me to hook my future bookshelf speakers through the Asgard and not have to worry about shitty onboard audio. Allthough it will set me back $350
you might not care but the two are significantly different in size. it's just something to consider from an aesthetics standpoint.
That makes sense from a cost standpoint. But, tbh, the amp looks like it was designed to be more of a portable amp. It looks like it was designed with plugging in an iPhone/iPod in mind. This would actually make sense with having all the ports on the front. It also makes sense why the sole input is a 3.5mm jack, instead of RCAs.
For an always there desktop amp though, it is kind of a pain having adapters and your cables reach around the front.
The O2 is a nice little amp (a friend of mine has one actually). I just wish he did not disappear, as I would have liked to see one that is a little more powerful (especially with higher impedance headphones), and had RCA inputs in the back.
0V3RC10CK3D
Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2005
- Messages
- 751
After all the input (which helped a ton thanks all!) I think I'm going to go with the Schiit Asgard 2 amp with the Modi Dac. This setup will allow me to hook my future bookshelf speakers through the Asgard and not have to worry about shitty onboard audio. Allthough it will set me back $350
Good Choice. I got the Modi Dac last week to go with my Gilmore Lite AMP / DPS. Really Great. Originally i had gone out of the RCA's on a Soundblaster Titanium HD but there was way too much static and noise put on the line from having the soundcard inside the computer.